24p vs 24pn for a music video

[endeavor]

We'll be shooting a music video for the first time on the HVX and i am curious if anyone could suggest if we should shoot 24p or 24pn...and what is the advantage of one or the other. We will be exporting the final video to an image sequence to take into a Flame, so i'm just curious of what would be best.
Thanks!
Danny

[mjjason]

24PN gives you more time on your P2 cards. Image wise they are the same. So go with 24PN.

[ozduc]

If you are shooting in 720, the 24Pn gives you more time on the card but if you want to shoot 1080 there is no PN mode.

[Fidelio]

If image wise 24PN is on par with 24P, add on to the fact that it consumes less space, what is the purpose of 24P in 720P?

[THoff]

24P is for compatibility with systems that don't support PN. Avid for instance doesn't support it right now. 24PN is not only on par with 24P, it is identical, it simply doesn't include the redundant frames.

[downtownbrown]

What systems allow you to edit 24pn?

[THoff]

FCP, Edius, Premiere with Raylight, Matrox Axio.

[downtownbrown]

Thanks THoff for the response. Do you know what version of fcp(i'm on powerpc) or I also have P.Prov2.0(with raylight is it a specific setting I'm using to capture)...

[THoff]

You need at least FCP 5.0.4, but there are various problems with P2/MXF handling in it and subsequent versions. But by most accounts, FCP 5.1.4 is very solid and the version you should be using.

[Fidelio]

24P is for compatibility with systems that don't support PN. Avid for instance doesn't support it right now. 24PN is not only on par with 24P, it is identical, it simply doesn't include the redundant frames.

Why exactly isn't Avid doing anything about it? And are the redundant frames eventually removed from the 24P footage or do they remain and still look visually the same?

[endeavor]

maybe because alot of the people that use avid go to SD tapestock and then to broadcast..which cannot playback 24fps, but has to insert the flagged frames. i dunno...its all nutty

[Trademark]

I can use 720/24pN in Avid but there are a few audio erros here and there. Fortunetly there is an easy workaround to take care of it: trimming the heads and tails of the bad clips in order to get playback.

[downtownbrown]

I believe I'm 5.0.4 on my powerpc g5...so I'd need to upgrade to the universal version in order to be up to 5.1.4 right...? I'll be at NAB so I'll probably just wait to see where fcp is at. I'm still using my dvx and the hvx is likely what I'll get but I'm doing my homework to be sure I have the pieces to the puzzle...to use and edit the files this cam generates(still like to know if there's anyway to get around using small cards or the firestone that breaks the files down-seems like it makes for more work-isn't there a better way...anyway sorry getting off topic here...)

Thanks again for the info THoff...

[Fidelio]

So... bottom line, is 24PN better than 24P?

[mainstreetprod]

Bottom line is, it is identical quality wise. Just takes up a lot less space. So use it! ( Cannot be used with variable frame rates though)

[THoff]

What cannot be used with variable frame rates?

Both native and non-native modes can be used with variable frame rates. The only difference is that PN recording doesn't require the use of the Framerate Converter, because there are no flagged frames to remove.

[riellyboy]

AXP isn't as flexible as FCP when it comes to frame rates in a project. You can use 24pn, just have to use it in a 24p project. Similarly with the FS100 v3 firmware, you can set it to "QT native" on 720 or 1080 24p and get 24p QTs for import.

[StevieB]

We'll be shooting a music video for the first time on the HVX and i am curious if anyone could suggest if we should shoot 24p or 24pn...and what is the advantage of one or the other. We will be exporting the final video to an image sequence to take into a Flame, so i'm just curious of what would be best.
Thanks!
Danny

Flame can handle an image sequence with or without traditional 3:2 pulldown. Make sure it is an image sequence (targa, tiff, etc.), as Flame won't handle MXF or quicktime. Shooting in 24pn would be best since it saves you space. If you need pulldown added at the end of you Flame session, it's quick and easy to do right before you output to tape or export your file.