Red Camera.. first test with Still Lens ( Nikon ) [Archive] - DVXuser.com -- The online community for filmmaking

Jarred Land

11-15-2006, 05:50 PM

Major Breakthrough today..

Me and Jim put the proto Red-Nikon mount on Franky, mounted a DSLR Nikon Prime, and took some test shots. We were very pleased with the results.

All of you praying that you could use Nikon Still lenses on Red, your day just got alot better.

Lens: Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm 1:1.4 D Manual aperture at f4.0 ( Some Nikon glass, including new models, allow for manual aperture changes.)

here is a still.. 4.9k downrezed to 2k and turned into a medium quality 8 bit JPG.

http://www.24puser.com/nikon.jpg

http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/2/1163638038.jpg

Thats Brian BTW :)

tonacidigital

11-15-2006, 05:52 PM

very niiice (borat's accent)

mikkowilson

11-15-2006, 06:00 PM

Sheesh.. MOOOORE pictures??!! :shocked:

(And very nice looking ones at that - again)

This is very good news, 2K on a cheap 50mm lens ... this is how many many lower budget users will be using RED.

- Mikko ... updates his mirror. http://red.mikkowilson.com/nikon.jpg (http://red.mikkowilson.com/nikon.jpg)

Emanuel

11-15-2006, 06:00 PM

Great news! :)

As I've been posting this is what confirms this dvxuser.com as the best indie forum tool allover internet.

:dankk2: Jarred and Jim!

jbeale

11-15-2006, 06:04 PM

Viewed at 100% and larger this still appears more sharp than the 4k stills I've seen to date- is it just the downsampling, or was additional sharpening applied? There is a hint of a darker edge around the "Gretag macbeth" chart text but it's about half a pixel wide so it's hard to say if it's a sharpening halo or just the JPEG compression.

scienceguy_ae

11-15-2006, 06:05 PM

That's incredible. Way better than I was hoping for.

Is there any way we could get this at 4k? I'm very interested in how that lens resolves the chart.

Poi Boy

11-15-2006, 06:10 PM

Wow !!
Just the kind of quality I was hoping for...my Nikors await.
Aloha
-A

Tom Lowe

11-15-2006, 06:12 PM

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Images/Other/Canon-Super-Telephoto-L-Lenses.jpg

Interesting. Is it possible to mount Canon L series lenses on that thing? I don't own any of these yet, so I don't know about manual aperature.

You know, this RED camera could really see some action with the wildlife National Geographic types who shoot lion kills and nature stuff in Africa.

craigbowman

11-15-2006, 06:22 PM

Perfect. My Nikons will get me started! If Red makes a Canon FD mount as well I'll be in lens heaven.

mikkowilson

11-15-2006, 06:41 PM

Could (theoretically) RED drive the Aperature on SLR lenses?

The mechanical interface is there on the lenses, how about build a motorized other half into the lens mount? Because, all manual (the right way) settings aside, Auto-iris, or better yet, programmable/remote-iris would be one hell of a cool feature to have in the toolbox!

- Mikko

Jannard

11-15-2006, 06:45 PM

no control over lenses...

Jim

Jason Ramsey

11-15-2006, 06:51 PM

Mirror here also www.red.ramjetfilms.com/nikon.jpg (http://www.red.ramjetfilms.com/nikon.jpg)

Jason

Jim Arthurs

11-15-2006, 07:09 PM

I just love the look of the scaled 2K made from this sensor, very sharp without enhancement... and fun seeing that all my misc. Nikon glass won't go to waste.

donatello

11-15-2006, 07:18 PM

"this still appears more sharp than the 4k stills I've seen to date- is it just the downsampling, or was additional sharpening applied?"

should i dare say it ..
maybe it's the NIKOR lens ???

firewallet

11-15-2006, 07:19 PM

I am very happy with this test. Thanks RED Team...

ps. Jim Arthurs, are those RED brass knuckles or am I "projecting" my intentions? hahaha
pps. Jim, thanks for posting the larger pic... Very, very nice! haha

Kjetil Haugen

11-15-2006, 07:19 PM

Image looks great! Good option to have when shooting minor stuff. I'd still use my money on the Red zoom, though, and hoping for some Red primes to go with it at a later time. Kicking myself for not putting in a reservation on the zoom... arrggghhh!

Jim Arthurs

11-15-2006, 07:29 PM

Jim Arthurs, are those RED brass knuckles or am I "projecting" my intentions? hahaha

Yep!

My RED NAB 2006 Avatar was getting a little long in the tooth.

http://ftp.datausa.com/imageshoppe/outgoing/RED/AVATAR_KNUCKLES_500by500.jpg

Emanuel

11-15-2006, 07:37 PM

no control over lenses...

Jimhttp://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=78156

Sorry Jim but your quote don't escape to my cross-examination :).

PS -- Don't worry this apparent misunderstanding is only a pretext in order to push for the tool coming from Curt -- a 3rd party dvxuser.com fellow! ($3,500 up to $5,500 is a real indie offer as well your camera!)

Jarred Land

11-15-2006, 07:39 PM

ha ha ha nice work Jim :)

BTW.. just to make clear, this wasnt shot 2k scaled, this was shot at 4+k and scaled in post. Almost all DSLR lenses, even the ones that are APS-C sized will be able to shoot 4k, as Super 35mm and APS-C are relatively the same size.

One thing though, still lenses were not designed for motion, so alot of SLR lenses will breath pretty heavily during focus etc.

Jarred Land

11-15-2006, 07:42 PM

Sorry Jim but your quote don't escape to my cross-examination :):

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=78156

That lens motor isnt controlled by the camera, thats controlled via Remote, so Jim stands correct... But Curt for sure makes things alot easier.

Shaw

11-15-2006, 07:43 PM

should i dare say it ..
maybe it's the NIKOR lens ???

You know, it might very well be. Nikon lenses are designed to be tack sharp and they don't have to adhere to the same rigid properties with regard to breathing etc that cinema lenses do.

billy fattey

11-15-2006, 07:47 PM

This looks great and really opens up possibilities for glass you can pretty much get a fry's. May I ask why you guys scaled it to 2k? The filesize can't really be an issue if you're going to compress it to 8-bit jpeg anyway.

Emanuel

11-15-2006, 07:53 PM

That lens motor isnt controlled by the camera, thats controlled via Remote, so Jim stands correct... But Curt for sure makes things alot easier.For sure Jarred!

Here is the allegation of my innocence :):
PS -- Don't worry this apparent misunderstanding is only a pretext in order to push for the tool coming from Curt -- a 3rd party dvxuser.com fellow! ($3,500 up to $5,500 is a real indie offer as well your camera!)

mcgeedigital

11-15-2006, 07:59 PM

Nice, just makes me want to see one of those Zeiss super speed Nikon primes on the Red.

Emanuel

11-15-2006, 08:06 PM

A Nikon vs. Zeiss ZF comparision:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/50-comparison/sharpness.htm

Unfortunately, it seems the Nikon results are better according his opinion though this reviewer is Nikon/Nikkor based. And they're not manufactured by Zeiss in Germany.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/50-comparison/index.htm

EDIT -- OK guys! You're faster people!! The link is already fixed. :dankk2: for your care!

That link (now fixed) served only as link and clue for the whole review. Still, as I'm saying he's Nikon/Nikkor based. So, we should take away the discount from his own conclusions. Crossing his website you can find a sort of other tests (into the same comparision) between the Nikkor and Cosina (Zeiss-branded) glass -- fairly acceptable considering an equal setting basis. But that page (from the link now updated) was the VR part related where he reviews over what he got with his own findings (and concludes his review).

Chris Kenny

11-15-2006, 08:18 PM

A Nikon vs. Zeiss ZF comparision:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/50-comparison/vr.htm

Unfortunately, it seems the Nikon results are better though this reviewer is a Nikon/Nikkor based. And they're not manufactured by Zeiss in Germany:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/50-...ison/index.htm

Heh. That's not exactly a fair test. The Zeiss is shot at f/1.4, the Nikon at f/4.8. The reason this makes sense in the test is because the reviewer is testing a Nikon image stabilization feature which allows one to shoot longer exposures without introducing unwanted blur as a result of camera shake. Even if RED supported this lens feature (highly unlikely), you couldn't shoot 24 frames per second with a 1/5 second exposure time!

Brook Willard

11-15-2006, 08:47 PM

Jarred, how did the still lens resolve at 4K? Any chance of a 100% crop or perhaps even the full image?

Poi Boy

11-15-2006, 08:48 PM

I don't really think it is ment to be a fair test for Red cine style use but gives you an idea of the quality of todays slr lenses.
Aloha
-A

Emanuel

11-15-2006, 08:53 PM

Heh. That's not exactly a fair test. The Zeiss is shot at f/1.4, the Nikon at f/4.8. The reason this makes sense in the test is because the reviewer is testing a Nikon image stabilization feature which allows one to shoot longer exposures without introducing unwanted blur as a result of camera shake. Even if RED supported this lens feature (highly unlikely), you couldn't shoot 24 frames per second with a 1/5 second exposure time!Yes I know Chris!

EDIT -- It's already fixed. Link it again. The index is the second one.

Brook Willard

11-15-2006, 08:59 PM

I don't really think it is ment to be a fair test for Red cine style use but gives you an idea of the quality of todays slr lenses.
Aloha
-A
Of course! I'm just driven by curiosity. :)

Jannard

11-15-2006, 09:10 PM

The only valid tests will come when we cement down a sensor absolutely perpendicular to the light path (Frankie is a bit too crude for this). Then when the back focus is set properly, everything coming from Red will crispen up a bit and lens comparison tests will be more valid.

Jim

FatBird19

11-15-2006, 09:41 PM

Brook Willard

11-15-2006, 09:43 PM

As I understand it, the sensor and electronics live inside of a metal box with the lens mount. Because it's not sealed, dust can get in [and because the box isn't locked down, the focal plane can shift off of the sensor].

Someday we'll see a picture... I hope.

hawaj

11-15-2006, 09:51 PM

Canon lens comparison (... with Sigma and Tamron too)
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?FLI=0&API=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0&Lens=398&Camera=396&LensComp=251

evinsky

11-15-2006, 10:19 PM

The Zeiss ZFs are not going to be appreciably better than their Nikkor equivelants especially at the premium price they are asking for them. They offer a smoother focusing helicoid though. I still feel you will get more bang for your buck with the Nikkors or Canon FDs.

_MR_

11-15-2006, 10:30 PM

Must say that frame looks a lot better than the footage I was getting with an F900R that had a Fuji 22x lens with Diopter attached focusing a foot-and-a-half away on the spinning groundglass of an M2 adaptor fitted with a nikon prime.

Nice depth of field, but remarkably soft :D

saru

11-15-2006, 10:38 PM

So all my lovely old Nikkor lenses will last for at least 15+ more years ! (or probably more as Red is MODULAR :thumbup: )

I'm dying to see some pics of Nikkor lens mounted Red camera ..

Chris Kenny

11-15-2006, 10:50 PM

What would be really interesting is seeing Nikon primes up against Zeiss PL primes (i.e. real Zeiss glass).

hawaj

11-15-2006, 11:26 PM

Maybe its time for Nikon to start produce some movie lenses ;p)

jbeale

11-16-2006, 12:07 AM

> ...everything coming from Red will crispen up a bit...

One posting about the recent 4k viewing had a comment that the image was already too sharp and you should have used an older Cooke lens that had been knocked around a little (!) So maybe Red should have a sensor tilt/shift/catywumpus knob to tweak in that vintage "Frankie" look.

note, just in case... this is a joke. :-)

Jannard

11-16-2006, 12:23 AM

most said it looked like chocolate!

Jim

Brook Willard

11-16-2006, 12:25 AM

Who ever thought that something so sharp could be so smooth...

Or something.

insanityfw

11-16-2006, 12:54 AM

most said it looked like chocolate!

Jim
I like choclate.

Gordon Prince

11-16-2006, 12:59 AM

This is an important achievement, a good incentive for all who have been supporting this new camera with a reservation.

Darkline

11-16-2006, 03:16 AM

Happy boy here.

Im so pleased the Nikon mount is underway at Red. If this is the kind of quality I could hope to achieve then I'm beaming.

any chance of knowing whether this mount will be ready when the camera ships?

Ralph Oshiro

11-16-2006, 03:55 AM

HOLY CRAP! I just about pooed my pants! Inexpensive Nikkor primes on RED!?!?!? HOLY CRAP! What happens to all the idiots (me, especially) that didn't plunk down their reservations in time, and now realize that RED is the ONLY thing worth thinking about shooting with for some time to come?

Haakon

11-16-2006, 05:44 AM

Emanuel

11-16-2006, 05:47 AM

any chance of knowing whether this mount will be ready when the camera ships?Jim,

After yesterday this is our request. Today as post, if it isn't enough, tomorrow as thread and if it won't be enough, after tomorrow as poll... :)

E.

Stephen Williams

11-16-2006, 11:16 AM

Jannard

11-16-2006, 11:27 AM

We have a custom collimation system that is as accurate as you can find anywhere. There will be no excuses for accuracy on production cameras. We have taken into consideration the materials we will use in the lens mount to sensor block so that there is the least chance of expansion under different circumstances (primarily heat).

Jim

Jannard

11-16-2006, 11:31 AM

It is our goal to have the Nikon manual mount ready at the time we ship.

Jim

jbeale

11-16-2006, 12:24 PM

> Is it possible to mount Canon L series lenses on that thing...?

Red has stated they won't offer electronic iris control, as used in Canon EOS lenses, so a Canon mount wouldn't be too practical. That's not to say some third party couldn't produce such a mount. Two challenges to such a project:

1) Mechanical issues: a lens mount must be mechanically strong and very precisely aligned to the sensor. I don't know if Red plans to publish their mounting specs- maybe you could figure it out by direct measurement.

2) Electronic control. The Canon EOS lens electronic interface spec is not open, and AFAIK they have never licensed it. Third parties that offer EOS-compatible lenses (eg. Sigma, Tokina) have reverse-engineered it, but not perfectly; when new EOS bodies come out the 3rd-party lenses are sometimes incompatible and must be re-chipped to work with the new cameras.

That's not to say it's impossible. And of course, you can pick up a Canon EOS film body for next to nothing these days, and it contains a full EOS lens control system... are you good with a soldering iron? :-)

Darkline

11-16-2006, 12:45 PM

:) great news Jim.

I have a lot of learning to do about this camera and the workflow, but I'm really excited and can only hope I have a script that this camera deserves!

Emanuel

11-16-2006, 02:14 PM

It is our goal to have the Nikon manual mount ready at the time we ship.

JimExcellent news Jim! :)

Sigh. Sometimes our native language barrier isn't good enough for to express our feelings but the common RED language will solve -- that's for sure! :laugh: So, it won't be necessary the petition (what I wished to mean and not a pool! Ooops sorry, I mean poll :cheesy:).

:dankk2:
E.

Jim,

After yesterday this is our request. Today as post, if it isn't enough, tomorrow as thread and if it won't be enough, after tomorrow as poll... :)

E.

Mr. Blonde

11-16-2006, 02:17 PM

It is our goal to have the Nikon manual mount ready at the time we ship.

Jim
That's money! I've got a whole set of Nikon primes waiting....
24mm F2 Ai
35mm F1.4 Ais
50mm F1.2 Ais
85mm F1.4 Ais
105mm F1.8 Ais

Jim, at the screening there were two Red models shown. One flash and one for raw output. Will both docks come with the Red One? If the docks are seperate purchases, any idea on the cost of each?

Jannard

11-16-2006, 03:38 PM

They are different parts that interchange. Likely (key word) is that the flash module will come standard (records REDCODE RAW) and the high-speed port will be extra. Once you see REDCODE in action, I don't think you will care about the high-speed port. :-)

Jim

Greg Voevodsky

11-16-2006, 04:29 PM

Hi Jim,

I hope you e-mail us owners to ask us what mount we would like have shipped with the camera. I'd like to have the nikon mount installed at the factory and have the PL mount come seperately. That way, I know its on correctly - since I'm sure all cameras will be tested before they ship.

Also, you should have seen this Sony guys face when I showed him the Red Footage at DV Expo - just priceless - Not a bad picture for impossible Vaporwhere! LOL. .

Jannard

11-16-2006, 04:33 PM

The beauty of our program is that all the adjustment is done at the factory. You can interchange PL to Nikon with NO added adjustment. Any lens mount other than PL will be at an extra charge. Only the PL mount is included.

Imagine seeing their faces if they had seen the 4k presentation at the Nuart two days ago.

Jim

Darkline

11-16-2006, 04:38 PM

Is there even a ballpark figure of what we can expect to pay for the SLR mount?

Jannard

11-16-2006, 04:51 PM

Priced like the rest of our system... a bargain.

Jim

Darkline

11-16-2006, 05:26 PM

lol....silly question really :-)

USLatin

11-16-2006, 07:26 PM

I might have missed it in here, but just in case:

Are you guys planning on shooting something during the day this weekend outside in the bright Cali sun? :grin:

Weatherman says it should be perfect conditions.

Faceman

11-16-2006, 07:31 PM

Priced like the rest of our system... a bargain.

Jim

Ha, love it.

filmmaker1977

11-16-2006, 08:31 PM

It is our goal to have the Nikon manual mount ready at the time we ship.

Jimwow.. what i've been losing.. this is the greatest événement of these days!

and my browse navigation favs list was taking me off this one.. a new subsection red forums and this nouvelle.. the nikon f mount will be ready at the time the red ships! wow and confirmed by the big boss.. :kiss:

filmmaker1977

11-16-2006, 08:49 PM

lol....silly question really :-)not so silly darkline.. :thumbup: jim is not in this business because he thinks to lose money.. or give us what only our money can afford.. this is a market.. his words are part of his business.. and we can just do our job: to buy as cheap as possible..

yeah: i said the forbidden PRO word (or what some "pros" are thinking must be the "PRO" taboo :grin:)

Jack_Felis

11-16-2006, 10:07 PM

Now, Jim, when you say "No added adjustment", do you mean we can just take the Nikon mount adapter and pop it on the camera without removing the PL mount? Or do you mean that the process of replacing mounts is something we can simply do ourselves without sending the camera in or having it sent that way by default?

Jannard

11-16-2006, 11:12 PM

The latter... the distance to the base-mount is 30mm. The distance after the base-mount is whatever is required for the different mounts. For PL, add 22mm, etc. Each camera mount (PL, Nikon, etc.) will mount to the base mount. Did that make sense?

Jim

filmmaker1977

11-16-2006, 11:20 PM

so will it be properly interchanged by any non technical shooter?

edit
how many minutes?
(underestimate)

Jannard

11-16-2006, 11:26 PM

under 5 minutes...

filmmaker1977

11-16-2006, 11:28 PM

thx jim

and on the interchange mounts operation will it be so easy as a lens change or require special tech care?

Jarred Land

11-16-2006, 11:34 PM

well everything takes special tech care depending on what you define special tech care.. No, you dont need a special technician to do it unless your the "completely useless" type.. (not that there is anything wrong with those types.).. but since the sensor will be open to the air, you obviously dont want to do it in a dust cloud or a rainstorm etc.

Brook Willard

11-16-2006, 11:40 PM

Basically... don't let your loader do it.

filmmaker1977

11-16-2006, 11:44 PM

i've heard so many things on collimation need and something like that.. it's frightening.. because of those FUDs darkline asked what he did..

Emanuel

11-16-2006, 11:44 PM

But these are 'special' news indeed! This is more that universal mount we've been asking as feature. The proper RED mount. A good service for the RED customers is what this is. I'm thinking to leave my brand agnostic etichetta for the RED brand loyalty!

filmmaker1977

11-16-2006, 11:46 PM

emanuel i thought you already were a RED loyal..

Emanuel

11-16-2006, 11:49 PM

And I am... :) But it's 'cause there are people like Jim in the charge, beyond the great RED team. But it's not easy to let away a lot of beliefs coming from the time when we were Sony customers or we were used to buy or rent from the traditional cine-style gear provider...

Jarred Land

11-16-2006, 11:56 PM

collimnation is not needed everytime you change the mount... a collimnator is just used to adjust your back-focus if something gets knocked out of alignment.

Jannard

11-17-2006, 12:05 AM

... which will be pretty hard to do the way this is designed.

Jim

jbeale

11-17-2006, 12:07 AM

i've heard so many things on collimation need and something like that.. it's frightening..

If the current design is still similar to what's now on the RED webpage ( http://red.com/images/photo/1_b.jpg ) it looks like you simply undo 8 bolts, put on the new adaptor ring, and tighten them down again. Looks straightforward, appears to need only one tool, an allen wrench. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_wrench ).

As far as alignment, the most critical thing is that the lens axis is perpendicular to the sensor plane and lens flange is the right distance out, but bolting the mount solidly to the chassis should insure that. Just don't strip the bolt threads or get dirt/grit on any surfaces, and I'd think you'll be fine.

filmmaker1977

11-17-2006, 12:07 AM

yes, i understand.. above all when there is something like this red universal half mount..

Jannard

11-17-2006, 12:17 AM

It is completely different... and easier. Things change pretty quickly around here... If anyone is curious, the design process we use is pretty unique. Someday I'll let someone else write a book. :-)

Jim

filmmaker1977

11-17-2006, 12:27 AM

eheh.. where i heard that.. where are you my fav tech book writer?

Gordon Prince

11-17-2006, 01:24 AM

It is completely different... and easier. Things change pretty quickly around here... If anyone is curious, the design process we use is pretty unique.Does it mean a single bolt with the help of a safety lock (surely) screw system, for example?

Brook Willard

11-17-2006, 03:26 AM

If anyone is curious, the design process we use is pretty unique.
I'm quite curious... share all you can!

Homersapien

11-17-2006, 04:26 AM

On the subject of breathing, can't Graeme knock up some in-camera software that crops the image on the fly to remove it rather than doing it in post :)!

If this was done it wouldn't just make Red a great camera, it'd make it an absolutely amazing one. Plus Cine lense manufacturers would detest you lol.

lpcvideo1

11-17-2006, 07:55 AM

Does it mean a single bolt with the help of a safety lock (surely) screw system, for example?

Red accidentally released to me the mount system they have worked out.

http://www.kidalog.net/images/safetycaps.jpg

Brook Willard

11-17-2006, 02:25 PM

Well put that picture on a 1080p monitor without permission already!

pretopost

11-17-2006, 04:06 PM

Red accidentally released to me the mount system they have worked out.

http://www.kidalog.net/images/safetycaps.jpg

Now That's funny...I don't care who you are!!!!

FatBird19

11-17-2006, 05:26 PM

Red accidentally released to me the mount system they have worked out.

http://www.kidalog.net/images/safetycaps.jpg

i knew it. :Drogar-Love(DBG):

firewallet

11-17-2006, 06:11 PM

Red accidentally released to me the mount system they have worked out.

http://www.kidalog.net/images/safetycaps.jpg

Are they child proof? :huh:

Greg Voevodsky

11-19-2006, 10:59 AM

Are they child proof? :huh:

Looks more like you got the white Canon mounts by mistake.

firewallet

11-19-2006, 10:45 PM

Looks more like you got the white Canon mounts by mistake.

Nooooo!:crybaby: hahaha PL and Nikon for me please.:beer:

Jarred Land

11-19-2006, 10:48 PM

you guys are nuts :)

mikkowilson

11-20-2006, 01:17 AM

But Canon does give you nice long lenses if you want..

http://dvinfo.net/canon/images/eos1200bb.jpg
Canon 1200mm Prime on with a 2x extender on a XL1 for a total of 17280mm
(http://dvinfo.net/canon/images/images17.php)

- Mikko

Emanuel

11-20-2006, 01:20 AM

Is that for detective work Mikko? :)

firewallet

11-20-2006, 01:36 AM

But Canon does give you nice long lenses if you want...

- Mikko

I remember that picture. Now THAT is nuts! haha

Blue

11-20-2006, 02:47 PM

Wouldn't the light abandon hope and just die halfway down the lens. And if not then what good could possibly come of a rendezvous with the 1/3 chip anyway?

Truth is that barrel would be far better served afront a ship of war.

"FIRE!"

evinsky

11-20-2006, 04:24 PM

Don't fret if you really need to see Brangelina's baby from Pasadena Nikon has you covered too.
http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/speciallenses/images/12001700mm.jpg
1200-1700 ED Zoom Nikkor. (Special order only)
http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/speciallenses/images/scale12001700.jpg
For reference here it is next to a 600mm f4.

Gibby

11-20-2006, 04:53 PM

Yeah Evinsky...

Reminds me of that scene in Crocodile Dundee, where that mugger threatens Nick Dundee with a fair sized knife, and Nick says "That's not a knife mate, this here's a knife", as he whips out his humongous Bowie Knife.

Thus...

"That's not a lens mate, this here's a lens", as Evin whips out his 1200-1700 ED Zoom Nikkor.

mikkowilson

11-20-2006, 05:02 PM

It's not the size that matters, but how you use it mate...

http://www.usa.canon.com/app/images/lens/EF10-22_586x225.jpg
Canon EF-S 10-22mm

... is wider than...

http://www.nikonusa.com/images/products/1960_360.jpg
Nikon 17-35mm Nikkor

- Mikko

Gibby

11-20-2006, 05:10 PM

True Mikko!

I want that EF-S 10-22mm for my 10D. It's a sweet lens...

Sidenote: Jim Jannard owns one of those Canon 1200mm primes

Emanuel

11-20-2006, 06:19 PM

OK now I understand where it came the idea for the 300mm as the first RED lens available! :)

mikkowilson

11-20-2006, 06:26 PM

Sidenote: Jim Jannard owns one of those Canon 1200mm primes

Now THERE is a test shot I'd like to see.

How about the moon? - Or at least part of it. :cheesy:

- Mikko ... envies Jim

Emanuel

11-20-2006, 06:53 PM

Lol :)

Beat Takeshi

11-22-2006, 01:01 PM

ColinSmith

11-24-2006, 06:33 AM

The 10-22 is just a lovely, lovely lens.
I wish there were even some rumours of some way I might get it on a Red...

Gibby

11-24-2006, 09:24 AM

RED has said they will be making an optional Canon mount, but the RED camera is manual, and the Canon lenses you use on it will need to be manual, or have manual use capability. The Canon 10-22mm zoom can be operated manually, but it has an EF-S lens mount, so it probably wouldn't seat on RED's Canon mount, and if it did, none of its electronic features would work with RED. The 10-22 is designed for APS-C sized sensor DSLR cameras (20D, etc.), so perhaps it would cover a S35 sensor like RED's CMOS, but even if it did, you'd have no way to use the electronic features of the lens. Focus on the 10-22 can be manual, and you can manually set exposure, but it has an electronic diaphragm.

Close, but no cigar...(sorry for using the cigar analogy Jim!)

jbeale

11-24-2006, 12:30 PM

If you are absolutely desperate to use a Canon EF lens, and you want to use one fixed f-stop, there is a workaround.
1) put the lens on a Canon EF-mount body (film or digital).
2) set the aperture you want and a long exposure time
3) trigger the shutter
4) while the shutter is still open, unmount the lens (!)
5) The EF lens will now be fixed at the selected aperture. No battery needed.

I don't know how "solid" the power-off aperture setting is. If the lens gets bumped, etc. I can imagine the aperture may change.

ColinSmith

11-24-2006, 06:04 PM

Yup, I know the problem, and the work around, and I still want a mount with an appature control for EOS lens, and I know I'm not likely to get it.... :-(

I know I can go for Canon or Nikon manuals and get nice glass, but when I already have the 10-22, and a nice 28-70 f2.8 sitting here ....... ah well ;-)

evinsky

11-25-2006, 02:43 PM

E-bay my friend. It's never too late to switch to Nikon. Then you get the best of both worlds, great AF and manual lenses that work on your DSLR and your Red. The D80 and D200 IQ is indistinguishable from the 20/30D and the D2x (My choice) has the best AF system ever designed. Not to mention gives the 1DsMII a serious run for the money considering it's $3K cheaper and has about 90% of it's resolution.

Here, I just got back from East Africa...
Center crop from a D2x with the amazing 18-200VR
http://www.evingrant.com/zebras.jpg
A 200% crop that will make a georgous 22"x44" print
http://www.evingrant.com/zebrahead.jpg

ColinSmith

11-25-2006, 03:14 PM

Haha :)

Well, I'm happy enough where I am just now, but could of course use either of the Nikon or Canon manual lenses on the EOS body too, just a shame to let good EF-S glass go to waste.

On the other hand I thought some more and started to realise the full range of problems that would come with trying to make an EOS Red mount..... so maybe I'll just have to try and get over it ;-)

Nice shot though.
It's the dslr / raw workflow matching capabilities of Red that excite me the most.

JeanD

11-27-2006, 07:30 AM

Mine is bigger than yours....lol

How's this for a huge lens! That blip you see at the end (to the right) is a Hasselblad...

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0610/zeiss1700-01.jpg

The article is here:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0610/06100101zeiss1700f4.asp

Jean

PS: I can't post attachments so i just put the links here....

Robert Sanders

11-27-2006, 01:10 PM

Notice that the one side of the lens is written in Arabic. Which means a rich-ass prince had that lens commissioned. Considering that each glass element of that lens is the cost of a Mercedes.

briferg

11-27-2006, 02:35 PM

Thanks for the new avatar Jared!

70mmDV

11-27-2006, 08:53 PM

Jim you made my day with the Nikon mount. I've always felt angenieux doesn't make the best glass, but I was going to have to compromise until the 18-85 came out. I've filled my BH shopping cart as soon as I got the news.

And I can have new toys for my D2x until Red comes out!

John, MD
Red#613
www.myspace.com/ShootRed

If only this was out while I was in filmschool...

lpcvideo1

11-27-2006, 09:48 PM

If only this was out while I was in filmschool...

Ah, but now you have money to get one!

Stephen Williams

11-28-2006, 03:08 AM

I've always felt angenieux doesn't make the best glass, John, MD
Red#613
www.myspace.com/ShootRed (http://www.myspace.com/ShootRed)
If only this was out while I was in filmschool...

Hi John,

The latest Zooms from Angenieux are very good & cut well with Cooke S4 primes. Remember 40 years ago zooms ,were not good (in todays terms) from any vendor.

Stephen