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View Full Version : Sell my dvx and buy XH A1??



t-unit
12-11-2006, 02:55 PM
So people, should i sell my dvx and buy a xh a1?

Brandon Rice
12-11-2006, 03:22 PM
No. If you're going to do anything, sell the DVX and invest in an HVX.

Though of course, you may find the A1 suits your needs better, but personally I'd go for an HVX.

Noel Evans
12-11-2006, 03:32 PM
First I need to ask what are you currently using your DVX for?

Sean Michael
12-11-2006, 03:53 PM
I may go this route.

Personally, I like everything I've seen of the XHA1. The form factor seems very DVX-inspired. And I like the fact it records to good old-fashioned, cheap, and readily available tape. :happy: And the most important factor is the footage, which looks great.

The downside of the A1 to me is simply editing HDV (which isn't too bad) and the fact it doesn't have an SD recording option. No HDMI either.

If you are considering upgrading cameras, look also at the new Sony V1U. It will be a close competitor to the Canon.

t-unit
12-11-2006, 04:24 PM
I use my dvx only as a hobby and i currently use it with a greenscreen setup. I'm only gonna make some shorts for now, maybe some commercials.. and maybe shoot some motocross and skateboard movies. I'm thinking of the hvx, but its the pricetag that makes the XH A1 so nice. And the biggest advantage is that it shoots in 16:9 vs. the 4:3 dvx..

disjecta
12-11-2006, 04:29 PM
No. If you're going to do anything, sell the DVX and invest in an HVX.

LOL, love the snappy answer and your implication that the HVX will suit anyone's needs :)

Brandon Rice
12-11-2006, 05:24 PM
LOL, love the snappy answer and your implication that the HVX will suit anyone's needs :)

Well.... looking at it practically... 4:2:2 colorspace, tapeless workflow, and variable framerates... I don't see how anyone could use the camera and it would suit their needs... may it be overkill for some? Yes. But, I still think because of the 4:2:2 colorspace ALONE it's worth it. IMO :)

disjecta
12-11-2006, 05:25 PM
It doesn't suit my needs. That's just the point I'm making. I'm really not making an issue out of your post other than to say it's a little presumptuous.

Brandon Rice
12-11-2006, 05:26 PM
It doesn't suit my needs. That's just the point I'm making. I'm really not making an issue out of your post other than to say it's a little presumptuous.

I apologize and will edit my post... But, out of curiosity, why wouldn't the HVX suit your needs?

disjecta
12-11-2006, 05:32 PM
P2 cards don't suite my recording style. I could run up to 10 or 20 minutes of tape just to record a bird or animal doing something interesting. I anticipate these things out in the field because I know my subjects well but I can't tell the instant something is going to happen.

Also, and my biggest issue, is that the resolution is not up to par for me. The XLH1, XH A1 and XH G1 all record much higher res picture than the HVX and, for a lot of landscape shooting, this is what is very important to me.

xray
12-11-2006, 05:32 PM
Handheld form factor but it weights 8 pounds with the firestore and than you need a shoulderbrace. Moving from sticks to brace -if you are fast- 1 minute. They are gone. Or you need an assistant to unload the P2 cards. It is not for everyone the best choise.

Brandon Rice
12-11-2006, 05:33 PM
Gotcha. The tape thing makes total sense. In regard to resolution though, it's my understanding that the HVX is DVCPRO-HD which is much better than HDV (which is what the A1 is).

xray
12-11-2006, 05:42 PM
Resolution has nothing to do with the format, you can shoot low res GSM phone video to DVCPROHD if you really want so... Resolution comes from the chips and the A1 chips are higher in res than the HVX. What is, is that the compression system differs HDV or DVCPROHD. The DVCPROHD is better and each frame is independent.

Take a look at long gop versus intraframe editing.

Higher resolution means more 'detail' in the wide shot, its easy to see the difference.

delaro
12-11-2006, 05:44 PM
i really dont like the noise of the hvx. that's the only reason why i didn't bought this cam. i will probably buy the hvx200a if there is one once and if the noise is nicer. but before i'm choosing the A1 and sold my dvx.

Brandon Rice
12-11-2006, 05:48 PM
I'll be curious to see Barry G's article on the two cameras :)

Zim
12-11-2006, 05:51 PM
sell me the DXV cheap and get something else....

xray
12-11-2006, 05:51 PM
Look at all the A1 and HVX clips that are everywhere and make up your own ;-) Both are good cams, but as Disjecta said: it needs to fit you.

Tibby
12-11-2006, 05:59 PM
So people, should i sell my dvx and buy a xh a1?

Yes.

Sean Michael
12-11-2006, 06:28 PM
Brandon, I'm sincerely curious (and not trying to be a smart aleck). How do you archive HVX footage for the long term? Can you export your raw footage to tape? Do you maintain a massive multi-terrabyte hard drive storage archive? Do you have an HD-DVD burner? Or do you just delete it?

That's one of the P2 issues for me. Workflow is another (ala disjecta's wildlife example). But workflow aside, how do you store this stuff for the long term?

That's the beauty of tape. Not only is tape a cheap, durable, reliable, high capacity storage unit...you can find them in rural Guatemala, if you're in a pinch. And it's kind of nice having your original content archived on cheap tapes instead of hard drives.

If the HVX recorded HD to tape, I'd already own one. I'm sold on its other advantages (variable frame rates, DVX mojo, etc.). :thumbsup:

Brandon Rice
12-11-2006, 07:29 PM
I don't actually have an HVX, still using my good ol' DVX. But I am searching out the best HD solution I can afford right now, as I want to upgrade for a feature project this summer. I see what you're saying about archiving. For the project's I've done thus far, I actually save my original tapes, as well as the raw footage on Hard Drives.

Kholi
12-11-2006, 07:35 PM
To the starter of this thread: I'd take the time out to compare and research for myself. 3500 or 5K+?

Do you need 4:2:2 Color? And for what reason? Can you afford p2? If so, can you afford an A1 and a Firestore solution?

You just have to research and find out which is better.

scharky
12-11-2006, 07:48 PM
I'm in the same boat right now, and while I considered for about 5 seconds selling my DVX, i've decided to just add the A1 to my arsenal. I get so many calls right now requesting the DVX, why on earth would I sell it. This thing pays for itself over and over practially every month. On the other end of the story I have lost out on a few jobs becasue I didn't "own" my own HD camcorder. I have done plenty of HD shoots, but there are always people out there that prefere that you own your own equipment. So while I am constantly making money with my DVX I'll have the A1 to start paying for itself as well.

As to the A1 vs the HVX. Well I've done a few shoots with the HVX (actually have a music video in January that we'll be shooting with 2 HVX's) but I prefere using the HVX as a rental camera only. I don't want to invest in P2 cards, you really need to have an AC that can do your loading/ Downloading of the cards whenever you shoot. As far as picture quality I would say the A1 is right up there with the HVX, if not surpassing it a bit when it comes to resolution. When it comes to all the 4:2:2 verses 4:2:0, while I love the flexibility of the 4:2:2 color space I rarely find the need to correct my image farther than a 4:1:1 or 4:2:0 space will start to break down. If you can make DV footage look good, you can make HDV footage look good.
Granted I was as much a skeptic and hater of HDV when it first arrived as the rest of you, but after working with the medium and seeing the great results that follow, it just makes sense to like this camera (A1). I truely feel it is the next DVX.

Jay Rodriguez
12-11-2006, 07:51 PM
I am searching out the best HD solution I can afford right now


Yeah, you'll own an A1 within the next few months.... :happy:

Kholi
12-11-2006, 07:56 PM
Only issue people are having is that there isn't enough footage out from the camera yet. It's all hear-say until you either pick up the camera and use it or until someone knocks out some good narrative footage with it.

Give it til early next year.

Kevin Briggs
12-11-2006, 08:13 PM
My biggest qualm with HDV was the interlaced recording format. I hate interlaced in sd and I assumed it would be similar in HDV. A while ago my opinion changed when I watched some HDV on a 42" Plasma and wow it looks good. I really didn't even notice the interlaced lines.

The xha1 looks like an amazing camera. 20x zoom...nice. This will be my next camera.

Elton
12-12-2006, 12:28 AM
So people, should i sell my dvx and buy a xh a1?

To each his own, but I look at it this way: (frame grab from XH-A1)

DV SD 4x3 Letterboxed :http://www.realm.cc/upload/Elton/SydneySD4x3LB.jpg

16x9 Anamorphic SD :http://www.realm.cc/upload/Elton/SydneySD16x9.jpg
720p HD: http://www.realm.cc/upload/Elton/Sydney720.jpg

1080p/f HD:http://www.realm.cc/upload/Elton/SydneyXHA1-24F.jpg

I like the big frame :)

Kholi
12-12-2006, 12:33 AM
>=\ Everytime I see footage from this camera I get angry at how clean it is. Even the stills look great.

Brandon Rice
12-12-2006, 01:06 AM
Hm. ok. I think those grabs just made up my mind....

Elton
12-12-2006, 01:25 AM
>=\ Everytime I see footage from this camera I get angry at how clean it is. Even the stills look great.

Here's a quick clip from the shoot with the A1: http://www.realm.cc/upload/Elton/YourMove.m2t
(25 MB m2t)

Noel Evans
12-12-2006, 02:15 AM
Hm. ok. I think those grabs just made up my mind....

Come on Brandon.... join us.... join us. :Drogar-Evil(DBG):

Jay Rodriguez
12-12-2006, 06:18 AM
LOL!!!!!

Brandon could of decided the other way around by deciding the HVX was the right cam for him or that he made up his mind to stick with his DVX.....


Join the force Brandon! hehe j/k dude

t-unit
12-12-2006, 08:20 AM
thanx for all the answers, it looks like i will be buying this camera soon. But im not sure i'll sell my dvx anyway. But how is the 25f against 25p?

disjecta
12-12-2006, 08:26 AM
Can't answer that from a PAL perspective but the difference between 24p and 24f to my eye is zero. They look identical.

Brandon Rice
12-12-2006, 09:21 AM
Come on Brandon.... join us.... join us. :Drogar-Evil(DBG):

I am certainly looking that direction... how do I open/edit MT2 clips?

(I use Avid Xpress Pro HD)

Neal Buconjic
12-12-2006, 09:54 AM
Brandon,

You can view the clips with Windows Media Player, but I'm not sure what NLE you can use to "play" with the footage.

Kholi
12-12-2006, 10:22 AM
I don't think you can edit native 24F in Avid Xpress just yet. You'd have to have a different codec. I use Final Cut to bother with the pretty .m2t's, though. If you want to open them, download VLC player from www.videolan.org -- New version is out!!

Brandon Rice
12-12-2006, 10:23 AM
Hm. So, how would I capture A1 footage into Avid?

Kholi
12-12-2006, 10:28 AM
Here's a quick clip from the shoot with the A1: http://www.realm.cc/upload/Elton/YourMove.m2t
(25 MB m2t)

CLEAAANNNNNN. Mmmmm jummy.

I'm not sure how you'd get 24F into Avid, honestly. Vegas and Final Cut are the only ones I know of that handle Canon 24F right now. You'd have to check the Avid site or do some searches on XL-H1 and Avid xPress. More than likely it'll be converting to DVCproHD and then editing in Avid.

Avid takes soooo long to import a clip. It'll be great when Premiere and Vegas support MXF and such natively.

prodigywookie
12-12-2006, 10:54 AM
as they said.. JOIN US!!

Brandon Rice
12-12-2006, 11:04 AM
Once Avid supports it, I will. Elton, I tried to PM you, it didn't work.

Elton
12-12-2006, 04:00 PM
You can send me a message at xlcinema.

Brandon Rice
12-12-2006, 04:09 PM
Where's that?

FatDaddy
12-12-2006, 04:38 PM
I'm hoping Avid will support it in the universal release sometime soon. It would be a surprise this month. Maybe next month, likely, knowing the way things work, Feb.

I will make the switch to the Canon and bump my G4 when Avid rolls out Intel software. The dvx-100 has served me well...

Brandon Rice
12-12-2006, 04:47 PM
Yeah, once Avid supports the A1, it's as good as bought.

Brandon Rice
12-12-2006, 05:49 PM
Here's a quick clip from the shoot with the A1: http://www.realm.cc/upload/Elton/YourMove.m2t
(25 MB m2t)

WOW! Just watched this! Nice nice nice nice

xray
12-12-2006, 06:12 PM
Here's a quick clip from the shoot with the A1: http://www.realm.cc/upload/Elton/YourMove.m2t
(25 MB m2t)

I pushed the contrast and the saturation a little, nice! I like the 'deep' thoughts in this move.

t-unit
12-13-2006, 09:43 AM
Ah, thats nice quality. The only bummer is that i can't find a single shop that has this camera in stock in norway.. by the way, tryed to edit the clip in vegas 6 and it works flawless, so thats a good thing!

Yas Kassana
12-13-2006, 12:46 PM
I just recieved my A1. Gotta say I am blown away. However in saying the HVX is a more flexible camera. I will definitly be renting for a music video and HVX and a good 35mm adapter, is unbeatable, I've not seen anything better. But for bang for buck features the A1 is the winner.

Jay Rodriguez
12-13-2006, 01:53 PM
Where's that?


www.xlcinema.com

Drew Ott
12-13-2006, 07:08 PM
Brandon, you can't import A1 into Vegas, but if you use ConnectHD to change it to its special .avi format (works much better with Vegas) you can import. Not sure if FCP can import the .m2t files, but it "supports" them which is different.

You probably knew that, I can't tell how knowledgable you are on this subject.

disjecta
12-14-2006, 06:36 AM
Not sure what you mean by "you can't import A1 into Vegas". You can capture and edit m2t files without a problem from the A1 using Vega.

icicle22
12-14-2006, 06:41 AM
Not sure what you mean by "you can't import A1 into Vegas". You can capture and edit m2t files without a problem from the A1 using Vega.


Even 24f files? I saw the latest update to Vegas 7 adds support for Sony new camera 24p but I didn't see mention of any Canon 24f support anywhere.

Thanks.

disjecta
12-14-2006, 07:00 AM
Yes, I always use Vegas to capture my 24f files.

Brandon Rice
12-14-2006, 03:28 PM
Brandon, you can't import A1 into Vegas, but if you use ConnectHD to change it to its special .avi format (works much better with Vegas) you can import. Not sure if FCP can import the .m2t files, but it "supports" them which is different.

You probably knew that, I can't tell how knowledgable you are on this subject.

Thanks, but I use Avid, not Vegas for my editing suite, and I do not intend to change. I've tried out Vegas and FCP and much much prefer Avid to those two suites.

xray
12-14-2006, 05:36 PM
I own a Media 100 component/digibeta quality, in the last years I never heard anything on this board for Media100. You know what, I started editing on a Lightworks, in Germany 'filmwerkstatt Essen' during the time the first Avid arrived...

OK, back to the subject.

Emanuel
12-14-2006, 06:11 PM
I started editing on a Lightworks (...) during the time the first Avid arrived...Interesting coincidence: me too...

xray
12-14-2006, 07:11 PM
My pen with the little swimming shark inside broke some years ago...pity! But I must have the book somewhere, lets look...hey! There is the operating instructions for the 'dxc-m3p' ( sony m3). Page 6 button 6. Preheat switch - when this switch is set to PREHEAT power is supplied only to the pickup tubes

xray
12-15-2006, 05:51 PM
Its Fridaynight, I think I go for a beer, no steady hands anyway, to much coffee...

Drew Ott
12-18-2006, 09:59 PM
Disjecta, how did you import .m2t into Vegas?

I went to the search function, and I followed its instructions on changing your capture device program within Vegas, but when I do that, my A1 doesn't show up as connected.