stop animation frame rate choice

[b-rockonomics]

HOLLA!

I am going to be shooting a music video shortly using a lot of stop animation techniques. It may involve matte footage (split screen) of 1080i 24p footage, but the interval recording is only allowed at 60i and 30p. I am scared the animated footage won't sync properly with this other footage due to frame rate difference. Is there a specific way I should capture the animated footage to be properly displayed at 24p?
In other words. How can I shoot 1080i 30p interval recordings to be properly displayed at 1080i 24p?

HOLLA back. Thanks a ton for all your help.

[SurJones]

I would defintley like to see something someone has done on a professional level. there have been some of us who used it to do some stop motion-looking things. Bens mowing the lawn one was probably the most Gumby-ist looking thing.

[jwfilm]

Once again, both for interval recording and real stop motion filming I can only advice to use stop motion software such as Istopmotion, StopmotionPro or Animaide. The latter has some difficulties with the HVX, but the other two work fine. You can define whatever framerate you want for the resulting film.

[Arson]

if you are going to do real stop motion with puppets or whatever then interval mode will not work. Unless you can guarantee your animators will have completed each pose within the interval time. For cleaner results shoot it with a digital SLR camera and then import the frame sequence as footage in After Effects or an editor.

If you just want time lapsed reality use a posterize time filter that will skip frames and make a timelapse look from real time footage

[b-rockonomics]

low budget for one... so no slr choice for me... same with software. So I can shoot the interval 30p and just shoot at 24fps?

[Jim Arthurs]

Once again, both for interval recording and real stop motion filming I can only advice to use stop motion software such as Istopmotion, StopmotionPro or Animaide. The latter has some difficulties with the HVX, but the other two work fine. You can define whatever framerate you want for the resulting film.

Do any of these work with the HD footage from the HVX over firewire, or only SD? I see no mention of DVCPRO 100 support from any of these at their websites.

As to the framerate of stop-motion recorded with the HVX, simply load the footage into After Effects, and set the frame-rate of the clip to match what your live action is recorded at. No problem. Just remember when animating to treat your timing as if it was your desired frame rate as opposed the the "real" recorded frame rate.

Regards,

[b-rockonomics]

uh.... I don't have after effects my friend. In final cut I can just capture at 24fps?


-thanks for all the help by the way, I appreciate it

[ozduc]

There seems to be a mis-understanding in this thread between time lapse and stop animation. The "interval" record function on the HVX would be used for timelapse shoots. For stop animation shoots you would use the "one shot" record function. They are two totally different modes.
Interval mode shoots 1 frame every "x" amount of frames or seconds (depending on your setting) and the camera rolls continuously until you hit stop.
One shot mode records "x" amount of frames (up to 1 second) continuously, each time you hit record and then the camera stops automatically. It wont record again until you hit record, so that gives you all the time you need to reset your puppets or whatever you are shooting. Best to have a locked off shot and use the camera remote to start recording.
BTW Ben's lawnmowing was timelapse or interval recording not one shot stop animation.

[Jim Arthurs]

uh.... I don't have after effects my friend. In final cut I can just capture at 24fps?

-thanks for all the help by the way, I appreciate it

I have no Mac/FCP experience. In general the goal is to simply "tell" the file to playback at your desired frame rate vrs. the recorded framerate. Some NLE's let you do that, some don't. Vegas does, I assume FCP does as well. AE makes it really easy to do.

If it doesn't, simply write the file/files out as image sequences (tiffs, png, etc.) and reload, assigning your desired framerate to the image sequence. This method will always work anywhere.

Valid point by Ozduc about single frame recording vrs. interval. In general, the HVX is a great tool for stop-motion and interval work. DSLR's are great, as they give you RED quality and resolution at a low price. However, there are times when it's important to record your single frame work with the same lens and the same camera that you do your live action with... the HVX is perfect for that... reminds me of the days when I used to expose on one side of the frame with my Bolex, backwind the film and reverse the matte in front of the camera, then do some time-lapse...

[Jason Ramsey]

Ozduc has hit the nail on the head. You want to use the frame record mode, lock the camera down, and use a remote. No need to get fancy. You said low budget. The HVX has the capability to do stop motion recording in the mode mentioned by ozduc. Barry says so on the bootcamp dvd vol. 1 (plug)

Jason

[b-rockonomics]

yeah I know about the time lapse stuff and one shot modes, I was drunk the past two days... ha ha ha I meant to say "I am shooting one shot 1080i 30p".

I do apologize for my mistake.

[Matty_g]

so you're asking if you should shoot on 1's or 2's?
what are you going to be animating?

[ozduc]

Well if you shoot the regular footage in 24p (not advanced) and drop it into a 1080i/60(59.94i) timeline, then the 30p "one shot" recorded footage should intergrate quite easily.
The best way to find out is to shoot some one shot stuff at 30p and also 60i and combine that with some 24p footage in a 1080i/60 timeline and see what looks best to you.

[b-rockonomics]

yeah I was just gonna play with some stuff for a while and see what happens. The whole problem is I just want to retain the film look of 24p (24fps), while shooting 30p...

[Jim Arthurs]

I think the simplest answer to his original question would come if someone with FCP could simply spell out a step-by-step on how to change a QT clip's properties in regards to playback frame rate. Or offer up if a 30fps timelapse clip in a 24fps timeline will playback frame per frame or try to blend and maintain the timeline's framerate...

[ozduc]

The whole problem is I just want to retain the film look of 24p (24fps), while shooting 30p...

30p should be your choice then as that is going to get you closer to the "film look" than 60i. However there is a lot more to the "film look" than just shooting 24p. The settings or scene file in the camera will have an impact, along with lighting, exposure, etc.

[jwfilm]

Do any of these work with the HD footage from the HVX over firewire, or only SD? I see no mention of DVCPRO 100 support from any of these at their websites.

They all work fine with the HD (1080p/i) stream of the HVX. Animaide has difficulties giving you a correct preview. The latency of the live preview is very low on a fast computer. Istopmotion is for mac StopMoPro is for PC.

[Jim Arthurs]

They all work fine with the HD (1080p/i) stream of the HVX. Animaide has difficulties giving you a correct preview. The latency of the live preview is very low on a fast computer. Istopmotion is for mac StopMoPro is for PC.

Thanks! I had no idea, you'd think they'd at least mention this on their websites bold enough that a casual looker would see it...