Why I chose an A1 over an HVX- run & gunners take note

[Stu Siegal]

I was 99% ready to push the button on an hvx/firestore combo, been reading my brains out on both, watching footage, and despite many misgivings, I was still a panasonic person. And then Iwent to B&H... and wound up with an A1/HV10 combo.

I knew the hvx would be a stretch for run & gun, I'd read conflicting reports, but had convinced myself I could make it work, because I loved the pana image so much.

Then, I went to B&H, two 1-2 hr trips over 2 days. Talked to lots of other customers/dp's who'd used the hvx and the h1, and also had the benefit of the most informed floor sales guy I've ever encountered at B&H.

First thing I discovered was that I was kidding myself about the ergonomics of the HVX - bigger is not better, and it is bigger and clunkier than both a dvx and an A1. And that is before adding a firestore, because p2 is not an option for my kind of work. The A1 is considerably smaller & lighter - dvx sized - nice ergonomics. All that hvx weight handheld was not going to be pretty, and with a belt clip cabled firestore, I foresaw major problems in with both weight and mobility in extreme locations an uncontrollable shooting environments - remote geographic locations, dense crowds, at sea, etc.

Second - LCD screen & focus assist. The HVX LCD is inferior to both the A1 & dvx. In run & gun situations, you'll need to frequently employ focus assist, which is nice, but if every second counts, you'll be missing plenty of shots while playing with the focus, not to mention needing a third hand to stay hand-held in the right hand, press the focus assist with the left, which will require a re-frame of your shot, then focus.

Next, the loss of a stop over the A1. After the above realization, I decided I'd miss it more than I thought, mostly because I'd have to gain up to get it back, and while grain wasn't the big issue, time was - just one more step to add. Gain up, focus assist, reframe, focus = missed shot.

Image - I never liked the Canon look. I discovered that either the Canon or me or or both of us has changed. After some rudimentary tweaking, I was amazed at how un-Canonlike it was, which is a backwards way of saying it looked spectacular. I clearly liked it better than the hvx. Again, a highly personal thing (remember, I loved the dvx look), and far from ideal test conditions, but I'd seen much posted footage from both going in to begin with, and this sealed the deal. Point is if you haven't liked Canon in the past, go look again, the 24f is excellent and so are the image controls. Once I changed my mind on the image, there was absolutely zero reason to jam a square peg into a round hole with the hvx.

Bottom line is, if you are a run & gunner wavering between the two - put your hands on both before you buy! It's not an on-paper decision, the hvx will require a considerably different shooting style than the dvx - the A1 won't. Before you decide what you can and can't live with, handle both.

[t-h-e-w-h-o]

well said, i apreciate you writing this. Ive worked with the HVX a few times and loved the results it produced, but those p2 cards are deff not my style of workflow. Too much money for too little tape time. I have not shot footage with an A1 yet, but i already purchased mine based on lots of research and sample footage. I think were both on the same page with our reasons for purchasing it. I didnt like canon in the past and was a huge panny (DVX) fan. However, it seems canon has made a great move here with thier pricing and 24F. I dare say that the A1 looks like it can hold its own against the HVX, and for less than half the price... cant beat that. What is the HV10 combo? is that a tapeless hard drive device? If so, i might invest in that as well.

[icicle22]

What is the HV10 combo? is that a tapeless hard drive device? If so, i might invest in that as well.

The HV10 is a small HDV camcorder from Canon that sells for less than $1000 at most places. While it will not record 24f it will play it back. So it acts as a little deck for playing and capturing 24f footage as well as 60i. It is a great little camera too for well lit scenes in 60i. It gets kinda dicey in lowlight....but what the heck. It is essentially a consumer camera designed for point and shoot of family vacations. The fact that canon added 24f playback is a huge plus to all of us!

Peace!

[Stu Siegal]

Sony, JVC, and Panny all have no interest in making a deck for Canon, a camera co. that deson;t make decks, thus the HV10 - a two in one - nice little camera, and roughly the equivalent as a dsr-11 in terms of feeder deck.

[t-h-e-w-h-o]

Sony, JVC, and Panny all have no interest in making a deck for Canon, a camera co. that deson;t make decks, thus the HV10 - a two in one - nice little camera, and roughly the equivalent as a dsr-11 in terms of feeder deck.

ah, gotcha. But for around the same price one could get the canon firestore fs-4 and not have to worry about wearing down their camera's heads. However, that will make a nice deck as you guys have said.

[Stu Siegal]

The firestore is a big negative for run & gun as far as I'm concerned.

1. It either adds weight to the camera or requires a tether to you, which you will invariable forget at some point and send something crashing.

2. It needs ventilation, and isn't recommended for use in temperature extremes.

3. Tapeless is, IMHO, a huge mistake.

Yesterday I put in a cd that was about four years old into my laptop, and it wouldn't read. The disc, a TDK, which was stored in a cool, dry place, had gone south, looked all cloudy on the shiny side.

What's going to happen 4 or 5 or 6 years down the road when people who archived to dvd start to have the same experience? Oh, no problem, I'll just back up on fw drive, instead, you say. No thanks. If they don't spin up periodically, the drive's heads stick, the drive becomes a paperweight, and the footage is a memory.

We have the perfect archiving solution now, its called tape. It's another plus of the A1. I just recaptured some footage shot on my trv900 8 years ago, looks perfect.

There are going to be some mighty sad tapeless people down the road who won't remember what they did with the few hours they saved not capturing from tape, but sure will cry for their lost footage.

[n8ture]

We have the perfect archiving solution now, its called tape.

Tell that to my friends in Ottumwa who lost a day of taping their flick when their DVX decided to mangle their tapes when they played them back for review.

There's no perfect archiving solution. There's only solutions that work best for you.

[Huy Vu]

I agree with n8ture. After shooting all day I went home and discovered massive tape dropout on the Sony HDV tape that's suppposed to prevent it. My only gripe with a Firestore would be the weight it adds to the camera but in the near future the physical size of all hard drive recording solution will probably decrease.

[t-h-e-w-h-o]

there is no true 100% guranteed backup solution. However, capturing to DTE device and a tape at the same time ensures the redudancy some people are looking for. Personally i have never had a problem with dv tapes. Sure they can get damaged and drop frames, just need to test, take care of and know your gear to best prevent it. We could argue about workflows for hours and the result would still be the same: Personal prefrence.

Me, i like both ways. Just depends what the project is and what i feel would work the best.

[xray]

First thing I discovered was that I was kidding myself about the ergonomics of the HVX - bigger is not better, and it is bigger and clunkier than both a dvx and an A1. And that is before adding a firestore, because p2 is not an option for my kind of work. The A1 is considerably smaller & lighter - dvx sized - nice ergonomics. All that hvx weight handheld was not going to be pretty, and with a belt clip cabled firestore, I foresaw major problems in with both weight and mobility in extreme locations an uncontrollable shooting environments - remote geographic locations, dense crowds, at sea, etc.


I hear you and I hear you good, exactly the same things that made my head going to the A1. And I know you did your research. Looking at the video's, the working process for remote documentary film, the weight and size and batterie use. And the final images it creates.

It is a hard decision, now try to make images that are as nice as it could be with colors, shades, DOF, light and creativity.

[Stu Siegal]

Tell that to my friends in Ottumwa who lost a day of taping their flick when their DVX decided to mangle their tapes when they played them back for review.

There's no perfect archiving solution. There's only solutions that work best for you.

I feel for your friends. I've also read plenty of thread of people who lost a day's shoot due to firestore problems.

The ratio of footage shot to footage lost with tape is very high. I think down the road that the ratio of footage archived to dvd or hdd to footage lost on these media will be much much steeper.

I stand corrected, tape is not perfect, but it is still the best we've got (unless you want to spring for one of those SDLT drives, which are a bit pricey for most of us).

[SamKam]

Did a similar weighing of the pros and cons as DrHST (but also considered the Sony V1U) and also came out in favor of the A1. I do mainly run-n-gun, avaiable light stuff and a big tipping point for me was the low light capabilities of the A1. Add to that the ability to record to the FireStore (on the belt with right angle Firewire cable at both ends) and tape at the same time - which will save a considerable amount of digitizing time - and I was sold.
But. most importantly, if you can, go to a store and hold both in your hands. It is your paintbrush and must feel right in your hands, regardless of what anyone else thinks.

[manglerBMX]

i've also been jumping to and fro with the hvx/a1. i've been a dvx owner for going on two years now. i love it. i had the chance to use the hvx some this past year and its an awesome cam. but the p2 cards can cause so many issues. for instance, if you're not somewhat of a computer nerd, forget it. i read a lot into the hvx so when i got it in hand i pretty much knew what i was doing. however my co-workers were not up to par on their nerdness thus leaving me with the tech support job. its very frustrating. and recently i got a job at a tv station and which they had an h1, fell in love with it. and like samkam, i use firestore and tape. its such an awesome workflow, life is great when you come home, plug in your drive and just pull your clips off. so yes, count me in as another panny to canon customer. now to just save up the funds

[Sean Michael]

tape is not perfect, but it is still the best we've got

I agree with you. Tape is grossly underappreciated for what it accomplishes as a cheap, readily available, high capacity, high reliability, long term storage unit.

I really wanted to stick with Panasonic, but P2 has sent me looking elsewhere. I'll end up purchasing either a Canon A1 or a Sony V1U -- both of which record HD to tape.

[t-h-e-w-h-o]

I agree with you. Tape is grossly underappreciated for what it accomplishes as a cheap, readily available, high capacity, high reliability, long term storage unit.

I really wanted to stick with Panasonic, but P2 has sent me looking elsewhere. I'll end up purchasing either a Canon A1 or a Sony V1U -- both of which record HD to tape.

seems you are in the same boat i was. I decided to go with canon just because i wasnt too impressed with my previous sony cams, plus the canon has that nice zoom and the "masking" features where you can choose what aspect ratio you are shooting for. A nice perk.

[Sean Michael]

I have a Sony HC3 consumer HD cam (1 CMOS chip) that's really impressive...shoots STUNNING 1080i video in good light. So that's led to me to at least give the V1 a chance. Plus, I'm attracted to the light weight of the V1, since I may be lugging this camera around China!

That said, I'm sold on the benefits of the Canon XH A1. I like everything about the camera...form factor, controls, color palette, recording medium, and most of all, the footage! There's something about the A1 footage that appears more organic and filmlike than its competitiors (IMHO).