who wants a stabilizer?

[zakaree]

i have access to a machine shop with cnc and other machines.. but i have no plans on how to build a good stabilizer.. if someone can come up with some good plans i can prolly get the machine guy to build it. and then ill sell them reasonably. let me know

[Emanuel]

I'm interested and I actually ordered one unit last friday from a new manufacturer for a customer of mine. But I'll have more customers interested. What's the price range?

[Blue]

Can you knock together a technocrane for under a grand?

[zakaree]

if people can provide me with blue prints.. i can prolly get anything machined... i just need to have numbers and design

[Lowkus]

What's preventing you from coming up with your own plans and blueprints?

[Capt Quirk]

Go to http://hbsboard.com/ . They have tons of plans and homebuilt stuff.

[mikkowilson]

zakaree, this water is much deeper than you think.

I'd recomend you do a lot of reading before trying to build one of these things. But either way I can promise that it will take you lots of time and effort to get a stabilizer of your own built.

They are deceptivly simple, and once you understand how they work to the point that you could start building (even with plans), you may want to re-consider your plans. Head over to e-bay for a look at all the disasters beeing sodl by people sho don't properly understand them.

That beeing said, have at it! Head over to www.homebuiltstabilizers.com (http://www.homebuiltstabilizers.com) and their forum, allready mentioned above. And have fun creating.

- Mikko

[mikkowilson]

I haven't had the chance to try the FS-pro yet, so I can't really comment on it fairly.

Lets keep this thread on topic of building a rig.

- Mikko

[Gordon Prince]

Building a rig for a $25,000-$30,000 camera? This is not a toy. Glidecam can be a solution but frankly it'll be interesting to read other options, real options. Not just talk.

Just my two pence.

[Emanuel]

Lets keep this thread on topic of building a rig.

- MikkoIt seems fair, so be it. :)

[FilmMakerr]

I'm interested, updates!

[twocik23]

You should really do your research before you start investing time and money$$. Believe me this is alot harder than what it seems. It really breaks down into physics, weight, balance, etc... There's alot to be learned with just the gimbal, then the top and bottom sled, and so on.

[MattinSTL]

This is the freakin' twilight zone... we went through this EXACT same scenario about 1.5 years ago... I mean EXACT EVERYTHING... I thought this was a revived thread... I was one of the ones who said I'd pay $1500 for what was going to be the Cody stabilizer in it's fully realized state... then the thread simply died out... I said I was flying into LA anyway and that I'd meet this guy and pay him and pick it up... then the thread dies...

So are we going to simply repeat the same thread again?

If so I'll save you the time... if you can do a Cody stabilizer for $1500 then I'm in... and you'll sell at least 3 more... but you'll have 10 people that say they will buy and only 4 of us will actually follow through if you follow through.

[Robban E.]

i have access to a machine shop with cnc and other machines.. but i have no plans on how to build a good stabilizer.. if someone can come up with some good plans i can prolly get the machine guy to build it. and then ill sell them reasonably. let me know

alot of people are saying it's difficult, since I am new to this thing I will not disagree. I too am interested but if there are a lot of people interested. The only person I see who is building a professional system is charles on HBS who is building an amzing system and all professional made. I saw some of his CAD drawings and they look very very good. He has even finish some pieces. Should take a loot at some of the drawings in HBS forum. There are many people with very nice ideas.

BTW, didn't someone say he will be offering the complete drawing for sale? I'm not too sure. Mabe mikko knows something. Mikko have you seen charles rig he is building?

Any how, you should see HBS and read through the forums like what Mikko and another person said before. There is so much information and you will learn plenty. Maybe you can make a deal with charles :)

[zakaree]

i know its not a simple task, i am trained to use a steadicam and i know the difficulties involved. And you guys are right.. red is not a toy to be trusted on any "homebuild" piece.. im not just a dude who has access to a lathe and cnc machine.. i wouldnt personally be building it. the company i work for/dad owns.. has an entire engineering dept as well as machine shop.. if the plans were the real deal i could pass those off and get it done right. obviously if they say NAY, ill go ahead and get a bigger small business loan and buy my own steadicam.:)
sorry for the deja vu of this thread to some of you. i know its a subject most commonly found on DIY but... im so stuck in the red forum that i rarely venture back out to the other dvxuser threads.

[zakaree]

What's preventing you from coming up with your own plans and blueprints?

honestly.. the fact that ill be mounting a RED on it is what is preventing me..
i want something proven. i know how they work.. i know what they need to have..but i just dont have time to crunch numbers and figure out all the specs on my own.. although eventually i do plan on coming up with my own plans.

[Bob Hill]

I also had a thought that just copying someone's plans and making a number of rigs for sale seems a bit unethical to me. A lot of work goes into the design and testing of these rigs and I know that if someone was to take my rig plans and make units for sale I would be pretty pissed. That said, I am so very glad that I made my own rig and HBS is the place to go if you are interested.

[zakaree]

I also had a thought that just copying someone's plans and making a number of rigs for sale seems a bit unethical to me. A lot of work goes into the design and testing of these rigs and I know that if someone was to take my rig plans and make units for sale I would be pretty pissed. That said, I am so very glad that I made my own rig and HBS is the place to go if you are interested.

i agree.. i dont want to take plans from a company that is currently building and selling.. i want to get plans from someone who might not have the resources to build it. and also. im not planning on selling these and start a company.. ill make 3 or 4 maybeeeee.. most likely.. ill make one for myself and one for the guy who designed it

[mikkowilson]

Zakaree,
Sounds like you best bet is to pick up Cody Deegan's book of plans. It's a ready set of plans to build yourself a simple rig that many people have done successfully. It's a good starting point.

And do get involved over at HBS too, there is much to be learned about home built rigs there.


The story Mattin tells is a prety common one.


No I haven't seen CK's rig in person. Just some photos. (There's photos of his system on the HBS forum)

- Mikko

[FiddlerMD]

how about a simple start - some nice billet aluminum gimbals (w/o bearing i guess but if u found a good source for these, all the better. This is the part tha'ts most difficult to make for a home-made stabilizer and people are always looking for those. Just something that would allow a bearing to sit inside of it and allow a handle to be mounted to the outer ring?

[Bob Hill]

Fiddler,
The gimbal is a great place to start. I made up a simple one that is listed in this thread on HBS:

http://hbsboard.com/index.php/topic,339.0.html

It works okay but is nothing compared to my machined gimbal using real high quality bearings (ABEC7). You have to use a very short drop time to make the off the shelf gimbal work.

Bob

[morten]

About a year ago I came up with a completely different and quite basic gimbal design that is unlike anything I've seen before. Unfortunately I haven't had the time, money or equipment to explore this any further. it is designed to operate with a weight arm simmilar to the Merlin or thereabouts where the gimball is positioned at the centre weight point. If you're interested I can post some of my sketches and then people can trash the idea all they want.

the basic premise was to make something that didn't really require a lot of complicated parts and I think I came up with something quite clever. We'll see.

mor10

[siniarch]

zakaree,
where in CA are you. I'm in LA and I wouldn't mind meeting you one of these days and taking a look at the shop. I could also purchase Cody's plans and maybe if we both rack our brain, we can come up with a good design for much less than the professional rigs.
Let me know if you are interested.

[Chris Geukens]

I've been waiting for a post about stabilizers. I built a version of Cody's rig and finished it just about a week ago. let me tell you these are some great plans, though they have a few confusing parts. It was no easy task and no one should consider it to be a one or two day project. Though I'm only sixteen so maybe you could get it don a little faster. I used a lathe, mill, and sander; that's really all you need for cody's basic plans. I've been thinking about selling home built stabilizers since I started but haven't really had anyone interested. but like i was saying they're great plans; I'm located in Orange county CA if anyone needs some help with one.

I've got some pix if anyone wants to check it out http://www.eocfu.com/iab/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=52

[FiddlerMD]

About a year ago I came up with a completely different and quite basic gimbal design that is unlike anything I've seen before. Unfortunately I haven't had the time, money or equipment to explore this any further. it is designed to operate with a weight arm simmilar to the Merlin or thereabouts where the gimball is positioned at the centre weight point. If you're interested I can post some of my sketches and then people can trash the idea all they want.

the basic premise was to make something that didn't really require a lot of complicated parts and I think I came up with something quite clever. We'll see.

mor10
i'm interested

[siniarch]

Hey. where did you get all those tools, and all that equipment. that's pretty cool. How much weight do you think your rig can hold? I think cody's basic plans are for 12lb and below. And how long did it take you to build (man hours) and how much for parts?
Thanks

[Logan LeBlanc]

I'm down, zak. Anything cheaper/as effective as the pro ones is always welcomed, right?

[Chris Geukens]

To answer your questions:

1. I got the tools in my dad's machine shop and I got the parts from http://www.mcmaster.com/ They are located in L.A. CA
2. Cody's site and the book differ substanually on weight that the rig can hold. In the back of the book there is a section that tells you what tension and size your springs need to be and with the highest tension springs he says the rig can handle 37 pounds. This includes the sled, mine weights about 7 pounds so it should, according to the book, be able to hold a 30 pound camera. I must stress though that i have not tried anything heavier than an HVX200, YET. I will be attempting to mount an AG-DVC-200 within the next two weeks and will let you all know what my findings are.
3. It cost about $800-$1000, depending on weather or not you count the LCD, some of the cables, and some other stuff.

[Bob Hill]

Make sure you are looking at the correct Cody rig. There are actually two different rigs.

Bob

[tomthemacman]

I suppose I should chime in here. I've built 5+ incarnations of rigs over the last few years, all without pre-done plans, and most built in my home shop. Lately, I just built a system which is quite nice, still need to order a few leather parts for the vest, and the springs for the arm ($70 each - OUCH). But still, it's a nice rig, and should hold roughly 15 pounds of camera. Not too bad, eh? Well, I will say that it is a TON tougher than you'd think. Heck, to make this latest rig happen, I became a bit of an apprentice machinist for a summer, and it took me a good full month of working on it just to machine the pieces on a Bridgeport, with a $100 an hour machinist standing over my shoulder. In my arm alone, there are over 30 parts, each of which needs to be machined to plus or minus 1-2 thousandths, and all of the bearings need to be press-fit in, which requires that the holes be a few ten thousandths of an inch smaller than the bearings. It's a really quite tough job, and although the parts may seem simple, some of the parts that had to be made had to be made in an incredibly intricate way.

Plus, the plans truly are the hard part, and except for Cody's plans, I don't think you're going to get much else from someone. I had to build 3 full rigs to get it right, each going up and up in price (my current one was around $1000, without machining costs, which could have easily tripled the price).

Just take a good look at what you have, who your customers would be, and what you can make reasonably without losing large amounts of money. Then, and only then, can you start to make decisions about what you want in terms of plans.

[charles]

Let me chime in here for a second.

1. The very first thing you have to ask yourself is, are you prepare for going into something of this scale?

2. Do you have the time?

3. Do you have the budget?

4. Are you sure you want to do this?

5. Do you want a descent enough system or a system that works reasonably well or exceptionally well????

Now, if you answer all the above with a 'YES', then my advice is this. Ask yourself this:

1. What weight do I want to fly or expected to fly?

2. Do I want a dual or single arm?

3. what material do I want to work in? (Even some of the most obvious questions can turn out to be not so obvious)

4. How practical do I want the system to be?

5. How compatible?

6. How much am I going to invest in this project to get the quality that is expected?


Obviously you are going to go with a full rig so the first thing you have to get right, form the get go, is the gimbal. If this part of the rig doesn't work correctly then you can throw the rest of the rig out the window. There will be no use for it. No matter what people will tell you; 'that you don't need a gimbal to get the perfection of a true stabilizer', is bulls!!! No gimbal - No stabilizer!! No discussion.

I would suggest before you start to buy parts you should do a CAD drawing of every single component. Get it right in a mechanical program first. This way you will be able to see where faults are located. Get a machinist and/or mechanic to look over the drawing. Believe me. What looks good on paper doesn't always mean it will work the way you want it. For the gimbal, I suggest you get it it professionally done. You need the tight tolerance otherwise you will get to know what a bad day means when it is time to balance your rig ;) Last but not least. Is take your time. The preparation is the longest of all than the actual machining of the parts.

[twocik23]

Well said Charles! I definitely agree with the gimbal part, I'm redesigning mine as we speak.

[Robban E.]

Let me chime in here for a second.

1. The very first thing you have to ask yourself is, are you prepare for going into something of this scale?

2. Do you have the time?

3. Do you have the budget?

4. Are you sure you want to do this?

5. Do you want a descent enough system or a system that works reasonably well or exceptionally well????

Now, if you answer all the above with a 'YES', then my advice is this. Ask yourself this:

1. What weight do I want to fly or expected to fly?

2. Do I want a dual or single arm?

3. what material do I want to work in? (Even some of the most obvious questions can turn out to be not so obvious)

4. How practical do I want the system to be?

5. How compatible?

6. How much am I going to invest in this project to get the quality that is expected?


Obviously you are going to go with a full rig so the first thing you have to get right, form the get go, is the gimbal. If this part of the rig doesn't work correctly then you can throw the rest of the rig out the window. There will be no use for it. No matter what people will tell you; that you don't need a gimbal to get the perfection of a true stabilizer, is bulls!!! No gimbal - No stabilizer!! No discussion.

I would suggest before you start to buy parts you should do a CAD drawing of every single component. Get it right in a mechanical program first. This way you will be able to see where faults are located. Get a machinist and/or mechanic to look over the drawing. Believe me. What looks good on paper doesn't always mean it will work the way you want it. For the gimbal, I suggest you get it it professionally done. You need the tight tolerance otherwise you will get to know what a bad day means when it is time to balance your rig ;) Last but not least. Is take your time. The preparation is the longest of all than the actual machining of the parts.

Some really good points Charles. Thank you for that.

[charles]

Thanks Robban.

BTW, you should let me see your gimbal when're done or in the building progress. It'll be cool to see what design you come up with :)

[Emanuel]

This is the freakin' twilight zone... we went through this EXACT same scenario about 1.5 years ago... I mean EXACT EVERYTHING... I thought this was a revived thread... I was one of the ones who said I'd pay $1500 for what was going to be the Cody stabilizer in it's fully realized state... then the thread simply died out... I said I was flying into LA anyway and that I'd meet this guy and pay him and pick it up... then the thread dies...

So are we going to simply repeat the same thread again?

If so I'll save you the time... if you can do a Cody stabilizer for $1500 then I'm in... and you'll sell at least 3 more... but you'll have 10 people that say they will buy and only 4 of us will actually follow through if you follow through.For those would like to know what these guys are talking about, here is an useful link:

http://www.cafepress.com/stabilizer/850814

Hope this helps.

[MagicCat]

Zackaree

Check out www.homebuiltstabilizers.com If you are a DIY guy, or entrepreneur, this site is nothing short of fantastic. Every hardware gadget from flying a cam to Jib's to Dollies are what that entire site is about. They recently came out with a book I think too. Dont forget to check out the Body Rig systems. There are tension and spring calculators right there on line if your making a Steadycam type rig. Very helpful and will take out hours of miscalculations.

Next to DVXuser.com it is my favorite site to visit and drool over. Truly a candy store for the DIY Camguy/girl crowd. Lots of links to Manufacturers and parts wholesalers too.

I have a couple things I would not mind having made myself if your CNC machining is in my budget range. Please PM me so I can find you.

MagicCat

[Steve Lazur]

In 1980, after seeing The Shining, I decided to build my own Steadicam. It took me nearly 3 years, but I finished my prototype and have used it ever since. I was working as a machinist at the time for Photosonics. I was able to make a few parts after work. After leaving there, I worked for a company that didn't even allow you to think about using the machines for your own projects. So I signed up at local colleges where I finished most of the rig. At times I paid other people to make parts for me. Not cheap. The amount of work that went into my stabilizer would bring tears to your eyes. The failures and the redesigns. The misunderstood concepts. There are still parts of it that I would like to redesign.

I've also made a portable dolly/crane, as well as gyros, an electric tilt or pan head and a manual barrel roll head. I have a half finished car mount.

The plus side of all that work was that I got to meet many filmmakers. I had something that no one else had. Back in the 80's we shocked many people with Steadicam shots in student super 8 films. The professor wanted me to build one for the college.

My recommendation would be not to go through the trouble of making your own camera stabilizer. If your a filmmaker, find another way to get the shot, rent a rig, or hire someone who owns a rig. Ultimately you'll spend more time making a rig than shooting film. It's not that I think that I did something that no one else can do, it's just that today there are more options and by the time you get a working rig, you could have finished a couple of films.

Now if your a machinist, a Steadicam is a great project. I love machining, for myself, so I found it very exciting. I even showed the thing to get promotions at work.

Sadly the rig has been laying in my closet waiting for the right camera.

If I can help anyone, I shall try, I've been through it all.

[chuck coburn]

Hi Steve,

Photosonics..are they still in business? Use to, and still do love those cameras as they spun merrily along at hundreds of f.p.s.
Which one was it, the 4E that had more claws and reg pins then you could count on both your hands? lol Those cameras are a testimonial to the camera makers craft.

Chuck

[Steve Lazur]

Photosonics is still in business. I see them at the local film production shows. They are into video too, somehow. I use to machine those pulldown claws and magazines. I forget the camera numbers, but they had a 70mm camera with a movement that would take your breath away.

[charles]

So how are things going guys? Still on going or have you guys given up?

[JasonFox]

i agree.. i dont want to take plans from a company that is currently building and selling.. i want to get plans from someone who might not have the resources to build it. and also. im not planning on selling these and start a company.. ill make 3 or 4 maybeeeee.. most likely.. ill make one for myself and one for the guy who designed it

Hey, I've got Cody's book if you'd like to buy it. It's way beyond my level of experience or equipment.