B Press, Cinelike V or D?

[PerceptionFilms]

Just looking for opinions and advice. I've done some tests and I think I know the answer. But still would like to know what everyone else prefers. I'm getting ready to shoot a new indie feature and was wondering what I should use? B Press, Cinelike V or D? I'd want the film to have lots of punchy colors, low noise and still look like film.

[tmnt]

I think it comes down to whether CC will be involved. In your case it will so I'd go B.Press.

[martin-sfx]

You should do a lot of testing and go with the settings you like best.
If you want to be on the save side I recommend shooting "flat" to get as much information as possible in the picture. Get the most dynamic range out of the camera by shooting Cinelike_D and keep all other settings at default (don't use cinematrix but instead Norm). This way you have a clean picture a lot of room in post to play with the colors and contrast.

[Vincent Wong Yoon Wei]

I prefer Cinelike D the most. It's the most natural looking of the cine curve.

Cine V seems like the really punchy and filmlike gamma initially due to the oversaturation but it's overall too contrasty and the skintones too oversaturated to look natural.

B press crushes the black too much in a very unnatural way. I can always tell when the blacks are actually natural blacks or crushed in post black.

Crushed in post black looks really unnatural and ugly to mee.

Battlestar galactica kinda overused it too much in the first half of the season 2. The second half of season 2 looks so much better and natural.

[HDkilledFILM.]

B press and Master ped -8 for high contrast is my shizzle.

play around, I prefer the crushed blacks it helps me light only what I want seen. It just depends on if you plan on doing things in camera or in post. Also if your shooting with an adapter you might just have to find the happy medium between needing light and wanting a "look" in camera.

[PerceptionFilms]

Thanks everyone for the info. I was thinking of just shooting Cinelike D. I might just do that to be safe.

[Cynic821]

Dont worry about making your footage look like something else, embrace the technology and make it look how it looks good to you.

[PerceptionFilms]

Good point. I also want to have the option to do a transfer to 35mm. But I'm not sure I will need to do this so I also want it to look good for direct to video. Is there a way to achieve this and have good results for both distribution options?

[DavidBeier]

Keep in mind that Cine V has a lot less noise than Cine D and, despite having 1/2 stop less lattitude, handles blow outs much better.

Personally, I find Cine V looks great and not too contrasty at all.

Cine V is great indoors thanks to its lack of noise and is also great on overcast days if you'd like something to punch the image up.

Outdoors, when you've got direct sunlight, Cine-D is the way to go since every little bit of lattitude is worth it and noise probably won't be an issue with things so bright.

Finally, B-Press is really good for night shooting and anything under-exposed.

[pmpworks]

I rarely take mine off Cine v, just like the look I get with it.

[TedRR]

Cine V here also.
It really is a matter of taste though.

[Goddard11]

Generally, Indoors I shoot Cine V if there is enough light. It is less noisy, and outdoors I shoot Cine D, where there is already hard contrast (shadows in direct sunlight), this helps with more wiggle room in CC.

[PerceptionFilms]

Thanks everyone for the settings.

[Vincent Wong Yoon Wei]

I realized the popular idea is that Cine D is more noisy but from my experience, both are as noisy if underlight.

[dolph2000]

you can use d ouside but I do a lot cc and also in D during bright sunlight you get noise in the darker parts. You can go V and lower the chroma.

[BRoy]

Can someone please tell me what the knee point percentages for cine D, cine V, and B.Press are?

[Barry_Green]

There is no knee on cine D or cine V; it's a fixed slope.

B.Press uses the knee circuit, low= about 80 IRE, mid = about 90 IRE, high = about 100 IRE.

[Lenilenapi]

I would have to side with Vincent on this. I find Cine V and Black Press both unnaturally crushed and contrasty. if you want that look then go for it , but it is nothing like the extended response of film.

The danger with Cine D is that there is no knee circuit so be careful about overexposure. I tend to shoot almost all the time with HDNorm which I think is a good general purpose gamma while still maintaining a knee circuit. then you can raise the gamma as needed with Norm and High for special situations. or crush it with the other settings.
The main thing is you need to lower your black pedastel levels to make any of these gammas correct for a "0" set-up". for Cine d it should land @ -5 and for the HD & SD Norm it should sit at -4. This is is just to get your capped blacks @ "0" where they belong.

Lenny Levy

[marco0782]

Knee is pretty much useless unless you are a documentary or ENG videographer. The look of areas that have been "knee'd" is almost as bad as overexposed areas, and your zebra marker won't warn you about areas that are being artificially stopped down by the knee.

I had some beautiful footage partially destroyed because knee was enabled and I didn't know certain areas were peaking because the zebras didn't show up. The knee'd areas looked like total crap, and I could have prevented the whole problem by stopping down.


Marco

[BRoy]

Thank you Barry for responding so quickly. I'm still confused regarding Cine D & V though...here's why. I understand that the Cine gammas have fixed slopes, but you said there is no knee on Cine D or V; and there are a few threads that led me to believe a knee was present on these two gammas.

One thread was by Adam Wilt, and one was by you. You said in another thread "Cine-d and cine-v are basically variations on the original. For one thing both incorporate knee protection against blowouts, something the original Cine-gamma does not do"
Adam Wilt said in an article (about the 100A though, I have the 100B) that "All the cine gammas incorporate knees." "Cinelike on the DVX100A has a knee at around 100-percent..." "Cine-like_d's knee kicks in at the same point but compresses brightness a bit more vigorously. Cine-like V has a knee at 105-percent, further flattening highlights."

Am I missing something. I'm trying to find this out because if a non-adjustable knee is preset in the cine-gammas, I'd like to know what they are and if they're different from the 100A; because where they are set would obviously have an impact on whether i'd want to use them or not.
Thanks again for your help.

Brett

[Lenilenapi]

BRoy,
I'm confused about that as well. When the DVX100A came out it added Cine D and CineV to the original CineGamma which had no knee. CineD & CineV were supposed to have some kind of knee circuit as you quote above.

So is the Cine D and Cine V in the HVX different than in the DVX?

Lenny Levy

[BRoy]

Anybody have the answers to my previous post on this thread?

[bwest]

and your zebra marker won't warn you about areas that are being artificially stopped down by the knee.
Marco


Is that true... no zebras with knee? That might explain a few things...

[PaPa]

uh, the knee is on all the time, all you can do is adjust it from low, mid, and high to tell the camera at what point to allow the whites to clip. zebra can be turned on or off regardless of this.

If im not mistaken, cine d and cine v have knee on auto, where as regular cine like you can adjust it, i believe that is one reason i used the regular as opposed to cinelike d. never used V, made it too video lookin. and D gave the image too much noise.

[jjon]

cinelike d works best for me

[bill totolo]

I was a big fan of Cine V, now I'm playing around with Cine D and -3 to -4 on Pedestal. I'm kind of preferring this look now.

Also for night shoots I go with a custom setting. I'm always looking for good settings for with gain up.