64min DVCPRO HD 720p 60p HELP

[SurJones]

I am in a extremely messy situation. I cant what I am doing wrong. I shot a Ballet DVCPRO HD 720p 60p Direct capture into Final Cut. High Definition has such great quality in the RAW, and when I compress and Author the DVD, it sucks, no detail, and I loose 1/2 the lighting. I am new to the post production side, and beg for your help. If anyone who works with DVCPro HD and 1 hour to DVD I would greatly appreciate it. Also am I suppose to be using a special DVD?

[Shane Ross]

How are you compressing for DVD? What is your workflow? What applications are you using?

I have great luck using Compressor and the DVD presets. BEST 90 min compression presets. 2-pass VBR.

Then I import into DVD Studio Pro.

[pmpworks]

I just shot a wedding 720p, and also used compressor at best 60 min, took my m2v and ac3 file into bootcamp on my mac and used encore to burn, looked perfect on 51 inch widescreen tv. Just remember if you shot in 1080i it's interlaced and will look bad on a computer monitor, but will play fine on a tv.

[SurJones]

Here are my compression Settings. And also my Waveform. With brightest subject spot on the whole video. The images are not sharp. Looks blurry. My client went the HD way to see the detail, I need them to be able to see that detail.

[SurJones]

I actually check my FinalCut to Compressor Export against the frame of the editing timeline image, and they are almost identical. NOW, When I pop in the DVD, Differnt stary. Night an day on softness. Color and brigthenss is actaully brighter, and blurrier. Brigtheness is not night and day, I wish there was a way to take a snap shot of my DVD, but it says I can when DVD player is open. So to me, it seems as if DVDSP is doing something to it.

[Stu Siegal]

Do you have the option of burning in Toast? Many DVDSP users use this workflow, I've heard similar stories on other forums, might be worth a try. Either way, Toast is a worthwhile purchase.

[SurJones]

Toast Does DVD AUTHORING?

[pmpworks]

I actually check my FinalCut to Compressor Export against the frame of the editing timeline image, and they are almost identical. NOW, When I pop in the DVD, Differnt stary. Night an day on softness. Color and brigthenss is actaully brighter, and blurrier. Brigtheness is not night and day, I wish there was a way to take a snap shot of my DVD, but it says I can when DVD player is open. So to me, it seems as if DVDSP is doing something to it.
Attached Imageshttp://www.dvxuser.com/V6/images/attach/jpg.gifPicture1.jpg (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/attachment.php?attachmentid=1964&d=1166109181) (147.5 KB, 0 views)


Your video size says 720 X 404, SD for DVD should be 720 X 480.

[SurJones]

It is 16:9 not 4:3

[VaricamLife]

Toast can create a video DVD I believe yes, but lacking on menu options and the like. Haven't every actually tried it myself for that. Basically there's the 4 main tabs when you open it, Data, Audio, Video, and Copy. So its the Video tab you'd be interested in. At least that's w/ T7, not sure if older versions were the same or not.

cheers.

[Stu Siegal]

You misunderstood me - author your DVD in DVDSP, but burn it in Toast. When you're done, choose build & format in DVDSP, then burn the resulting VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS folders using Toast.

Search the DVDSP forum over on the cow for discussions on this.

[bigbossbmb]

My client went the HD way to see the detail, I need them to be able to see that detail.

But how are you expecting to get HD detail in an SD format? I think your expectations may be a little high. You are going to lose a lot of resolution by burning a DVD. The only way you're going to preserve all of the detail is by going Blu-Ray or HD-DVD.

If there is something wrong, I would make sure that you are compressing at the highest data rate (that doesn't max out most players) and be sure you are compressing the audio to Dolby 2.0 (this gives you a little more headroom for the video data rate. Really, though, HD downrezzed will never look as sharp and detailed as the native video.

[SurJones]

What date rate woudl that be that wont max out most DVD players?

[pmpworks]

I use the preset for 60min DVD best quality, not 90min. Also I believe if you are using 1080i 60i footage it will not look as good as 720p 24p because of the interlasing. I may be wrong here but I never shoot anything but 720p. If I need to I'll do it at 30p instead of 24p. Progressive video seems to look much better when going to DVD from HD.

[SurJones]

PMP- I shot 720p/60p as stated on the first page.

[pmpworks]

Oh, didn't see that, try a sample of your footage at the 60min, best dvd settings, and don't change any of the factory settings.

[VaricamLife]

I believe the theoretical limit of DVD players is like 9.0. In reality though many won't play about the mid-8's. So I'd probably not wanna set my max bitrate higher then 8.2 or 8.3.

That being said, you're not gauranteed to get a direct correlation between higher bit rate and higher quality encode. It will bloat your file size of your MPEG-2 for sure, that's the only gaurantee. I've seen 6/7 max rates perform great in terms of quality.

If you want to preserve HD quality on a regular DVD then you need to burn a data file. Export out as H.264 or use Flip4Mac and go to the Windows HD thing WM9 is it called?. Then the person receiving the disc will have to play it back on a computer, but they will be able to see the details offered by HD.

Otherwise, like mentioned earlier, for over $1,000 and go the Blu-Ray or HD-DVD route. You'll preserve quality for sure, but you're so not getting bang for your buck down that road. Oh plus those two are in a format war right now, so you could end up picking the wrong one. Anyway.

cheers.

[SurJones]

thanks so much, I appreciate all the help thus far. I will tell you how things turn out with some more testing.

[gunleik]

May be off mark here, but

1.
you're shooting at 60p for 60i delivery

2.
Your whites are blown out and will not give you much detail on a TV set. Use the 3-way CC to take down the highlights to below 100, all above will most likely look totally blown without any detail on a regular TV.

3.
Maybe you could salvage more detail by going through a 60p to 24p step (I'm only theorizing here, though) as you'll end up with a p image which is possible to incorporate in a 60i stream.

Just my 2c

Gunleik

[SurJones]

Video Scopes (http://www.allaboutnow.com/Picture5.jpg)

[bigbossbmb]

Video Scopes (http://www.allaboutnow.com/Picture5.jpg)


That screenshot of your scopes definitely shows blown-out whites...you should really fix this before going to DVD. Pure white looks horrible on TVs. On the 'Waveform Monitor' do you see the cloud above the line that reads 'White'? You need to lower the highlights until it is completely under that line or you can apply a broadcast safe filter to the entire sequence (this is probably a better idea).

[SurJones]

NEW VIDEO SCOPES (http://www.allaboutnow.com/Picture10.jpg)

I just finished fixing. Here is the new

[gunleik]

Just came to think of it, as this is to be delivered in SD and you have resolution issues, why not throw the hd clip into a SD (maybe even 4:3) DVCPRO 50 sequence, this way you can scale "up" the image with _more_ resolution than you'll get from a HD 16:9 to SD convert.

If it's a 720 timeline, that should be sorta exactly 2x the SD timeline, pixelwise, gives you some headroom (and autmation issues, I know)

Gunleik

[SurJones]

I use the preset for 60min DVD best quality, not 90min. Also I believe if you are using 1080i 60i footage it will not look as good as 720p 24p because of the interlasing. I may be wrong here but I never shoot anything but 720p. If I need to I'll do it at 30p instead of 24p. Progressive video seems to look much better when going to DVD from HD.


The only 60min is a HD version??

[pmpworks]

oops, yea your right with 90 my bad. I was wondering, why did you shoot 60p?

[SurJones]

Because of the quick motions, jumps etc. Also that what was recommended by Users here who have done Ballets before.

[pmpworks]

I see, probably best for low light too. Have you tried to play the DVD on different TV's? Same problems?

[adkimery]

This might be a stupid question, but are you viewing the DVD on your computer or on a normal TV?

-A

[pmpworks]

SurJones, if you want to, send me a small clip of your encoded dvd and I'll burn it and see what it looks like on my 51" widescreen.

[SurJones]

Pretty much, Color Correcting really helped the blown out whites, BUT, still needs some work on Video Quality. I just want to know the best set up for compressor. I have done many variations, and some I dont even see a difference. I have done so many, They all just bleed togther :)

Here is what I put together from peoples suggestions.. Change anything? anyone thought about doing MPEG4?

[SurJones]

MP said It might be because I shot in 720p 60p that might be the reason why the DVD looks bad. Here is the compression I am doing over night. What do you think. I saw the Best 60min HD DVD setting and it had the Frame controls off. So I thought I would try.

[gunleik]

Forget HD DVD/mpeg4. Won't play on any standard DVD player.

I think you're messing up with your field settings and think you should definitely set your resulting DVD to some sort of progressive, 30p is the most logical, and you should NOT de-interlace progressive footage, you just loose half your rez (yeah I know that's a "sorta" thing to say, but still...)

What you SHOULD (or rather could...) have done (it seems) was to shoot DVCPRO 50...

I still suggest that you salvage even more rez by dropping the 720 60p footage to a DVCPRO 50 timeline and zoom in and automate the motion a bit if you really need more rez. It's in the footage and you can get it out. I still stand by my PM -;)

Gunleik

[pmpworks]

gunleik, will any dvd player playback 30p as progressive video?, I thought progressive scan dvd players only played back 24p. I saw the footage and it's fine on a pc monitor, but on a tv thru a dvd player it's interlaced. It doesn't look terrible but you definatly loose resolution and detail. I suggested magic bullet the footage out to 24p.
pmp

[gunleik]

The whole NTSC thing... -;)

Answer is: Dunno. 25p is working over 50i here in PAL and it sounds more logical than to go to 24p... Try (Or I can I have a NTSC/PAL switchable monitor)

I thnink the advanced format conversion in Compressor may handle this pretty well (but do small tests)

G

[SurJones]

Gunleik; I am not screwing with the HD, just the notion to Keep the FrameControls off. Ecport time was like 4.5 hours for the compression:) The resulting footage looks just like the rest. I dont see a difference. Also how am I deinterlacing the image? I dont mind re-editing this. It is a simple edit. Shot in 60p made sense to edit in a 60p timetline...

[gunleik]

C ur point!

You shouldn't deinterlace it, but it says in your compressor settings that you do...

I noticed the de-interlace here (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/attachment.php?attachmentid=1966&d=1166142106)

But what I suggest is to make small exports (5 sec) of the same segment onto a DVD

Set everything at "best"
Try:
24p
60i

Give one shot to compressor standard, and one to advanced format conversions
Set field dominance to "none" or "progressive"

Put the resulting 4 files on a dvd and burn (via dvdsp and then possibly toast if you like)

For this test I would also have included 5 secs of HD in DVCPRO SD p24 timeline with some reframing, just for the kicks of it - but that's just me -;)

That'd add another 2 files to your 30 sec DVD

Lay them out on one track with chapter markers

Compare on different sets.
Pick what makes you least unhappy.

BTW I don't see any easy 30p setups, so I guess your option to stay in p-land is to go 24 (or 23,98xxxx)

Gunleik

[SurJones]

can you show photoshop circles around the things you see as deinterlacing in the compressor settings?

I also dont know how to convert to 24p? Do i just create a new sequence change the setting so 720p24p time line, Copy the contents in my 60p timeline and paste in the 24p timeline?

Here is the compressor settings I am thinking about doing tonight.

[gunleik]

these looks good.

Just for the test:

To go to p 29.xxx or p24
In compressor choose: advanced format conversion
DV50 NTSC anamorphic

Click the settings tab for video like this (http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/11294/1166198698.jpg)

And choose either of these 1 (http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/11294/1166198772.jpg) or 2 (http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/11294/1166198860.jpg) settings

After finishing, send the resulting file through your compressor mpeg2 routine

Jusrt out of curiosity, though.

Gunleik

[SurJones]

So do I want 24p or 29.97 ?

[gunleik]

Dunno. I'd check both (on a 5 sec clip)

G

[gunleik]

30p (or 29,,,,) if it works is the mathematically best option.
G

[SurJones]

Well there are some options.

Do I want as your pic shows DV50, or So I want DVCPro50? There is also DVCPro 720p24p

[gunleik]

Yep.

I only suggest you test this. Wether you convert to 720 24p or DVCPRO 50 24p is not really the point, but to get it to a conformable p format befor mpeg2 encoding is.

Thus:
Your sugestion may be much better than mine!
(Scratching my head a bit...) Probably is actually!
Try!

And then encode 24p mpeg2

What I hope (but dunno) you'll see is some improved resolution.

Watch out for frame-blending though.

Gunleik

[SurJones]

Okay I so I have some resolve to my issue.

Final Cut> Export Using Compresor> Advanced Conversion>DV50 NTSC 29.97> Progressive 16:9>Frame Controls off. I have not tried on, but will over night, I will set everything to best.

No ghosting, details look decent.