Shooting from a helicopter advice

[disjecta]

There's a guy on the lake who I've been talking to about doing some flyover shots in his helicopter. He's very accomodating and is willing to remove the door for the shoot.

I have absolutely no experience doing this and want to get the smoothest shots possible without having to invest in lots of equipment.

In fact, I have absolutely no money to put towards any kind of stabilizer right now so I'd appreciate any thoughts from those who have done this before.

Thanks

[joachim]

without any kind of stabilization your shots won't look very good.
The minimum is some kind of bungee you knot to the frame of the
helicopter and suspend the camera from it. We always use latex
tubing that is used in hospitals (my wife is a doc...)
If you want really stable shots I'd suggest renting a Taylor Mount

[SafetyO]

As mentioned above, it's a Tyler Mount. *Too expensive for what you're thinking of doing.

I think that you'll find with the door off, and at a slower airspeed, combined with the DVX's OSD, your shots will be OK. *We shoot quite a lot of video from helicopters where I work. (a helicopter company... :)*All in all, it looks like footage taken from a helicopter, complete with the vibration.

You'll find that the biggest limitation is probably the wind direction on the day of the shoot. *Helicopters perform better when heading into the wind, especially at low altitudes and low airspeed. *It's bad business going downwind at low altitude and low airspeed if something happens. *Flight safety comes first.

Depending on the helicopter you'd be riding in, (I'm thinking R-22), it will probably have a 1 to 1 vertical vibration. Just think about sitting in a chair and bouncing up and down, ever so slightly, twice every second. *That is what it will feel like. The OSD on the DVX will remove a lot of that movement and I think you'll find that your shots, while not perfectly smooth, will be acceptable.

Tyler mounts are very expensive to rent, and most come with a camera operator. *I know that Tyler makes one to fit on a Bell 206, but I'm not sure about the R-22. *Like I said, it's out of most peoples budget. *The helicopter alone is very expensive. *If someone is offering for free, I'd take them up on it. JMHO.

[ericcosh]

I've done quite a bit of shooting from a helicopter, everything from GB2's, Jet Rangers, Hueys, & Robinsons. As far as how to shoot, that depends on your budget.

If you don't have a budget, here are some suggestions. You have to shoot wide. It's far better for the pilot to get low for you to get your shot, rather than you trying to zoom in. Zooming in without a good stabilzation unit is just not going to work. You can in fact shoot without any stabilation unit if you're very careful. Make certain that you attach your camera with a very good strap around your neck if you're shooting with an open door. Shooting from the side is far superior to attempting to shoot forward for many reasons. Vibration in a helicopter is a bear so make sure you let the camera "float" instead of trying to "brace" it with your arms against any part of the helicopter.

This is a perfect time to use your OIS. The DVX has one of the best OIS systems for the money that I've used. Have the pilot fly very slow and circle over parts that you're really interested in. Keep checking the front of your lens for any foreign material that may have blown onto your lens.

Hope this helps,

eric

[disjecta]

Okay, thank you. Some excellent suggestions. I'm thinking of using the OIS and placing the camera on a "SteadyBag" (I think it's got sand it in and I've used it for car shots with little or no vibration at full wide.)

[pookie_old]

Now I'll put this right up front to get this out of the way...I question some of those responding as ever shot from any aircraft, including a heli.

To recommend a Tyler mount to use with a DVX is embarassing, much like saying it needs a OConnor 50-200 on the top of a Manfrotto.

Hanging a camera from surgical rubber....innovative....but I would never fly with any pilot that allowed any unsecured object to dangle from anything, let alone a "slingshot" with a 4lb dead weight, the safety violations boggle the mind.

To question about a Tyler for an R-22 or R-44, unfortunatly shows a lack of knowledge of airborne shoots....sorry.

As far as IOS, yes it will help, as far as putting the camera on a steadibag....you might just as well set it on the floor and put your foot on it, it's not going to absorb much, if any vibration...cars and heli's are two different beasts.

Unfortunatly, considering your budget, or lack there of, you'll have to shoot handheld, as that's about the best hope you've really got, it "can" be done, but you're still going to get some shakey footage.

Before the inevitable questions, yes I shoot airborne, yes I have a DVX100, and I shoot with a Steadicam ProVid 2 system, with a custom mount, and a Kenyon Admiral KS-8 system gyro.

Airborne is a specialty, but anyone can come up with some very good shots handheld, just not every minute of what you shot.

[disjecta]

Okay, well handheld it is, if I can get a few seconds of steady footage with each shot, I can create some sort of decent collage. Anyway, this is just a fun experiment and I appreciate everyone's input.

[pookie_old]

disjecta, if you're after some specific shot, make them towards the end of the flight, after you've gotten some feel for the motions etc, and you've adjusted yourself to get the best smooth shots.
The last shots on your tape are probably going to be the steady ones.

Good luck, you'll have a blast.

[SafetyO]

Now I'll put this right up front to get this out of the way...I question some of those responding as ever shot from any aircraft, including a heli.

To recommend a Tyler mount to use with a DVX is embarassing, much like saying it needs a OConnor 50-200 on the top of a Manfrotto.

To question about a Tyler for an R-22 or R-44, unfortunatly shows a lack of knowledge of airborne shoots....sorry.



I only mentioned the Tyler Mount to clairify what another responded to, calling it a Taylor Mount. *I've flown with a Tyler mount several times in Hawaii, but I didn't recommend one for the shoot.

Tyler makes several mounts, and no, I didn't check to see if it was available for the R-22 or R-44. *After looking at Tyler's website, it appears they don't have an STC for one anyway. *But I'm sure if there was a way to get a supplemental type certificate for the Robby's, they would.

Some of the Tyler Mount work I did was in 1986 on Maui, in a Bell 206, for the TV show "Growing Pains". *I was the pilot for South Seas Helicopters, (now Blue Hawaiian). I've also flown for several gulf coast helicopter operators, that have used Tyler's for promotional shots, and several times just using hand held shots for the "6 o'clock news". *I've used my own DVX hand held from the front and back seats in several of my present company's videos. I've never been behind the camera for a Tyler shoot, so I guess I don't really qualify answer a Tyler camera question. However, I suppose a DVX mounted on Tyler would be like killing ants with a steam roller. *A bit much...

[ericcosh]

Very nice response SafetyO. You have wonderful self control.

I find forums simply amazing sometimes. Someone asks for help or advice. Someone responds trying to give the best advise they can, and for their efforts, many times they get slammed by someone who claims that everyone else is wrong!

As I recall, someone asks advice on shooting from a helicopter. Several of us jumped in who have had previous experience (or at least percieved experience) shooting in helicopters to give some advise or suggestions. *Isn't that what the forum is all about? Do we have to give our resume in order to make a reply on this forum? If I stated that I've shot both photographs and video from at least five different makes of helicopters, is it now up to me to prove it before I'm allowed to proffer suggestions?

If someone makes at statement that is just plain false, then by all means, we should post what we feel is the correct answer without attacking them personally.

my 2 cents,

eric

[pookie_old]

ericcosh, please accept my apologies for including your response in with the others.
Your ideas were in fact quite to the point and correct.
As far as discussing a Tyler, these are pro mounts, that rent for almost as much per day as a new DVX sells for, to discuss these mounts for a DVX is rediculous, they are used for 10 + pound cameras....

As the original question was from someone with no experience in airborne shooting, who also wants to shoot open door, to say to use surgical tubing is both foolish and dangerous, and does not belong in such a discussion.

There is a fine line between "helping out" with ideas, and supplying what could be misleading, dangerous ideas (surgical tubing).

SafetyO, as you say your a pilot, perhaps you should have an opinion to the rubber tubing stabilizer describer in an earlier post.

Sorry to SafetyO and ericcosh, if you're experienced in airborne shoots, the post by joachim should have generated much the same response as mine, albeit toned down. This is the reason to question your experience.

[ericcosh]

Hi Pookie:

First off, you are absolutely right about the "bungee" idea for holding a camera. I should have mentioned that I felt it also was a very bad idea not only from the safety point of view, but also the possibility of losing your camera.

I have to tell you Pookie that I don't disagree with anything that you said with regard to suggestions. I think that you were right on target. I took your statement about some of us not having any experience in an aircraft, let alone a helicopter personally. I realize now where you were coming from and I thank you for your reply.

take care,

eric

[SafetyO]

Gee...isn't this fun pookie and ericcosh ;D

The last thing I saw hanging from a bungee cord was an M-60 machine gun out the side of a huey. It does not make a very good gun mount, nor does it make a good camera mount. (although I understand the reasoning behing it) As far as safety goes, you can't legally attach anything to the airframe or cabin roof without a STC (supplemental type certificate). There isn't one for a "bungee camera mount" that I'm aware of. We would not do it where I work.

Over the years, I've flown videographers and still camera guys that wanted to try all kinds of mounting and shooting situations. Turn the helicopter this way, turn the helicopter that way, can't we just fly sideways at 100 knots? The fact of the matter is, the shooting limitation IS THE HELICOPTER. That is why mounts like the Tyler system were conceived, but even they have their limitations. It's the helicopters performance and flight characteristics that place a limit on some aerial shots. A good camera crew that regularly flies with a Tyler system know this. A Tyler's main purpose in life is to stabilize the camera. Without some kind of a gyro mounted camera system, you get the hand held look.

I've seen the posted footage from disjecta on this forum. Amazingly excellent video. If anyone could blend in aerial footage, he could. I say go for it.

[kplo]

Safety0,
Are you sayin' that it's now illegal to mount 2 bungees X fashion in the doorframe as a "handheld rest" (not hanging the camera from one)?
Used to do this quite a bit when shooting with my old Eclair ACLII 16mm rig (everything was saftied off, of course). It helped kill most vibration very well ...a least in Rangers and the occasional Alouette.
I think what folks don't realize, is that the pilot does the real work in this situation. Without a "pro" mount, the best you can do is just frame it up and keep it relatively wide. And, as has been mentioned, don't brace your arms or the camera against any part of the aircraft to avoid transferring vibration.
Also, communicate to the pilot what you want to accomplish before you take off...Saves time, fuel and $$.
Hope this helps.
Ken

[SafetyO]

Safety0,
Are you sayin' that it's now illegal to mount 2 bungees X fashion in the doorframe as a "handheld rest" (not hanging the camera from one)?
Ken

The way the FAA looks at it is this. If it wasn't installed by the manufacturer and certified, or there is not an STC that allows an installation of some type of "extra" equipment, it's illegal. That doesn't mean that folks don't try it. I know it sounds ridiculous, but that's the way it is.

[DVX100Shooter]

First thing is to put your shoulder strap on the camera and wear it around your neck/back so you can cradle the camera.

Another tip is to try to shoot wide. If you try to shoot close ups from the air, your video will be VERY shaky and will not come out good at all.

If you shoot on a 1/100 or 1/125 shutter, then slow the video down in post it will make a better looking shot. I have cranked up the shutter speed pretty high before and shot the propellors going around around and had them look like they were barely moving. The director of the movie S.W.A.T. used this technique for a helicopter shot.

Back to stabilization. You might have to rent a DV Rig pro. I would still wear the shoulder strap around my body for added assurance the camera won't get flung out of the helicopter (that is if the doors are open).

I have not shot with my DVX from a helicopter however I have shot tons of b-roll with a Betacam from one. I spent 2 hours in the air New years Eve 1999 going into Y2K shooting fireworks from the air! That was probably one of my best shooting experiences from the helicopter...you can also get some cool sunsets from up there too!

[Segarza]

Shoot 30P then put it on a 24P timeline, like overcranking the camera a bit. Wil help to get smoother shots.

[xort]

As has been mentioned, it's the helicopter that does most of the work. And to do GOOD work you need a good helicopter, or excellent conditions. Most small helos will do poorly because they don't have a strong enough motor to overcome the wind directions SMOOTHLY. Not saying they can't fly in a breeze but they will be more prone to unsteady movement in a breeze, especially if you are turning or flying across the wind. So If you are flying with a small helo, go on a calm morning. Also, fly in the morning or evening where you have some definition from the strong cross light. Midday is less desirable. Stay wide but be carefull about getting the rotors in the shot, distracting. I love the shoot 30P and edit at 24P idea.

[Prairieboy]

One small thing that was not mentioned that will make a big difference with your shots. Let the helicopter itself do any type of pans and or tilts. It is best to just hold the camera tight with no mount and let the pilot do hir or her best. It will work out much smoother.

[pookie_old]

xort, good points, but it's actually the pilot that makes or breaks a shoot. I've been up in R22's in Australia shooting herding footage, a good pilot will give you whatever you need for smooth shots, whatever they're flying.

The trick is to use experienced pilots, not someone looking to build time.

[DVX100Shooter]

I got some really cool Aerial shots with the door off the chopper I was flying in. I cradled the camera in my lap and braced it against my body and like Prairieboy stated I let the helicopter do the work of panning for me. I got this one really cool shot where we had just taken off, the pilot raised the chopper straight up off the ground some then he dipped the front end down some as sped up off and upward over a body of water! It was a little scary but in the end it made for a really cool shot!