saving techniques for not great live gig audio

[wallofbeans]

i shot a live gig in a small club last week. the budget was minimal so not enough to employ a sound recordist and the best option was to get a feed from the sound board recorded direct to my camera. they could only give me a mono feed but the clips im putting together of the gig are for website use only so the audio should sound okay. i recorded this on one channel and my me66 on cam mic to the other as back up.

good thing i did as the sound feed audio is very distorted (well, the vocal and keyboards are, the bass and drums seems fine) even though my recording level was pretty low throughout... im really not entirely sure what happened...?

has anyone got advice on:

1) how i might be able to salvage the sound board feed in some way?

or

2) how i can make the most of the back up audio? can i use fcp to pad it out and boost it a little at least?

i explained the problems to the artisit before the gig and we went ahead aware of them and experimented.. its just a shame the sound board feed didnt work out... next time i get asked to do this kind of thing i shall be insisting on a sound recordist!

thanks all

[timapter]

well at least you learnt the right lesson out of this! ha ha! sorry man... i'm afraid you are pretty screwed, distortion is not fixable, and in this case it seems like the distortion was occurring at the sound desk. you may have simply been gaining down audio that was already distorted.

the me66 i doubt is much better, as its not really a high spl microphone (but maybe it sounds ok) - you'll just have to experiement with mixing the two feeds together, or dropping the desk feed and playing around with the me66 feed (compress, eq, etc)

[wallofbeans]

well at least you learnt the right lesson out of this! ha ha! sorry man... i'm afraid you are pretty screwed, distortion is not fixable, and in this case it seems like the distortion was occurring at the sound desk. you may have simply been gaining down audio that was already distorted.

the me66 i doubt is much better, as its not really a high spl microphone (but maybe it sounds ok) - you'll just have to experiement with mixing the two feeds together, or dropping the desk feed and playing around with the me66 feed (compress, eq, etc)

it seemed to me that the only reason for the distortion was that it was already distorted at the sound desk coz i did everything i could to get the best possible feed... why would they be sending out distorted audio? would that not mean the audio heard in the club was distorted too?

anyway... the me66 audio is much better but not great.. any specific tips on how to improve it any way i can? i dont have a clue what all the audio filters in fcp mean!

[timapter]

uh, you can try compression and some eq. but its hard to explain what everything does. what about it do you want to improve?

they might have been sending distorted audio to the speakers if the speakers were crap and it was very loud. its not uncommon in clubs with more low end systems.

[ozduc]

it seemed to me that the only reason for the distortion was that it was already distorted at the sound desk coz i did everything i could to get the best possible feed...

So did you monitor the audio with headphones at the camera at all?
In this situation if your levels in camera "looked" Ok according to the meters but your sound was distorted, I would bet you had the input set to mic level instead of line level.

[wallofbeans]

So did you monitor the audio with headphones at the camera at all?
In this situation if your levels in camera "looked" Ok according to the meters but your sound was distorted, I would bet you had the input set to mic level instead of line level.


i tried it on LINE at first but had to have the level up full to get any kind signal from the meter (channel 1 only - ch2 was for the on camera back up mic) and then when i switched to MIC i had to set the level really low... i was told that either would work but that set on MIC means i had to control the level and LINE it was controlled for me... i figured that id be okay with MIC if i kept the level really low (ive always been told its better to have too low a level than too high) but it seems to have back fired on me...

i had headphones and was hoping to able to monitor the sound but the place was so loud i could hear much of anything through the headphones at all...

are you telling me i was misinformed aboiut being to use LINE OR MIC when getting an audio feed from a sound board?

thanks

[ozduc]

i figured that id be okay with MIC if i kept the level really low (ive always been told its better to have too low a level than too high) but it seems to have back fired on me...

You figured wrong on this one. By feeding a line level signal to a mic level input you are adding about 50-60db of gain to the signal via the camera mic pre amp. You may be able to adjust your camera level to make it look OK on the meters but the signal is being distorted by the added gain of the mic pre amp.


are you telling me i was misinformed aboiut being to use LINE OR MIC when getting an audio feed from a sound board?

thanks

Yes, I'm afraid so.

[wallofbeans]

You figured wrong on this one. By feeding a line level signal to a mic level input you are adding about 50-60db of gain to the signal via the camera mic pre amp. You may be able to adjust your camera level to make it look OK on the meters but the signal is being distorted by the added gain of the mic pre amp.



Yes, I'm afraid so.


damn it! well, i guess i learnt that the hard way...

any ideas why when i had it set to line the level was so low? if i wanted to get any kind of meter action i had to pump the level all the way up... i thought that LINE emant that i couldnt change the level of signal coming into the camera?

phew.. confused.. annoyed.. but smarter now.. its all coming..

[SMuir]

i had headphones and was hoping to able to monitor the sound but the place was so loud i could hear much of anything through the headphones at all...

In situations like that, high-noise headsets come in quite handy. Check out the Remote Audio HN-7506 (http://www.remoteaudio.com/hn7506.htm). They're not cheap, but they provide much better external sound baffling than the Sony 7506.

Other than that, avoid using mic preamps on a line-level feed. If you can get a nice clean signal with your inputs switched to "line," even with the level controls cranked, use "line."

[SMuir]

any ideas why when i had it set to line the level was so low? if i wanted to get any kind of meter action i had to pump the level all the way up...
Some line levels are lower than others. Consumer gear, for example, uses a lower signal level for line level than does professional gear. What was probbably going on was that the mixer was indeed sending you a low level signal. That's why it is useful to establish a 0 VU reference level when connecting analogue gear.

If possible, get the mixer to feed you a 1kHz line-up tone that corresponds with +0VU on his/her meters. Adjust that to hit -20dB (or -12dB, oppinions vary) on your recorder, and you should be in the ballpark.

Of course, this all assumes that the mixer is using a correct gain structure and consistant levels. Either way, I would still be tempted to back off the cameras levels a touch, and definitely use a limiter.

[ozduc]

damn it! well, i guess i learnt that the hard way...
any ideas why when i had it set to line the level was so low? if i wanted to get any kind of meter action i had to pump the level all the way up...

As SMuir said the level from the mixer was probably low. You definitely need to establish a reference level prior to recording. Depending on the outputs of the mixer being used, sometimes they can adjust the level of the signal they're sending you, without affecting the house level. In this case, if you have the camera gain cranked all the way up and the meters are barely registering, you just need to ask for more level from the mixer.



i thought that LINE emant that i couldnt change the level of signal coming into the camera?


You thought wrong on that one to but you're learning fast. One important thing to remember about recording sound is that you cant rely on your eyes. You have to use your ears:huh:

[wallofbeans]

next time i shall hopefully be getting a sound recordist! they'll be sat in another room recording the sound to DAT as well as feeding me a radio mic feed from their mixer so i have a reference and a back up.

thanks for all the tips guys... i have a much better idea on how to get this right next time i have to work solo again on one of these things...

can i pick up those headphones second hand? ebay maybe?