B&H has the HV20!

[SamKam]

Just got a call from B&H letting me know they have the HV20 in stock. Heading there right now.

[dahlstrom]

COOOOOOLLL!!!! Download some samples as soon as possible plzz!!

[Kholi]

You buying one or are you just going there?

[SamKam]

Pre-bought it and just got back with it. Gotta tend to a recovering pooch for a liitle bit, then I'll shoot and post some "straight out of the box" footage.

[Kholi]

great. Eyes on this thread.

[Sean Michael]

Great news!

[SamKam]

Shot a few minutes with the HV20. Imported without a hitch into FCP. Made a quicktime movie out of the footage. It's 242 mb. How do I share this so all can see? (sorry, have never posted footage before)

[Elton]

Can you simply upload a few frame grabs to your dvxuser upload account and post? Also, please take a few pictures of the camera itself, if at all possible. :)

[SamKam]

Sorry for the size. I ain't great at this.
Everything is on automatic. Only setting I changed was from 60i to 24f.
All are available light. The last two are in a very dark room.

http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/21747/1174423913.jpg
http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/21747/1174424097.jpg
http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/21747/1174424182.jpg
http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/21747/1174424257.jpg
http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/21747/1174424453.jpg

[kyle.presley]

How did you capture those frames?

[SamKam]

How did you capture those frames?

Freeze frame in FCP converted to a jpeg.

[DammitJanet]

Eagerly awaiting your footage. :)

[SamKam]

Eagerly awaiting your footage. :)

Any idea how I can post it? it's over 10mb.

[dahlstrom]

http://stage6.divx.com/ a fast link. And you can send a file under 2gb.

[Mark Dog]

cant wait to see the video show us some videi sam cant wait to see go sam go sam :)

peace n luv

Mark Dog

[Darth Bunnykins]

SamKam, in one of your frame captures I think I see a Canon XH-A1. In your opinion, how does the HV-20's footage compare?

[SamKam]

SamKam, in one of your frame captures I think I see a Canon XH-A1. In your opinion, how does the HV-20's footage compare?


Too early to tell. Just shot a quick "out of the box" test (which should be ready for dowloading soon). The 20 is definitely a consumer camera. High end image, no doubt, but no possibility of customization like with the A1.

Some other quick impressions -
1. toggle button kinda flimsy. feels like it could break off if you're not careful.
2. smaller than I imagined. very much a palmcorder, and I mean that in a good way.
3. not great placement of the zoom toggle - for me, anyway.
4. good size lcd.

[apfx07]

I had heard from a user in Japan that the toggle buttom was fragil and might be source of future headaches for HV-20 users. Does anything else on the HV-20 seem flimsy or vulnerable to the everday hazards of the urban evironment? Plenty of questions with not enough time to ask......:-)

[SamKam]

Apologies. Uploading the test footage has been delayed. Site I was using went down in the middle of the upload. Trying to find a good site now and will post link as soon as possible.

[Elton]

I would suggest capturing raw m2t's via firewire and DVHSCap, which is in the developer's tools folder in OSX. If you can't find it there, just google it and you'll find a download.

All we need are short 10 second clips that are truly raw from tape. Don't worry about anything else. Further compression to any other codec just confuses things.

[SamKam]

THIS LINK NO LONGER ACTIVE

At long last love . . .
Here's the link. Remember, it's straight out of the box. Automatic everything. Only changed the 60i to 24f.
http://www.youngsterproduction.com/videos/hv20%20out%20of%20box%20test.mov

Many thanks to jade8472 for hosting.

Elton-
Had just finished the above when I got your suggestion. Let me know if you still want me to try that after you've seen the above. Also, I'll post pics of the camera tomorrow.

[FatDaddy]

Not too bad. Was that the shutter adjusting during the A1 shot? I didn't know cameras did things like that. It seems like you can't complain at $1000. Would love to hear any experience with using it as a deck for the A1.

Thanks for working to make it work.

[Elton]

Elton-
Had just finished the above when I got your suggestion. Let me know if you still want me to try that after you've seen the above. Also, I'll post pics of the camera tomorrow.

Cool, downloading now (918 KBs--nice!). Just wanted to say that I appreciate the trouble you're going to, to give us all a sneak peek. Thanks!

[Elton]

Ok, something looks bad about that downconvert. Did you just shoot regular DV, or have the camera perform the letterbox conversion?

I would definitely prefer shorter raw HDV m2t's. It would be especially nice to see a few from 24p mode, and at least one from 1080i. And if you could just shoot a street scene with cars passing by, we could get a feel for the codec and how it's handling moderately stressful motion.

PM me and I can walk you through it if you need help.

[vsansal]

Ok, something looks bad about that downconvert. Did you just shoot regular DV, or have the camera perform the letterbox conversion?

I would definitely prefer shorter raw HDV m2t's. It would be especially nice to see a few from 24p mode, and at least one from 1080i. And if you could just shoot a street scene with cars passing by, we could get a feel for the codec and how it's handling moderately stressful motion.

PM me and I can walk you through it if you need help.

He says he changed it to 24p, hv20 can only shoot 24p in HDV mode not DV mode.

[ecking]

It looks pretty nice but I'm getting the feeling that the web compression raped the quality a bit.

[Artscroll]

SamKam thanks for posting this, I've been checking my Best Buy order daily to see when they're going to ship mine...I like the footage and the dog is really cute. I did notice noise during the "A Day Off" section when you zoom onto the poster, this is probably due to the AutoGain kicking in so I'm not too worried. From what I can tell, it does a pretty good job with low light but I wouldn't trade its low light capability compared to my 100B but that is to be expected. Wow, it's finally here, 24p HD for the "copper coin" crowd. I'm pumped!

[Tomtebo]

Nice shoot man! thanks for the lovley post. I have been waiting for some real shots on the Hv20. I know now that i will buy one as soon it will be realesed in Sweden.

[Darth Bunnykins]

I think that until the 24p can be extracted from the 60i with the pulldown removed, we will not be able to really judge the image from this camera. The interlace is too distracting. But I appreciate your efforts SamKam.

[AuditoryVisuals]

Hasn't anybody else gotten theirs yet?

I would love an M2T or a WMV from Vegas with pulldown removed.

[kyle.presley]

This may be a lame question, but if it is true 24p then why is it interlaced?

[Darth Bunnykins]

The camera captures 24 progressive frames but has to lay it to tape in 60 interlaced fields.

[SamKam]

pics of the camera, as requested. sponge is used for scale:
http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/21747/1174485749.jpg
http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/21747/1174485749.jpg
http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/21747/1174485899.jpg
http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/21747/1174485939.jpg
http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/21747/1174485985.jpg
http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/21747/1174486044.jpg

[SamKam]

FatDaddy - used the camra to import its own footage without a problem, so am assuming it will work the same for footage shot on the A1, but will be testing this evening to make sure and will let you know.

Elton- Shot HDV. Camera doesn't shoot 24p in SD. Didn't change any other setting, so not sure about letterboxing. Will PM you his afternoon to walk me thru the m2t process.

[Sacksnack]

Could we get some pics of just the sponge, and another item so we can see the scale of the sponge? Just Kidding.

Thanks for doing all this SamKam. Do we know if you can turn the auto gain off?

[Mark Dog]

was the video full resloution im thinking it was a little compressed , if so can you send a full resloution wmv file please thanx , more fotage be nice to maybe some people how about you sam :)


peace n luv

Mark Dog

[AuditoryVisuals]

I'm not familliar with the whole sponge field, what's the standard sizes for sponges? And is that a scouring pad on the underside of the sponge? Forgive me for my ignorance.

Can we get a picture of your HV20 next to your MacBook Pro, ruler or XH A1?

[Zim]

It is to bad they didn't make it a more pro looking sponge. It looks like something you would use at home! The HV20 looks pretty nice.

[Mark Dog]

also sam did you use the cinema mode when you took this footage along with the 24p mode ???????????? , if not can you give us some that type footage too thank you great :)

peace n luv

Mark Dog

[SamKam]

ok, these pics are for all those who didn't like the sponge (figured it was a common and standard-size household item) Guess I'm dating myself, 'cause back in the days of radio we used sponges to measure distances and such.

Mark- didn't use cinema mode. will try that also in the coming days.
http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/21747/1174492721.jpg
http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/21747/1174493390.jpg

[Zim]

now that is a better scale. Wow the HV20 really looks small next the A1

[LuckyStudio 13]

which eye piece you have over the stock A1 eyepeice u have there ??? i hate the stock A1 eye piece

[Elton]

Well, that proves it's definitely a palmcorder! Holy cow that's small!

Thanks for the pics. :)

[Mark Dog]

seen the footage burned it on dvd to watch om my tv sd tv know but the footage looks jittery hmmmm , also great pic ur a1 next to the hv20 the hv20 is so small , but the a1 look so nice , please please more footage as soon you can sam please , more prettty pictures please :)

peace n luv

Mark Dog

[Mark Dog]

can you give us a 24p non cinema mode image in full 1080p resloution in a h.264 file and one using the cinema mode same resloution in a h.264 file that be great both those type images would show us the full resloution show us the camera good some indor and out door fotage some with some people be good sam but basically footage in those resloution be great can you hook us up with that hope so please sam you the nam if you cant do it knwo one can :)

peace n luv

Mark Dog

[Mark Dog]

when i mean images i mean footage to clearfiy that

[kyle.presley]

can you give us a 24p non cinema mode image in full 1080p resloution in a h.264 file and one using the cinema mode same resloution in a h.264 file that be great both those type images would show us the full resloution show us the camera good some indor and out door fotage some with some people be good sam but basically footage in those resloution be great can you hook us up with that hope so please sam you the nam if you cant do it knwo one can :)

peace n luv

Mark Dog

You seem excited Mark Dog! LOL, how long did it take you to type that?

[Mark Dog]

a little while bro just waiting fo sam to come up wuth goodies baby lol


peace n luv

Mark Dog

[SamKam]

I've got approximately 20 seconds of raw m2t footage - exterior, with motion - captured (thank you Elton) and ready to post. Can anyone host?

jade comes thru again! new post ready soon.

[Tomtebo]

Can you try focus on an object to so we can se how the foucs is on the camera. Nice job anyway!

[SamKam]

Here it is. Many thanks to Elton and jade.

http://www.youngsterproduction.com/videos/hv20%20raw.m2t

[Elton]

Just saw the raw clip. Everyone, please try to remember that the interlacing is because of standard pulldown added to the 24p for 1080i standards compatibility. There is no way to shoot without the pulldown ala 24F A1/H1 HDV. But of course, there are ways to get rid of it easily.

Other than that... prepare to pee. :) It's just insane for grand.

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

There is no way to shoot without the pulldown ala 24F A1/H1 HDV. But of course, there are ways to get rid of it easily.



Can you explain how one would do that?

Please... :)

:dankk2:

[Elton]

SamKam,

Thanks for shooting a busy city street shot. It was a good test of the codec and I think it's handling the motion very well. And it definitely looks like true 1080p

Kyser--

Convert to an intra-frame intermediate codec and do a reverse telecine in Cinema Tools , or have After Effects remove the pulldown. I will do this and render an h.264 24p clip from it and post. :)

Vegas Users-Take this m2t into the program and see if it can edit it and remove pulldown on the fly. I've heard the program can automatically deal with 24p/w/pulldown and render 24p on the fly.

This camera is nuts.

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

I have AE! SWEET. Should I do this before or after editing?

Also, how do I get AE to do this? What do I set it to export at?

Thanks again,

Cheers,

Mike

[Elton]

Maybe an AE expert can chime in.

Let me just say that I am really, Really, REALLY happy that I held off on getting an HV-10.

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

No problem, I'm sure I'll be able to figure it out.
I'll be getting my HV20 very soon... can't wait.

[Huy Vu]

If I were to guess at a way to remove the 2:3 pulldown I would say import the footage into AE, which can detect and remove the pulldown, and then render out again as 24 fps video.

[Tomtebo]

My god! Lovley, just lovley! Ihope that we can see som focus pic and stuff. Thanks for the uppload!

[Barry_Green]

Vegas 6 doesn't have provision to remove the pulldown; if it's there it must have been added in Vegas 7 and I don't have 7.

[Elton]

I have a high bit rate h.264 QT of the clip with pulldown removed. Can anyone host?

[Elton]

Here's a grab: http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/10380/1174527200.jpg

$1K. Unreal.

[Boomerang]

My HV20 showed up today from B&H and really only bought it for family shoots.

Yes the joystick is fragile. Overall I find the camera to be on the flimsy side compared to my old Sony HC3. But I really could care less because the HV20 shoots 24 so bye bye sony :)

I really am excited with the manual focus amd shutter/app control.

If I get some footage tomorrow I will post a link.

[Sacksnack]

I'm downloading now...then I'll run it through Vegas and After Effects. I would assume you would open the file in AE, then Interpret footage, and remove pulldown using the WWSSW scheme. I'm guessing it's the normal 3:2 pulldown?

UPDATE- After Effects removes the pulldown using the WSSWW scheme.

[Elton]

Yes, it's normal pulldown. :)

[Barry_Green]

Looks like EDIUS may be actually removing the pulldown; there's an HDV 1080/24p preset in EDIUS 3.61. But the footage file doesn't give any indication of it being flagged for 24p, so ... I'm not sure whether EDIUS is doing a proper pulldown removal, or blending frames/fields; it looks pretty good so I suspect EDIUS is handling the footage the right way maybe?

[Sacksnack]

I'm not seeing any pulldown removal in Vegas 7.0d. I'm by no means a Vegas ninja, I'm a Premiere user, so don't quote me here. After Effects did work, but if you select "guess 3:2 pulldown," AE selects WWSSW, which is normally correct for removing 3:2 pulldown, but that creates crazy jaggies on every other frame. WSSWW works well and produces the original 24 frames. The footage does look excellent.
-Kevin

[vsansal]

I'm not seeing any pulldown removal in Vegas 7.0d. I'm by no means a Vegas ninja, I'm a Premiere user, so don't quote me here. After Effects did work, but if you select "guess 3:2 pulldown," AE selects WWSSW, which is normally correct for removing 3:2 pulldown, but that creates crazy jaggies on every other frame. WSSWW works well and produces the original 24 frames. The footage does look excellent.
-Kevin

Well it seems that Vegas 7.0d indeed have 2:3 pulldown removal but it is only for DV so it doesn't support HDV.

[Emanuel]

http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/21747/1174492721.jpg


1080p form factor unbelievable!

The Francis Ford Coppola prediction from the E. Coppola's Hearts of Darkness: A Filmmaker’s Apocalypse has been coming an undeniable truth these last days.

:thumbup:

[Gordon Prince]

Thank you for your remind Emanuel. :) Very promising.

[Emanuel]

I actually know a lot of shooters (including PRO ones) who can't wait to put the hands on it. :)

[TimurCivan]

ok, these pics are for all those who didn't like the sponge (figured it was a common and standard-size household item) Guess I'm dating myself, 'cause back in the days of radio we used sponges to measure distances and such.

Mark- didn't use cinema mode. will try that also in the coming days.
http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/21747/1174492721.jpg


Look the A1 Gave birth!!!!!

[vsansal]

Did anyone notice the picture on the computer screen? Looks like a happy owner of an HV20

[ecking]

The link isn't working on my mbp! And I want this footage so bad!

[Huy Vu]

The link isn't working on my mbp! And I want this footage so bad!

ecking, I removed the original video from the server to make room for the second raw grab. You can download that footage by going back to the second page, post #51.

[Toenis]

I haven`t done a lot research but one question crosses my mind from time to time. Does the HV20 have only semiautomatic aperture controls like AV and TV or does it offer true manual control too?
Like the shutter can be fixed to 50/100 and operator can control the aperture value as the lightning conditions change?

I haven`t been able to find it from the user manual.

Thanks in advance,
T

[Noel Evans]

Look the A1 Gave birth!!!!!

LMAO

Thanks for the pics etc. Downloading the clip now.

[Cinetastic]

Touchdown in Tokyo next Tuesday evening and will hop along to Bic Camera in Ikebukero on Wednesday (after signing in to Tipness Gym first!)looking to pick up an HV20 USA model - othewise I will have to head down to Akihabra. I would love the BIC Camera purchase for the loyalty card points, to get a load of the accessories such as the filter set, wide angle adaptor, microphone (maybe not though), on-board lamp for the accessory shoe, extra battery and charger, travel pouch. I'll be like the guy straight off the boat who the salesman can selll everything to, LOL!

[AuditoryVisuals]

Sam Kam, nice footage. But it could be better. Try not to shoot towards the sun. And put the camera on a tripod.

An example is one of the earliest clips from the XL H1 by Kaku Ito. http://www.hdvinfo.net/media/kakugyo...anning.m2t.zip

Sorry if I ask for too much but I really want to see more cinematic footage rather than just film-like.

[Mark Dog]

did you use the cinema mode on that clip in the street sam ?????????


peace n luv

Mark Dog

[Norbert]

Sam Kam, nice footage. But it could be better. Try not to shoot towards the sun. And put the camera on a tripod.

An example is one of the earliest clips from the XL H1 by Kaku Ito. http://www.hdvinfo.net/media/kakugyo...anning.m2t.zip

Sorry if I ask for too much but I really want to see more cinematic footage rather than just film-like.I second that. I want to know what this camera can do under the right circumstances. The video was a little too bright and washed out for my taste but good for what it was. I understand it was a test to see how well it handles lots of motion.
For your next test, try shutter priority with 1/48 shutter and lock the exposure and then dial it down a notch or two.

By the way, does anyone know yet if it actually adjusts the aparture when using the EXP button in shutter priority mode? Or does it only adjust some kind of brightness/gain?

[Elton]

Incidentally, something I'm noticing while stepping through the clip--a complete lack of bayer pattern artifacts. There's a fair amount of vibrant color in the shot, and the HV-20's RGB filter /DIGIC processing is doing a very nice job in presenting it.

I'm impressed.

[Boomerang]

Good question... I shot for a bit locked @1/48 and would toggle through the exposure. I hope it is an aperture control but I cannot tell as of yet.

On a side note it went through FCP very smoothly and exported through compressor great as well.

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

Hey guys, how do I get the m2t file into After Effects? It won't seem to import. I guess I have to convert it to something first?

Mike

[SamKam]

did you use the cinema mode on that clip in the street sam ?????????


peace n luv

Mark Dog


No man. Straight out of the box. Automatic everything. Only changed to 24p from 60i.

AuditoryVisuals - Sorry, bro. Wasn't trying to do the best test possible or be comprehensive. Just trying to squeeze in a quick test for all to see until there is time to do more.

[SamKam]

which eye piece you have over the stock A1 eyepeice u have there ??? i hate the stock A1 eye piece

It's a large Sony. Fits nicely over the A1's eyepiece. Will try to find the part number and get back to you.


It's the Sony Eyecup model No.21794140. Here's a link:
http://www.partstore.com/sl/lamps-batteries-remotes/233380960-Sony-217941401-Large-EyecupExcept-J-Model.html

[Elton]

Hey guys, how do I get the m2t file into After Effects? It won't seem to import. I guess I have to convert it to something first?

Mike

Use MPEG Streamclip or QT Pro Player and convert to a more edit-friendly intra-frame codec. (non-mpeg2 or mpeg4)

I would convert to PhotoJPEG QT 1920x1080 29.97 @ 75% quality. You should be able to bring it into AE with no problems.

[Elton]

Just trying to squeeze in a quick test for all to see until there is time to do more.

We appreciate the raw clip, SamKam! I know how much of a hassle these "little tests" c an be. Again, thanks for going to the trouble. It's a good clip to work with.

[Norbert]

Good question... I shot for a bit locked @1/48 and would toggle through the exposure. I hope it is an aperture control but I cannot tell as of yet.Zoom in on something and keep the background out of focus and see if the background gets sharper when you dial it down or more blurry when you dial it up. If it does, that probably means the EXP button controls the aparture. Another way to test this is to use the EXP button to control the shutter while in aparture priority. If the motion changes when you dial it up and down then it adjusts the shutter.

By the way, does anyone have a problem with auto focus when zooming in and out? Seems like people are experiencing an extremely hunting auto focus while zooming. If this is a problem with all HV20s then I really hope Canon can fix it.

[SamKam]

We appreciate the raw clip, SamKam! I know how much of a hassle these "little tests" c an be. Again, thanks for going to the trouble. It's a good clip to work with.

Thanks for the kind words, Elton. And thanks again for your assistance in getting the m2t clip up for all the "never satisfied" ones to see. Will try to do more tests in the coming days.

[Mark Dog]

i am satisfied and appreciate the time you have taken sam you the man , thanx for sharing your footage and the time taken to give it to us bro

peace n luv

Mark Dog

[SamKam]

All good MDog.
Much love.

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

Use MPEG Streamclip or QT Pro Player and convert to a more edit-friendly intra-frame codec. (non-mpeg2 or mpeg4)

I would convert to PhotoJPEG QT 1920x1080 29.97 @ 75% quality. You should be able to bring it into AE with no problems.

Thanks! I used MPEG Streamclip, hit "convert to mpeg" and it worked like a charm. Very fast, and it knocked it down to 65 MB. Still looks great!

Cheers,

Mike

[Noel Evans]

Incidentally, something I'm noticing while stepping through the clip--a complete lack of bayer pattern artifacts.

Which suprises me, but on another point reinstalls my confidence in the cmos technology.

[SamKam]

Incidentally, something I'm noticing while stepping through the clip--a complete lack of bayer pattern artifacts.

Elton - what are "bayer pattern artifacts"?

[AuditoryVisuals]

They're moire patterns that emerge when you look at fine lines or mesh patterns. I think it's because different photosites are sensitive to different colours and it can create colourful curves in you picture.

I think they have more info at Wikipedia.

[bustak]

I went on B&H last night & ordered my HV20, along w/ a Hoya 43mm polarized filter! :)

I use Panasonic DVC MiniDV tapes for my DVX100b, can I use those for the HV20 in HD mode? Or do I have to buy some of those fancy HD tapes to use w/ this camera? If so can anyone recommend some good tapes?

[Barry_Green]

I use Panasonic DVC MiniDV tapes for my DVX100b, can I use those for the HV20 in HD mode?
Yes you can use any miniDV tape, but obviously the better quality of tape you use, the more resistant your footage should be to dropouts.

[thrang]

Here it is. Many thanks to Elton and jade.

http://www.youngsterproduction.com/videos/hv20%20raw.m2t
Thanks for your post - maybe I've missed it in this thread, but I'm trying to determine how you've captured this - I have the HV-20 and Final Cut Pro on a quad core Intel box - The closest I've come it connecting the camera via firewire and capturing into FCP using the HDV/Apple Intermediate Codec capture preset. Understandably, the file is 1440 x 1080

Your post "raw" file has a resolution of 1920 x 1080 - was this res'd up, or capture with Intensity? Different settings/software?

Tanks for your help...