XH A1 Shoulder Brace?

[Kirock7]

Does anyone know of a support device that could be used with the XH A1 in such a way as to allow a person to actually use the viewfinder?
Using the fold-out LCD screen is not an option for me at the distances most shoulder braces would position it at. I just can't focus on that thing when it's three or four inches from my face... and I need the handheld support and "both-eyes open" feel of using a cupped eye piece (too many years working news don't ya know).
Most of the affordable devices that I've come across after many hours of researching are aligned so that the camera is positioned to the right of your head (to accommodate camera left side-mounted viewfinders of course.) But for my old eyes that dog just ain't gonna hunt.

Canon has their expensive neck-strap support system (and there are a few others) which would probably work... but I can't imagine what kind of stress and eventual pain the neck strap and a fully decked out camera might inflict.
And then there are one or two products that almost appear (by way of pics on their websites) to be the answer (http://www.studio1productions.com/dvbrace.htm for example) but I'm not sure and can't find enough posted experiences to make a good choice.

Aaargh! I swear if I don't find something soon I'm going to try and make a shoulder mount myself. :-)
Any ideas, guys? Any experiences to share?

[dcrin3]

that shoulder brace looks good and cheap too! that isnt sufficient for the A1? i am also looking for a similar item or stabilizer for a lower price.

[BARYE]

potentially interesting design -- but rather pricey for what it offers (and what's with having typos in the web text and using the world's least attractive model with which to show it off ???)

(btw -- I was a happy user of Studio1's PREVIOUS generation of XLR adapters -- the ones that mounted beneath the camera in the tripod screw)

The spiderbrace 2 or mini-rig is MUCH cheaper and might work as well, though I have no experience with either http://www.spiderbrace.com/

[rawfa]

Go with the steady stick. It's simply amazing. I used to have a shoulder support similar to the one on your link but I had the same problem. Sometimes I wanted to use the viewfinder and I simply couldn't. Besides, after long hours my shoulder started hurting. The steady stick allows you to place the camera as or as close to your face as you want. And the beauty of it is that it places all the weight on your hips. You can shoot for hours with 30 pounds on it and you don't feel tired at all. I simply love the darn thing. The other day I mounted my A1+letus35+a heavy 28mm+a small 7inch lcd...with a regular shoulder support this would kill my shoulder. But with the steady stick I shot for hours. And before you ask, NO, I am NOT a steady stick sales man.

Just take a look at it http://www.tiffen.com/SteadyStick.htm

[rawfa]

BTW, I bought mine at ebay for like 85 dollars.

[markwoods]

all small hand helds need some kind of support device. no matter how light they are your arm will hurt after a while and your wrist will deform and hurt as well. with shoulder braces I found that since all the weight is in front of you the shoulder does not really support anything unless you put a hugh counter weight on the back which makes the whole system heavy and limited. those with chest brace are terrible, you cant tilt down and breathing is transformed to the camera. the new generation of front supported devices are better those with fixed support pod are good for stationary shoots but you cant move with them. the best are the once with a spring loaded support pods. the dvrigpro was the best camera support so far with a spring loaded shock absorbing support stick and adjustable camera position, front back and left right. I didn't buy it since it was still some what a limitation in many situations. the same company came out with the multirig that has all the best features and
can be adjusted in many ways to accommodate any situation or folded down under the camera and out of the way. this is my choice i work with it for 2 month now very pleased with the versatility and fatigueless shooting. i also found out that with light cameras the shoulder part is not necessary and even bad for walking shoots i took the manual advice and tried shooting dynamic shoots with the support pod and no shoulder brace mode, it is fabulous. highly recommended and reasonably priced.

[dcrin3]

BTW, I bought mine at ebay for like 85 dollars.

that looks very promising~ for a price like that and a great performer.. how can I go wrong? :cheesy:

[jaegersing]

i also found out that with light cameras the shoulder part is not necessary and even bad for walking shoots i took the manual advice and tried shooting dynamic shoots with the support pod and no shoulder brace mode, it is fabulous. highly recommended and reasonably priced.

You mean like this (centre pic)?

http://www.dvmultirig.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/Multirighorizontal.jpg

[BARYE]

You mean like this (centre pic)?

http://www.dvmultirig.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/Multirighorizontal.jpg

that would not seem to be workable for any sort of walking/gliding sort of move -- though all these low end devices might enable you to hand hold for longer times

then again I don't think I really need/want anything as big and expensive as this http://www.fsprostabilisateur.com/english/price/price.htm

[BARYE]

BTW , the Steadicam Merlin will soon have a vest mount option -- though I don't know the price

http://www.tiffen.com/merlinarmvest.html

[rawfa]

From all I've seen and heard the merlin is awesome...800$ though...and the vest will probably be around that price range too.

[BARYE]

From all I've seen and heard the merlin is awesome...800$ though...and the vest will probably be around that price range too.

there are projects and moves that could contrive justifications toward a $1600 gizmo -- if it actually performed like a real Garrett Brown Steadicam ...

[rawfa]

there are projects and moves that could contrive justifications toward a $1600 gizmo -- if it actually performed like a real Garrett Brown Steadicam ...

If I had the cash I would not hesitate for a second in investing it on merlin+vest combo.

[markwoods]

You mean like this (centre pic)?

http://www.dvmultirig.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/Multirighorizontal.jpg

Exactly, It is difficult to explain it stroked me when i first used it. very easy to shoot with LCD or view finder, if you do the "steadicam walk" the walking shoots results are quit impressive, not like a real gimbal/vest steadicam floating shoots but very smooth and no jerks what so ever. i can also shoot sideways to follow a person or follow him when he passes me, combine all 4 axis in one shoot elevate/tilt/pan/dutch and go from kneeling to standing to walking in one shoot, its like dancing with a good partner...

[xray]

The problem with many supports is that you can not easy make a low shot - holding the cam on its handle- and then bring it up again to a shoulder height. And indeed to a position where you have it in front for the eyepiece. Overall look with one eye and one eye thru the viewfinder, like Kirock7 describes.

The problem with the support sticks, (dvrigpro/multirig etc.) is that you need to connect them with a screw movement to the cam before you can use it, that makes it almost connected to the body. It's no click on/off system.

Now if you want to change fast from shoulder support to tripod, or to a low walking shot that is costing you time. And if you walk handheld, where do you leave the non used parts?

You lose the 'free movements' the non-shoulder cam gives you. If so, why not buying a shouldercam? I wonder what is the best tool for the A1, you need to get used to all of them. The multirig seems close to perfect, but the screw on stick remains. How is that working for you Rawfa?

[SamKam]

xray, you've summed it up perfectly. For my doc stuff I shoot mostly verite-style and the "free movements" of the non-shoulder cam is essential, as is having my left hand able to manually zoom and focus. Also, the low profile of "just having this little camera", and not a big, intimidating rig is vital for putting subjects at ease and allowing them to forget you're there. But it does get heavy.
If only there was a small, inconspicuous rig that supported that style of shooting.

[Kirock7]

Go with the steady stick. It's simply amazing. I used to have a shoulder support similar to the one on your link but I had the same problem. Sometimes I wanted to use the viewfinder and I simply couldn't. Besides, after long hours my shoulder started hurting. The steady stick allows you to place the camera as or as close to your face as you want. And the beauty of it is that it places all the weight on your hips. You can shoot for hours with 30 pounds on it and you don't feel tired at all. I simply love the darn thing. The other day I mounted my A1+letus35+a heavy 28mm+a small 7inch lcd...with a regular shoulder support this would kill my shoulder. But with the steady stick I shot for hours. And before you ask, NO, I am NOT a steady stick sales man.

Just take a look at it http://www.tiffen.com/SteadyStick.htm
So you've used this comfortably with your A1, rawfa? Are you easily able to pull the camera to your face and use the viewfinder? If so, could you post a pic? I'd love to see how it works using the eyepiece (and not just the flip out LCD) on an A1. :cheesy:

[rawfa]

Man, if you had asked me for this this morning! I spent the day on the field with my sound technicians making tests. Tomorrow I'm leaving for a trip and I'll only be back on saturday. I'll try to get a picture then. But I can tell you it's no problem to get the camera close enough to your face so that you can comfortably use the viewfinder.

[rawfa]

Ok, this is a very very very quick test I JUST shot to show you the steady stick in action.

http://rapidshare.com/files/12895741/A1_Letus_Steady_Stick_1.wmv.html

I had to boost the gamma in post and this is a badly compressed divx file...so don't pay attention to the quality.

[Kirock7]

Man, if you had asked me for this this morning! I spent the day on the field with my sound technicians making tests. Tomorrow I'm leaving for a trip and I'll only be back on saturday. I'll try to get a picture then. But I can tell you it's no problem to get the camera close enough to your face so that you can comfortably use the viewfinder.
Okay. Now you've got me lookin' to buy in. I guesss I wouldn't have to buy a LANC zoom controller with it and that's a big plus right there. Thanks for the good input! :-Happy(DBG):

Edit: Just saw your footage. Thanks for doing that, it's much appreciated. It appears that it would be possible to put my eye up to the viewfinder (although it looks like you were using the flip out monitor in your vid).
Do you ever have any problems with the belt and keeping your pants at an optimum level? :-)
It looks like you can position the belt's pocket to any comfortable position... is that true?
Thanks again, man!

[rawfa]

Here's another test: http://rapidshare.com/files/12897171/A1_Letus_Steady_Stick_2.wmv.html

[rawfa]

I was using the lcd but asyou can see I had to move my head back. It's kind of hard to shoot your self on a mirror hehehe. You can simply adjust how far do you want the camera from your face.

[markwoods]

------not quite...

The problem with many supports is that you can not easy make a low shot - holding the cam on its handle- and then bring it up again to a shoulder height. And indeed to a position where you have it in front for the eyepiece. Overall look with one eye and one eye thru the viewfinder, like Kirock7 describes.

--------Yes you can. the multirig is only 1.5 Kg 3 pounds.

The problem with the support sticks, (dvrigpro/multirig etc.) is that you need to connect them with a screw movement to the cam before you can use it, that makes it almost connected to the body. It's no click on/off system.

----------true but with a slight practice its very fast.

Now if you want to change fast from shoulder support to tripod,

------- you can permanently mount your tripod plate to the multi and slide the rig with the camera in and off the tripod head in seconds

or to a low walking shot that is costing you time. And if you walk handheld, where do you leave the non used parts?

---------there is a D ring on top of the holster that is used to store the "stick" you just lift the stick 2" and drop it. it will hang there for next use. in the dvrigpro you have the D ring and an elastic spring clip on the right bar to hold the stick when not in use.

You lose the 'free movements' the non-shoulder cam gives you. If so, why not buying a shouldercam? I wonder what is the best tool for the A1, you need to get used to all of them. The multirig seems close to perfect, but the screw on stick remains. How is that working for you Rawfa

---------you cant have everything and there are trade offs but over all for more then 80% of the time i find the multirig very helpful and less limiting then all other supports i have tried.

[xray]

Hi, please 'quote me' in a practical manner.

1) I did not mean weight (although 1,5 kg is a lot) but the 'ease' of movement with the cam only, close to the talent, it definetly is changed by adding the dvrigpro (tried that).

2. practice always need, but a click on system would be faster, I dont like screwsystems.

3. you leave the stick on the D-ring, that also makes movement more difficult, but it is some sort of solution, now I leave the dvrigpro next to the tripod, -to make free movement shots-, hope it remains there if I return.

As I said, multirig seems close to perfect, but handheld 'free' shooting is another style. Doing so with the A1 is heavy, with the HVX painfull heavy, and all palmcams need to shrink back in size for being real handheld (like it was).

[Kirock7]

Take a look at this offer on the DVMultiRig (http://dvtec.tv/store/). Crazy, man! :shocked:?

[markwoods]

Take a look at this offer on the DVMultiRig (http://dvtec.tv/store/). Crazy, man! :shocked:?


thats the right link www.dvmultirig.com (http://www.dvmultirig.com)

[Kirock7]

The Steady Stick is starting to look more and more like what I need, but I'm wondering if it would be possible to attach a comfortable lanyard to it... much like it's been done with the DVRig Junior (http://www.dvtec.tv/id3.html)
In fact the DVRig Junior looks an awful lot like the Steady Stick but is almost three times as much. I really don't see much difference except for the lanyard. Anyone care to comment?

[danny]

The Steady Stick is starting to look more and more like what I need, but I'm wondering if it would be possible to attach a comfortable lanyard to it... much like it's been done with the DVRig Junior (http://www.dvtec.tv/id3.html)
In fact the DVRig Junior looks an awful lot like the Steady Stick but is almost three times as much. I really don't see much difference except for the lanyard. Anyone care to comment?

The big difference is that the DVRigJunior has a fluid head on the tilt and roll axis and is supported by a shock absorbing spring loaded support pod. the result is that all your camera moves are fluent , never jerky and you are not stuck in one height, when you apply pressure on the camera the support pod adjusts its length accordingly. height can be locked same as the tilt and roll (dutch). We have few ExDemo units in stock. mail me if you like one.

[Kirock7]

Danny
I just PM'd ya. (Can't seem to get the forum's email command to work).
Kirock7

[SamKam]

Danny-
Just PM'ed you also

[danny]

SamKam and Kirock7

An exdemo DVRigJunior is 200$ each+45$ shipping. If you guys can arrange it, Since you are both in the US, I can send one of you two units with only 1 shipping charge and you arange the split.

Mail me at natovich@inter.net.il or just place an order for the "special" at www.dvtec.tv/store

[Kirock7]

SamKam and Kirock7

An exdemo DVRigJunior is 200$ each+45$ shipping. If you guys can arrange it, Since you are both in the US, I can send one of you two units with only 1 shipping charge and you arange the split.

Mail me at natovich@inter.net.il or just place an order for the "special" at www.dvtec.tv/store (http://www.dvtec.tv/store)
Thanks for the offer, danny... but $45 bucks for shippin'? :shocked: How much does that thing weigh? :cheesy:

For now... just call me undecided. :undecided

[BARYE]

Thanks for the offer, danny... but $45 bucks for shippin'? :shocked: How much does that thing weigh? :cheesy:

For now... just call me undecided. :undecided

apparently its shipping from Israel from their contact info:

47 Ein-Hay St.
Kfar Malal 45920
Israel

[danny]

Thanks for the offer, danny... but $45 bucks for shippin'? :shocked: How much does that thing weigh? :cheesy:

For now... just call me undecided. :undecided

If this helps I can make it 20$ by air mail (10 days)

[xray]

Hi Danny,
Just a thought: why two websites? I was on multirig store and suddenly on dvtec.tv I was afraid it was a scam...

If you are on http://www.dvtec.tv/store/
you see the message :
For DvMultiRig orders, Go to www.dvmultirig.com/store

I think it is not clear, and to trust something -for entering my Visa number- you need to do better. Try to make it as clear as you can get. I'm always afraid for phising sites.

best, xray

[danny]

Hi Danny,
Just a thought: why two websites? I was on multirig store and suddenly on dvtec.tv I was afraid it was a scam...

If you are on http://www.dvtec.tv/store/
you see the message :
For DvMultiRig orders, Go to www.dvmultirig.com/store

I think it is not clear, and to trust something -for entering my Visa number- you need to do better. Try to make it as clear as you can get. I'm always afraid for phising sites.

best, xray

the 2 sites, Long story.
Thanks for pointing this out, I will see how to make it look more legitimate.

[SamKam]

Thanks danny. Unfortunately have to pass for now. Looks like a good product, though. Perhaps in the near future . . .
Kol tuv.

[danny]

Kol tuv.

Lots of " Kol tuv" to you too (We have secret codes here...):2vrolijk_08: