FX7/V1 Latitude

[delaro]

it seems that latitude is not improved with the 3 cmos system.
nothing shows me a latitude difference between fx1 ccd and fx7 cmos on http://www.fxsupport.de/12.html
Image#10 shows highlights and fx1 seems even better.
and i dont understand why they are showing that on their official presentation http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/minisites/HDV1080/HVR-V1U/devices_bc.html
the V1 image is very blurry. the company B image is a lot better.
the fx7/v1 project is weird. the guy who officially introduced the v1 in france explained that v1 positionning is between fx1 and z1 and some others are claiming that it's really better than the z1. do they know what they are doing? it seems that sony doesn't want to give too much for the money. they should look at canon with the A1 marketing policy.

[DavidBeier]

I'm not surprised, I've heard that CMOS can increase the lattitude but it sounds like any gains they are getting are canceled out by the fact that they're now using a 1/4 chip instead of a 1/3 one. I also understand that it's a full stop slower than the FX1 and Z1.

I think your assesment is right. I haven't tried the camera yet but it seems Sony really doesn't know exactly who they're trying to sell this thing too. It's loses much of what the FX1/Z1 pupular (low light prowess, very clean, low noise image) without being able to give progressive HDV camcorders like the A1 a run for their money.

[DavidBeier]

Oh, and company A and B are clearly Panasonic (with the HVX200) and Canon (with either the XLH1 or A1) given the CCD sizes they mention.

As for the comparison, I think they all look about the same. I find that the V1 looks a tad sharper than the others but the colors seem a bit off and the Canon one looks a bit noisier. It's very much a matter of perception. The problem is if they really want to make case for the V1 they need to show some more impressive stuff.

[delaro]

Oh, and company A and B are clearly Panasonic (with the HVX200) and Canon (with either the XLH1 or A1) given the CCD sizes they mention.

As for the comparison, I think they all look about the same. I find that the V1 looks a tad sharper than the others but the colors seem a bit off and the Canon one looks a bit noisier. It's very much a matter of perception. The problem is if they really want to make case for the V1 they need to show some more impressive stuff.

it looks like some kind of edge enhancement, very videoish and not nice at all (look at the edge of the white stones on the right, it looks like if it was the companyB marketing PDF. even the window's right bar is thickened in the process). i'm surprised to see such a bad comparison.

[Bogdan]

Technically there is nothing in CMOS that guarantees better latitude vs CCD. It's rather the opposite, but because CMOS technology is more practical and easier to integrate with other elements (in case of camcorders with amps and AD converters), it attracts more development and resources lately.

ClearVid improves relative photocell active area, but like David says, because the whole sensor is small (1/4") they loose the advantage.

The game between A1 and V1 surely will be interesting, but in many cases choices will be based on subjective judgement. Brand name will be more important factor for many buyers than technical specs and the fact is, Sony sells more in numbers than competitors.

Personally, I find V1 images a little videoish and of sort of plastic appearance. I agree with delaro here.

[Sean Michael]

Where is everyone viewing all this V1 footage? So far, I've only seen one brief progressive clip (and that was 25p). It was posted here on DVXuser. I've certainly not seen any footage captured uncompressed via HDMI output.

It will be interesting to see how the V1, XHA1, and HVX stack up against one another. Looks like each will have compelling and unique strengths.

[delaro]

Where is everyone viewing all this V1 footage? So far, I've only seen one brief progressive clip (and that was 25p). It was posted here on DVXuser. I've certainly not seen any footage captured uncompressed via HDMI output.

It will be interesting to see how the V1, XHA1, and HVX stack up against one another. Looks like each will have compelling and unique strengths.

25p and 24p are the same, there's no visual difference unless you're a xmen.
we're speaking about the official brochure of sony which shows comparison between the v1, the canon and the panasonic. generally they exagerate and show great result for their product. here the result is far from being exciting.
and the fx7 and v1 are based on the same system. so the v1 footages will be better because of the color settings, etc. but not very different. you can find fx7 footages on the net.
i was hesitating between all these cams but it seems that everyday someone here receives the canon A1 and is very very pleased with it and shows us great footages. it really looks like the new dvx100: very powerfull, very cheap, and people are already sharing their presets and are in love with their cam.
and for the A1/hvx comparison we're all waiting for barry green's article

[Barry_Green]

but it seems that everyday someone here receives the canon A1 and is very very pleased with it and shows us great footages. it really looks like the new dvx100: very powerfull, very cheap, and people are already sharing their presets and are in love with their cam.
and for the A1/hvx comparison we're all waiting for barry green's article
I don't know when Jarred will post it, he's got to HTML-it and add the photos and stuff like that. XHA1 is the best of the HDV camcorders currently out (but I haven't tested the V1U). With that said, it's not an HVX. Not by a long shot. But for the price, if you're okay with HDV, the XHA1 is amazing. It's $2,000 less than the JVC, and it's $5,000 less than the XLH1. If I couldn't possibly afford an HVX (which is only $1200 more, but hey, to a lot of people $1200 is a lot of money!) I'd consider the XHA1, and certainly if I had to buy HDV it's the one I'd get. But I think the HVX is a much better product in too many ways that count. Well worth the price differential.

I'm very interested in the V1 as well. Sony's finally doing 24p, they have CMOS chips, they have some sort of magical digital zoom; lots of things interesting about the Sony. And it's the same price (basically) as the Canon, and similar 20x zoom range, similar HDV format... the $4000 price bracket has a lot of action in it.

[delaro]

. If I couldn't possibly afford an HVX (which is only $1200 more, but hey, to a lot of people $1200 is a lot of money!) I'd consider the XHA1,
I'm very interested in the V1 as well. Sony's finally doing 24p, they have CMOS chips, they have some sort of magical digital zoom; lots of things interesting about the Sony. And it's the same price (basically) as the Canon, and similar 20x zoom range, similar HDV format... the $4000 price bracket has a lot of action in it.

well, unfortunately, not for us european customers .... :)
canon a1: 3500€ -> 4650$
sony v1: 5300€ -> 7050$
hvx with 1 8go p2: 7700€ -> 10250$
canon will probably sell a lot in europe.
"canon europe" is much more respectful than "sony" and "panasonic europe".
so, barry, if you had to choose between the 4650$ A1 and the 10250$ HVX which one would you choose? ;)
don't say "RED"

[Barry_Green]

Yeesh. $4650 for the A1, or $10,250 for the HVX? Obviously those are totally different price classes, and while I think the HVX is unquestionably the better camera, um, you're looking at twice the price there. That's not right. 30% more, sure. 50% more even. But 120% more? Somebody's got some explainin' to do...

[delaro]

Yeesh. $4650 for the A1, or $10,250 for the HVX? Obviously those are totally different price classes, and while I think the HVX is unquestionably the better camera, um, you're looking at twice the price there. That's not right. 30% more, sure. 50% more even. But 120% more? Somebody's got some explainin' to do...

lol .... canon is just proving that sony-europe and panasonic-europe are lying when they claim that it's because of all the incompressible taxes, etc that we have in europe.
or maybe canon is loosing money on the A1 sales here?? ...... naaaaaaa!

[ecking]

Yeah in canada the v1 is like 800 bucks canadian more that's a big deal to me, that's half way to having an hv10 as a deck, backup and vacation cam. A1 it is for me!

And an hvx + 8gb card is 7349.

So the A1 at 4799 is nice to me but you already knew that Barry. Remember around when the hvx was launched and that long thread started with people flaming me for whining and wanting just an affordable hdv dvx and that said camera would sell like hotcakes? I remember eventually you stepped in and said the hvx wasn't for me then and probably such a thing would be offered eventually. You were right.

What sucks is panasonic might make some kind of affordable AVCHD dvx at some point but I think it'll take too long and not offer enough of a visual step up from hdv to make us all wanna dumb our hdv stuff. I know I won't once I finally get an A1, too much money to drop like 1-2 years after.