Trick out your HV20 for $3500 (Canon A1 price)

[Nik Manning]

The Canon A1 has to be the best prosumer camera on the market right now judging by price/performance, but some of the folks here at dvxuser cannot afford it (me) even thou it is priced right. I make my living as a video editor so I can't drop $3500 on something I will maybe use 100 hours a year. So now comes the new starter-cam/b-cam/daaaaaaaaamn-cam. For $1099 I can get in the game and make my own hd content. How would you spend the rest of that money left over from not buying the A1?

HV20-$1100
Intensity Card- $250
Redrock 35mm adapter -$1200
Tripod - $150
Mic - $250
Cheap Lights - $600

Total- $3550

Pretty good and it will get you started.

[Huy Vu]

I think you're spreading yourselves out too thin with this budget.

HV20 doesn't have XLR input so that's another $250 minimum for an adapter. The $250 for the mic doesn't include shockmount & wind protection as well as headphone (Another $250-300). I guess since it's a light camera you can skimp on a smaller tripod so $150 sounds about right. But you're missing the $1350-1600 on a Marshall monitor to use with the M2 as well as a set of lense to go with it. Personally I wouldn't get the M2 at all; it's too much like taking a Ferrari engine and putting it in a Toyota, the expense just isn't worth it.

[siniarch]

Nik,
I'd have to agree with Jade here. Getting a 35mm adapter just adds more money to anything else you get. the lenses which you might want at least 3 go for about 200-300 each. and then you will need more lights because of the light loss. also the camera gets heavier. my hvx I think is 5.5lb stock. with the M2 and the Monitor(home made) and a 180mm lens (large heavy lens) I'm already about 15lb. not including the new batteries for the monitor that I got. so the tripod is not going to cut it. I have a Bogen 501 and I already want to get a different one. You also will want a Follow focus. I don't have one yet, but will get one as soon as I can. probably another 2lbs.
I didn't know all these things when I got my M2, but luckily I have plenty of credit. (ouch) The M2 is awesome and definitely worth the expense including the lenses, lights, tripod, etc... but its a different ballpark with it, than without.

Just my 2 cents.

[Kholi]

Subtract Monitor from the equation-- You can mount the HV20 upside down and get a right-side-up image.

Good lenses will cost you, yeah. Remember that.

Blackmagic Intensity requires a good more than just a PCIe slot. You still need a decent system to run it.

If you're looking for a worthy setup for an HV20, and you must have the adapter, I'd cut the rest of that out to make sure you get great lenses to go with it.

Seeing as how most people would use the HV20 for personal use... why not rent the M2, lights, etc when you get ready to do a real shoot that requires them? Til then, chinaballs, raw HV20.

[jenningsp]

i'm in the process of writing an article about the HV20 and how you can "trick it out" for under the price of other 24p cameras :)
i am going to post it with footage and explinations of how to use the HV20 in the best way possible. so that's after i get the camera and all the extras. the release date of the camera in Australia is usualy a bit later. so i think the article will be done in may.

[siniarch]

Kholi, you can mount the camera upside down, but HD is still hard to focus on a little lcd. unless the camera has a really nice one I'm not aware of or a great focus assist.

[jenningsp]

the camera's LCD has a pixel count of 211,000 - same as the DVX and HVX
but it's 2.6inch and widescreen. so you actually get more used pixels than the HVX. because the HVX has letter boxed widescreen on a 4x3 screen.

the HV20 does have focus assist. it zooms full screen - unlike HVX which is just a box in the center of the screen - and has peaking.

[Nik Manning]

i'm in the process of writing an article about the HV20 and how you can "trick it out" for under the price of other 24p cameras :)
i am going to post it with footage and explinations of how to use the HV20 in the best way possible. so that's after i get the camera and all the extras. the release date of the camera in Australia is usualy a bit later. so i think the article will be done in may.

Can't wait! I will hold off on the 35mm adapter for now. I just rewatched the short "Broken" and they didn't have one so I will acquire it when I need it. Plus it has slightly more depth of field than 1//3 chip cameras.
I will still get the intensity card. I don't plan on capturing uncompressed probably mjpeg for keying.
Also they do have mics that plug directly into the HV20.

[Barry_Green]

the HV20 does have focus assist. it zooms full screen - unlike HVX which is just a box in the center of the screen
Yeah, but you can't use it when recording. If you want to use a 35mm adapter, you're going to NEED a monitor unless the camera (or your subjects) never move during the shot!

[Drew Ott]

The people who own A1s (myself included) need to realize that the people posting these cheap solutions for a nice HV20 set-up are not trying to "beat" the A1. It's not that big of an issue but there are a few threads right now dealing with which camera is a better deal, and they always come down to "different people need different things". It's always fun to argue about specs but I don't want another A! vs. HVX or A1 vs. DVX, etc.

By A1 vs. HVX I don't mean the article I mean the mini feud.

[Huy Vu]

This is some weird Canon civil war.

[Drew Ott]

This is some weird Canon civil war.

You said it better than me.

[Norbert]

I am one of those who wants to buy an HV20 and do the best I can with it simply because I want to know just how well I can do with a cheaper camera. I used to own a DVX100 and that was a nice camera and I learned that a lot of a good image comes from good light, composition, and so on. And those things are completely free to learn.
Now since this camera has the key ingredients to make movies (24p, cine gamma, mic input, etc.), it's the first cheap camera I feel that I can do some acceptable work with.

In other words, not trying to compete with an A1. If I had the money I would go there.

[Nik Manning]

Not trying to compete with the A1 at all I would happily trade a HV20 for a A1.:) It is just that some of us are broke, with limited experience, and we probably will never make our money back buying a A1 or hv20. That is why we start with a hv20.
The HV20 is wife APPROVED!

[LuckyStudio 13]

just ebay your Hv 20 and get the A1

[Jay Stebbins]

I don't see this as a HV20 vs. A1 dispute. But an opportunity for someone new to buy a good camera (HV20) without spending a fortune on the camera itself. Then take the extra cash and start collecting the pieces of a full kit. Fo some one new all the customization of the A1 can be a little overwhelming. The HV20 will allow people to focus on the rest of the skills needed to perfect this craft. Later if things are going well, one could swap out a new A1 or whatever is the rage at that time and move forward.

IF, if that someone buys gear that will work with the HV20 and the A1 the swap is seamless. Seriously, if you can put together a whole kit for a little more than the cost of a prosumer camera and start making pictures now. Then you are way ahead of the game. There are just so many thing you really need to collect in order to capture stunning pictures, including time behind any camera.

Good luck and have fun,
Jay

[Elton]

Well said, Jay. One other thing I'd say is that if someone is simply wanting to get their feet wet with a 35mm adapter and learn the filmmaking skills necessary to deal with shallow DOF and follow focus, etc. then being able to afford the necessary kit, where the camera is just a small part of the equation is pretty cool.

Start with an HV20, and then if your needs expand, get a more professional camcorder. Still, if the intent is to shoot everything through a 35mm photo lens, then an HV20 would probably be a fairly ideal starter camcorder, despite how ridiculously small it is. And if you do move on to an A1, well, you've already got a backup camera and ingest deck.

I know I'll be using the little cam with my future Brevis adapter.

[Dennis Wood]

We ordered an HV20 for testing today :-) Our rails are aleady set up for an inverted mount...so here we go!

http://www.cinevate.com/images/railsinvertsm.jpg

[Elton]

How awesome is that! The low cost Brevis flip! I have a feeling this combo is going to be SCARY in what it delivers for the $. I think the HV20 is going to have less CA issues than the A1, so the combination of a good relatively CA-free photo lens and a CA-free Brevis imaging element could be very potent.

Can't wait to see what you find, Dennis.

[Dennis Wood]

Well, apparently one of our owner's beat me to the punch. This clip entitled HV20_Brevis.mov (http://www.cinevate.com/images/hv20_brevis.mov) was waiting for me this morning on our private ftp :-)

[Darth Bunnykins]

Dennis, how much is that rail system and inverter mount going to cost? And how much more would a follow focus be with it. Too cool.

[prisma]

I am also interseted. how much does the whole package cost?

[Dennis Wood]

Just over $1000 US would fix you up with an inverted HV20 setup. If you were planning to use it on any other larger HD or SD camera, adding the 72mm HD achromat and our 72mm spacer would guarantee complete camera coverage. The rails will support inverted mounts for larger cameras, but you'd need to add in some of our stainless supports and universal rails blocks.

[ProLost]

Subtract Monitor from the equation-- You can mount the HV20 upside down and get a right-side-up image.

But, if I'm not mistaken, mounting the camera upside down still results in an upside-down image to the shooter, since you've corrected the image you're recording, which means it's right-side-up on the LCD—which is upside-down!

I recall this puzzle being agonized over on another thread...

-Stu

[Kholi]

Such a headache. Forget it. Just use a monitor. =P

[Dennis Wood]

Well, you have to know I'll be looking for that LCD flip microswitch on the HV20. The upside down setup is really just to save time in post, and for monitoring with hardware that's not so easy to flip upside down...like the Dell 24" LCD's

Pro, I still have egg on my face from the last flip LCD thread..and you're quite correct..flipping the camera does not fix the LCD issue.

[Barry_Green]

If you film with the camera upside down, your recorded image is upside down.

The Brevis feeds the camera an upside-down image.

If you record an upside-down image upside-down, it's right-side up in the recording and on the LCD.

[Dennis Wood]

Barry, don't hate me for this: http://www.maths.ox.ac.uk/~smithdm/upside.html

[Bryan]

If you record an upside-down image upside-down, it's right-side up in the recording and on the LCD.

But your LCD is upside down, haha.

[Barry_Green]

DOH! Your LCD is upside down, so yes, duh, oops... the recording will be right-side-up but the LCD would be upside down... sorry!

I just use the Letus Flip, and don't have to put up with any of this "flip" stuff, so I didn't think it through properly. Can't wait to see the Brevis "flip" module!

[Kholi]

^^^ Ditto. What's the claim that it can be used on any 35mm adapter? How's that work?

[Dennis Wood]

Barry, I'll admit to being caught on that flip issue myself last year :-)

K, it's modular..meaning that anything that can accept a 72mm thread will work with it. With other adapters, there may be some tweaking to do as we can't predict what optics would be present. It has been a challenge as our first prototype (FS mirror based) was scrapped early due to alignment and dust concerns. That would have been inexpensive, but the optical engineer I'm working with on that project convinced us to go a in a different direction. Even a very tiny error in alignment has a rather unpleasant effect on HD footage. After seeing the Brevis strapped to a truck in a Mexican desert..and this weekend to the outside of a semi-trailer (ask Paul Nordin about it :-) we decided long ago to a modular approach to flip. It also means current Brevis users will not be left with a non-flip dead end and can choose the setup that works best for their work flow, and light efficiency requirement.

We actually have a second project in the works that if succesfull would incorporate a flip within the existing Brevis form factor. The largest issue right now with this second project is fairly tight controls over export of the technology. We're prototyping this solution right now.