HV20 and A1 reproduce each other's tapes?

[rawfa]

I've read that the HV20's and the A1's progressive mode are different. That said, are they capable of reproducing each other's tapes?

[Barry_Green]

They are different, and yes they're fully intercompatible.

[rawfa]

Thanks, Barry. :thumbup:

[Emanuel]

But I thought the HV20 had 24f (60i version) or 25f (50i version) mode playback capability or am I wrong?

[Barry_Green]

It does, yes.

[Emanuel]

I stand corrected:

But I thought only the HV20 had 24f (60i version) or 25f (50i version) mode playback capability or am I wrong?

The same to the A1 playback capability on the HV20 progressive mode recording?

[AuditoryVisuals]

I stand corrected:

But I thought only the HV20 had 24f (60i version) or 25f (50i version) mode playback capability or am I wrong?

The same to the A1 playback capability on the HV20 progressive mode recording?

Sorry, I don't know exactly what you mean. But here's my reply:

The HV20, HV10, XL H1, XH G1 and XH A1 have 24f or 25f mode playback capability.

Pretty well every 1080i60 HDV compatatible device will playback the 24p from the HV20. It's HDV Type-2. So yes the XH A1 will playback 24p HV20 footage.

And in theory, the Sony HDR-HC7, HC5, HC3, HC1, FX1, FX7 and HVR-V1U and Z1U (or Canon HV10, XL H1, and XH G1 for that matter) will playback the 24p footage from the HV20. Just as Apple iMovie HD, Final Cut Express, Final Cut Pro (4.0+?) and Adobe Premiere Pro (1.5.1+) (Elements too?) and Windows Movie Maker 6. Pinnacle, Edius. The modern versions of all the major NLE's will edit the HDV standard of 1080i60 which is what the HV20 records 24p within. So the 24p can be played back in any camera that records 1080i60 HDV. Does that answer your question?

[Barry_Green]

The US HV20 and US XHA1 can play back 24F and 30F, as well as 60i and 30P.

The PAL HV20 and PAL XHA1 can play back 25F and 25P and 50i.

[Emanuel]

Thanks to both for your care. It answers AuditoryVisuals, yes indeed. Coming from the film realm (or TV production BUT as producer) after 15 years far away from this prosumer world (when I sold my Old Lady Sony's Hi8 V5000 after 2 years of service :)), all of this is new for me.

[AuditoryVisuals]

The US HV20 and US XHA1 can play back 24F and 30F, as well as 60i and 30P.

The PAL HV20 and PAL XHA1 can play back 25F and 25P and 50i.

Don't forget about the PAL upgrade to the NTSC XH A1, playback of 25f/25p and 50i.

The XH A1 can playback 30p or 25p? I guess it would be able to since 30f and 25f are virtually the same. But if there were to be a camera that recorded HDV 1080p24 without pulldown, would the XH A1/XH G1 or XL H1 be able to playback that too?

[Barry_Green]

No, 30F and 25F are *very* different than 30P and 25P. They're completely incompatible recording modes. That's why there's such confusion -- Canon invented their own recording mode for 30F and 25F, and no Sony or JVC gear can play it. But they used regular 60i recording for 30P and 24P, and regular 50i recording for 25P, so any Sony equipment will play their 24P/30P/25P, but no Sony equipment will play 30F/25F/24F.

But if there were to be a camera that recorded HDV 1080p24 without pulldown
That's what the 24F recording format is. 24 frames, no pulldown.

See, there's confusion over 24F, because it means two different things. It means how the image was created (via interlaced chips instead of progressive chips) but it also means how it gets recorded (which is as pure progressive frames with no pulldown; i.e., not embedded within a 60i data stream). Those two techniques are completely separatable, they're not dependent on each other.

So yes, they could certainly have put 24F RECORDING in the HV20, and used its 24P IMAGING to record in the "24F" format. Then you'd have what you're asking: 1080p24 recorded with no pulldown.

But as of yet, they haven't made such a combination.

[AuditoryVisuals]

That's what the 24F recording format is. 24 frames, no pulldown.

Sorry, I meant if there were to be ANOTHER camera with HDV 1080p24 without pulldown. I don't mean another 24f camera either. Would you be able to play that footage in an XH A1, XL H1 or XH G1?

[Barry_Green]

24F is a 1080/24p recording system. So if they were to add "24F" to a CMOS camera, it would be exactly what you're talking about.

The terminology is quite muddled however, so I don't know if they'll do it or not, or if they'll just wait for AVC-HD where they can start over with a clean slate. AVC-HD has a native 1080/24P recording mode, and Canon has CMOS chips, so it could all net out.

But yes it's possible; I just don't know what they'd call it. They used the 1080/24p name on the HV20, which is now associated with interlaced recording from progressive chips. And they used the 1080/24F name on the A1/G1, which is now associated with progressive recording from interlaced chips.

It could be done; using a true progressive CMOS camera and the "24F" recording method, it would indeed be true 24P imaging and recording. But I doubt they'll try to get there from here, the marketing is too muddled. However I do expect them to offer exactly that in an AVC-HD cam.

[arrestthisman]

So I'm assuming from all of this that th HV20 is NOT true 24p, in that is always records from interlaced chips; the chips are NOT natively progressive like our pannies?

[Huy Vu]

So I'm assuming from all of this that th HV20 is NOT true 24p, in that is always records from interlaced chips; the chips are NOT natively progressive like our pannies?
Uh, where did you get that idea. The CMOS chip on the HV20 is natively progressive.

[AuditoryVisuals]

So I'm assuming from all of this that th HV20 is NOT true 24p, in that is always records from interlaced chips; the chips are NOT natively progressive like our pannies?

It is from a progressive CMOS sensor, but in a 60i stream, all the frames are still there, you just need to extract them. It's like the DVX100 in means of a pulldown.

[Barry_Green]

in that is always records from interlaced chips
No, you got it backwards. The HV20 uses progressive chips at all times, and it images a true progressive stream. However, it doesn't record it *as progressive*; it splits it up into fields using 2:3 pulldown. What you describe is how the 24F system works; the HV20 uses a different method which is rightly called 24P.

Someday soon NLEs will offer the ability to reverse that pulldown process out and then you'll be able to work on your true 24P footage the way that you're supposed to.