PART 3 - Canon HV20 Clips just filmed in Laguna Beach, Ca!

[PappasArts]

More Canon HV20 footage just filmed in Laguna Beach! Much warmer material than before. More to come of-course, from Catalina Island next round.

All footage will be up only for a limited time. Enjoy!


THE LINK TO THE FOOTAGE:

http://pbase.com/arrfilms


Don't forget to use the VLC player.....

Link to player:
http://www.videolan.org/vlc/


Michael Pappas
Arrfilms@hotmail.com
PappasArts & Arrfilms Main site
CONTACT VIA AOL INSTANT MESSENGER
AT { PAPPASARTS2 }
XLH1 and HVX200 frame grabs and news here:
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms
http://www.PappasArts.com
http://www.Myspace.com/PappasArts

[vsansal]

If it is not asking too much can you please post some 720p videos. Thank you.

[rapsucks]

Michael,

Your footage always looks really good, but I have one questions.

All the HV20 stuff of yours that I've seen is interlaced. How does the 24p function of the camera work? Are you choosing not to shoot in progressive mode, or is there something in your compression that interlaces the footage?

The sharpness of the images that you've taken is impressive. I don't know if the color holds up to professional standards--or even the HVX--but the camera has enough going for it (price, medium, size, etc) that a lot of people are really excited about it. I would love to see some progressive footage if you had any. Even a couple of framegrabs would be great.

Thanks for keeping us all informed.

[Elton]

rapsucks,

24p mode on the HV20 is 24 progressive frames carried over 60 interlaced fields, i.e. 24p w/pulldown, much like the dvx's standard 24p, only in HD. The footage has to be reverse telecine'd in order to get a true 24p clip from it.

It doesn't have a 24p advanced mode or even a true 24 fps output like A1 24F via firewire because it simply complies to the 1080i HDTV standard and isn't targeted at the 24p NLE crowd.

My guess as to why Canon did it this way is simply that they were avoiding complexity that a consumer wouldn't want to deal with. If they're going to edit their footage, I don't think they'd want to deal with the challenge of integrating 23.98 footage in a 60i 29.97 timeline. Better to just let both modes have the same recorded frame rate to tape and for playback.

[rapsucks]

Thanks for the info.

I've heard that removing the pulldown with FCP/Cinema Tools can be quite a chore. Have you had any luck in doing so? If so, what's the method? I tried removing the advance pulldown from some HVX footage that was captured improperly (poo poo-ing CitiDISK) and it wasn't able to do it.

[Artscroll]

How are you getting such deep blacks? Very nice contrasty look. What settings did you have on the camera? It doesn't look like the Cinelike footage I've seen (which appears to be soft and not as contrasty). Your footage and settings are amazing. My HV20 has been backordered at Best Buy and I'm eagerly awaiting it! Do you like the onboard sound? From your samples I'm not too impressed with the sound. I'm thinking about picking up a Canon DM-50 shotgun mic to use with HV20.

[rawfa]

Did you do something on post? This footage looks extremely saturated with very high contrast.

[Elton]

Those are straight-from-the-cam, raw clips. No post manipulation at all.

[Elton]

Thanks for the info.

I've heard that removing the pulldown with FCP/Cinema Tools can be quite a chore. Have you had any luck in doing so? If so, what's the method? I tried removing the advance pulldown from some HVX footage that was captured improperly (poo poo-ing CitiDISK) and it wasn't able to do it.

Removing pulldown manually is a pain, period. It can't be done to HDV without moving to an intermediate intra-frame codec. Cinema Tools doesn't like GOP's. Not totally sure about AE, which can actually guess at the cadence, but I think it needs discrete frames to work with too.

A relatively cool new option is to simply capture the HDMI output via CineForm Aspect HD and a Decklink Intensity card. (pc plug-in now...soon to be FCP/Intel Mac capable)
This software simply recognizes the cadence and removes pulldown on the fly, giving you no-hassle 24p clips to edit in Premiere Pro. (FCP soon)

I have my own method of removing pulldown, but it's a fairly involved process and not terribly intuitive.

[rawfa]

Those are straight-from-the-cam, raw clips. No post manipulation at all.

This is actually very interesting to find out, because the first clips posted by pappas didn't present such saturated/high contrasted colors....which means there's more possibilities about the on-camera controls than people thought there would be.

What really worried me is the lack of BASIC manual control (this is being debated on the gain thread). You can either control aperture or shutter, and the gain does whatever it feels like?! This is crazy. I mean, you could try to put some ND filters on the camera but the internal controls would probably interpret this as low light and boost the gain. There's gotta be solution for this.

[ecking]

These shots and nice looking and very useful. Is there anyway to dial down the saturation at all in the camera to shoot a flatter picture?
The worst clip was the one of the moon so much green (fringing?) on the moon in ruined what was otherwise a great shot.

[rawfa]

My thoughts exactly. The saturation is too exaggerated, but I'm sure it's something that can be changed on-camera (it has a sharpness control tool if I'm not mistaken). If you look at Part1 and Part2 of the tests done by Pappas you will see that none of the other videos displays the exaggerated saturation seen on these ones. I think that a middle ground between the first tests and these ones would be perfect...because even though these are way more saturated, they have a nicer organic feel to it. I'm actually very curious to try this camera my self and do a side by side test with the A1.

[jmc]

Yeah, the red and green fringing is really noticeable at times. The interlacing was pretty bad on the fire shots too, but that can be fixed.

For the price, it's an amazing little camera, but if you add a 35mm adapter, isn't that going to make the fringing even worse?

[Bruce Morgan]

CAN WE DO THE REVERSE TELECINE OR IS THIS THE WEAKNESS IN THE USE OF THIS CAMERA?
- before we actually get a quality 24p image ,do we have to spend money at the post house ?
.Forgive my basic question , I am oh so new to the High Def world .
I just got my Canon hv20 . All sort of question cropp up
A Back to film possible /improbable ?
B Type of tape to use ? any suggestions are appreciated .
All the Best
Bruce

[Barry_Green]

Reverse telecine appears to be not practical yet, but will assuredly be forthcoming from the major NLE vendors. Because Canon's using the same pulldown/recording style as Sony's V1, you can count on support from Sony Vegas, and because EDIUS supports everything under the sun you can count on support from them. And FCP will probably have something in its next revision.

[Bruce Morgan]

This almost answers my question but somhow it would be nice to SEE what this set up looks like with a description.
Also , what is the definition of HDMI output?

[Bruce Morgan]

Oh yes a broadcast engineer told me about the night mares with the Sony V1 ..yet I never heard any mention of a problem here on the boards and all v1 owners when asked about the post phase nightmare act like they are working in a double black project.

Today after recieving the camera ,I called the distributor .
Chris said that they tested the camera with an inexpensive fuji tape for many months and had no drop outs
But
He did mention that the camera takes one good frame then records code to interpolate the next 14 or 15 frames .
I rolled my eyes -i said" here we go",

But since the nightmare post production issues of the Sony V1 were in 2004 , I imagine they have made good advances .
I am hoping for the following
1)Shot 1080 p on a Cannon hv20
2)Download to lap top via Vegas 7 (here is where my knowledge of the frame pull down and what happens next is lacking.

3)Edit in 24p

4) remind myself that my product has a film look on a monitor and that film out results on this camera are unknown .
Any advice is appreciated on the above ..

[Barry_Green]

You can't do that yet. You could transfer to Vegas and edit the 24p-within-60i on a 60i timeline, but you cannot edit it as 24p. Have to wait for an update to Vegas before you can do that.

[Bruce Morgan]

So after I finish i shot 24p -I move into a 60i work file environment then out put as 60i
Then
If I remember There is a feature on some NLE where you convert 60i to 24p ..
Yikes !
Im shoting and shoting till the update .
6oi you gain light sensitvity but in progressive you gain more picture info .....
I hope they figure this out
Ill call Edius and see what they are doing ....

[Artscroll]

This is for the Windows crowd. I got my HV20 today and have played with the numerous clips uploaded. All I can say is I haven't been this excited since I first got my DVX.

I have successfully removed the pulldown by changing the .m2t file to an .mpg with HDTVtoMPEG2 version 1.11.89 it is a freeware app on the internet for changing transport files into temporary MPEG2 files (when you do this, accept the defaults it gives you). It seems there is absolutely no quality loss in the transition. This is step one. At this step you still have the pulldown.

Next, download VirtualDubMod, another freeware app and load your MPG file in that. Then check the radio button under VIDEO, FRAME RATE, inverse telecine (3:2 pulldown removal), "Reconstruct from fields - adaptive)". Pick a compression codec (CineForm, lossless, any codec you prefer) in VirtualDubMod and you are left with a .avi file that is 23.976. It does a real good job of removing the pulldown. I've seen maybe one or two stray frames that it might miss, sometimes none. Then edit in your favorite Windows NLE.

I know it is a laborious process, but it works for me. We might be stuck with a two/three step process until the NLE writers make provisions for the HV20 which assuredly will happen.

Mark

[Bruce Morgan]

Great reply!!
Any links to list???
Thanks a Bunch
Bruce

[Gordon Prince]

They're down...

[Gordon Prince]

Much warmer material than before. More to come of-course, from Catalina Island next round.

All footage will be up only for a limited time. Enjoy!


They were up only saturday night. New clips?

[PappasArts]

The HV20 footage is back up for download.

All footage will be up only for a limited time. Enjoy!


THE LINK TO THE FOOTAGE:

http://pbase.com/arrfilms


Don't forget to use the VLC player.....

Link to player:
http://www.videolan.org/vlc/


Michael Pappas
Arrfilms@hotmail.com
PappasArts & Arrfilms Main site
CONTACT VIA AOL INSTANT MESSENGER
AT { PAPPASARTS2 }
XLH1 and HVX200 frame grabs and news here:
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms
http://www.PappasArts.com
http://www.Myspace.com/PappasArts
__________________

[kyle.presley]

When I try to download, I get an error message; a 404.

[PappasArts]

Give it a try now. It should work.

[kyle.presley]

Downloading Now. Thanks! Where did you get that grip handle for the Canon?

[PappasArts]

Your welcome Kyle! As for the grip, it's been around for many years in the misc camera parts box. I dont have any idea where it's from.

Pappas