How to fly a DVX at 40ft

[Ki-Ki]

Basically for the Drama-Fest entry. One or two shots in my film are going to basically require a few long and high shots. Since my last name aint "Brandson" or some other posh guy. I need to find an alternative for hiring out a helicopter for some short shots.

My first, more obvious reaction was. Mount or create a remote control plane with a camera. Since i seen some tutor do this back when i was in secondary school. Then I though. Why would I mount £2500 of crap onto a unstable plastic wing.

Then I got reaslistic and tried to imagine a heavy 3 ton camera on a remote control plane.

BASICALLY

Does anyone have any suggestions on how I could somehow create a helicopter, remote control plane. That can somehow take footage from the air. If it helps. Maximum budget of around £200 for the whole film. [$450?]

The shots would be flying through landscapes, over rivers, over a hill, around a castle. Etc.

Any help, feedback of any sory, what so ever, is much appreciated.
:beer:

[Kevin Briggs]

Buy stock footage. Ask user named Owen where he got his.

[Kevin Briggs]

Here is the project owen has the arial footage from:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=28051

http://www.kalonmedia.com/video/SCG_Ep1_Ep2_Large.mov

[kyle.presley]

What about a cable cam? It's just a length of cable, some pulleys and some way to rig your cam onto it. I think it would be easy to diy.

[Inexistence]

Stock footage or this expensive thing...

http://www.rctoys.com/Merchant2/images/products/DF-SAVS_1.jpghttp://www.rctoys.com/Merchant2/images/products/DF-SAVS_3.jpg

http://www.rctoys.com/rc-toys-and-parts/DF-TSU/RC-HELICOPTERS-DRAGANFLYER-TSU.html

[Capt Quirk]

The Dragonfly is only for sale to Military or Law Enforcement. The price was $5,995, but now it's $5,995- you save $1,000??? Huh?

[Inexistence]

Does it need to be 40ft? Drive on a hill, zoom in a little and fire away... fake it.


oops wrong link!
http://www.rctoys.com/rc-toys-and-parts/DF-XPRO/RC-HELICOPTERS-DRAGANFLYER-XPRO.html

same deal just as pricey

[Ki-Ki]

Does it need to be 40ft? Drive on a hill, zoom in a little and fire away... fake it.

I would imagine 40ft would be a reasonable height. I could probably do the shot at 20ft, depending on certain things. Though Zooming in wouldnt be able to do it because the camera would be ever so slowly curving as it would be moving forwards, and looking down.

I might go back to a model shop or something. Stick a webcam on. See what happens. I cant imagine having the money to do the others above. Though a pully..i dont know, maybe. Though I might sound like a bit of an idiot here. But, whats Stock Footage?

[SomewhereinLA]

How about renting a crane and using a very wide lens.

[SadMax]

Get in touch with your local R/C plane club - some of those guys might fly helicopter models capable of lifting the weight of a dvx...although you might want to buy enough insurance to cover the value of both the R/C aircraft, and the dvx you'll be lifting...

'Stock Footage' is footage of almost any sort that is cataloged and held in a library, to be sold or otherwise provided to people who need a certain shot but can't get it for themselves within their schedule or budget.

On second thought, that R/C aircraft idea isn't much good; you'd need a remote video tap, plus remote camera controls, in order to have any clue what you're actually shooting, while the camera is aloft...

[Wayne Kinney]

I did this last year with my petrol powered .30 size RC helicopter and a cheap consumer cam. Vibration was the main trouble, even after trying to isolate the thing.

A .60 class heli would be better, but I certainly wouldn't want to strap my DVX or such under it, I was afriad enough with my cheapo cam!

[jeremytuttle]

First off, I don't recommend this to any one and I hold no responsibility for this insanity:

But, what if you use a large helium ballon (a 8ft weather ballon can carry about 15 pounds) tethered to you and a monitor. Guide it around the best you can with the tether and hope for great footage. A 8ft ballon will cost 70-100 bucks and then you have to fill the huge thing.

[SadMax]

That's not only insane, it's brilliant.

And I'm holding you responsible.

[Ki-Ki]

Thanks for the advice so far guys, its been awesome. I dont know what Id do without this place.

SadMax - I'll probably do that at some point this week. See if theres some type of equiptment that could do it, some sort of plane etc. I would need some sort of video feed, where i can see what im recording when its flying. So i could turn the plane. Thats what im thinking.

SomewhereinLA - Great, I'll look into that now actually. Seems like a possible concept.... Actually. Probably not. Due to the budget for a start. And the location is in the middle of a country...Hmm

[SadMax]

I think jeremytuttle has the best (safest-sounding, for sure) idea so far...

[Ki-Ki]

Damn, Skipped the 3 posts then as i was typing...ballon..could work..maybe...hmm...

I'm going back to the locaiton im mainly thinking of shooting at this saturday. Its for a shot that requires CGI anyway. Where an armarda of men are going to be. Thank god for the wonders of bluescreen .

Yeah, he probably has. This Insurance things gonna hurt though.


I just hope it dont float off with my DVX if the string or something snaps.

[Wayne Kinney]

If going via the R/C heli route, please approach a local model flying club. a 30 size glow powered heli can easily harm or kill you.

[SadMax]

I just hope it dont float off with my DVX if the string or something snaps.


Well, if it does, when it comes down someone in Newfoundland will have a new camera plus some marvelous stock footage of the North Atlantic...

[Ki-Ki]

Ha! Laughed like hell at that one. Knowing my luck though thats probably no joke If I go that way.

[Capt Quirk]

Instead of risking that balloon floating off with your cam, how about a parasail? It seems to me, I've seen people parasailing behind a car. Think Jurassic Park 3.

[Inexistence]

Instead of risking that balloon floating off with your cam, how about a parasail? It seems to me, I've seen people parasailing behind a car. Think Jurassic Park 3.
Make sure you build a nice cage for the camera! Damn trees and all, powerlines, telephone polls...

Edit: hehe telephone polls. I mean poles. argh midterm elections fried my brains.

[BrianMurphy]

There are many commercial still photogs that use tethered helium baloons for real-estate photography. These are speacai units made for photography. I am sure there wouldbe someone in your area who you might chat with about tagging along on one of their shoots or such. But mini choppers and the like are not likely to work for you or be inexpensive. You might also try a local cable,electrical company and seff if you can scrounge a lift up in a bucket truck.

[mikkowilson]

How about making use of other tall objects - like a building.

You can get good high static shots from balconies, and even enhance them just a little with small zoom.

Can you get up on a roof somewhere? If you can, get a dolly and some track or a Steadicam & operator, and you can get in some longer tracking shots that can look great if you have a little foreground like treetops to pass.

How about a bridge over a valley? Again that puts you up high where a combination of a bit of movement and zooming can go a long way.

Or then get some long long bits of rope or cable and (carefully!!) build a really long cablecam out between a couple of structures or treetops.

- Mikko

[insanityfw]

check out dvcamerarigs.com

They have a modified balloon idea that has you building a safety case out of a soft lunch pail and strapping that onto the helium balloons. You can pad thehell out of it...just in case as well as rig a couple of control ropes to different parts of it. Also, take a very long rca cable and you can video monitor what you're shooting as it floats around.

[Car3o]

What i'm wondering is what the shot is for? If it's just scenery or some buildings, just spend the 450 bux and make a detail model(s) out of it. This may sound dumb because I have no idea what excatly you are trying to shoot.

[J Michael]

With your budget you can afford a real helicopter. Mosey down to the local airport and ask around. Another alternative is a hot air balloon, but you would need to plan the flight to take wind direction into account and film either at sunrise or sunset. PM me if you need help finding a balloon pilot. A balloon can skim the trees and allows excellent low level, slow moving footage.

Tethered balloons require quite a bit of gas to get the lift you need and hard to get movement, so framing would probably be an issue without additional equipment (=cost and weight). Helium is expensive. Hydrogen is a cheaper alternative but requires more safety precautions.

[Ki-Ki]

Well. To back some of the suggestions, and sort of destroy some of them. Here's a couple of images from the Castle, and from a distance looking at it I managed to dig up. This would be the main one I imagine us shooting at for the Interior. Though for the Exterior. I'm not that sure. But here's the main one I imagine us shooting at.


http://www.glamorganwalks.com/Meander.jpg

A view from the castle. Overlooking a meander and out to the Bristol Channel. The most realistic locations compared to others we have viewed.

I'm going to see If I can get over there now actually, take some screen-pics. See If any of the ideas are suitable. Though I'm not sure the crane one would be since its all country roads, etc.

Okay, I'll post back soon.

I could. There is a local airport. Though its a little abandoned. It was used in the war but has private planes there belonging to people. Though it seems cursed. Since its only 5 miles away from the sea. Even last year we had a guy who crashed off the pier into the ocean. Anyway. As I'm passing I might pop in. See if anybodies around.

Oh and, the shots for mainly editing. A long pan of the country, or some scenery. And an armarda of men/beasts basically moving towards a castle. Where people from the castle set out to protect. Etc. Alot of editing really. Its one of those really important shots. Probably second most biggest in the short.

[mikkowilson]

Ki-Ki
I would advise against just going to the airport and finding someone to fly you around in a chopper. Chances are that they will have no prior experience with arial filming, and it sounds like you don't either. That would make for a very very dangerous situation. Run a search for "helicopter" before setting out on this one, there are big risks involved.

Remember that the audience will never ever complain about a shot that was't in a film. And no shot is ever worth risking your life for.

- Mikko

[leteeci]

HHHmmhh..


I think that the cheapest option would be ...
Tandem paragliding...

would Let some woman to be a cameraman ( they weight less :thumbup: ).. and use wide-lens...


Just thought.. :beer:
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[Juanfordroad]

The ranchers out here in the wild west sometimes use ultralights to go coyote huntin. Don't see why a well-secured camera (between your legs) wouldn't get you the shots you're looking for... Now if you could just find one in your area. Make sure and have plenty of petrol and insurance...

[J Michael]

Mikko, what are the big risks to which you refer with respect to flying/filming in a helicopter?

In my view, activities have risks which can be mitigated when the potential loss and/or probability of occurrence is sufficiently high to warrant such mitigation. To do this one needs to be able to state what those risks are. For example, falling out of the helicopter might be considered a risk that could be mitigated through the use of proper equipment.

So it would be useful to know which risks that you know should be addressed when considering use of a helicopter for filming.

[mikkowilson]

...Did you run that Search I sugested?

There are many many risks, and I'm not going to go into them (again) here.

But the bottom line is that; if you are getting your information about arial filming from an public online forum, then you shouldn't be dooing it.


- Mikko

[Sad Max]

And no shot is ever worth risking your life for.

- Mikko

Although some shots are apparently worth risking *other* people's lives for.

Just ask John Landis.

[J Michael]

Well, if anyone finds a list of risks, here's how to do the risk mitigation exercise:

1. For each risk, evaluate its probability on a 1-3 scale.

2. If the risk were to occur, evaluate its impact on a 1-3 scale.

3. Multiply probability rank in #1 by the impact rank in #2.

4. If the product is greater than your risk threshhold, you must mitigate the risk.

Example:

Risk threshhold=4

1. Risk of heart attack due to fear = 2
2. Impact = 3 (death)
3. 2x3=6

Risk mitigation required since 6 > 4: Don't fly.

[Arson]

Any mini helicopter that would hold a video camera will be easily over $1000, loud, vibrate alot, be unstable and wobbly with any decent camera attached. And unless you are an experienced RC helicopter pilot, there is about a 99% chance that the first time you try to take off you will flip the helicopter over and completely destroy both it and your camera. R/C helicopters that are not gyroscope leveled and/or computer flown, are so unstable that even experienced pilots test fly them with a pyramid of pontoons longer than the prop (as a counter weight to prevent flipping) and even then they usually keep in on a 4 foot tether until they can fly it flawlessly.

http://www.helihobby.com/html/training_gear.html

[Wayne Kinney]

Perfectly put.

I fly R/C helicopters myself as one of my hobbies, they are amazingly danagerous and difficult to fly.

This is why in my previous post i suggested going to an RC flying club if you wish to go down this road.

[Ki-Ki]

Well thanks for all the advice. I'm going location scouting for easier locations probably tommorow more than sunday. I think I have a good road to go down. So thanks for all the feedback. I'll let you know how it turned out.

[jeremytuttle]

Good luck.

[rat6666]

If you want motion shots low to the ground, find someone with a large remote control airship (25'+ long). It'll be big enough to lift a five-pound DVX and stable enough in light winds that you wouldn't get much rocking. Best times of day to do it are early morning and late afternoon. Not only will the winds be calmest, you'll get good golden hour lighting if the sun is positioned right.

I'd nix the idea of finding a hot air balloon pilot to take you up, unless you are just looking for a static shot of a location and you absolutely cannot find a solid ground position. If you're out of fixed locations, go for it.

I fly balloons for a living and film with my DVX as a hobby (and soon for additional living). I recently brought my DVX/tripod up in the balloon and was able to get non-OIS shots that rivaled and sometimes were better than handheld with OIS (at full 10x zoom). There is normally a lot of rocking that will upset a shot on a normal balloon flight, with other passengers moving around in the basket and constantly unsettling the balance.

With just myself and a friend that was cooperating, we stayed very still and the only motion was the gentle rotation and swaying of the balloon as we climbed and descended rapidly. When in extended level flight, it was absolutely still when we were not moving in the basket. You'd need a calm day like we had to get the same results.

Hot air balloon shots can be accomplished with quite stable results - but ONLY if the flight is specifically for getting those shots, and all occupants are working towards that goal.

Good luck!

Let us know how you make out.

[Sad Max]

Is the balloon in your avatar yours?

Very tasty.

Always wanted to skydive from a hot-air balloon...they tell me it's a totally different exit than what you get off a Twin Otter or even a C.172...