XHA1 NY Clip [Archive] - DVXuser.com -- The online community for filmmaking

Elton

11-12-2006, 07:49 PM

One shot with a few simple cc's in FCP just to show different looks. All handheld in 24F mode with OIS engaged.

150 MB h.264 (2 min.) http://www.realm.cc/upload/Elton/FacesInTheCrowd.mov
http://www.realm.cc/upload/Elton/XHA1-TimesSquarePic.jpg
http://www.realm.cc/upload/Elton/Yuppie.jpg

Mirezzi

11-12-2006, 08:50 PM

Is that stock lens or M2? 24F? Can you give a quick rundown of the settings it was shot with? I liked your CC, it improved everything dramatically.

Elton

11-12-2006, 08:54 PM

Stock lens. Intentionally shot a bit flat for post.

-- Cinegamma 2
-- -3 db
-- Sharpness -3
-- Knee Low

Pretty much everything else neutral. Telephoto about 75% (wide on the Times Square shot)

Mirezzi

11-12-2006, 08:56 PM

Stock lens. Intentionally shot a bit flat for post.

-- Cinegamma 2
-- -3 db
-- Sharpness -3
-- Knee Low

Pretty much everything else neutral. Telephoto about 75% (wide on the night Times Square shot)

What do you mean by telephoto 75% (sorry, I know that sounds stupid)? You were toward the end of the focal length?

Mirezzi

11-12-2006, 08:57 PM

Hey Elton, what are you using to capture? I mean, what's your work flow? Are you using the camera to capture? FCP or Vegas?

Elton

11-12-2006, 08:58 PM

Yes, about 3/4 through the full zoom length available. (15x)

Elton

11-12-2006, 08:59 PM

FPC HDV 1080p 24 preset. Rendered to h.264 720p just to be able to post a longer clip.

Kevin Dorsey

11-12-2006, 09:00 PM

Thanks Elton, I was very happy when that clip opened up and it was huge. It's been hard to judge the footage by viewing small clips. This has been the first footage that has me really thinking about purchasing this cam. I will now watch it for the tenth time.

Being a PC user I'm just waiting to see how the editing situation pans out and if Premiere will support 24f output to tape. Thanks again.

-Kevin

phally

11-12-2006, 09:00 PM

Hey Elton,

where can I set the A1 to -3?

thanks

Mirezzi

11-12-2006, 09:00 PM

Are you capturing by using the camera as your deck? That's the last thing I'm concerned about before I just plop down money and buy one of these things. I really don't want to wear out the heads by capturing from the camera but I assume you can't capture 24F footage from these tapes from any ole DV deck.

Elton

11-12-2006, 09:02 PM

Elton

11-12-2006, 09:04 PM

Hey Sack,

It looks sharp in 1080 too--I simply wanted to post a longer clip with some minor cc's just to give a feel for the image flexibility and motion rendition.

Makes a pretty good 720p camera too, I reckon. :)

phally

11-12-2006, 09:07 PM

opps.

stupid me..

found the -3 in the gain settings

Mirezzi

11-12-2006, 09:18 PM

yes, from the camera. I'll be testing a Firestore C soon, so I'll let you know if you even need to worry about tape capture at all. :)

If it's a big concern, get the HV10 and use it as a playback deck. (and use it on vacations too ;)

Yeah, those Firestores are incredibly expensive though ($2000 aren't they?), and part of the attraction with the A1 has been its "63 minutes for $10" feature.

Although, I have to say, that HV10 looks like a wicked b-role / vacation camera!

George D

11-12-2006, 09:19 PM

A few observations:

1. I love it when in full telephoto, there is such a small area in the foreground and the background where the walkers are in focus. Also, OIS perfection. Imagine this camera while using a fig-rig or something.
2. Nightime shots are awesome - less/no vertical smear on headlights.
3. The camera felt/looked solid, well built. I actually handled the little beauty @ Barlow's house.
4. An XLH1 in a DVX-form factor and even more crazy--very close to a DVX-price. How can you beat that? It's a no brainer.
5. This is my 2nd favorite camera of all time (Barlow knows my favorite) - ha ha.
6. "Film-like" is not even a term worth mentioning these days.

I want one!!!!

prodigywookie

11-12-2006, 09:24 PM

wow. an amazing clip that shows what kind of CC these clips can handle without breaking down.. very very nice. thanx for sharing and thanks for hyping me up for my A1 :D

Kevin Dorsey

11-12-2006, 10:14 PM

5. This is my 2nd favorite camera of all time (Barlow knows my favorite) - ha ha
What's your first George?

Elton, what kind of render times are you getting with the HD footage?
(Credit card comes out of wallet)

-Kevin

George D

11-12-2006, 10:21 PM

I'm a big time JVC HD100 advocate :-) But I like all these new HD cams - every single one of them.

Noel Evans

11-12-2006, 10:40 PM

Downloading now. That crowd shot looks beautiful. Good enough to use in a serious piece (just based on the still), mice facial exposure on the guy on the right and luckily some natural light in the rear thats acting as nice kicker. With all the people behind theres some nice texture.

Kevin, as I say just about everytime I have posted new stuff, if you want a HUGE m2t for any part of it just let me know. Its just doing clips the way Elston has for a lot of clips, well thats a lot of bandwidth. Looking at my webstats to two days ago 500 people downloaded Ginza night scene - now if the file was 200mb well thats getting pretty high on one clip alone.

Elton

11-12-2006, 10:45 PM

Elton, what kind of render times are you getting with the HD footage?
(Credit card comes out of wallet)

-Kevin

I'll have to get back to you on that because my workflow doesn't really involve rendering out a final HDV product. (although I can do this without any trouble)

Essentially, I get realtime transitions and color correction while editing in an HDV sequence. (the latter I believe is due to the Kona card. It does accelerate HDV to some degree)

When I'm happy with my edit, I copy/paste the sequence into a Sheer codec 1080 timeline (basically uncompressed quality) and do final renders. The advantage of this method is that it avoids an extra generation of compression before encoding for delivery. (h.264)

Basically, with HDV I get realtime editing and a minimal render time when I output back to tape. Render times always depend on how much the footage has been manipulated. In this case it took about 2-2.5x realtime for a finished render ready for output to tape.

Rendering to the Sheer codec was actually much faster.

Elton

11-12-2006, 10:46 PM

Looking at my webstats to two days ago 500 people downloaded Ginza night scene - now if the file was 200mb well thats getting pretty high on one clip alone.

Yeah, it's a little scary isn't it? I may need to take the NY clip down in a day or two-- nevertheless, I thought it was worthwhile footage to look at.

Elton

11-12-2006, 11:02 PM

Yeah, those Firestores are incredibly expensive though ($2000 aren't they?), and part of the attraction with the A1 has been its "63 minutes for $10" feature.

Although, I have to say, that HV10 looks like a wicked b-role / vacation camera!

Yes, they're not cheap. We'll see if they're worth it.

btw, it's more like "63 minutes for *$5*". :)

Elton

11-12-2006, 11:13 PM

...and thanks for hyping me up for my A1 :D

Fortunately, I think it's actually living up to the hype. You bought a great camera. :)

Kevin Dorsey

11-12-2006, 11:29 PM

Basically, with HDV I get realtime editing and a minimal render time when I output back to tape. Render times always depend on how much the footage has been manipulated. In this case it took about 2-2.5x realtime for a finished render ready for output to tape.
Thanks Elton, I was just looking for a ballpark figure. Sounds like your setup is allowing a nice workflow.

Ncje, I figured you were getting pummeled with all the downloads. You've been the pioneer with the a1, and your test clips have been very valuable in my decision making. Thanks to both of you guys for helping me to potentially empty my wallet.
(DVX for sale!)

-Kevin

rawfa

11-13-2006, 12:18 AM

Noel Evans

11-13-2006, 12:40 AM

Elton, the grabs bust some extremely serious ass. The DOF looks like the dof you would get from a 35mm adapter. I'm starting to think if it'll really be worth it buying one to go with the A1. I'm abroad right now so I can't download the clip...but I will do it as soon as I get home (how much of a nerd am I)

Have to agree that the DOF on this cam and its boke (japanese spelling) is very organic and just looks great. Hard to achieve in a small interior which is where the m2 comes in like a champion. Great for music vids etc.

Noel Evans

11-13-2006, 12:48 AM

Essentially, I get realtime transitions and color correction while editing in an HDV sequence. (the latter I believe is due to the Kona card. It does accelerate HDV to some degree)

Just throw this in: I am editing on a new 20 inch imac with FCP studio running dual monitors and Im getting realtime on cc also during edit. I was initially suprised. Of course no Kona card. I have maxed out the RAM wondering if that makes the difference.

Emanuel

11-13-2006, 01:25 AM

Elton, the grabs bust some extremely serious ass. The DOF looks like the dof you would get from a 35mm adapter. I'm starting to think if it'll really be worth it buying one to go with the A1.I fully agree!* I'll shoot with it as soon as available in Europe. Next December, right Rafa?

* Amazing. The best bokeh in the 1/3" range. -3db is also my favorite gain setup @lowlighting. I remember the most beautiful shots that I've seen, coming out from the Pappas' hands. BTW, do you know any news about him Barlow? How is he going?

henry cho

11-13-2006, 02:05 AM

cool stuff barlow. thanks for posting that. the cam on -3 gain seems to really puts out some gorgeous stuff, even in low available light.

in any case, i hope you had a good time in the city. the pace can get to be a little overwhelming, and i grew up here ;).

Noel Evans

11-13-2006, 03:38 AM

Had another look just now, and what its telling me is the same thing I have been finding. I was always worried initially with cc on HDV, but this stuff is holding up beautifully. My other experience with HDV is on the JVC HD100 and there is never any cc applied.

Elton

11-13-2006, 06:47 AM

BTW, do you know any news about him Barlow? How is he going?

He's doing well, and thinking about getting an A1 now. Sigh. ;-)

Elton

11-13-2006, 06:51 AM

Just throw this in: I am editing on a new 20 inch imac with FCP studio running dual monitors and Im getting realtime on cc also during edit. I was initially suprised. Of course no Kona card. I have maxed out the RAM wondering if that makes the difference.

That's great news! I'm glad you get RT CC because that is one of the most enjoyable things to do with A1 footage.

You really can push it all over the place for all kinds of looks, and ironically, it would seem that all the image control will (for most people) amount to a few basic looks shot in-camera, with most opting for a neutral image to shape later on in post.

Kholi

11-13-2006, 11:09 AM

Wow great clip, Elton. I like the image pulled here. That's sick as hell.

=( I was so close to going ahead and buying an A1 this past weekend. Gah.

I wanna see more 35mm adapter footage. But this is the best I've seen so far from the A1

rawfa

11-13-2006, 01:26 PM

redfuse

11-13-2006, 01:43 PM

Norbert

11-13-2006, 02:23 PM

Wicked shots! I bet that zoom shot would have been awesome in slow motion.

Elton

11-13-2006, 08:58 PM

I got home about an hour ago but I'm still picking up pieces of my jaw on the flor after watching this clip. Elton, you hound! Your footages rocks the house, my friend! Tell us a little bit more of what was done on post.

Thanks rawfa. Well, I hate to be boring but the process was simple:

--Shot relatively flat and neutral looking footage for more CC flexibility
--Captured and edited with the new HDV 24F support in FCP 5.1.2 (it's really nice)
--Copied the HDV edit into a less compressed timeline for a final render (bypassing the "conform to HDV process")
--Encoded a 720p h.264 QT via MPEG Streamclip. (still a very useful utility program)

Does that help?

Elton

11-13-2006, 09:00 PM

Wicked shots! I bet that zoom shot would have been awesome in slow motion.

Yes, I thought about shooting 1080i for a slowmo effect, but I had very little time before I had to make a plane so I just shot what I could.

Elton

11-13-2006, 09:03 PM

I thought the first grab was a bit soft, but then I saw in your clip it's from a panning shot so it's probably motion blur. The zoom shot is very nice, am I right you don't see the same cc in the clip that you used on the 2nd grab?

redfuse

You know what, I made a mistake on that first grab. I've been experimenting with different chroma smoothing techniques, and just in general taking the edge off of some the inherent sharpness of the footage, so in that shot there's actually a 1.5 pixel Gaussian blur applied to it. (strange, I know)

I forgot to export from the timeline that I didn't have that effect applied. The Times Square shot is actually much sharper than what you see in that grab.

rawfa

11-13-2006, 09:27 PM

Thanks rawfa. Well, I hate to be boring but the process was simple:

--Shot relatively flat and neutral looking footage for more CC flexibility
--Captured and edited with the new HDV 24F support in FCP 5.1.2 (it's really nice)
--Copied the HDV edit into a less compressed timeline for a final render (bypassing the "conform to HDV process")
--Encoded a 720p h.264 QT via MPEG Streamclip. (still a very useful utility program)

Does that help?

Actualy, what I wanted to know is how you color corrected it. Or was it all done on-camera?!?!?!...which would make me pick the pieces of my jaw all over again :)

Elton

11-13-2006, 09:33 PM

No, not in-camera. I made few simple adjustments in the 3 way color corrector in FCP.

In the first cc shot I dropped the blacks, saturated a bit and pushed for a semi-warm look, with an emphasis on earthy tones. The second I dropped the blacks and went for a bluish, cold feel.

I am by no means a CC master--it was just a matter of playing around with the controls.

It can definitely be done in-camera too, but it would take more time to tweak the look in the field, and of course that gives you a "baked in" palette with less flexibility in post.

whachusay

11-14-2006, 05:04 AM

Im blown away by this footage. I'm buying this camera. Elton your the man! Thanks :)

CarlSpackler

11-14-2006, 07:05 AM

What was your shutter speed?

Elton

11-14-2006, 07:23 AM

1/48 shutter

CarlSpackler

11-14-2006, 08:13 AM

1/48 shutter

thank you. outstanding stuff.

Christopher Barry

11-14-2006, 05:30 PM

Thanks Elton, appreciate the footage to view/drool over.

ncje, where is the best place to purchase one of these in Tokyo? I don't mind Japanese version/menu. Thanks.

prodigywookie

11-14-2006, 07:16 PM

You know what, I made a mistake on that first grab. I've been experimenting with different chroma smoothing techniques, and just in general taking the edge off of some the inherent sharpness of the footage, so in that shot there's actually a 1.5 pixel Gaussian blur applied to it. (strange, I know)

I forgot to export from the timeline that I didn't have that effect applied. The Times Square shot is actually much sharper than what you see in that grab.

i would love to see the original version (before the blurring). Of course only if you've got time on your hands. plus, i need something to do for the next couple of days besides homework :D

Martin Landsburg

11-14-2006, 07:41 PM

having trouble downloading, the page keeps loading with a QT logo, but no timeline. Tried it in IE and Firefox. Can it be downloaded with a download accelerator? Or has the file been taken down already?

prodigywookie

11-14-2006, 07:44 PM

try right+clicking it and selecting "save target as". then just save it to your computer.

Drew Ott

11-14-2006, 07:58 PM

Been DLing for 26 minutes -- enough time for me to read the thread twice, shower, get dessert, and it's still not finished. I'm dying to see this.

Elton

11-14-2006, 09:24 PM

sorry guys, I should've specifiec to right clickity. :)

Noel Evans

11-15-2006, 02:08 AM

Thanks Elton, appreciate the footage to view/drool over.

ncje, where is the best place to purchase one of these in Tokyo? I don't mind Japanese version/menu. Thanks.

Sorry Elton to throw this in your thread:

Christopher I have a recommendation but they never ship internationally - are you in Tokyo at the moment or coming? If so I would be happy to take you to my dealer. The cams have a language option and can be set at: German, English, Spanish, French, Italian, Polish, Russian, Chinese or Japanese. When you buy from the Japan its set by default as Japanese, but I can give you clear instruction to change it.

Christopher Barry

11-15-2006, 02:50 AM

Dennis Wood

11-15-2006, 11:56 AM

Elton, thanks for posting that clip. The V1u review posted at dvinfo mentioned issues with HDV compression "stuttering" footage during a slow even pan. Sony's HDV implemenation also seemed to "choke" on some shots, for example, moving water. I'm very curious to know how Canon's implementation of HDV fares under the same tests.

I'm wondering if you could try a slow pan over a contrasty scene, and the water shot (pan over sunlit, disturbed water??) and let us know how Canon's HDV holds up? I've been looking at the HVX, A1 and potentially the V1u (who isn't?) and like many are looking to see if the price difference makes HDV an acceptable compromise.

Kholi

11-15-2006, 08:53 PM

It's been tested. And it holds up great.

It's a shame to hear the V1u is turning out like this. Elton does have plenty of clips showing this, so go for it.

HDV honestly isn't really a compromise right now. It might've been before. Then again, it's all about what YOU want to do, anyway.

Dennis Wood

11-15-2006, 11:03 PM

Well, I've read enough. Ordered one today from Leo's Camera in Vancouver (Canada). Their pricing was $4499 CAN, about $3800 US which was a pleasant surprise. Normally Canadian vendors are much higher then their US counterparts. So far, Leo's has been great to deal with.

I'll be posting plenty of clips with the Brevis35 and all the toys. An HD testing platform is long overdue :-)

rawfa

11-15-2006, 11:22 PM

Looking forward to seeing those tests, old chap!

Christopher Barry

11-16-2006, 12:08 AM

wd Dennis. The Brev and those lenses are going to rock. :thumbsup:

TimurCivan

11-16-2006, 12:12 AM

Elton that funky "interlace artifact" around the red light in the Faces shot. does that show un in playback in 1080P??? is it like a line twitter? or do you not see it?

Noel Evans

11-16-2006, 12:39 AM

ncje, thank you very kindly for your reply. I have relatives in Japan, I may ask one to bring over an A1 in the next few months to Australia. Of course there are the many shop at Akihabura, I was curious if you recommend any. I am in Australia, I don't think I will make it to Japan this year or next. Japan is so much fun, I miss my adventures I had there in previous years. Thanks again.

For PC, macs, shomei, any electronic components to do anything Akihabara is the place to go. THere is a few small broadcast shops that offer mostly support equipment etc but are usually way overpriced on their cams.

Christopher Barry

11-16-2006, 03:59 AM

For PC, macs, shomei, any electronic components to do anything Akihabara is the place to go. THere is a few small broadcast shops that offer mostly support equipment etc but are usually way overpriced on their cams.
Thanks ncje, in due course, I'll get the rels to look into it at Electric Town.

Elton

11-16-2006, 07:05 AM

Elton that funky "interlace artifact" around the red light in the Faces shot. does that show un in playback in 1080P??? is it like a line twitter? or do you not see it?

I think it's the limitations of an 8 bit codec in an overexposed area. It might also be a limitation of 4:2:0 sampling but I don't find it to be bothersome, and it can also be smoothed in post if it is.

TimurCivan

11-16-2006, 12:10 PM

nah i think its the F part f 24F.

only becase a while ago somone was doing B&W with the XLH1, and put a red/magenta filter infront of the lens to bring out the contrast. BUT! it caused that interlace artifacting. granted thats REALLLLY pushing the codec hard, but it is there. i think camera internally uses the chroma smaples to generate Luma in the "inbetween" lines. if you saturate the CCD, it reads higher luma in that segment creting the interlace look.

My non engineer theory. but i am VERY VERY sersouly considering a XLH1. so this isnt a detrement to the machine. i LOVE it.

Elton

11-16-2006, 04:01 PM

Interesting theory Timur. I think going with lower sharpness and horizontal detail frequency can compensate somewhat for the issue too.

So, you're considering an H1? Is it for the lens options and SDI? For the money, the A1 is an exceptional performer.

TimurCivan

11-16-2006, 04:31 PM

I dont know. i cant figure out why im drawn to the H1..... its magnetic........ lol.

But im also considering the HD200, HVX200, V1u as well.

The problem is, this. Many clientel have specific needs. for example, if i shoot CAnon HDV 24F, I shoot 5 hours of footage for example, now the client needs to borrow my camera to digitize the footage or there has to be a second meeting hand off of hard drives. Thsi wastes SOOOO much time and money, and wear on my machine.

Same goes for the HD200, and the Sony. ( stupid HDV......)

HVX, granted has image weakness ( big offense to me), but offers MUCH fuller versatility. DVCpro (25,50,100 variframes etc.....) Yet the HVX also runs an as of now, a relativly imcompatible PRO format with the clientel i work with ( ametuer fimmakers Broadcast news divisions....... Yet, i can hand them the footage right to their hardives through my computer....... so there is no second meeting. also there is the HDrack DVCpro => AVI converter. so they can now have editable files.

But the picture itself is teh WEAKPOINT!!!!!!! the one thing that should NOT be!!!!!!!!

all that flexibilty for a weaker pciture!!!!!! ARRRGRHRRGRHGRHRGRGHR!!!!!!

im probably gonna buckle and get the HVX just so i can offer any format the client needs... but i will get bitten by Buyers remorse, and dream about RAZOR sharp footage for the rest of my life.

Kholi

11-16-2006, 06:03 PM

Thank you, Timur. My sentiments exactly.

The H1/A1/ image is so much more pleasing than the HVX's image, but the HVX is a bad ass camera as it sits. That makes it harder to decide.

Don't feel bad, dude. You're not the only one that feels like that.

Elton

11-16-2006, 08:00 PM

Timur,

I understand your dilemma. What NLE's do your clients normally use? I'm currently using a Firestore C which allows me to capture HDV as m2t's or as FCP-friendly QT HDV clips, in F mode or standard 1080i.

With the current 24F support in the latest FCP, it's a no-brainer. It's just as tapeless as P2, but for safety I roll tape and simply put them away and use my Firestore files.

filmmaker1977

11-16-2006, 08:01 PM

TimurCivan

11-16-2006, 10:36 PM

elton are you in ny?

Elton

11-17-2006, 06:46 AM

Nope, I'm home. I was only there for a few days, but I'll be back in a few months for an upcoming project. I'll holler at ya when that happens.

TimurCivan

11-17-2006, 10:19 AM

k wanna see xlh1.... >:)

SamKam

01-11-2007, 02:10 PM

Elton-
Great footage. Thank you. Was instrumental in helping me to decide to purchase the A1 a couple of weeks ago.
Have been meaning to ask you -
Did you shoot this handheld or with some kind of rig? And, if with a rig, what kind?

MrSleep

02-01-2007, 11:36 AM

Thanks rawfa. Well, I hate to be boring but the process was simple:

--Shot relatively flat and neutral looking footage for more CC flexibility
--Captured and edited with the new HDV 24F support in FCP 5.1.2 (it's really nice)
--Copied the HDV edit into a less compressed timeline for a final render (bypassing the "conform to HDV process")
--Encoded a 720p h.264 QT via MPEG Streamclip. (still a very useful utility program)

Does that help?

i am reading this thread for the second time trying to understand if your capture is via HDMI output with 4:2:2 color space?

excuse my naiveness, because if still only 4:2:0 why would one go through the hassle of tethering oneself to laptop?

Elton

02-01-2007, 11:39 AM

Boy, it's funny how these threads get buried over time. Sorry SamKam for not responding earlier--

It was all handheld; my technique was simply to have OIS engaged and hold the camera against my chest. It took a little getting used to but the results were very satisfactory for such a long zoom shot.

Elton

02-01-2007, 11:41 AM

i am reading this thread for the second time trying to understand if your capture is via HDMI output with 4:2:2 color space?

excuse my naiveness, because if still only 4:2:0 why would one go through the hassle of tethering oneself to laptop?

No, that was all simply HDV 24F tape acquisition. I did some very simple and crude CC's in an HDV 1080 24p timeline and then copy/pasted my the HDV edit into a Sheer codec timeline for final render. I then exported h.264 from the intermediate codec file.

Make sense? Bottom Line: The HDV is very workable in post.

Elton

02-01-2007, 11:55 AM

Wicked shots! I bet that zoom shot would have been awesome in slow motion.

I really wish I'd shot some 1080i for slowmo. It would've been pretty interesting.

TimurCivan

02-01-2007, 11:57 AM

i wish the HVX had a HDV option.......

So elton you were working on Mac's movie???

MrSleep

02-01-2007, 12:11 PM

thanks Elton!

up till now all the information i have read was to use 4:2:2 and 4:2:0 is not good beyond post color grading.

your footage gives a knock out example much higher than what i was expecting according to what i have read.

after seeing HV10 footage and your A1 with CC i am hopefull the HV20 will do the job quite nice.

Elton

02-01-2007, 12:24 PM

i wish the HVX had a HDV option.......

And I wish the H1/A1 had a VFR/DVCPRO HD option. :) With all my little fast/slowmo experiments you'd think I'd of bought a camera that was tailor-made for off-speed shots. I guess I'm a glutton for punishment. :P

So elton you were working on Mac's movie???

Well, I was originally going to help with Mac's shoot in the Salt Flats, but the timing this winter just wasn't gonna work for a predictable shoot. We were actually going to attempt a full HD-SDI shoot with the H1, but no go.

Hopefully he gets his Red and comes out to Utah sometime this year.

Here's a grab from a quick location scout shot I did with the A1 (I barely made it out there before dark) : http://realm.cc/upload/Elton/SaltFlats1-1.jpg

TimurCivan

02-01-2007, 12:34 PM

i havea friend whos buing a red too... I am like drooling wiating ofr him to buy it... lol

xray

02-01-2007, 03:45 PM

Here's a grab from a quick location scout shot I did with the A1 (I barely made it out there before dark) : http://realm.cc/upload/Elton/SaltFlats1-1.jpg

Dunno what it is Elton, but I always see a red cross when you place a grab. Now I'm quoting you I see the HTML. Strange.