HPX500 / 3000 and RED... what?

[arrestthisman]

Okay... I know everything has its place and these are for different apps, but I'm here to learn and I'm wondering what RED is going to do to panny's higher end line.

HPX500 looks awesome, but at 14k for the body that's pretty similar to 17,500 for the RED, right?

So who is the HPX500 for?

And same for the HPX3000, I think it's amazing. And looks to be WAY better than the F950, but who would take it over RED and why?

I guess it just doesn't make sense to be because if I woke up with a million bucks in the bank tomorrow, I'd have no clue why I wouldn't just go with the RED. But I love panasonic so much... how does a fanboy reconcile this?

[taormina]

'cause people that buy cameras for professional use...big people..like networks, news crews, big stuff.....will probably not buy en masse from a company like red.

So Fox goes to them and says "we need 1000 cameras" . Red can barely fill the orders they have for this decade. Big companies like to buy from big companies. Panny will always have an in.

I've talked to pros who don;t even know what the hell a red is much less an SI2K.

Reds and SIs are for filmmakers, and they won't sell nearly as well as Panny's stuff for more mundane usages such as ENG work.

[arrestthisman]

I had a feeling that was the case... Sad but true. Thanks tao.

I know the SI-2k looks sweet to me, although hydra is the sweetest.

I guess it's like the government. They'll pay 100,000 for a specialty GPS system that could be replicated for 2000$ with a laptop. But they just don't roll that way.

It also probably has to do with workflow.

P2 is easy.

Red to Redcode, LUT, CC, final out... That's really not ideal for ENG.

They want lateral aquisition.

Personally I think 4k for 90% or more projects is excessive.

2k with the best dynamic range and color available is ideal. (mmmmm hydra.)

- Alex

[ripupthehwy]

Another point is, from what I've read and seen at NAB about Red. It is being touted as a cinematography camera. Not at all what broadcasters are looking for anyway. This camera is overkill for tv.

[arrestthisman]

Overkill... James Bond? Kill James Bond? I'll do it!

Seriously though, that's a good point.

I wish I was at NAB. Next year I'm going. Nothing else to it, I'm going. Period!

[jake stutheit]

Yeah NAB sounds exciting. Kind of like comic-con for gearheads. Im jealous of everyone whos there.

[insanityfw]

When I first saw the camera up close it became even more apparent that it's not going to be the best for ENG type of work, but then after shuffling around NAB and looking at the size of the other pro cameras that are used for ENG, I'm not so sure.

Personally, I feel that the form factor of RED is much more geared towards cinematic work, but there will surely be plenty of people using it for ENG, etc.

Man, is it a gorgeous piece of work, up close.

[Erik Olson]

RED to the 500 is apples to oranges, IMO.

Firstly, you can purchase HPX packages complete with HD lens, 4x 8GB cards, viewfinder and batts for $21k (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home;jsessionid=GyTnc67GJM!-1111816752!1177079470251?ci=1&sb=ps&pn=1&sq=desc&InitialSearch=yes&O=RootPage.jsp&A=search&Q=*&bhs=t&shs=hpx500). The body (with 4 P2 slots) is $12.5k at B&H - hardly the low-price leader.

Unlike the capable and sexy RED ($17.5k body only, no power supply or nuthin'), the HPX500 is ready to record, on-board with full post-production support in-studio and in the field with accessories like mobile edit desk and hard-drive.

Also, you might not see as many HPX500s modified for cinema use. We're shopping two 500's for a reality series - which is where the vast majority of the units will end up... HD television acquisition.

It is what it is - an entry-level 2/3 form-factor camera that brings P2 further into the realm of broadcast television, where Sony has dominated with the F900 and now the XDCam350.

RED and the HPX simply don't work in the same market. That should be your first question: what is my intended market?

e

[arrestthisman]

Good point overland. RED will be awesome for cinema, but the panny line can really do both.

So I guess it comes down to: 1. do I need the most flexible workflow. 2. Do I need many formats for lateral aquisition 3. am I willing to sacrifice those things for optimum quality. 4. What quality do I really need?

if 4 = the best, and 3 = yes, go with red, if 1 and 2 sound like your game, go for panny.

Thanks for putting this in perspective guys.

[Also, si-2k seems like a compromise between both. quicker, lighter workflow, especially with the mini, but still suited for cinema.]

[HVXguy]

It's the workflow....
As much as I like the image quality of RED (I did see it),
your average jobs will never see 4K much less 2K. We are
just now making inroads to get clients to shoot HD.
On many of my jobs we have been editing on location
and delivering finished videos (web or VNR) before we wrap.
The corporate clients sometimes need that kind of turn.
You could not do that with RED. And all the TV guys I talked
with were aware of RED and said they might hire a RED
shooter here and there for promo work but that would be
about it. And if the station needed 20 cameras and accessories
next week or next month (as many did) it would take RED
quite a while to deliver.

[LighthouseMedia]

FCP will inlcude fully integrated Redcode Raw support just plug the Red Drive in via FW and edit directly off the drive. Don't believe me get it directly from Ted Shilowitz himself http://www.freshdv.com/2007/04/nab-video-podcast-red-digital-cinema-ted-schilowitz-interview.html