We got them

[MLCinema]

We just got our 2 new V1U's.

I will post footage ASAP.

:)

[Sean Michael]

Bring it on!

I'm particularly interested in seeing 24p, if possible. :beer:

[t-h-e-w-h-o]

24P please.

If you need hosting for it and dont have a good direct source, i will give you one month of dvxhost.com's service for free to host the footage. :) Im really excited.

[AuditoryVisuals]

24p would be great. RAW m2t too. And don't get footage of you paragliding! How about some high contrast footage to really see how wide a dynamic range these 3CMOS clearvid sensors really are.

[Bogdan]

ML, could you also post i and p screenshots for comparison? From early reports on NTSC model, progressive looks noticably softer. Not to say it looks bad (it's a real problem with European version), just that true p should not display such side effects.
Thank you.

[MLCinema]

Ok, I shot some footage in 1080 60i and 1080 24p and I have to say they both look GREAT!

I have a 40in Samsung LCD, so I used the HDMI and it's very nice.

I don't have the HD yet I am shooting on tape so I don't have any m2t files, but I will upload them as QT movies.

I don't know if this happens with other cameras, but when I digitized the footage Final Cut Pro and I guess the camera split the clips into smaller clips. This happened when I stopped recording. Does that make since????

Ok....I have 10 min. of footage and I shut the camera off lets say 10 times so I have 10 one min. clips after digitizing. I have never seen this happen before, but I like it. And yes it's continuous time code. I guess the camera tells the editing system to do this????

I will post pictures ASAP, but it may take a little longer for the clips....for some reason I am really busy....figures, now that I have a new toy :huh:

[Kholi]

24p would be great. RAW m2t too. And don't get footage of you paragliding! How about some high contrast footage to really see how wide a dynamic range these 3CMOS clearvid sensors really are.

Agreed. Let's see some traffic or people walking or something with a lot going on in frame.

If you post stills, post them with video! Sorry if we're asking too much!

[LuckyStudio 13]

and please tell us you have some sort of a 35mm adapter as well ! :p

[Sean Michael]

when I digitized the footage Final Cut Pro and I guess the camera split the clips into smaller clips.

In Premiere (and I assume FCP), if you capture with "scene detect" enabled, the editing software will automatically separate clips, based upon when the camera was paused and restarted. It's actually a handy feature when you just want to click "record" with a tape and step away.

So with that out of the way...give us 24p! :dankk2:

[MLCinema]

Nope no 35mm adaptor. Out of the box camera....no change in settings either.

I will go out and recorde some traffic in 60i and 24p. Also I will use some of the contrast modes. I have not used them yet.

I can say the footage even looks good on a SD DVD.

Now I need a movie to shoot :)

I need some help....I am using FCP 5.1.2 and I am trying to export a still frame, but when I export it the picture is always in 4x3 and looks weird. What am I doing wrong? I can export a movie fine, but a still frame is weird????!!!!

Any ideas?

[t-h-e-w-h-o]

Nope no 35mm adaptor. Out of the box camera....no change in settings either.

I will go out and recorde some traffic in 60i and 24p. Also I will use some of the contrast modes. I have not used them yet.

I can say the footage even looks good on a SD DVD.

Now I need a movie to shoot :)

I need some help....I am using FCP 5.1.2 and I am trying to export a still frame, but when I export it the picture is always in 4x3 and looks weird. What am I doing wrong? I can export a movie fine, but a still frame is weird????!!!!

Any ideas?

can you PLEASE post some sample footage. :)

[Kholi]

THEWHO offered space for hosting right? Sample footage !!!

[t-h-e-w-h-o]

THEWHO offered space for hosting right? Sample footage !!!

yes, i did. That offer goes for anyone. I cant decide wheather to buy a V1U or the canon A1. I need to decide before december 24th.

[AuditoryVisuals]

I cant decide wheather to buy a V1U or the canon A1. I need to decide before december 24th.

Are you going to rush to B&H and buy yourself a last minute Christmas present?

[t-h-e-w-h-o]

Are you going to rush to B&H and buy yourself a last minute Christmas present?

well, not really an xmas gift, im selling my dvx100b friday with all its extras and i need a cam to shoot a music video in hawaii with for monday. lol

[limeyx]

Nope no 35mm adaptor. Out of the box camera....no change in settings either.

I will go out and recorde some traffic in 60i and 24p. Also I will use some of the contrast modes. I have not used them yet.

I can say the footage even looks good on a SD DVD.

Now I need a movie to shoot :)

I need some help....I am using FCP 5.1.2 and I am trying to export a still frame, but when I export it the picture is always in 4x3 and looks weird. What am I doing wrong? I can export a movie fine, but a still frame is weird????!!!!

Any ideas?

I think because it gets exported in 1440x1080 not 1920x1080.
You have to resize the image in Photoshop or iPhoto or aperture etc.
I have resorted to importing the clip into iMovie and exporting a still from there. Seems to do the job.

[MLCinema]

Ok everyone I will shoot and post some footage tomorrow (22nd)

I have been busy.

I will recorde some traffic in 60i and 24p. No change in camera settings....out of the box footage. No color correction or anything :)

I have hosting....I am guessing the footage will be posted no later than 7pm est.

[AuditoryVisuals]

Excelent! I am very exited!

[MLCinema]

Sorry everyone....it's RAINING outside :crybaby:

I just can't get myself to take the new camera outside in the rain.

Tomorrow will be the day....if no rain.

[MLCinema]

Well the videos are uploaded....(just quick traffic shots)

These are the links....but I cant seem to get them to work????

http://www.missinglinkcinema.com/httpdocs/dvxuser/60i.mov

http://www.missinglinkcinema.com/httpdocs/dvxuser/624p.mov

Any ideas as to what I am missing?

[epicedium]

remove the httpdocs/

[anthony jackson]

Will the M2 adapter that fits the fx1 fit on the HVR V1U

[rjk2000]

Well the videos are uploaded....(just quick traffic shots)

Any ideas as to what I am missing?

I double-checked for you, and these are the correct locations and filenames:

http://www.missinglinkcinema.com/dvxuser/60i.mov

http://www.missinglinkcinema.com/dvxuser/24p.mov

[Sean Michael]

I've downloaded but am having trouble viewing the files with Quicktime. What codec am I missing? (Sorry if this is a pedestrian question.)

BTW, thanks for posting the files!

[xray]

Can't read the 24p QT file, QT is hanging.
cheers,

[Drew Ott]

Files work fine with VLC.

[Emanuel]

Both files? Just the 60i with both players but not the 24p. VLC, QT either.

[MLCinema]

So I don't have to put the httpdocs in the link....THANK YOU.

They work for me. They are just exported from FCP using HDV 60i and HDV 24p. About 60 to 80 MB each.

I will be posting much better footage soon. These shots were very quick with not much setup.

[STORYTELLER32]

My Quicktime wants to search for additional software to view the footage. This might be because you're compressing using in HDV which is a specific codec. I guess HDV isn't currently supported with quicktime? How about compressing them in H.264?

To answer your FCP question earlier: If you started and stopped your recording while shooting (stopped, not paused) that would explain why FCP chopped your footage into different clips. You probably have your capture settings set to "create new clilp on timecode break" in your user preferences. When you start and stop recording the footage, it creates a break in the timecode read by the NLE. You can change that in your user preferences, but I wouldn't if you're going to use the log and capture and not just use capture now.

[Virtual-one]

don't work

[gabrielflorit]

Files don't play in VLC or QT for me.

[AuditoryVisuals]

What happened to giving us m2t's?

[Elton]

The 24p .mov looks wrong. First of all, the V1U's 24p is actually carried in a 29.97 60i stream, and this clip appears to drop frames and show interlace (pulldown frames) artifacts.

My guess is that it was captured with FCP's 1080 24p HDV capture preset (24F support) instead of the normal 1080i 29.97 fps HDV preset.

So far, all I've seen from the V1U seems to indicate that Sony's choice of carrying 24p within 60i is a waste of precious bandwidth. I would imagine that 25p mode should actually have less artifacts because of the lower frame rate recorded.

I'm sure better material will come along though, and then we can see how good their encoder is.

[AuditoryVisuals]

Can I make another suggestion? Give us high contrast, no gain, 24p (captured as 60i), m2t's.

And another with low contrast, low light, high gain, 24p as 60i, m2t's.

And with both 24p clips, 1/48th of a second shutter speed.

[MLCinema]

Elton you are right! How am I supposed to capture the 24p clips? Not 1080 24p????

Is the Sony camera not supported by FCP yet?

AuditoryVisuals how do I get m2t files? Capture from the tape in a different way?

I don't know why the clips are not working....they work fine for me via QT 7.1.3

[AuditoryVisuals]

I'm not sure what program you could use to capture m2t's on a mac... I'm a PC user. But I know enough about FCP to know they are automatically converted to Quick Time MPEG-2's... Sorry if I'm no help.

[Drew Ott]

OK yeah 24p didn't work. Super late response.

[Elton]

How am I supposed to capture the 24p clips? Not 1080 24p????

If you have the full Mac OSX 10.4 installed, just use DVHSCap which will simply capture the raw m2t, which is located in the developer folder in your main disk directory.

The path should look like this: Developer/FireWireSDK20/Applications/DVHSCap

[t-h-e-w-h-o]

so is sonys 24p a joke?

[scharky]

It's not a joke, it's 24P, but there is something funky about it. Here is my experience with the V1U. I had a b- roll camera running at a recent shoot, and the operator brought his new V1U, so I thought we would try it out for B roll. Everything went fine and I captured the footage as I normally would in Vegas 7. Upon looking at the footage I noticed something immediatly wrong with it. Frames were blending, stuttery, crappy, yuk. THen I noticed that all the clips were being read as 29.97 within vegas. What, Sony can't capture it's own footage right but can get the canon footage with no problem. No problem I figured, I went into the properties of the first clip and clicked the enabable 2:3 pulldown. Went back played the clip, still bad. Finially figured out that I had to tell vegas what frame to start the pulldown removal. Well, I said, I guess it isn't that bad I'll just apply this to all the clips. NOpe, each clip started the pulldown on a different frame, what a pain in the ass. So basically you have to tell your NLE exactly where to remove pulldown in order to get the true 24P footage. After that it looks pretty decent, but it's such a pain, especially if you have alot of clips. If sony's own software can't handle the V1U correctly, what are the other NLE's doing?

[Sean Michael]

Sony just released an update for Vegas to handle V1U 24p. Did you have the update installed? I'm trying not to pass judgement on V1U 24p until we have all the software issues sorted.

[t-h-e-w-h-o]

It's not a joke, it's 24P, but there is something funky about it. Here is my experience with the V1U. I had a b- roll camera running at a recent shoot, and the operator brought his new V1U, so I thought we would try it out for B roll. Everything went fine and I captured the footage as I normally would in Vegas 7. Upon looking at the footage I noticed something immediatly wrong with it. Frames were blending, stuttery, crappy, yuk. THen I noticed that all the clips were being read as 29.97 within vegas. What, Sony can't capture it's own footage right but can get the canon footage with no problem. No problem I figured, I went into the properties of the first clip and clicked the enabable 2:3 pulldown. Went back played the clip, still bad. Finially figured out that I had to tell vegas what frame to start the pulldown removal. Well, I said, I guess it isn't that bad I'll just apply this to all the clips. NOpe, each clip started the pulldown on a different frame, what a pain in the ass. So basically you have to tell your NLE exactly where to remove pulldown in order to get the true 24P footage. After that it looks pretty decent, but it's such a pain, especially if you have alot of clips. If sony's own software can't handle the V1U correctly, what are the other NLE's doing?

wow, what a pile of sh*t. Can anyone else confirm they had this issue? Also, in vegas is there an option like in AE or premiere called "Guess 24P pulldown"? That seemed to always work for me when in AE, but then again its for 24PA.

I would be curious to see if others can confirm this horrible problem?

[MLCinema]

Nope, the only thing I have in my Developer folder is a folder titled Examples.

[scharky]

I was running vegas 7.0c, as far as I know that is the most recent version of Vegas, unless there is an update specifically for the V1U.

[Curtis_Rhoads]

MLCinema : If you don't have DVHSCap in your Developer's folder, then you need to go to Apple's site and download the DevTools that contain it. Search for DVHSCap through Google or on Apple's site, and it will point you to the proper file to download.

scharky : Vegas 7.0c was supposed to be the update that made it possible for Vegas to undestand the 24P from the V1U... So much for that working out properly! :)

[magi1500]

The V1U has a three prog scan modes: 24p, 24p SCAN A, and 30p. If you use 24p SCAN A, then it resets the cadence every time you pause the camera. When you capture your tape, be sure every time you paused the cam it creates a new clip, and now you've got a bunch of clips with A frames in the same place. This makes it easy to batch pull down everything. I'm sure this is exactly why they added the 24p SCAN A mode. (Note it is NOT in the V1U's manual, it is on the pink CHANGES TO THE PRINTED MANUAL updated sheet that was inside your V1U's box...) This should fix the problems you guys are having. It fixed it for me with Final Cut. 24p footage is squeaky clean and perty.

[Interpolator]

Thanks for the tip

[scharky]

Then what is the point of the 24P mode? Why on earth would you ever want to shoot it if it is just going to give you messy footage later on?

[Barry_Green]

The V1's 24P mode is like the DVX's 24p mode (not 24pA). If you're editing on a 60i timeline, why would it be a problem?

The issue is if you want to edit on a 24p timeline. Unless your editing program gets updated to strip out pulldown, you can't do it with V1 footage.

[filmmaker1977]

i didn't understand yet.. there is or not a BIG nono w/ this new sony's toy? :grin:

(sorry guys but that big grin is just a private joke out there.. some guys give me a good laugh sometimes.. nothing sony related)

[magi1500]

I did pull my footage down leaving me the clean 24p and it looks great. Same basic principle as the DVX100. Yes, you could cut at 60i, but I always thought that was kind of silly. You're adding 20% more hard drive space for yucky interlaced frames, and you're stuck at 29.97 forever. I'd rather cut 24p, finsih 24p, and then pull it up to 29.97 if I need to deliver that way. So yes, this cam has no problem leaving you with 24 frames if you pull out the 2 in the 3:2. I could not do it in an automated way because Final Cut doesn't support the cam yet (I had to use Cinema Tools, etc...), but it worked just fine. If you shoot in 24p (not 24p Scan A Mode), the cadence is not clean over camera pauses. Shoot 24p Scan A Mode, generate new clips with start stop detection (Final Cut does this automatically if you use AIC), and you'll have a folder full of clips with A frames in the same place. You can then batch pull them down. This will certainly be easier when our software supports the cam and removes the frames on capture (hopefully late spring if you're an FCP user). Until then we'll have to do extra work, but I expected that.

[AuditoryVisuals]

After all this hassle with 24p, I'm pretty much sold for the true 24fps recording of the XH A1.

[magi1500]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the HX A1's shutter only does 30 frames a second. It isn't true 24p. It is a very convincing software emulation.

[scharky]

well. . . since you said so, your wrong. In 24F the A1's shutter can go from 1/3, 1/6 1/12 1/24/ 1/48 etc. The camera actually switches to a 48hz mode which does indeed give you true 24P motion. I'm sure as long as Canon is calling it F and everyone else calling it P there will always be this question, but it is indeed a different means to the same end.

[Elton]

After all this hassle with 24p, I'm pretty much sold for the true 24fps recording of the XH A1.

There's a lot to be said for the efficient use of the 25 mbs HDV bandwidth when it comes to progressive recording.

I believe the Sony's codec is a little less robust than Canon's in 24F/P mode because it's wasting 20% of the bit rate on redundant frames and I believe it also forces the use of longer GOP. (15 frame GOP)

There are legitimate reasons to go with 24p embedded in 60i, however. It's much easier to intercut this with "live looking, hyper realistic" 60i footage in a 60i timeline because they technically share the same frame rate as far as a NLE is concerned.

[magi1500]

I used the word shutter incorrectly. What I meant was that the XH A1 always records 30 interlaced frames per second. It cannot record 24 fps progressive scan. It always records interlaced (60i) and uses software to create a progressive look when it lays it to tape. Hence my response to a previous post that it has no "true 24 fps". I just wouldn't use the word "true" there. In the end I'm sure its semantics if the Canon produces an image with filmlike motion.

this is from camcorderinfo.com, but I've seen it elsewhere:
The XH A1 cannot record video in “true 24p” opting instead for 24F - and this may be perceived by many as the biggest shortcoming of Canon’s high-end models. We are unconvinced that this should be a deal-breaker for DPs looking for a camcorder that records full-frame video for two reasons: The video resolution and image controls on the XH A1 are arguably superior to those offered by other camcorders in a similar price range, and 24F differs only in that its full-frame video originates from an interlaced imaging system.

[Elton]

I used the word shutter incorrectly. What I meant was that the XH A1 always records 30 interlaced frames per second.

No it doesn't *always*. HDV 24F is a true 24fps recording. It is a progressive 24p sequence created from an interlace CCD system.

30F is a true 30 fps recording with no interlace artifacts.

Most agree the F modes are basically progressive results via other means.

[AuditoryVisuals]

I guess it just goes to show you how honest Canon is about there progressives and interlaced! They refuse to call it 24p for the reason that it is taken with interlaced sensors, but is true 24p none the less. Even though other company's may do the same thing, they call it 24p!

I'm guessing that 1440x1080 non square pixel progressive sensors are expensive. And to keep the price down, Canon decided on interlaced sensors.

[Elton]

No, I think Canon chose interlace CCD's because 1080i is the more entrenched HD standard and they wanted to make a camera that played well with it. There is also a signifigant sensitivity boost using interlace, and the F modes are simply their way of trying to give as much versatility to the owner as possible.

[icicle22]

No, I think Canon chose interlace CCD's because 1080i is the more entrenched HD standard and they wanted to make a camera that played well with it. There is also a signifigant sensitivity boost using interlace, and the F modes are simply their way of trying to give as much versatility to the owner as possible.


I am mostly into progressive stuff but I do like to shoot 60i occasionaly for that Dicovery HD WOW picture of the world look. The H1 freed me up to do that. I had an HVX but with only 2 4GB cards I could only shoot a few minutes of either 1080 interlaced or 60fps 720P for a reality look. either way, for the most part, I was stuck shooting 720P 24fps if I even wanted a moderate amount of time to work before offloading.