Proposed Flipped/Non Flipped Vibrating Adaptor with Rod System [Archive] - DVXuser.com -- The online community for filmmaking

Alex.Flory

12-01-2006, 05:39 AM

Hi Guys,

Another adaptor I hear! I know I know. There are quite a number of adaptors out there already being produced and sold professionally and at very competitive prices. Anyway if anyone is interested, I am currently building my own adaptor that has a detechable front lens mount that can be switched between flipped and non flipped. The adaptor is in the CNC shop as I write this.

Once completed at the end of the year, I will be testing it with a DVX100B and an MX500. And hopefully by January 2007, some footage.

My main aim is to sell the adaptor. But then again it all depends on feedback from anyone who may be interested. Good or bad feedbacks are welcome. Since we have come to a stage where the film look adaptor has really reach the level of some professional adaptor, we are in some way treading on sensitive ground as has been discussed over and over again regarding vibrating adaptor and patent issues. But so far, the course is clear and hope this will be an addition to the collection of adaptors out there with the added function of being flipped and non flipped when required and rod system to top it up.

As the adaptor is still not done yet, here are a couple images of the proposed adaptor. Please any comments are welcome. Thanks.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h99/alexccm/Adaptor.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h99/alexccm/Adaptor2.jpg
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h99/alexccm/Adaptor2.jpg%5B/IMG%5D
(http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h99/alexccm/Adaptor2.jpg%5B/IMG%5D)

Daniel Schaumberger

12-01-2006, 09:25 AM

Hi Alex,

nice work are you going to use prism or mirrors for the flipping.

Daniel

Alex.Flory

12-01-2006, 04:24 PM

Hi Daniel,

Thanks. Its going to be mirror setup.

Inexistence

12-09-2006, 11:54 PM

Bump!

Cool stuff and what's the good news?

Alex.Flory

12-10-2006, 05:21 AM

The new adaptor should be done by end of the month. Should be able to get some video test shots. This project is still on track.

NickMilo

01-06-2007, 10:50 PM

Bump...

Any Updates?

Alex.Flory

01-06-2007, 11:36 PM

Hi Nick,

no worries, the adaptor is completed and on its way from the machine shop. As with many proposed adaptors, there is always a delay. Because of this I was thinking very hard to show the proposal a month ago or wait till its really done. Anyway my mistake. I should be receiving it in a week time. Here's a pic of the completed adaptor.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h99/alexccm/FlippedAdaptor.jpg
FLIPPED VERSION

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h99/alexccm/NonFlippedAdaptor.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h99/alexccm/NonFlippedAdaptorPic2.jpg
NON FLIPPED VERSION

Hope to show some footage soon. Anyone interested please just holler.

Rodney V. Smith

01-06-2007, 11:50 PM

wow. looking good. from design to reality...

Alex.Flory

01-07-2007, 01:30 AM

What you see is only 3/4 finished as there will be the erecting mirrors, GG, UV filters to prevent dusts, power switch, wires and the lots. Hope to have the completed version done this month. Fingers crossed.

snodart

01-07-2007, 02:20 AM

looking great alex. Can't wait to see more.

Alex.Flory

01-07-2007, 03:00 AM

Hi Justin,

Just read your thread on the DVD. Sorry to hear its not going ahead as planned. I am keeping my fingers crossed as the moving mechanism is base on Toenis vibrating gg holder. Yet to tested. Hopefully everything works out. Anyway, I went ahead and got 100 of the motors we sourced out. Will update more when i get the stuff.

leteeci

01-07-2007, 05:46 AM

Hi Nick,

no worries, the adaptor is completed and on its way from the machine shop. As with many proposed adaptors, there is always a delay. Because of this I was thinking very hard to show the proposal a month ago or wait till its really done. Anyway my mistake. I should be receiving it in a week time. Here's a pic of the completed adaptor.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h99/alexccm/FlippedAdaptor.jpg
FLIPPED VERSION

Hope to show some footage soon. Anyone interested please just holler.

Nice work!!

I just don't get why to use input and output tubes, when you have a long inside (mirror ) path and you can incorporate GG after first mirror..and mount camcorder/achromat and lens mount directly to the box..

Joust idea - it is not necessary that would be better.. :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

Cheers, :beer:
</IMG></IMG></IMG>

.

Alex.Flory

01-07-2007, 06:00 AM

Thanks for the comments. The output tube you see at the back is for mounting a CO 58mm achromat. The achromat is inserted into the tube once its screwed onto the camcorder. Since the camcorder is mounted on a rail, you just slide the camcorder towards the output tube until the achromat sits inside the tube. Does that answer your question?

leteeci

01-07-2007, 06:51 AM

Car3o

01-07-2007, 12:41 PM

is this the same tube you were going to sell to the public?

Alex0607

01-07-2007, 05:33 PM

Yup. But all depend on the response. I wouldn't want to get ahead of myself here. But if the response is good, why not. I haven't got the actual price yet as the quantity of order dictates the final figure. The more the cheaper.

Inexistence

01-09-2007, 12:44 PM

Cool stuff Alex! Let us see more!

slinks

01-12-2007, 10:45 AM

Can't wait for the footage. Nice design but is it as heavy as it looks?

Alex0607

01-12-2007, 06:09 PM

I haven't actually calculated the whole mass of it but my guess is its around 750g overall. But yet to be confirm. If you are going to use the non flipped version, then it will definitely be lighter. So run and Gun with the flipped version only possible if you have a proper rail system. But I wouldn't think its too difficult to do. The M2 is 1kg i believe and its possible to shoot run and gun with it.

JasonFox

01-13-2007, 09:50 AM

The M2 is 1kg i believe and its possible to shoot run and gun with it.

Possible, yes. Good times for all, no. :)

carlosm2112

01-14-2007, 03:09 PM

Hello,
If light loss is minimal or average and picture quality is good, then, i'll buy one. Can't wait to see finished product and footage. I'm interested in the flipped version. I don't want to deal with flipping in post. I have an HVX200, so will your adapter work in HD? I can beta test for you if you need? thanks.

Carlos M, Tucson, AZ

Alex.Flory

01-14-2007, 04:05 PM

Hi Carlos,

Haven't tested it yet so can't give you a definitive answer on this. There has been some issues with using HVX HD camcorder with vibrating adaptor design. My design is specifically made for SD as my main intention was to make an adaptor for my panasonic mx500 but it is usable on any SD camcorder as long as the mounting is there. I would love to have the adaptor tested with HVX. Let me get some of the stuff sorted out and I will PM you.

Alex.Flory

01-17-2007, 07:48 AM

Just a little update. The adaptor is finally here. Assembled the whole thing and it turned out ok. Had a scare with the vibrating mechanism as initial tests showed the vibration wasn't as good. But with a fellow forumer's help, I think I am on track. Thanks Daniel.

The flip worked out as planned. But as with any flipped, there is unfortunately light loss. Not sure how to measure light loss but I guess its around 2 stops with a crappy test GG. But with a brighter GG, that 2 stops should go down to either 1 or 1/2. Sorry if I may be wrong. Like I said, I have no clue how to measure light loss. Still a fair bit to go with installing the wires, motors, switch, battery adaptor and etc. But if everything is as planned, mid february I will have test footage for you guys. But no worries, will update as I go along. Will put up pictures of the adaptor soon. Keep watching.

Car3o

01-17-2007, 10:10 AM

If you want a 0light loss screen. Look at the Diffuser inside this cell phone. You'll be incredibly impressed once you see it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Audiovox-CDM8900-8900-Verizon-cell-for-parts-accessory_W0QQitemZ220070879642QQihZ012QQcategoryZ 64355QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

01-17-2007, 10:44 AM

You can measure total system light loss with the camera zebra stripes. Shoot a white card, and bring up the iris til you see the stripes. With the same card and lighting setup, do the same thing with the adapter and lens on. The f-stop difference will be the light loss.

Alex.Flory

01-17-2007, 04:19 PM

Alex.Flory

01-19-2007, 06:41 AM

Hi All,

So far so good. I have installed all the necessary parts for the adaptor. The result is very encouraging. The flip is working perfectly and I am beginning to think maybe I should discard the idea of a non-flipped version and just make the flipped version. Light loss is minimal. And that is with a canon Ee lens. Will be using a brighter GG soon and the result should be much better. Sorry for not posting any pictures so far but as soon as the vibration mechanism is sorted out and I get some video shots with my humble MX500, will put up some shots. Will also be trying out with a DVX100B setup. Will keep you guys posted.

PaPa

01-19-2007, 08:14 AM

let us know if you ever give it a shot on the Canon XH A1?

Alex.Flory

01-19-2007, 09:18 AM

Hi Jonathan,

I am keeping that as an option for anybody is interested to test drive the adaptor, so to speak. My only problem is the cost in getting one of this done. I will say the adaptor is suitable for SD camcorder only for now. As there has been alot of comments regarding HD camcorder seeing grains, I am afraid the result will be the same with my adaptor. But I will definitely have the adaptor tested whether its by myself or someone else like yourself with an HD camcorder. Thanks, will keep you posted on this.

Alex.Flory

01-26-2007, 06:39 AM

Hi guys, just a little update on the adaptor. Sorry to say, it's debut is going to be delayed. I am having problem with the noise coming out of the motor and this is unacceptable as it gets picked up by the camcorder mic. So what I am doing is get the CNC shop to cnc some more parts for me to test out. Once I get the part to work right with minimal noise, I will release the adaptor for viewing. In the meantime I will take some video with the adaptor and post it here for all to see. But I can only post the video test footage next week.

Safe to say the light loss (canon FD lens 1.8 50mm) with the flipped version is still low. I am not sure how to test light loss. Someone advised using the zebra function on my camcorder but its a cheap camcorder. I would guess a 1/2 light stop lost.

Thanks.

azboy1985

02-21-2007, 08:13 PM

whatever happened to this adapter... I was really interested to see the results it produced... any updates, pictures, grabs or footage?

Alex0607

02-21-2007, 09:58 PM

I was hoping no one would notice. Anyway, it is still alive and kicking. The problem with asking some company to produce the parts i need is costing me both money and time. I have the adaptor ready for my own use. I can post some video grab tonight. Bear with me.

I am currently working on getting a cnc milling machine to do my own parts and this is the thing that's holding the adaptor up. Very sorry guys.

A promise is a promise, but i haven't given up hope yet. I am getting good results with my adaptor currently but its commercial debut is still sometimes away.

It's nice to know someone still interested to know more.

slinks

02-22-2007, 07:47 AM

people are interested its just that people lose hope quickly because its been way too often that someone has promised a new adapter and footage but has not pulled through. So you should understand, not many will be checking here as often until you do post some footage and possibly a release date but it seems the release date probably wont happen for quite some time. Goodluck though and for everyone's sake I hope it all comes together for ya.

Alex0607

02-22-2007, 09:36 AM

Hi all,

Thanks for your patience. I have finally uploaded test footage from the adaptor to YOUTUBE. So click away and comment. I am using a very crappy set of macros. So you will probably see some CA and not so sharp videos. I have just gotten an achromat from Edmund Optics. But I don't have a holder to screw the achromat onto the adaptor. So test footage with that will come out later.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlMu7-rqvUQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EE1il64K2-I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeUG75wNlkY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alITv-K-aL4

Also some grabs from the test footage.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h99/alexccm/TripPic1.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h99/alexccm/Orchid.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h99/alexccm/MineralWater.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h99/alexccm/FlowerPic1.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h99/alexccm/DanielPic1.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h99/alexccm/Bicycle.jpg

Also pictures of the adaptor with Panasonic MX500. I am using simple hardware stuff to hold the camcorder in place. Very flimsy. I am in the process of having a better rail system made. I can use Cavision rail system but they are expensive.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h99/alexccm/AdaptorPic3.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h99/alexccm/AdaptorPic2.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h99/alexccm/AdaptorPic1.jpg

Thanks

Alex0607

02-22-2007, 09:40 AM

By the way, no color correction was done on any of the videos. A couple of the videos, I added the top and bottom black bars.

Alex0607

02-22-2007, 06:06 PM

This footage is in Mpeg-4 fomat at DV resolution. I can't post raw footage. The file is just too big.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9r2owJRn20

DavidD

02-22-2007, 06:21 PM

Looks good and nice flip design. Any idea when it will be ready for mass consumption and the price?

Alex0607

02-22-2007, 06:44 PM

Hi David,

I am working on improving the vibrating system. Current version aren't working so well although as you can see in the video, it is not too bad. I am getting slight Z axis movement. The new design should be better. Thanks to Daniel, I am going the route of his design.

I would like to commercialise the adaptor asap. But as the component hasn't been refined, I wouldn't even dare to sell it. If everything works out, I am thinking of selling it for around usd 1.2k. I know its abit expensive as compared to the letus, but you wouldn't need a rail anymore which can cost a bomb from Cavision. Thats with flip system, Power supply, universal rail, Achromat lens. choice of nikon or fd lens mount. The unit will be polished anodised black and sealed to prevent dust. I left the option of interchangeable GG but I leave it up to the user to decide what to do. And its inclusive of shipping charges.

I am targeting both low end video camcorder owner as well as high ends like DVX. Which will be tested in SD. But I will be testing it on HD format once I get my hand on an HD camcorder.

Any comments regarding what I have just written are welcome. Thanks.

blckhawk542

02-22-2007, 08:48 PM

azboy1985

02-22-2007, 10:14 PM

Alex0607

02-23-2007, 01:13 AM

What lens can you put on the adapters? Nikon..Canon..?

Hey...ill test any of your adapters for HD. I recently got a HVX200.

Are you planning on making a 82mm ring for the HVX? or just sticking with the 72mm ring for the DVX?

Hi Blckhawk,

It will primarily fit canon and nikon lenses, although I have yet to have the nikon mount produced, the canon mount will be available when I start selling.

I definitely will have it tested with an HVX. Unfortunately the cost of fabricating one unit for HVX test by a third party is beyond the budget I originally set aside. But i think that would be the only way to go at some point. So I will keep this option open. If I do set a side a few units, I will open up to anyone who would want to test the unit out and give an unbias review on the adaptor.

As for the 82mm ring, i think it would be possible to just use a step up ring or step down ring to fit the achromats that comes with the adaptor.

Alex0607

02-23-2007, 01:19 AM

wow alex, the adapter looks nice... I wish I could see some full res footage but ya kno... I was also going to ask you, I'd like to see some shots with the HVX200 and some of the HDV cameras if you get ur hands on them. How many stops of light are you losing right now?

Thanks for your kind words. You know what? I was planning to upload some full res shots today. Bear with me, I will have some full res footage in the next few hours. come back to have a look.

As for the light loss, I am guessing 1.5 stops (visual estimate) of light loss depending on what GG I am using. I am using EE screen primarily as this gives better bokeh IMHO. But if I use beattie screen, the light loss is probably a half. But my camcorder is useless in low light conditions so the light loss with ee screen may be closer to 1.

Will keep the option open for third party test with HVX. Thanks.

ifownlee41nite@mac.com

02-23-2007, 01:29 AM

This adapter allows you to view the image unflipped, correct?

Good job, and if it unflips the image great job!

I'll be you test subject when it's ready. Just give me a test pilot price.

Alex0607

02-23-2007, 03:58 AM

This adapter allows you to view the image unflipped, correct?

Good job, and if it unflips the image great job!

I'll be you test subject when it's ready. Just give me a test pilot price.

The image on the ground glass is flipped. Not sure what you mean by unflipped. If you mean not having to use an external monitor, that is correct. The image when seen through the camcorder is right way up. You don't have to use any magnet trick on your camcorder. The video footage you see in this thread are raw footage from the adaptor. No color correction. No post flip.

Alex0607

02-23-2007, 08:48 AM

As promised, here is a raw DV footage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZolImT-jdA

slinks

02-23-2007, 10:51 AM

people hate youtube around here.

http://www.stickypod.com/videos/index.php

ifownlee41nite@mac.com

02-23-2007, 10:59 AM

Alex0607

02-23-2007, 06:03 PM

people hate youtube around here.

http://www.stickypod.com/videos/index.php

I have trying to look for other website or ftp site to store my files. Still looking or if anyone can point me to a free website, that'll be great. The raw footage in youtube isn't raw at all. When viewed, you'll noticed alot of artifacts on the footage. It shouldn't be as the footage is DV. Thanks for the link, will try that instead.

Alex0607

02-23-2007, 06:21 PM

Let me know when, and where you will be displaying it. I would love to take it for a spin.

One question on the flipped ground glass. Compared to my redrock m2 which has a good amount of light loss where does your rate WITH THE GROUND GLASS FLIPPED.
Will do. I don't have an M2 and all I have seen with M2 is their footage. I have read somewhere that it loses alot of light. But again I am not sure. What I do know is if I use the EE lens, the light loss when looking at the GG is minimal even through the flipped system. When the adaptor is used with a Beattie screen, the light loss is very little. But the only issue I have with the Beattie screen is that the grain can still be seen even when vibrated. Although just, but I felt its not good enough. Maybe my vibrating mechanism isn't working properly. When I get a better vibrating system, I will test the screen again.