View Full Version : HV20 vs DVX100
StayNuts
04-24-2007, 05:51 PM
Does anyone the differences between the DVX100 and the new HV20... talk about the image quality, not about XLR connectors, etc... in that field is the DVX100 absolute the winner I suppose... saw some footage around here and was really impressed about the quality, very clear & sharp... I am on the point of making a decision of which cam I gonna buy ( wednesday or thursday )...
very curious also to the low lighting performances... :)
thx for the help
Ill Eagle
04-25-2007, 01:27 AM
Your budget should pretty much answer the question.......
Though even if not, saving $1500 sure sounds nice on the pockets.......
Solomon Chase
04-27-2007, 09:58 AM
I "downgraded" from DVX100a to HV20. It has actually been an upgrade because the HV20 image quality is just amazing. Yes, a little short on manual controls but I've managed fine.
The HV20 cmos latitude is very good.
DVX100a is a little better in lowlight.
Here's some grabs from my HV20:
http://solomonchase.com/HV20/
I used the extra money saved buying the HV20 on stuff that matters, like lighting equipment, tripod, etc.
if the price drops alittle more , rebate or I find a good used one,,,I'm going DVX100.
Emanuel
05-02-2007, 07:50 AM
I "downgraded" from DVX100a to HV20. It has actually been an upgrade because the HV20 image quality is just amazing. Yes, a little short on manual controls but I've managed fine.
The HV20 cmos latitude is very good.
DVX100a is a little better in lowlight.
Here's some grabs from my HV20:
http://solomonchase.com/HV20/
I used the extra money saved buying the HV20 on stuff that matters, like lighting equipment, tripod, etc.Great stuff. The picture quality of this camera is really very interesting.
GlimmerGhost
05-02-2007, 10:44 AM
IMO the image quality is better on the HV20, maybe i got a faulty cam that works way too good, but so far as i can tell on the Big Screen TV the HV20 footage jumps out at you, the colors are more vibrant and looks clear. On the other side the DVX, forgetting as you specified about the prof. stuff, didnt look as good to me on the same tv and others. The picture when stretched like that seemed a little dull. Just my 2 cents.
Artscroll
05-02-2007, 09:52 PM
I would agree with Glimmer, however the color of the 3 CCD and low light capability as well as all the pro-controls on the DVX are worth their weight in gold. I'm selling mine right now and I have an HV20 but I will miss THOSE capabilities of the DVX heartfeltly.
ScottMcLeod
05-03-2007, 06:07 PM
So wait... the DVX is still a better camera in low light than the HV20?
I've been hearing conflicting results from various tests and reviews... has anyone owned both?
Artscroll
05-03-2007, 09:57 PM
Scott, I've owned both and I just sold my DVX. There are things I will certainly miss about the 100B. I've shot things indoors with the HV20 and DVX100B and I do prefer the 100B indoors in low light conditions. Plus there is something about the wonderful color the Panny puts out. It is not to be equaled in my opinion. However, I was willing to let that all go for affordable 24p HD. If you are careful dialing down exposure in indoor low light conditions (to rid yourself of the HV20's auto gain), then you will have an acceptable image with the HV20 (compared to the DVX though it is a little dark and washed out color). In my opinion the 100B shines in those moments and still retains A LOT of color and hardly any grain. I am a firm believer in the low light capabilities of the 100B. Now, on the contrary, correctly exposed outdoor footage with the HV20 blows the pants off the DVX for resolution and not quite the Panny colors but close for a CMOS vs. 3 CCD :)
Barry_Green
05-03-2007, 10:44 PM
So wait... the DVX is still a better camera in low light than the HV20?
Of course. All the SD cameras are better low-light performers than the new crop of HD camcorders, and the DVX is one of the best low-light performers out there.
But here are two pictures, so you can judge yourself. Taken at the same location, same lighting, same basic instant in time, using the same settings (0dB of gain, 1/48 shutter, cine mode, 24p; the HV20 image was captured using in-camera downconversion to DV and the DVX image was shot in Squeeze mode, and they were composited in Vegas).
http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/31/1178253614.jpg
Then, I also shot the same shot in 60i. Again, 0dB and 1/60th shutter in 60i; HV20 was in CINE mode with the exposure locked at 0dB & 1/60th, DVX was in manual mode, both had wide-open iris and full wide angle, using Cine-V gamma.
http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/31/1178253762.jpg
Jason Ramsey
05-03-2007, 10:55 PM
You've got a freakin' arcade game? Punk.
Artscroll
05-04-2007, 12:42 AM
Barry was that the stock DVX, A or B? Thanks for posting the comparison.
john818
05-04-2007, 12:56 AM
ok wait,you could control the gain,how did you make the hv20s gain lock at low light.
Barry_Green
05-04-2007, 12:57 AM
Sorry, should have posted that info in the original post! That was a 100B.
Barry_Green
05-04-2007, 12:59 AM
ok wait,you could control the gain,how did you make the hv20s gain lock at low light.
Read the big ol' thread called "HV20 Gain"; we went through and dissected how to lock the exposure at 0dB and 1/48th.
The easiest way to do it is to zoom out to full wide angle and completely block the lens so it's the equivalent of having the lens capped. This will force the HV20 to open up the iris to the maximum and put the gain up at max (+27dB). Then you press the joystick to bring up the EXP function, and you lock the exposure at -11. When you're shooting 24P in CINE exposure mode, the exposure locked at -11 means 0dB of gain at 1/48 shutter. It's different in 60i though; you do the same process but you set the EXP to -7 for 60i; that gives you 1/60th at 0dB.
Emanuel
05-04-2007, 01:42 AM
Read the big ol' thread called "HV20 Gain"; we went through and dissected how to lock the exposure at 0dB and 1/48th.We? You.
That is the best HV20 gain info we can get crossing all over the web. Stick it!
[EDIT]
Canon would win -- and the Canon users too, having this guru posting abroad Pana. Fortunately, he's here/also/always helping other users to handle and shoot with their new toys.
In and on behalf of this other-cameras-sub-forum community,
:dankk2:
john818
05-04-2007, 02:04 AM
YES! that was the only reason stoping me from the hv20,im getten it for sure.thanks a lot Barry
Fugitive
05-04-2007, 05:28 PM
So that issue is finally solved! Whoa, thanks :)
Barry_Green
05-04-2007, 05:59 PM
We? You.
That is the best HV20 gain info we can get crossing all over the web. Stick it!
Thanks, Emanuel. I've written it up as an article for posting in the Articles section so it stays permanent.
Patrick Bower
05-05-2007, 01:41 PM
I have a DVX100 original model, PAL, and I have just bought the HV20 (PAL). Here are some comparisons of frame grabs from Vegas. It was difficult to film the pink flower on the HV20. I had to reduce the brightness by about 8 to stop the highlights from blowing. I then used levels in Vegas to make the pictures brighter. I changed the file properties in Vegas to reduce the HV20 shots to DV resolution, and also to upscale the DVX100 to HDV. The DVX is set at 25p, cine gamma, but with scene file settings at 0. The HV20 in P mode.
The DVX 4x3 grabs were taken full frame. The DVX 12x9 grabs were from a different frame (taken zoomed further out, so that, after cropping, the flowers would be the same size). I don't have squeeze mode on my DVX, so these frames were cropped and stretched in Vegas.
I would rate the DVX picture in DV as better than the HV20 at 4x3 screen size, and comparable when cropped and stretched to 16x9.
In HDV I think the up rezzed DVX 4x3 picture is as good as the HV20, but the HV20 is better for the 12x9.
Patrick
Patrick Bower
05-06-2007, 02:46 AM
Apologies for the last post. There must have been something wrong with the HV20 footage. Obviously the HV20 is much better than the DVX100.
Here is a better comparison, actual size, cut from frame grabs from Vegas at 1920x1080 pixels.
Patrick
Indieguy101
05-08-2007, 02:16 AM
I truly hope to work in professional film and video production.
Does getting the Hv20 put me at a disadvantage?
Can I really shoot a professional music video or independent film with the HV20?
I wish to teach myself all I can about cameras. I am wondering if eventually going into a small budget set, will I be laughed at if I show up with an HV20? or does the Panasonic dvx100b or at Dvx100a get me the proper respect?
Does anyone see the HV20 actually being used on reality tv shows, Mtv and such networks, as I am aware that the Dvx 100a and/or 100B are sometimes used by these networks.
I am talking about small budget projects, not $10 million projects.
My bugdet is only about $1800.
Huy Vu
05-08-2007, 02:36 AM
I truly hope to work in professional film and video production.
Does getting the Hv20 put me at a disadvantage?
Can I really shoot a professional music video or independent film with the HV20?
I wish to teach myself all I can about cameras. I am wondering if eventually going into a small budget set, will I be laughed at if I show up with an HV20? or does the Panasonic dvx100b or at Dvx100a get me the proper respect?
Does anyone see the HV20 actually being used on reality tv shows, Mtv and such networks, as I am aware that the Dvx 100a and/or 100B are sometimes used by these networks.
I am talking about small budget projects, not $10 million projects.
My bugdet is only about $1800.
Do you plan to use the HV20 to learn or do work? It's a fine camera if you want to experiment and learn about filmmaking but if someone hires you and you show up with it don't be suprised if they look at you weird. It's sad, but it's true; people need to feel that they got their money's worth. Now obviously showing up with a DVX and delivering crap work won't get you respect either.
GlimmerGhost
05-08-2007, 03:31 AM
I'd say slap a Canon WD-H43 and a professional looking matte box or a Breavis and their line of matteBox, Follow focus and what not (total with camera is probably $2600) and try that on a set... then throw alot of B.S. at the client,
"Yea, did you know this is the first Camera of it's kind at it's level? It has 1080i and shoots 24p and photon phasers and has a self calibrating fluxcapacitor with a minimal el Nino effect on it's Sensor.... what? Oh no, it's a 1 chip camera but who needs three chips when this sucker senses everything from Light to Maximus Prime movement in the Decepticon range, did I mention it has remote keyless entry?"
Then see if you dont get some friggin R-E-S-P-E-C-T on a set.
You can always do small projects with it. You can make a low budget movie with anything.
But if Ford Motor Company ask you to do a national spot, don't show up with the HV20 unless they ask you to bring one.
I think times are changing. To make a movie you don't need a $100,000 camera or a movie studio backing you. Make a film and self promote it on the internet for free via YouTube , MySpace, etc. It will get you started and you never know what might happen.
My advice is not to spend to much the first time. You see to many people selling their cameras with only one hour on them. "For sale, DVX100 with only 5 hours. I thought I was going to use it"
HV20 with a wide angle, good mic extra battery maybe around $1300
A new DVX100b stock $2650
Canon A1 after rebate $3250
Good luck it is a tough choice.
I'd say slap a Canon WD-H43 and a professional looking matte box or a Breavis and their line of matteBox, Follow focus and what not (total with camera is probably $2600) and try that on a set... then throw alot of B.S. at the client,
"Yea, did you know this is the first Camera of it's kind at it's level? It has 1080i and shoots 24p and photon phasers and has a self calibrating fluxcapacitor with a minimal el Nino effect on it's Sensor.... what? Oh no, it's a 1 chip camera but who needs three chips when this sucker senses everything from Light to Maximus Prime movement in the Decepticon range, did I mention it has remote keyless entry?"
Then see if you dont get some friggin R-E-S-P-E-C-T on a set.
tell them the throw out switch in the wobbly shaft are only bad on the PAL cameras.
Just incase they read internet forums!
24Peter
05-11-2007, 08:56 AM
Add me to the list of people who sold their DVX (original) after getting an HV20.
For me the killer camera right now would be a 2-3lb. version of the HV20 with a larger lens, full manual controls (zoom, focus rings) XLR inputs and a quieter body.
StayNuts
10-15-2008, 04:38 PM
just to update my first post, I got a DVX100B...
have it more then a year now and I really love my panny...
reason...
- full manual controls, especially the manual focus ring & iris control ring.. love it!
- 2 x XLR inputs with built-in phantom power :)
- the great low light performances
- the colors of a Panasonic, never liked a Canon for that reason! In photography I also prefer a Nikon, Leica or Hasselblad above each Canon...
- the DVX has a lens of 72mm and the HV20 43mm... how bigger the lens, how more light you can get into it... makes the shoot more brighter and benefits in the night...
- 24P
- 3 chips
- it don't has a built in camera, will use my nikon for that, or a hasselblad...
- it's a PANASONIC... and I got already a PANNY (SDX) :)
- the professional look, most customers are stupid and they only think that big camera's can do the job... a small camera is more seen as homevideo material... I own also a SDX and see the difference with them when I show my DVX and SDX...
- when I put my shotgun with a rycote on the camera, it still look like a camera with a microphone and not a microphone with somewhere a small lens...
- the weight of the camera, I am used to heavy shoulder camera's and I can't work with a sisi lightweight camera as the HV20... need volume to hold it and the Panny DVX has it...
- can use the footage of the SDX and DVX together without mayor differences...
me and equipment supplier tested both camera's out during a sunset on the beach... our conclusion was that the footage of the Panny gives a better color and need less post-processing during editing... if you love to film with manual controls, what I always do, then is the DVX absolute the winner... for me, nothing can beat to shoot the perfect footage in the field without any post-processing during editing... then I know that I do my job well... :)
just my 2 cents...
This is exactly the thread I was looking for. My friend says to wait for the Red camera (I can't remember which model) How does (will that) mix it up with these two? (I haven't looked for a thread about it just yet, will do now.) I think she said the model wasn't quite out yet, or... wait for the price to drop. I can't quite remember what she said.
vsansal
10-21-2008, 03:50 PM
This is exactly the thread I was looking for. My friend says to wait for the Red camera (I can't remember which model) How does (will that) mix it up with these two? (I haven't looked for a thread about it just yet, will do now.) I think she said the model wasn't quite out yet, or... wait for the price to drop. I can't quite remember what she said.
It is the RED Scarlet. I am guessing it will be at least a year till we can see one on the market.
Jason Ramsey
10-21-2008, 04:02 PM
Jim says their target for Scarlet right now is fully working models at NAB. Shipping shortly thereafter, and shipping in mass quantity by fall of next year.
Scarlet has completely changed though for those that don't already know. We're waiting for the new specs slated to be released "early November" over on Scarletuser (http://www.scarletuser.com) :)
Later,
Jason