PDA

View Full Version : My Mini 2K is here!



Mars United
01-25-2007, 04:12 PM
:cheesy:

My SI-2K Mini is at the border awaiting clearance! Will be delivered tomorrow (shouldn't overnight take less than 3 days? - I love FedEx)

So, um ... :cheesy:

I think the LCD touch screen monitor has been shipped with it too, but I'm a little unclear on that. That might come next week.

I've been waiting over a year to buy the HVX200 (and loving these forums) and, damn, that's a great 1/3" camera, and now I'm finally getting it, except that it has been upgraded to an SI-2K Mini!

I am :cheesy:

Kevin Dorsey
01-25-2007, 04:47 PM
Congrats, and keep us updated.
-Kevin

Mars United
01-25-2007, 05:45 PM
Definitely!

MojoTrancer
01-25-2007, 06:08 PM
Yes, keep us updated for sure.

Mars United
01-25-2007, 06:19 PM
I'm actually kinda curious as to how many people are actively interested in this camera. I was hoping to read more about the cam before I bought it, but I may just be the first on my block to have one. ?

I hope I can get a handle on the software quickly and can get some stills or footage up in short order. Either way, I'll post my impressions as they come.

For now, I'm off to see Letters From Iwo Jima (or maybe Blood Diamond). Christmas isn't until tomorrow.

Erik Olson
01-25-2007, 06:27 PM
What glass are you going to use with it? I am very interested to hear back on this.

e

Mars United
01-25-2007, 06:43 PM
What glass are you going to use with it? I am very interested to hear back on this.

e
OK, I'm just out the door, but since you're "very" interested:

I've recently bought a Zeiss 12-120mm Super 16 zoom with macro. You can check out the lens (if it is still posted) at Visual Products' website which I think is simply www.visualproducts.com (http://www.visualproducts.com)

I'm sure I'll be looking into a super wide super 16 prime when I can afford it.

I'll be fitting it this weekend to a Cartoni head and sticks (not sure which one yet, likely the Laser). As far as matte box and FF, I'll have to see what works.

Cheers!

Mars United
01-25-2007, 06:46 PM
By the way, I'm not sure that the Super 16 will suffice, I just hope it will, and was told that it should be sharper than the brand new primes I was looking at. OK, I'm off to Iwo Jima ... :beer:

Mars United
01-26-2007, 08:23 PM
Got it! VERY BUSY!

SI-2K Mini
7" Touch Screen Monitor
noga arm (for monitor)
base plate (Chroziel?)

Spent the day multitasking while learning about the camera/software functions from Ari at Silicon Imaging via a few hours on the phone (thanks Ari!).

I know this will be disappointing, but for now all I can say is: AMAZING! The functionality of this camera, its work flow, etc is just mind blowing. I attached it to my laptop (Dell M90) and recorded straight to the OS drive, no problems. I haven't set up my external drive yet.

Haven't even plugged in the LCD yet.

I had to hold the lens and camera in one hand (no tripod yet) while talking on the phone and operating the laptop with the other. So, today was spent mostly going over the features of the amazing software and camera software interface.

I don't want to comment on the picture yet, but I noticed great DOF and in my dark apartment I really had to try hard to get a noisy image by boosting the gain all the way and aiming at a really dark area. Still, not bad! I think the image is going to absolutely rock!

Sorry, I didn't want to not say anything for those that are interested, but I have to head out. Tomorrow I search for a tripod and head and see if I can get some pics.

I don't promise anything, but if you have any questions I'll do my best.

Cheers! Sorry for the rush job!

Erik Olson
01-27-2007, 06:56 PM
I'm eager to hear back (and see some photos / stills) from this camera.

e

Kevin Wells
01-27-2007, 07:08 PM
I'm anxious to hear more as well. Enjoy the new toy!

Mars United
01-28-2007, 02:03 AM
OK. I posted some stills. Be warned: they are 6 MB each.

IMPORTANT: I was unable to get a tripod and head today, so these grabs were taken from shots where I Held the camera by a 12-120mm lens. It was impossible to keep the image still when zoomed in, so there is motion blur.

ALSO: I didn't get the LCD monitor hooked up today, so my critical focus was done by looking at my laptop monitor 5-10 feet away!

I'm not a professional DP. I hope to hook up with a friend very soon and get some better stills and some clips posted. This is just me fooling around to give myself something to play with while learning the software.

Let me know what you think!

Cheers. :beer:

Oh, yeah, go here to download the SCREEN GRABS (http://www.marsunited.com/grabs/).

PS - my apartment was under lit as well.

BLUESPIDER
01-28-2007, 04:18 AM
See if you can get some video clips up. Looking forward to it.

spidey
01-28-2007, 06:57 AM
how much it cost?

Jason Rodriguez
01-28-2007, 11:03 AM
BTW, Chris,

I'm going to send you a "blank" Speedgrade file for you to mess with.

It will maintain the RAW 10-bit log curve (so you'll be color-correcting from the log file), but it will add the matrix in.

Thanks,

Jason

Mars United
01-28-2007, 11:08 AM
BLUESPIDER: I'm hoping to pick up a tripod/head on Monday, then I'll work on capturing some clips worthy of posting.

Spidey: The camera head cost 13,500 (with PL mount), or, if you just want a C mount it is 12,500. The camera head is VERY small, and runs tethered to a laptop via CAT5. The head has only one port for the CAT5, and a power connector. So, you need to factor in a pretty beefy laptop into the cost. Then there is the touch screen LCD monitor, which is about $800, but I think you have the option of buying a non custom one direct from the manufacturer for $400. Other accessories are normal: base plate and rods, handle, pistol grips, batteries, and of course lens.

Cheers. :)

Erik Olson
01-28-2007, 11:11 AM
That's amazing. Take some pictures of the lump on your kitchen table. I feel like a schoolgirl waiting for a new pair of shoes! Quit teasing.

e

Mars United
01-28-2007, 11:12 AM
Thanks, Jason!

spidey
01-28-2007, 11:15 AM
how you pay for it?

Ari Presler
01-28-2007, 11:20 AM
He paid in US Dollars. But we will accept payment in Yen :-) !

spidey
01-28-2007, 11:24 AM
not that but i was wondering if he used like a payment plan or something man that would be nice if there was payment plan.

Mars United
01-28-2007, 11:29 AM
That's amazing. Take some pictures of the lump on your kitchen table. I feel like a schoolgirl waiting for a new pair of shoes! Quit teasing.

e
Are you referring to the grabs? Despite my disclaimer, I personally really love them.

I REALLY need that tripod and some lights!

And yeah, I don't mean to tease. I wish other people had this camera and had already posted footage and stills. Then I could just ask for advice from others and not worry about the quality of my own shots. Now I'm a little self-conscious of the fact that these will be the some of the first clips/stills that people have seen, and I don't want to post something disappointing that makes it look like the camera's fault.

But YES, more coming soon. Just remember that I'm learning the camera here with no frame of reference. Thanks!

Mars United
01-28-2007, 11:40 AM
not that but i was wondering if he used like a payment plan or something man that would be nice if there was payment plan.
That I can't answer. You would have to talk to Silicon Imaging or your own financial institution. I would think that would be pretty rare in the specialized camera industry ... but you can always enquire.

I lucked out. I've been waiting a year to get the funds for an HVX PLUS package (lights, 35mm adaptor, flip-able monitor, etc etc), and wound up with some extra cash right around the time I was going to buy it. Then I saw the SI-2K. I would LOVE to own the HVX as it is an amazing camera, but c'mon, this is 2/3" and 2K. This is, spec wise, higher than some other well known 2/3" cameras! But it isn't all about specs either. This is the most film like camera I've seen in my research.

I'm babbling.

spidey
01-28-2007, 11:48 AM
man i wish i could come in 13,000 grand lol

MojoTrancer
01-28-2007, 11:55 AM
Are you referring to the grabs? Despite my disclaimer, I personally really love them.

I REALLY need that tripod and some lights!

And yeah, I don't mean to tease. I wish other people had this camera and had already posted footage and stills. Then I could just ask for advice from others and not worry about the quality of my own shots. Now I'm a little self-conscious of the fact that these will be the some of the first clips/stills that people have seen, and I don't want to post something disappointing that makes it look like the camera's fault.

But YES, more coming soon. Just remember that I'm learning the camera here with no frame of reference. Thanks!

Don't worry about it. We're grateful for anything you can share. We all know this is a great camera. We're just hungry for footage :smile:

If you don't have any lights, might I suggest using that huge burning orb hanging in the sky every day? All the light you'll ever need.

Mars United
01-28-2007, 12:07 PM
Don't worry about it. We're grateful for anything you can share. We all know this is a great camera. We're just hungry for footage :smile:

If you don't have any lights, might I suggest using that huge burning orb hanging in the sky every day? All the light you'll ever need.
That huge burning orb, unfortunately, is not so much hanging, as it is sitting on a massive layer of fog. Plus, I have no batteries yet (arriving next week, I think). But yes! I'm dying to go outside and capture some city scenes and head out to the park etc. SOON!!

Erik Olson
01-28-2007, 12:07 PM
I'm just talking about physical photos of your camera itself. I know Ari and his people are there to consult you, but a little "blog" about your exploration of Iridas and the system and lenses and workflow would be great.

This camera has me really intrigued.

e

MojoTrancer
01-28-2007, 12:12 PM
That huge burning orb, unfortunately, is not so much hanging, as it is sitting on a massive layer of fog.

Curses! Foiled! :smile:

Mars United
01-28-2007, 12:14 PM
I'll post some photos of the cam and gear later tonight. My girlfriend took the still cam with her this weekend.

I'll try to get a blog happening too.

joelwsmith
01-28-2007, 12:53 PM
If you don't have batteries right now, how are you powering the camera?

Jason Rodriguez
01-28-2007, 01:08 PM
I would recommend CAT5e or CAT6 cable . . . and especially CAT6 if you're making a longer run (like over 25ft).

joelwsmith
01-28-2007, 01:16 PM
I would recommend CAT5e or CAT6 cable . . . and especially CAT6 if you're making a longer run (like over 25ft).

Jason, are you saying it will take power through CAT6? Or is that a different response?

Mars United
01-28-2007, 01:20 PM
If you don't have batteries right now, how are you powering the camera?
It comes with a wallwart type adaptor. This is part of why it is not so easy to do a whole lot that I would like. I'm fighting with everything!

Soon I'll have MB, FF, tripod, fluid head, and, HOPEFULLY, a few Arri lights.

Still to be shipped from SI: batteries and charger, bridge and upper handle bar, battery holder and plate, and ... a new Ferrari (thanks, guys, you didn't have to!)

But yeah, for now, for testing purposes, I'm on a 50 foot tether with the CAT5 (which seems really solid, psychologically - ie, compared to being tethered via firewire), but a short power cable for the camera itself.

joelwsmith
01-28-2007, 01:23 PM
Still to be shipped from SI: batteries and charger, bridge and upper handle bar, battery holder and plate...

Mars, what was the total cost with all of those extras? What kind of batteries? Bridge(plate)?

Mars United
01-28-2007, 01:28 PM
Hmm. I'm using CAT5e, about 50ft. What is the difference between that and CAT6?

PS - as to the blog suggestion earlier, my partner is going to set up a straight HTML blog page off our site where we can update people on the camera and on the projects that we are involved in.

Also, I'm thinking I might as well wait until I get the camera set up on a tripod with rails and accessories before I take stills of it? I don't mind, but right now it looks like a lens with a metal box at one end.

Mars United
01-28-2007, 01:47 PM
By bridge I'm referring to the means by which they will attach the upper handle (above the cam). The plate is a Chrosziel and the batteries are Dionic 90s.

The camera price is $13,500 (with PL mount. subtract $1000 for C mount) plus the price of a laptop (mine was $4700 CAD) to act as its brain. The LCD monitor is $800, but I think you can get a non-modded version direct from supplier for $400. That's it. The rest are accessories.

I paid a total of about $20,000 US (not including lens and laptop, of course).

The software including Premiere, Prospect 2K, and Speedgrade is about $2400 and the batteries (3) and dual charger total about $2600.

So, those aren't really costs specific to this camera. Those AB batteries are expensive, and so is the charger.

Lduke32
01-28-2007, 03:53 PM
Ari, why is Mars United able to post photos of the Mini and related gear (lcd, mounts, etc.) but Silicon Imaging is not putting up any photos (via their own website or message boards). Early Adopters are quite interested in seeing what they get for $13K+? Seems your holding back on making a big marketing splash. Any thoughts on this release strategy? Thx

Ari Presler
01-28-2007, 07:13 PM
Actually, we havnt been keeping the new cameras in our own hands long enough to shoot with them. However, Jason and David Newman will be showing our first public footage at the Hollywood Post Alliance on Thursday(http://www.hpaonline.com/).

I think having real users shooting and using the camera adds to the credibility of the camera and its capability. No smoke and mirrors. No staged shots or renders. No secret tests in the lab. No preprocessing of the data. Just real world images from real users. The pictures speak for themselves!

Jason Rodriguez
01-28-2007, 09:45 PM
Hi Chris,

I sent you a PM with the link to the new .look file for you to use as a reference.

Mars United
01-28-2007, 10:30 PM
Thanks, Jason! I've been meaning to ask you how to use it, but I'm stubbornly trying to figure it out myself. OK. I give up. How do you use it. If I understand correctly, it is an image to use as a referrence so I can make other .look files from it, but, I can't open it in Speedgrade.

Jason Rodriguez
01-29-2007, 04:56 AM
BTW, Chris, please re-download the .zip file, I forgot two LUT curves that need to go into it for it to work correctly in Speedgrade. Place the two LUT curves in the LUT directory in the Speedgrade OnSet folder. Place the .look file in that zip in the /Data directory of your SiliconDVR folder.

To use Speegrade, first, do a Save Image with SiliconDVR to export the DPX file you will use as the reference file.

Next, open Speedgrade, *not* the .look file (double-clicking .look files don't open Speedgrade, they register them with CineForm on a machine that doesn't have the .look installed/registered-this is so CineForm knows how to find the .look file)

Next, go into the file browser in Speedgrade and open your DPX image.

Once in the main interface of Speedgrade, go into your .look browswer at the bottom of the screen and surf to your /Data folder for SiliconDVR. You should see the .look files appear.

Before modifying one of the existing .look files, duplicate it . . .. Speedgrade modifies the file on the disk as you adjust (so there's no need to save a file after it's creation), so if you start tweaking, you'll end up modifying the .look file and having no way of going back.

Also hit the "s" key to bring up the settings. Under the .look settings make sure you are set to 64x64x64 instead of 8x8x8.

Once you have make your new .look file and it's setup the way you like, quit Speedgrade (or click off the .look file in the look browser), and re-open Gig-e app. In the SET LOOK directory, import the .look file.

For more information you should probably read the Speedgrade documentation.

Thanks,

Jason

Jason Rodriguez
01-29-2007, 04:57 AM
CAT6 has more data stability for gigabit transfers, that's all.

Jason Rodriguez
01-29-2007, 06:19 AM
Also Chris, the .look file is an ASCII file, not an image file . . . you import an image file (in our case a 10-bit DPX file) into Speedgrade, and the .look file contains the description of the modifiers to the image file to make it "look" like something else. The .look file is the 3D LUT, not an image.

BTW, you have to make sure that your 3D LUT is a 64x64x64 sized LUT, we don't support 8x8x8 LUT's since those are not high-enough precision for high-quality results.

Mars United
01-29-2007, 11:19 AM
OK, I'm off today to try to find a tripod/fluid head. If I'm successful I'll post some pics of the set up.

THANKS Jason for all the help and info. I'll try downloading that when I get back. I appreciate it. Cheers!

Mars United
01-30-2007, 12:17 AM
Went shopping today. Got a Cartoni Focus fluid head and Chrosziel matte box and Cartoni 2 stage tripod. The follow focus was $1700 so I politely declined.

I should have some footage uploaded tomorrow night, but here are some still of the Mini with some new clothes.

MojoTrancer
01-30-2007, 12:29 AM
Thats a lean, mean fighting machine :smile:

Mars United
01-30-2007, 01:00 AM
I'm pretty pleased. :) I'm even more pleased that the lens is now stabalized enough to shoot with! The matte box doesn't quite fit my lens, so I have to track down an odd sized adapter, or rig something myself to keep the light from bouncing from behind, off a filter, and back into the lens.

I'm also not so sure that I like that the LCD is mounted directly onto the camera block. That will change when I get the rest of the rig shipped from Silicon Imaging.

Cheers!

Soundloop
01-30-2007, 01:59 AM
That's so sweet..

Lduke32
01-30-2007, 05:16 AM
I'm pretty pleased. :) I'm even more pleased that the lens is now stabalized enough to shoot with! The matte box doesn't quite fit my lens, so I have to track down an odd sized adapter, or rig something myself to keep the light from bouncing from behind, off a filter, and back into the lens.

I'm also not so sure that I like that the LCD is mounted directly onto the camera block. That will change when I get the rest of the rig shipped from Silicon Imaging.

Cheers!

Thanks Mars United. Looks great. Looking forward to the footage.

So how much have you invested thus far?
Mini $13,000, Dell Laptop $3,000, Matbox $300, Tripod $700, Lenses ?
Total Cost $17,000+?

What else am I missing or mispriced? Thanks

Jason Rodriguez
01-30-2007, 06:23 AM
He's missing the Steadicam Flyer :) :)

Jason Rodriguez
01-30-2007, 06:34 AM
BTW, you might want to use a piece of gaffe tape or something to constrain that gig-e cable to the tripod . . . you don't want direct strain on that connector . . . the connector itself is actually quite robust, but if somebody yanks on it really hard it could damage the RJ-45. The board that the RJ-45 is on is not the sensor board, so you won't be screwing that part up, but the gigabit board is still not "free" if you did damage it.

Even the 12-bit hirose, while considered a strong "locking" connector, can, with enough force, be pulled from the board. Again, you won't ruin your sensor, but you can damage the gigabit board.

Erik Olson
01-30-2007, 11:06 AM
Ari,

That's what I'm talking about. I'm sure that Chris is pleased with how incredibly compact the system is.

The Iridas touchscreen control monitor is simply brilliant - I cannot wait to see more stills of this thing in action! We've gotten to a point of maximum density of buttons versus space within the shrinking professional video form-factor, so I'm glad to see that one mfg. has finally given us the next generation of cameras with functions consolidated into one intuitive central interface.

Jason or Ari, can you talk a little more about the speedgrading functions. How will I use those in a fast-paced environment like a music video or commercial shoot? What does this speedgrade function give me that I would otherwise do in post?

e

Mars United
01-30-2007, 11:08 AM
Thanks Mars United. Looks great. Looking forward to the footage.

So how much have you invested thus far?
Mini $13,000, Dell Laptop $3,000, Matbox $300, Tripod $700, Lenses ?
Total Cost $17,000+?

What else am I missing or mispriced? Thanks
You can buy a matte box for $300, and tripod for $700, those are choices you have to make according to your budget and needs, however:

SI-2K Mini - $13,500 USD (with PL mount)
Dell M90 Laptop - $4700 CAD
Cartoni Focus Fluid Head and Tripod Combo- $2100 CAD
Chrosziel Matte Box - $750 CAD (not bad for a Chrosziel!)
Rods Adapter - $160 CAD (for supporting MB)
Zeiss 12-120mm Zoom lens - $8,000 CAD
Xenarc (modded) LCD Touch Screen Monitor - $800 USD
Chrosziel Base Plate and Rods - $590 USD
Software Prospect 2K, Speedgrade, Premiere Pro - $2400 USD

I won't do the addition or convert CAD to USD, but you get the idea. Most of that stuff isn't the camera, though. You need software, a computer, rods and plates, tripod, etc etc to run any cam. But, you asked.

I've also decided to buy a lot of what could easily be rented. In fact, for a while I will rent a follow focus when I need it rather than pay $1700 right now. But, I do want my own small arsenal of lights, however, I'll rent an HMI should I need one (plus someone who knows how to use it).

You could get MUCH cheaper lenses and cut costs in other areas as well.

I still have $2600 worth of batteries and charger on the way, battery holder and plate, and a handle and such for the camera. So, I'm not out of the woods yet.

I'm doing things the wrong way. I think most pros would RENT.

:happy:

Mars United
01-30-2007, 11:10 AM
BTW, you might want to use a piece of gaffe tape or something to constrain that gig-e cable to the tripod . . . you don't want direct strain on that connector . . . the connector itself is actually quite robust, but if somebody yanks on it really hard it could damage the RJ-45. The board that the RJ-45 is on is not the sensor board, so you won't be screwing that part up, but the gigabit board is still not "free" if you did damage it.

Even the 12-bit hirose, while considered a strong "locking" connector, can, with enough force, be pulled from the board. Again, you won't ruin your sensor, but you can damage the gigabit board.
Thanks, Jason! I'll definitely do that. I still have to download that .look blank stuff and figure that out. Cheers! :beer:

Mars United
01-30-2007, 11:16 AM
Ari,

That's what I'm talking about. I'm sure that Chris is pleased with how incredibly compact the system is.

The Iridas touchscreen control monitor is simply brilliant - I cannot wait to see more stills of this thing in action! We've gotten to a point of maximum density of buttons versus space within the shrinking professional video form-factor, so I'm glad to see that one mfg. has finally given us the next generation of cameras with functions consolidated into one intuitive central interface.

Jason or Ari, can you talk a little more about the speedgrading functions. How will I use those in a fast-paced environment like a music video or commercial shoot? What does this speedgrade function give me that I would otherwise do in post?

e
I know you're addressing this to Ari and Jason, but I'll chime in on the interface. It is so simple and straight forward it isn't funny. All functions are accessible via three main screens: "preview/record", "play", and "utility". The buttons are large and clear and after playing for a little bit, you zip around the interface really fast. NICE! And wait until you see the features!

Jason Rodriguez
01-30-2007, 12:54 PM
BTW, "Speedgrade OnSet" is a program from IRIDAS for on-set color-correction and "look" creation. You can see more at www.speedgrade.com (http://www.speedgrade.com/onset/index.html).

The point of the IRIDAS workflow is that you can make the camera a "blank slate" to create the color-correction effect you want in-camera . . . or create the shooting "stock" you want. For instance, you can create your own low-contrast look if you want to shoot that way, or you can create a "wamer" look, or something "cooler", etc. Whatever you would have done in color-correction, or what you would have done tweaking a camera menu to get the look from the camera you want, you just save our a still frame from the camera, color-correct it to look exactly like what you want, and then load the resulting 3D LUT from Speedgrade back into the camera . . . the camera is now shooting WYSIWYG with the color-corrected image in Speedgrade.

So for instance, with a music video, if you want a radical look, rather than being surprised in post, make the look on set, shoot with it, light it so that it "looks" good, and you don't have to be surprised in post . . . you know what you're shooting before you get there. You producer can see dailies immediately straight from the set with the appropriate color-correction already applied (or at least something close so they're not wondering what your artistic intent is going to be and second-guess you). Your DP and director can effectively communicate using visual tools, not verbal explanations, the artistic intent for a shot, and in the end nobody is surprised by what they're getting when it comes to exposure and color.

IRIDAS Speedgrade Onset opens up the doors for a number of possibilities . . . but the most important is that no matter what you do, every "look", and WB setting, etc. in the camera using CineForm raw is all metadata . . . no information from the RAW file is ever clipped, and as a result, you never loose information, and you always are in contact with the RAW "latent" digital negative straight from the camera's sensor, just like you would have on a high-end DSLR in a program like Aperature or Lightroom. Since we're doing all the work at the codec level though, we're not locked into one program as is the case with Aperture or Lightroom. And gone are the days of fighting the baked-in default "look" of a camera . . . you have total and complete access to everything that the sensor head delivered at the point of capture, and you can manipulate it accordingly.

So like I said, if you want a radical look, you can do that with Speegrade, or you can create a low-contrast, wide-dynamic range look to suite whatever shooting/post-color correction style you want. It's all about enabling maximum flexibility and creativity for the end-user.

Ari Presler
01-30-2007, 09:38 PM
Here is the user interface for .look selection from SET LOOK button.

You can quickly switch between the 4 active looks. You can change the active look(s) at anytime by clicking on the one you want to change and browsing to another look file on a local drive or anywhere on the network (remember...we are IT-centric). Any look used during a project is automatically duplicated and stored in the project folder which contain your film clips and then will always travel with your removable media.

For those who may have seen previous UI photos will notice we have now combined the meters on the main screen with Audio Level, HDD Available and RAM buffer usage.
http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Gallery/Look%20scr.jpg

Previously you would click on the meters to cycle between them
http://siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Images/SiliconDVR_Interface_Main.jpg

spidey
01-31-2007, 05:07 AM
fuckin wow.... too bad im poor i cant just pay up like that. I could do a monthly thing but man....

Erik Olson
01-31-2007, 08:42 AM
The "Overland Films Look" being poorly-lit reality?

:cheesy:

I can light... really I can! I swear, my electrician is starting to feel like a sound guy. Uh, oh... lights? Yeah, I guess we should have some - how long is it going to take?

Ari, that is amazing. So, like the MXFs we're accustomed to using the HVX, the SI RAW data resides on the drives, unaltered, while you manipulate the AVIs with SpeedGrade on-set? Did you say that there is no rendering required to make this happen in real-time?! I can't fathom not having to render everything out to see the grading?

What happens when you get into the editing of a project with the full-resolution (1/4 size proxies)? Is all the Speedgrade (metadata?) carried right into the timeline? Is the AVI effectively a negative or would you call that the underlying RAW data, where effects are applied to the rendered master only (in whatever format that takes)?

I'm trying to bridge the concept with my background in film workflow. I guess the short question is, do we ever conform the negative (original RAW files)?

e

Jason Rodriguez
01-31-2007, 09:01 AM
For the IRIDAS stuff, please reference our workflow chart here (this is on our website . . . there's a lot of information there):

http://siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Images/IridasColorManagementPipeline.jpg

Basically what you looking at is you're shooting the scene with the SI-2K. You save out a DPX reference image (using the "Save Image" command on the front-page there which saves out a DNG, DPX, BMP, and JPG).

You then import this DPX file into Speedgrade OnSet. You color-correct the DPX (which is a RAW file in 10-bit log of the scene that the camera saw) file so that you get the color looking exactly the way you want it to for whatever effect you wanted.

You then take the .look file (which is a 3D LUT) from Speedgrade which describes all the color transformations you did, and import that back into SiliconDVR (the name of our software). That "look" now resides on the camera, and what you see in the camera screen is WYSIWYG with what you saw in Speedgrade OnSet.

When you save out an AVI or QT file, the metadata is also saved along-side the AVI/QT. When you edit with the AVI or QT, you still see the exact same "look" that you saw on-set in Speedgrade. Since this is metadata, it can be changed at any point in time.

The final "conform" (like cutting your negative), is when you render out of the RAW file format into a delivery format, or some other format that doesn't support RAW data. So for instance, after you're all done editing, you will render out to another format for DVD or digital projection, etc. Those formats of course will not support the metadata that we have in CineForm RAW.

Also if you are exporting to another editing system that doesn't natively support Quicktimes or AVI's, i.e., the big Discreet stuff or Quantel, etc., then you're also going to have to conform you footage at that point too.

joelwsmith
01-31-2007, 11:31 AM
As far as interface, what types of video scopes/meters are there?

RGB parade? Waveform/Vector? I see an RGB/luminance histogram.

In other words, is there a way to set a 18% gray card to 50%? Would you do that through the per-channel histogram?

Jason Rodriguez
01-31-2007, 12:23 PM
There is a spot-meter/loupe (you can see the button in the lower left-hand corner), so you just place that right over your grey card (it has a 4x zoom in so you can pick out very small details in a scene) and dial it in to 50% . . . no need to guess where to look in the frame trying to read a vectorscope or waveform (which covers the whole frame).

Also we have a false-color metering mode that gives you an overall luminance distribution in the frame (sort of like a tempurature meter), so you can see what is in the shadows, mid-tones, and highlights with the glance of an eye . . . you can see exactly what pixel is exposed to what range of values without any second guessing involved.

And then yes, there is a per-channel histogram for you to see the overall channel distribution and how you are exposing the image relative to the entire bandwidth of the A/D converter.

Jason Rodriguez
01-31-2007, 12:26 PM
BTW, you can also do some nifty tricks with the Spot Meter/Loupe, using it as a color-picker for white-balance for instance.

So no need to have to stand with somebody showing a white-card to the whole camera frame if you don't want to-do that . . . just pick the object in the frame you want to white-balance off of, and then hit "SET WHITE" and it's done.

Jason Rodriguez
01-31-2007, 12:33 PM
One more thing . . . Rec709 actually places an 18% grey card at 40% Luminance, not 50% (i.e., 40IRE), so if you're exposing the grey-card to 50% Luma, beware that you are loosing almost a full f-stop over overhead shooting room.

I know a lot of people like to-do that, but just noting that you are actually "over-exposing" the camera at that point, and if you're clipping highlights, you should probably come back down a bit . . . exposing per the Rec709 spec is not what we would consider "under-exposing" a stop to save the highlights . . . we're just noting the specification for the Rec709 standard, and that's how we've calibrated the camera's ISO.

So for instance, we say the ISO rating of the camera is between 320 and 400 if you expose per Rec709 . . . if you expose 18% to 50%, you'll find the effective ISO of the camera is around 250 or 200.

Now of course you can treat this like a DSLR or even film . . . lower ISO's mean that you're actually getting less noise and more data . . . you're "exposing to the right" . . . but I just wanted to warn people should they try to reduplicate our numbers, that you should use an ISO of between 320 and 400 for exposing the camera, and that will place and 18% grey card in the RAW 10-bit log data stream at around 40% Luma, not 50% Luma.

hawaj
02-02-2007, 06:38 PM
SI at home, me drool drool :)
It look awesome that simple setup lens with noga and LCD screen!

Now you got your personal clean, neutral canvas to paint on!
Lucky you :beer:

Kevin Wells
02-02-2007, 07:45 PM
I'm ready to see some footage! Let's see it

Mars United
02-02-2007, 08:35 PM
Anyone interested in a 267 MB .avi file containing a few meager seconds of SI Mini footage? It is uncompressed 1080p. Basically a tilt up from a book to a flower, which I edited for the sake of file size.

I had my New HD crash and all the footage was lost. I spent 6 hours outside shooting and I'm not set up yet to do simultaneous back ups. Anyway, I'm in the process of seeing if I can recover more.

This clip is the only one where I used +12 db of gain, so it is noisy. It also has an extreme .look file applied.

Let me know, or else I will wait to see if I can put together more.

I tried compressing a smaller movie in Premiere, but it looked horrible.

hawaj
02-02-2007, 08:59 PM
yea I am interested, you can put it at Flyupload.com

Mars United
02-02-2007, 09:12 PM
Thanks, hawai, uploading now. I'm losing connection on my server, so we'll see how Flyupload does.

MojoTrancer
02-02-2007, 09:27 PM
yeah I'd love to see it as well.

Mars United
02-02-2007, 09:52 PM
OK. I'll try. Upload to Flyupload stalled at 2%. I time out on my own server. After my girlfriend is finished with her Skype call, I'll hook up the Ethernet cable and see if that helps.

hawaj
02-03-2007, 05:35 AM
Thanx Mars. Yep, Skype eats some traffic. Cant wait to put your footage in my Quantel.
Footage of Vancouver in dusk will be nice too ;)

Mars United
02-03-2007, 09:03 PM
OK. Uploaded the only clip I could salvage, sorry. And ironically, it is the only clip I shot at +12 db (I like to keep it at -3db or 0). I was just testing out how far I could push the thing until it snapped. Also note that I was playing with a surreal .look file.

Also, I just did a test download and the file stutters on my computer, even though the original doesn't. I have no idea how that could be, unless the FTP client used some kind of compression???

This is a huge download for what you get, ie, 3 seconds of noisy image. But if you want to download it, I'd love to hear your feedback and I'll definitely shoot a bunch more on Monday.

Download and right click to save: (edit: refresh the page if you don't see it)

http://www.shockstream.com/si2k/

Cheers.

joelwsmith
02-03-2007, 09:53 PM
How is the footage 267 MB for 3 seconds? Did you export it as uncompressed or something?

It doesn't make sense, SI and Cineform are spec'ing the Cineform codec as recording/holding 1 hour/40 GB.

If 3 seconds is 250+ MB that would equal 1 hour/300+ GB. That's a big difference. It sounds like uncompressed from the file size. I hope my math is wrong, or that the file is uncompressed.

Mars United
02-04-2007, 03:26 AM
Sorry, I just meant that as a rough "you may not want to download this 'cause it's so short" type of 3 seconds. It is actually 10 seconds.

It also may be that the finished movie is adding metadata when rendering, making the finished export bigger than the "negative". Just a guess as I don't really know how that works. Cheers.

hawaj
02-04-2007, 05:27 AM
oops looks I cant to play or decode your footage without Cineform CFHD decompressor!

David Newman
02-04-2007, 09:01 AM
The CineForm decoder is free is you install the trial of any of our software, you can then uninstall and request that the decoder remains. The easiest install for this is using Connect HD. Note: this bit-stream is about 26MB/s (it is not uncompressed but lightly compressed CFHD) which is rather high given the gain that was applied to the image. All this means is you will need a modern PC to play it smoothly, my old 3Ghz P4 could only manage 21-22fps. If you do have playback issues, use this tool (http://www.cineform.com/downloads/PlaybackControls.zip) to control the decoding resolution.

joelwsmith
02-04-2007, 10:46 AM
Note: this bit-stream is about 26MB/s (it is not uncompressed but lightly compressed CFHD) which is rather high given the gain that was applied to the image.
David, why is the data rate so high? Everyone's been saying 2K/24p Cineform at the "highest" data rate would run 13MB/s. Why is this clip double that rate?

Metadata wouldn't add that much, would it?

David Newman
02-04-2007, 11:13 AM
You are confusing CineForm RAW (8-15MB/s) with CineForm Intermediate (15-30MB/s/) RAW only needs to encode 1/3 the data of a 4:4:4 full RGB demosaic that occurs when the image is developed. This 25+MB/s image is after 4:4:4 developing which cooks in the demosaic and 3D-LUT, this is normal although datarates for not gained up images would be around 20MB/s.

joelwsmith
02-04-2007, 11:32 AM
Okay, now it makes sense. So would actually be editing in RAW or Intermediate? Is that where the 4 simultaneous real-time streams comes from?

20-25 MB/s x 4?

David Newman
02-04-2007, 11:54 AM
We can edit many channels of either on a fast PC. For RAW channels you will have the greatest flexibility by editing CineForm RAW.

Jason Rodriguez
02-04-2007, 11:14 PM
BTW, Chris,

If you're going to shoot at +12db, you should re-set your black calibration for best results . . . I'm looking at your images and they are noisier than they need to be since it does not appear as though you reset your black calibration after setting +12db gain.

Also resetting the black calibration will remove any hot pixels that appear at the +12db setting.

hemophilia
02-05-2007, 01:19 AM
David--

As a windows user (a land where generally speaking the more software you install, the worse your computer performs), I gotta say that installing and uninstalling an unnecessary piece of software, only to use one component in it, really stinks.

Plans to modify the installer to allow people just to choose to install the one little piece they need?

David Newman
02-05-2007, 08:50 AM
Yes we plan to do that, however Connect HD is a very small application and it will not slow down your PC -- it only installs the decoder, encoder, and conversion DShow components for HDLink, nothing else.

Mars United
02-06-2007, 06:00 PM
OK. 1080p mode. 24fps, obviously. Reset the blacks as Jason advised. Homemade .look file.

17 MB (pretty compressed), one minute.

http://www.shockstream.com/si2k/

Comments and questions welcome.

Erik Olson
02-06-2007, 06:12 PM
Mars,

That looks awesome - the poinsettia is insane looking. Weird though, the WMV crashes at 41 seconds every time on my P4 laptop.

e

Mars United
02-06-2007, 06:21 PM
Thanks! This one runs smooth on my system, but it has been a real issue trying to compress something that did the original justice, but wasn't 6 GB. I wonder why that is?

hemophilia
02-07-2007, 01:09 AM
Thanks Mars--

Runs smooth here... seems like about the right level of compression for showing here.

Very interesting stuff to see. Keep 'em coming.

-Kevin

Jason Rodriguez
02-07-2007, 06:25 AM
Hey Chris,

Are you using WM9-HD? For some reason I can't get it to play back on my Mac even though I have the flip-factory plug-in for QT installed (giving me the missing codec error) . . . i.e., all the WMV's on our website playback nicely in QT on the Mac . . . maybe with the file-size issue you might not be using the right codec?

Jason Rodriguez
02-07-2007, 06:34 AM
Downloaded it on a PC (well, MacPro running bootcamp) . . . played back fine . . . so kinda weird it wouldn't playback on my Mac with the telestream plug-in.

I really like the look of the footage . . . It's got some nice, rich colors too, like a nice DSLR shot :)

If you need any more help making .look files, please post away, I'm here to help :)

steff
02-07-2007, 08:27 AM
Congratulations Mark :)
The footage is really cool! Can you make some 2K shooting? I'm curios about how it's moving and how big it is. Anyway this one minute movie seems to be a lot shorter than I expected: just 1G/hour?!!! What do you say about that Jason? Wasn't normal to be about 40 G/hour?

Jason Rodriguez
02-07-2007, 08:41 AM
Normal CineForm RAW is around 40GB/hr . . . the 17MB clip you downloaded was only WMV compressed . . . 1GB/hr would be 1/10th the data-rate of HDV!

We are by no means that compressed. You're not looking at CineForm RAW, but a highly compressed web-movie (which still looks pretty good).

Mars United
02-07-2007, 10:47 AM
Hey Chris,

Are you using WM9-HD? . . . maybe with the file-size issue you might not be using the right codec?
Jason, here is how I encode the video from Premiere:

File>Export>Adobe Media Encoder

The settings:

WMV
Entire Sequence
Preset: Custom
1280x960
FPS= Same as Source

Video noise reduction= OFF
Video Codec = Windows Media Video 9 Advanced Profile
Interlacing = NO
Number of encoding passes = ONE
Bit Rate Mode = Constant
Pixel Aspect Ratio = Square

Max Bit Rate = 2,480.90
Image Quality = 100

Keyframe Interval = 5 seconds

Buffer = Default
Audiences = Compressed.

Do you have any advice on a different way to do this, or changes in the settings? I know you can instead choose:

File>Export>Movie, and then change the settings from there, which seem to be different options. Thanks.

Mars United
02-07-2007, 10:58 AM
Congratulations Mark :)
The footage is really cool! Can you make some 2K shooting? I'm curios about how it's moving and how big it is. Anyway this one minute movie seems to be a lot shorter than I expected: just 1G/hour?!!! What do you say about that Jason? Wasn't normal to be about 40 G/hour?
Thanks, steff. I was going to go out and grab some shots of jet planes coming in for a landing today (and cut it with other various outdoor shots: city view from a mountain, ocean, parks etc..) but it is raining and grey outside. Tomorrow is supposed to be better, so hopefully I'll head out with a friend and we'll do that Thursday.

I'll post back when I upload more stuff. Oh, I have a 3 MB file of fast-mo footage. Nothing special, but if people want to see it I can post it.

steff
02-07-2007, 10:58 AM
Now, I come home Jason :) I have the trial version of the Prospect installed and I tought that I played the cineform... without looking at properties... so, the results are better... if this is the compressed version I'm asking myself how is the original or RAW DNG... can you post one these Mark? Than you.

MojoTrancer
02-07-2007, 11:15 AM
Very nice footage. Every time I see a clip from this camera, I just want more.

I want one so badly!!!

Jason, will you guys accept some kind of indentured servitude to pay off a camera? :)

Mars United
02-07-2007, 11:34 AM
To be honest, Stef, I don't know how to grab a RAW image from Premiere. If I choose "export frame" it exports a .bmp with the .look applied. If I figure it out, I will post it.

Jason Rodriguez
02-07-2007, 11:46 AM
Hi Chris,

Right at this moment, to export a RAW frame, use After Effects . . . just import the AVI and export a DPX file. AE right now doesn't support looks, and won't read the white-balance, so you'll get as RAW as you can possibly get from the camera (i.e., 10-bit log and completely uncorrected).

One thing to keep in mind though is that I don't think you have our advanced demosaic algorithm (maybe you do, I just can't remember) you just have the default bilinear or 5x5, so if there are some artifacts from demosaicing in the DPX output, that's something that can change with a better algorithm (that we provide).

BTW, this AE trick is just temporary . . . David is making much more comprehensive controls that will allow you to get back to the RAW source data and manipulate the AVI metadata . . . and looks in AE will be supported soon . . . so again, this is just a temporary short-fix if you want to see what a raw, uncorrected frame looks like.

Also because a RAW frame will have no matrix, the colors will be a bit off and need to be corrected and saturated. A 3x3 matrix transform is not a set of curves though! You're actually changing the RGB cube shape, akin to the Channel Mixer in Photoshop or After Effects . . . so don't be fooled into thinking that re-doing the matrix by hand is easy . . . but it's nice to see what a RAW frame looks like. Just don't be alarmed if you're not able to color-correct to the perfect colors you want without a pre-matrix'd image.

Jason Rodriguez
02-07-2007, 11:49 AM
Also Chris,

If you want to post a portion of a CineForm RAW file, just download VirtualDub, and set the program for the "DirectStream" mode so that it won't process/render any footage . . . it will just do a data dump. Now just select the in and out point that you would like, and export that segment of RAW into a new, smaller AVI file.

Jason Rodriguez
02-07-2007, 11:51 AM
I just use the standard 1280x720/24P WMHD profile in the Adobe Media Converter and increase the bit-rate to around 8Mb/s (megabit/second, not megabyte/second).

Also I usually use two-pass.

Mars United
02-07-2007, 12:53 PM
Hmmm. I don't have After Effects. I want to get the Production Bundle, but it includes Premiere Pro, which I already have. Hmm.

Jason Rodriguez
02-07-2007, 01:03 PM
Well, don't worry about it . . . it's only a short-term solution as CineForm is working on full RAW metadata support in AE, so this "trick" won't work for long. But you will have a control panel in Premiere Pro that can turn off all metadata descriptors for a file, so you can theoretically get to the "true" RAW data that way . . . although you will never, ever be capable of getting "true" RAW data if a demosaic algorithm is involved since that converts the RAW bayer into RGB . . . so to see RAW correctly, it will always have to be rendered somehow and in some form . . . but at least you will be capable of modifiying all the metadata and color information associated with a file, so it's a sort of "baseline uncorrected" image format that all the other color corrections are stacked on top of include the white-balance, and the matrix and any gamma correction embedded in the "look".

Mars United
02-07-2007, 02:29 PM
Jason, how do you change the .look file while in Premiere, ie, shoot in one .look, then apply another when you render. Or, can you?

Jason Rodriguez
02-07-2007, 04:23 PM
Yes Chris,

You can change your .look files by going into the playback preferences of the timeline (it's on the 3 RGB circles in the playback area under the main program window), and in the File Metadata button (lower left-hand corner), select a different .look file.

For a better understanding, see David Newman's WMV file he posted here (http://www.cineform.com/downloads/DemoCineFormRAW-WIP.wmv).

Mars United
02-08-2007, 01:35 PM
Yes Chris,

You can change your .look files by going into the playback preferences of the timeline (it's on the 3 RGB circles in the playback area under the main program window), and in the File Metadata button (lower left-hand corner), select a different .look file.

For a better understanding, see David Newman's WMV file he posted here (http://www.cineform.com/downloads/DemoCineFormRAW-WIP.wmv).
Cool, thanks. It seems that when it can't find a look file that is listed (maybe it has been moved or whatever) the Cineform plug in freezes Premiere and I have to control/alt/del. Aside from that hassle, it seems pretty good.

yochua
02-09-2007, 02:01 PM
OK. 1080p mode. 24fps, obviously. Reset the blacks as Jason advised. Homemade .look file.

17 MB (pretty compressed), one minute.

http://www.shockstream.com/si2k/

Comments and questions welcome.


Great looking footage.
Great setup too. I could use about $10,000-$15,000 more worth of goodies, but I guess we all can.
Josh

Mars United
02-09-2007, 02:32 PM
Thanks Josh. Yeah, I'm itching to take this camera out for a more serious spin. I'm just ironing out a few issues. Cable converters, lens support etc.

Must have been nice for you to have had this beast on a real set! And, yeah, the $$$ for gear never ends.

Cheers. :beer:

Mars United
02-16-2007, 03:20 PM
OK. Just posted a second movie. Heading out today to shoot more. I really compressed this for FTPing and in some spots the compression shows more than others. I was blown away by the 2K resolution in the original files.

Obviously I've had a bit of fun with pushing the colors to extremes in some shots.

http://www.shockstream.com/si2k/

Cheers. :beer:

hemophilia
02-16-2007, 04:34 PM
That shot at 0:49 looks great. Then again... I'm more looking for something that shows the clarity and color range of the camera, etc.... rather than the zany colored stuff.

What's up with the vignetting though?

-Kevin

MojoTrancer
02-16-2007, 05:11 PM
Some great shots in there. A good study in how far the camera's image can be pushed in post.

Mars United
02-16-2007, 05:12 PM
What's up with the vignetting though?

-Kevin

Don't know exactly. The cam was being buffeted by the wind so we removed the MB at one point and starting getting reflections in the lens. Perhaps I'm clipping the MB. I don't see it in most the shots, do you?

hemophilia
02-16-2007, 05:23 PM
Yes.... on the right-hand side it's there pretty much the whole time. Hard to tell with some of the darker shots... but I think it's there.

Keep it coming... it's very exciting to see every smidgen of footage from this camera.

-Kevin

Jason Rodriguez
02-16-2007, 06:59 PM
Hi Chris, Nice shots of the traffic . . . very filmic.

BTW, if you guys want to see some more footage, we have some samples from "Boss of the Glory" on the website gallery here (http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/gallery_footage.html).

Mars United
05-28-2007, 05:40 PM
Shot some stuff off my balcony the other day. These are highly compressed, of course.

Mars United
05-28-2007, 06:14 PM
some high rez bitmaps:

http://www.marsunited.com/framegrabs.html

Jason Rodriguez
05-28-2007, 10:27 PM
Cool shots, and I like how the highlights hold in the street scenes . . . BTW, what .look file did you use? Was it one you made yourself?

Thanks,

Jason

Mars United
05-28-2007, 10:55 PM
Thanks Jason,

that's my favorite all-purpose .look file. It is one I downloaded from you guys called "Neutral_Contrast_2.look" I also used a grad ND and a polarizer.

I find that .look file actually looks really great indoors when you're under-lit, too. And the cool thing is, when you want that extra detail back, it's still there instantly in RAW. Sometimes it surprises me when I switch off the .look and see the RAW and all the information in there.

Cheers :beer:.

TimurCivan
05-29-2007, 12:46 AM
The highlights retention is good, but look again at the street scene. Notice how the inside of the truck with the cabin light on, still lights up the inside of the truck. thats the kind of shadow retention thats important.... I like having the ability to expose for highlights, and still retain the shadow detial.

Though some of the footage posted has INSANE Chorma Abberation. its the lens.

Grug
05-29-2007, 05:26 AM
Woah! A 'real' camera... never thought I'd see one of these on here! :thumbsup: The blue and red tones seem somewhat undersaturated to my eye, but the image is gorgeous! (Real depth of field and low-light performance!!!)


Whereabouts in Van are you? *sigh*.......I miss Tim Horton's

Jason Rodriguez
05-29-2007, 06:44 AM
I like having the ability to expose for highlights, and still retain the shadow detail.

I know you're not familiar with the "Neutral_Contrast_2.look" file that Chris mentioned, but it crushes the shadows quite a bit, so there is LOTS of shadow detail that you're not seeing on the screen in the RAW 10-bit log file.

Mars United
05-29-2007, 09:42 AM
Woah! A 'real' camera... never thought I'd see one of these on here! :thumbsup: The blue and red tones seem somewhat undersaturated to my eye, but the image is gorgeous! (Real depth of field and low-light performance!!!)


Whereabouts in Van are you? *sigh*.......I miss Tim Horton's
Hey, I'm 1 block off the Drive. I've never been to Australia, but, somehow I still miss the weather!

I have to head out for a week (LA ... yay!) but when I get back I'll post more variety of shots, and some actual footage. These were all from one spot (my balcony) with one set of filters and one hazy but bright day. The day actually looked boring to the naked eye, and, not being pro by any stretch, I just try to get an image that is attractive to my eye.

I don't see any chroma abberations, but then, I don't know where to look!

Cheers. :beer:

TimurCivan
05-29-2007, 10:21 AM
I know you're not familiar with the "Neutral_Contrast_2.look" file that Chris mentioned, but it crushes the shadows quite a bit, so there is LOTS of shadow detail that you're not seeing on the screen in the RAW 10-bit log file.

Cool.

bobbower
10-11-2007, 10:12 AM
Shot some stuff off my balcony the other day. These are highly compressed, of course.

nice chemtrail picture number 3 :2vrolijk_08:

Mars United
10-11-2007, 10:20 AM
Hey,

Those pics, if they are still available, were shot before I took my zoom into Panavision and had it rebuilt. It is noticeably sharper now. I'm actually going to buy 2 more of these cameras (the full SI-2K with body) because they are so cool. I will hopefully find time soon to post some links to some finished projects. Cheers.

BTW, I've forgotten where I am in these posts, but fyi the vignetting issue was solved long ago.

bikefilms
10-11-2007, 01:40 PM
What a rig!

All lens and... where's the camera? :)

It would be cool to see this developed into a form factor similar to a Medium Format still camera . Just place those cable inputs on one side, and bring that monitor down an' plop in on the back!

cool!
-andrew

LittleBlackBird
12-18-2008, 11:03 PM
Nice! What will your workflow be with the SI-2K?

kyle.presley
12-18-2008, 11:38 PM
:zombie_smiley:

Mars United
12-19-2008, 12:37 AM
wow. old thread revived.

The work flow since the last year has been SI-2K Cineform AVI > Premiere Pro, but we are switching to FCP now that Cineform is fully supporting it.

The workflow is really nice since the Cineform files allow you to drop your files right into your editor without having to encode or create proxies. Just drop them in your time line and edit away. The non-destructive meta-data is nice too.

Check out Danny Boyle's Slumdog Millionaire for an award winning feature that is out in theaters now (at least here) and looks fantastic.

Ari Presler
01-22-2009, 11:36 PM
http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/Images/Oscars.JPG

Slumdog Millionaire shot with SI-2K Camera receives 10 Oscar Nominations:

Slumdog Millionaire, which already swept 4 Golden Globes earlier this month continues its own rags-to-riches story with a total of 10 Academy Award nominations including Best Picture, Best Director for Danny Boyle and Best Cinematography for Anthony Dod Mantle. In the crowd pleasing fantasy, Danny Boyle tells a love story about a teenager who rises from the slums of Mumbai to win the Indian version of the television game show Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? Many of the fast-paced chase scenes and game show set were shot with the Silicon Imaging SI-2K Digital Cinema Camera.

“The film uses dazzling cinematography, breathless editing, driving music and headlong momentum to explode with narrative force, stirring in a romance at the same time” states Roger Ebert, for the Chicago Sun-Times.

The challenge of shooting of one of the densest and fasting moving cities in the world fell upon Director of Photography Anthony Dod Mantle, who most recently shot Last King of Scotland and had previously worked with Boyle on both 28 Days Later and Millions. The plan was to shoot in the heart of the city’s infamous but rarely explored slums, capturing their energy and urgency on-the-fly, with an unforced realism.

“Danny Boyle and I had made four films together prior to this and we have developed a method and a trust”, says Anthony Dod Mantle. We both have strong opinions about our work and about cinema in general and we always want to try to push ideas to the fullest.”

Danny Boyle was adamant that he did not want to take large, cumbersome 35mm cameras into the slums. He wanted to use smaller, more flexible, digital cameras to enable them to shoot quickly with minimal disturbance to the natural flow and communities.

“We started off using classical kinds of film cameras and I didn’t like it.” Boyle explains. “I wanted to feel really involved in the city. I didn’t want to be looking at it, examining it. I wanted to be thrown right into the chaos as much as possible.”

"I had to find a camera set up that would be ergonomic enough for me to throw myself around the slums chasing the children whilst, at the same time, withhold as much detail in the shadows and highlights” says Anthony Dod Mantle. Our producer, Chris Colson, had hoped for Danny and Anthony to repeat the efforts on Mini-DV”. This was all well and good, except for the monumental difference between shooting multi camera fiction on sets where I could light, sometimes quite heavily. We needed a digital camera with enough latitude to hold highlights and something very small so we could enter the children’s world at their level. “Slumdog Millionaire” needed a completely different tactical approach.”

They found the right combination in the innovative IT-centric Silicon Imaging SI-2K Digital Cinema camera. It delivered over 11 stops of dynamic range, flexible connectivity and film-like digital content, which could be easily inter-cut with traditional film footage.

Unlike modern HD cameras, which develop and compress colorized imagery inside the camera, the Silicon Imaging SI-2K streams 2K (2048x1152) data as uncompressed raw “digital negatives” over a standard gigabit Ethernet connection. An IntelCore 2 Duo processor-based computer embedded in the camera or tethered to a laptop up to 100 feet away, processes the digital negatives, where they are non-destructively developed and colorized for preview using the cinematographer's desired "look" for the scene.

The digital negatives and "look" metadata are simultaneously recorded to hard drive or solid state disk where up to 4-hours of continuous footage are captured on a single 160GB notebook drive; this is the equivalent of 14-reels of 35mm film which has an associated cost exceeding $25,000 for materials and processing. The recorded files, can be immediately played with the target color look at full resolution, without the need for film scanning, tape ingest, format conversions or off-line proxies.

A customized camera support and recording package had to be built to meet the unique form factor demands of the Slumdog shoot. . They enlisted Pille Film, of Wiesbaden Germany, to create a custom solution which included a gyro stabilizer for the base of the SI-2K Mini. Instead of using the traditional film-style camera body, they elected to use Apple Mac book Pro notebook, running Windows XP, for the recorders, and built them into ruggedized backpacks, to be worn inconspicuously. Stefan Ciupek, the show’s technical supervisor and additional camera operator, coordinated the design and modifications of the camera system with Wolfgang Damm of Pille, whose team worked around the clock to get the 2K Mini rigs built

Pille assembled four units for the production, and by testing them in a sauna, determined that the laptops would have to be packed in dry ice so they wouldn’t fail in India’s intense heat. Once shooting began, the dry ice had to be reloaded hourly; the production required up to 45 pounds of dry ice daily.

"I've done some odd things, but this was the oddest," Mantle says. "It was unknown territory and unknown technology, which was exciting. Attaching a gyro to the base of the handheld unit enabled me to move the camera in a very unusual way, somewhere between handheld and immaculate Steadicam,” says the cinematographer. I could make fast movements, throw the camera a certain way, swipe it up and sideways, and make a brake just before the gyro kicked in so it came to an abrupt stop. Boyle loved the results.“

“It’s not like jiggery-pokery handheld,” says director Boyle. “When you work handheld with a film camera, it’s always connected to the body mass, but Anthony separated the camera from his body weight, so his body weight could be on the left and the camera on the right. It was extraordinary what he could accomplish. He’s the greatest operator I’ve ever seen.”

“The SI-2K’s handled the highlights amazingly well.” stated Mantle. “I have since shot on the Red camera and found I had to be more wary of clipping the highlights in Scandinavia than I had to be with the SI2K in scorching India. Its weight factor obviously allowed me to operate more intuitively and emotionally instantaneously than I can with the normal weight of even a modern celluloid camera.”

The filmmakers originally planned to shoot specific scenes digitally and the rest on 3-perf Super 35mm, but Boyle was so pleased with the SI-2K performance that he gradually decided to shoot more and more with it. The SI-2K digital cameras also allowed me to shoot more content than I would have done, for a similar budget, on pure film stock.

“During the final grading of Slumdog Millionaire both Danny and myself used words such as magnificent, regarding some of the SI-2K scenes.” Stated Dod Mantle. Along the way I shot up to 5 different film stocks which were interwoven into the digitally captured material at the grade in London with the MPC team with the colorist Jean Clement. The conditions were tough for any camera including the heat, dust and rapid camera movement. I am deeply happy and excited about the final sheen this film will have and I think the SI-2K helped to bring out the vibrancy and the immediacy to what was always an amazing script.”

"This was not a conventional piece of cinematography, not one where I was able to start a shot and complete it and orchestrate it," he says. "I had to work my pants off shooting in the slums, with the unforeseeable rampant running. We shot crowd scenes, like the chase through Juhu slum at the beginning of the film, using the people who happened to be passing by on the street for added realism. The hyperkinetic chase sequence involving the young Jamal and Salim at the beginning of the film was filmed incrementally, built up, like a montage over a period of time. I had an unforgettable time shooting with the SI-2K in India and am very very grateful for the support I have been given by the Silicon Imaging and Pille Film team, making the film unfold in such a beautiful way.”

Anthony Dod Mantle, who received an oscar nomination for Best Cinematography, has already won honors for his color-infused photography on this film, including the Golden Frog from the Poland's CamerImage Festival; the most prestigious international award for cinematographers.

"I'm ecstatic! Thank you to the Academy from the cast and crew here in Mumbai where the film was made and where it's being premiered tonight. It feels like you've given us a billion nominations!" director Danny Boyle said in reaction to the nominations.

ESTEBEVERDE
01-23-2009, 01:47 AM
Congratulations Ari! :beer:

Ari Presler
04-15-2009, 09:21 AM
Silicon Imaging, the company that enabled the digital shooting of this years Oscar winning Best Picture Slumdog Millionaire, is now changing the face of stereo-3D cinematography and production. The company unveiled the world’s first integrated 3D cinema camera and stereo visualization system at NAB 2009. The SI-3D shoots uncompressed raw imagery from two synchronized cameras and encodes directly to a single stereo CineFormRAW QuickTime file, along with 3D LUT color and convergence metadata. The stereo file can to be instantly played back and edited in Full 3D on an Apple Final Cut timeline, without the need for proxy conversions.

Traditionally, 3D content was captured from two independent left and right cameras, each with its own settings, color controls, record start, timecode, content management and monitoring outputs. A variety of complex devices would be used to synchronize the recordings or combine the outputs for viewing. The content would then have to go through a tedious process of being ingested or converted to formats compatible with the editing or grading systems, matched up from the independent left and right sources, flipped if the shot was on a beam splitter and the timeline adjusted to have the first frame overlapped. A color grade could then be applied, convergence adjusted and finally a stereo image viewed for dailies playback.

"The SI-3D camera system streamlines the entire stereo-3D content acquisition and post production process;" states Ari Presler, CEO of Silicon Imaging. "Combining two cameras into a single control, processing and recording platform enables shooting and instant playback like a traditional 2D camera with the added tools needed on-set to analyze and adjust the lighting, color, flip orientation and stereo depth effects. In post, a unified stereo file plus associated metadata can be immediately graded for dailies, edited, and viewed in either 2D or 3D."

The SI-3D system uses two remote SI-2K Mini cameras with an P+S interchange lens mount connected to a single processing system via gigabit Ethernet where they are synchronized and controlled through the familiar SiliconDVR touchscreen interface. On-set, each camera can be viewed individually or in stereo mixed modes using modern 3D LCD and DLP displays. Various tools are used to visualize and adjust the focus, lighting and 3-D effects including alignment grid overlays, false color zebras, digital zooming, edge detection, spot meters, dual histograms, parallax shifts, anaglyph mixing and wiggle displays.

Unlike modern HD cameras, which develop and compress colorized imagery, the SI system captures raw "digital negatives" where they are non-destructively developed and colorized for preview using the cinematographer's desired "look" for the scene. This color metadata, along with stereo convergence, flip orientation from beam splitter rigs and alignment data are encoded into a single CineFormRAW QuickTime stereo file. These files can be edited directly in Apple Final Cut without the need for conversion or rendering. With the addition of CineForm’s Neo3D, convergence plus stereo or individual eye color adjustments can be dynamically controlled and modified, while viewing live 3D playback using side-by-side, over-under, or interlaced output modes.

"Driven by increasing numbers of 3D film projects planned by Hollywood studios, the demand for efficient 3D camera and post workflows has increased significantly in the last two years,” said David Taylor, CEO of CineForm, Inc. “The combination of the Silicon Imaging SI-3D camera with CineForm high-fidelity compression-based 3D workflow will significantly reduce overall project complexity and costs."

"The Silicon Imaging camera's form factor and flexible lens mounting system enable us to develop innovative lightweight beam-splitter and parallel rigs to shoot steadicam and hand-held stereo footage with incredible latitude and film like results" stated Max Penner, CTO of ParadiseFX. We have the SI Mini’s as part of our 3D camera package to shooting feature films including Thomas Jane’s "Dark Country 3D", Patrick Lussier's, "My Bloody Valentine 3D" and Joe Dante's "The Hole 3D"."

The SI-3D system is also establishing new benchmarks in image quality and data rates with its ability to record dual-stream 12-bit uncompressed raw directly to mobile 2.5” SSD (Solid State Drives), with peak rates up to 200Mbytes/sec (1.6Gbit/sec). A 250 GB drive can store up to 1-hour of footage per camera. The resulting Silicon Imaging Video (.SIV) footage can be seamlessly viewed and graded directly in Iridas FrameCycler and Speedgrade XR with look and stereo metadata applied. The files can also be exported as a CinemaDNG sequences or converted to CineFormRAW 2D or 3D files, at a later time.

"There is an incredible amount of latitude and resolution from the Silicon Imaging cameras" states William White, CEO of 3D Camera Company. "Shooting directly to SSD gives us the flexibility to record stereo footage in an extreme lightweight and rugged configuration as shoulder or vehicle mounted for ‘Rescue 3D’ and even body worn for shooting from a skydiver in the upcoming 'Human Flight 3D'. The SI-3D system with on-set visualization and integrated stereo workflow will speed up our entire shooting and production process for creating compelling 3D content."

Silicon Imaging will be demonstrating the SI-3D system at NAB 2009 in Booth SL11605.

http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/News/images/clip_image006.jpg

[/URL]
http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/News/images/clip_image008.jpg
(http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/News/PR_04_20_09_3D_Image2.html)
SI-3D System on 3D Camera Company "Human Flight 3D" Shoot

http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/News/images/clip_image004.jpg

SI-3D Touchscreen Interface

http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/News/images/clip_image010.jpg


[URL="http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/News/PR_04_20_09_3D_Image1.html"]
SI cameras on ParadiseFX rig shooting "My Bloody Valentine 3D"