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Mars United
11-29-2006, 09:52 PM
I forbid people to start actually talking about this camera. I especially forbid anyone to answer the following question:

will the SI-2K take 35mm still lenses (without using an M2 type adaptor) and look good doing it?

Please. I am finding the quietness that surrounds all the SI forums on the net to be quite peaceful.

Who cares that it looks so damn cool and someone might be ready to buy one if he could just some info on it. I'm so much more comfortable (as a non-techie) with my understanding of the Red and its workflow, than this camera which is supposedly shipping in 2 days.

So, please, let's keep it quiet. No responding to this post!

:zombie_smiley:

Mars United
11-29-2006, 09:55 PM
Wow. I just rated my own thread! 5 stars! Cool.

Ooops ... SHHHHHH! No posting.

Ari Presler
11-29-2006, 11:16 PM
1.) Will the SI-2K take 35mm still lenses (without using an M2 type adaptor) and look good doing it?

Yes. You can use 35mm lens but you get a 3x effective magnification or telephoto effect from what you would expect on your 35mm camera. Photo lenses are usually slo, but with sufficient light you can get VERY sharp images.


2.) Workflow is Simple

Shoot - Edit - Output.

We record AVI files. Drop them on a Premier Pro 2 timeline and edit 2K in Real-Time on your Core 2 notebook.... Done!

BTW, there is no waiting for conversion from one code format to another. You can even play the files back in Windows Media player!


3.) We can start shipping any time December :-). But in reality we wont start shipping the MINI's until the end of the month !

Mars United
11-30-2006, 12:50 AM
Hey, Ari, thanks so much for responding to my childish reverse psych post! I'm extremely interested in the SI if I can possibly afford lenses.

I take it that some fast Nikor or Canon still lenses would be fine, as long as you account for the magnification. Does that simply mean you use wider lenses, or is it more complex than that? I'm willing to spend say, $5,000 on lenses, or one zoom lens, but would like to take advantage of the sensor's resolution, of course.

I'm also interested in whether there is an upgrade path to the SI-2K from the Mini. I hope you don't change the design too much from the pics I've seen.

I love what I've read about the non-destructive work flow, but what is the learning curve on the software? I had never heard of .look files until I read about them on your site. I would prefer to record in QT and edit in FCP if possible. Is that on track?

Cheers, and all the best on an exciting camera solution. :beer:

Mars United
11-30-2006, 01:05 AM
Oh. I had originally planned on buying the HVX200, but am worried about low light. How does the SI cam compare? I can only guess it is way better, being a 2/3" sensor.

One more question. This might seem like a silly one, but I think judging by specs alone can be misleading:

How would you compare the quality of the SI-2K to the HVX200? The Varicam or F900? I read somewhere that you said you aren't realistically comparing your camera to the Viper. OK, that one makes sense - I just looked it up. But for non-techies, where would you place the quality of the SI's image?

OK. I plead fatigue and quitting smoking. Thanks for reading. Cheers.

Ari Presler
12-01-2006, 07:46 AM
1.) Lenses

If you really want to true cinema quality pictures your money is best spent on PL prime lenses. The avg cost of $2K per lens when you buy 3-5 of them. You can also get some used S16 zooms starting at $5K. The Primes will give you sharper images.

2.) Low light
The camera is currently rated between ISO 210 and 320 depending on who you ask. We have not yet released the production cameras so we stiull have a few weeks to get it even better :-)

3.) Upgradability
Yes. We will have an upgrade path from 2K-MINI to the SI-2K full DVR.

4.) Comparison
a.) 2K vs HD (which is often not even a full 1920x1080 imager)
b.) RAW vs YUV - Colors are not baked in limiting color space
c.) Wider dynamic range - 10f stops
d.) 10Bit and 12bit modes
e.) 72FPS at 720P for slow-Mo
f.) yadah yadah


6.) Look Creation

Download a trial version of Speedgrade. Load up a picture and see the power of the tool.

http://www.speedgrade.com/onset/


We will be providing several preset looks. You can create your project and always let a colorist change them out later....It is just metadata.


7.) Workflow
For today, I suggest using the Adobe Production Studio workflow. It is running and producing films today....there is nothing faster!

Simply Shoot - Edit - Output.

No ingest, noformat conversion, no proxy, no prerending. Put your clip on the timeline and play your file.

QT support is making great progress. But not ready yet. You always have the option of taking your files of first converting them to uncompressed 4:4:4 QT, but you can no longer do multi-stream real-time editing on your laptop - which we can today ;-) !

Jason Rodriguez
12-01-2006, 09:11 AM
BTW, if you're willing to spend $5K on lenses, I would try to pick up a good used S16 Zeiss or Cooke zoom lens. You can get them in that ball-park.

Mars United
12-01-2006, 03:17 PM
Ari and Jason, thanks for your replies. This is sounding really good to me. I'm ready to buy now, but for me it is still between the HVX200 and your SI-2K. Obviously, the reason I'm considering the HVX200 is to save money, but I'm leaning far towards the SI-2K camp at the moment.

I have a few more questions:

1) are you saying I can edit on a laptop? I know in theory, you can. I was planning on using a Mac Pro for the HVX, though. Is the laptop, connected to monitor a truly viable way to edit the SI's footage? That would save me some money right there.

2) will there be some kind of trigger on the Mini to record, or do you have to do that from the laptop?

3) how do you frame your shot?!! Does the Mini come with the LCD, or do you have to watch the laptop?

4) is the ONLY variable frame rate in 720p? It sort of says this on your site, but then mentions over/under cranking in another point but doesn't specify a resolution. Be great to at least have 48fps in 2K or 1080p.

5) I assume that you can drop a 720p clip into the same time line as a 2K clip?

6) can you run the software on 2 laptops, or do you need to buy a second license. If you need a 2nd, how much $$$?

7) I was a little confused by your last answer, Ari, which seemed like a joke ... but I didn't get it. :) Are you saying it is shipping now, or not until later in December? I would want the final paint job if you know what I mean.

Thanks for your time. I realize you guys are probably quite busy. :beer:

Mars United
12-01-2006, 03:19 PM
Oh,

I read somewhere that you had tested certain laptops. I can't find that info. Can you give me a list of your certified laptops? Thanks.

Ari Presler
12-01-2006, 11:29 PM
1) are you saying I can edit on a laptop? I know in theory, you can. I was planning on using a Mac Pro for the HVX, though. Is the laptop, connected to monitor a truly viable way to edit the SI's footage? That would save me some money right there.

> Yes. This is the magic of Cineform RAW. Do it all...Shoot to finish on the laptop...although Quad cores cant hurt ;-)



2) will there be some kind of trigger on the Mini to record, or do you have to do that from the laptop?

> Yes. you will be able to purchase a push-button trigger cable that connects to the 12-pin Power/Trigger on the back of the Mini.



3) how do you frame your shot?!! Does the Mini come with the LCD, or do you have to watch the laptop?

> You can use the notebook or buy a 7" LCD monitor and run off the external VGA port of the notebook. Use a CAT-5 extender to get the same wiring distance as the Mini. You can even remote the touchscreen via usb and get all controls,


4) is the ONLY variable frame rate in 720p? It sort of says this on your site, but then mentions over/under cranking in another point but doesn't specify a resolution. Be great to at least have 48fps in 2K or 1080p.


> You can undercrank and overcrank at 2K and HD. 30fps is max at 1080P, 72fps is max for 720P. This is a limitation of the GigE interface speeds.


5) I assume that you can drop a 720p clip into the same time line as a 2K clip?

> Yes


6) can you run the software on 2 laptops, or do you need to buy a second license. If you need a 2nd, how much $$$?

> You can run on 2 laptops but not at the same time. You would need to get an extra cineform codec license to activate a 2nd machine...pricing TBD.




7) I was a little confused by your last answer, Ari, which seemed like a joke ... but I didn't get it. :) Are you saying it is shipping now, or not until later in December? I would want the final paint job if you know what I mean.


> When we stated shipping in December. We meant by the end of the month not commiting to Dec 1. We are waiting for parts for production. Then it is just a matter of time for the paint to dry.


> So far we have only Certified with the Dell M90 2.33GHz. We plan to add the MacBook Pro too.

MovieSwede
12-02-2006, 07:29 AM
Is there no possibilty to store with rectangular pixels to save GigE bandwith?

1440*1080(pa1,333) would alove more frames than 1920*1080(pa1)

Or would that take to much processingpower for the head?

Mars United
12-02-2006, 09:34 PM
This camera looks amazing! Let's talk.

Ari, I'll send you a PM. Thanks.

Ari Presler
12-03-2006, 06:02 PM
Is there no possibilty to store with rectangular pixels to save GigE bandwith?

1440*1080(pa1,333) would alove more frames than 1920*1080(pa1)

Or would that take to much processingpower for the head?


As we have discussed in the past, it is possible to crop the image size to reduce the number of pixels in a frame (eg 1440 x 1080) and increase frame rate above 30.