First Wedding Completed

[KyleProhaska]

I shot my first wedding by myself last Friday and finished the video today. I can't really fix anything else in the video because ive used every shot I have to fix my mistakes in certain spots. Being my first im proud of how well it came out. If someone can give me a rating or something on it ide appreciate it. Btw, the cake thing at the end is random but the reception was rather small, no dancing, not anything so its pretty much the ceremony only. idk just figured ide get some feedback.

http://www.kyleprohaska.com/Wedding_1.mov

-Kyle

[Evro]

I think folks need to have quite a think skin and be quite brave to ask for opinions of their work in such a forums and for that KyleProhaska I commend you...

As an event guy myself here are my thoughts:

1) Overall I think your footage is rather flat looking and is in desparate need of more light. (If you're shooting with an XL2 did you have any gain on?)
2) Man you need to use cutaways because ceremonies do drag on especially when shot from the same angle. You've got the same frame running for about 3 minutes (2:15 to 5:33) and then another 6 minutes before changing to another angle. I don't know if there's a general rule on this but I try not to let the same image stay on screen for more than 4 seconds (unless there's something notable going on - but even then you change between CU/MS/WS.)
3) Learn some camera movement techniques - watch other wedding movies or get a hold of work from Randy Stubbs, Picture This Productions or Broadcast Camera Techniques from Elite Video.
4) When you are shooting the folks walking down the isle you must giving them walking room in the frame.
5) If this is a paying job, go out and shoot some establishing shots of the church inside & out and even from the reception hall and use them as cutaways.
6) What a beautiful couple - I loved the cake cutting scene.


KyleProhaska, I hope I haven't been too harsh, I don't mean to; I just think you need some guidance.
Regards,
Beziermask

[KyleProhaska]

i actually suspected all those comments lol. I do have reasons (excuses lol) for the way the video is. I could have more cutaways for sure but it had already been a week and I want to give it to them asap. Another thing is I was limited to move because of the sound hookup. I was hooked directly into the soundboard so I couldn't really go anywhere or else the sound would be messed up. I also had it on a tripod so there is a moment in between when I had to get it off as they walked down so I was a little flimsy as they got near me and didnt zoom out. The footage does look flat but unfortunatly I dont have a TV hooked ot my comptuer to check the correction just yet so I didnt touch it. I had the camera at -3 gain btw. Idk I think for a first it came out.....ok....but not so great. I don't really have a nice mic yet so it was a probelm to get good audio and move around so I chose the first option. Ill post my 2nd weddiung I did the following week as soon as I finish it. Ill need a zillion cut aways to fix my mistakes because I handheld it and I never have held the xl2 for so long. Lots of bobbing in some shots, ill have to get alot of those cutaway shots lol. O well I have more fun and family shots so I can do a music compilation at the end also, that makes it less boring.

If I had the money ide get a G2 wireless kit but I dont have the dough. The first mic I get will probably be a NTG-2. Its not high end but not too low end and should be good to start.

One last thing, the lights in the place couldn't be changed. One thing thats misleading in that file is when played on a TV its much brighter and vibrant, I forgot to mess with the levels for the web version. Other than that it seemed ok to me...but I could have done 100% better im sure. Well see how the 2nd one comes out.

and thanks!

-Kyle

[Noel Evans]

Kyle your shots look ok, agree that the still camera is a bit slow to watch. I know you had reason, but watching their backs in the ceremony was a drawback also. Make sure you take a longer connection next time so you have freedom when your hooked up. The editing needs some work also. In this case Id make them wait another week and really spruce it up. For example in the opening you follow bridesmaids? down the isle and then reverse pan to the start, then the next time you do a dissolve back to the start point. It looks a little sloppy IMO so maybe using the transition on the first pass would be better also.

As bezier said you need more backup footage of location etc. Give the opening a bit more life.

If your shooting on one cam alone, get those faces in the shot. You can always use some zoom and pan between faces and focal points can make it much more interesting to watch.

EDIT: Sorry wanted to add this, a church ceremony can be tedious at the best of times, so its really up to you to give it a little more life.

[Andrew Brinkhaus]

Kyle, my major question for you is...How are you exporting and retaining such great quality for a long clip like this!? Its killing me as I cant come up with anything close.

[moonlitnite]

Hi Kyle,

Thanks for sharing your first shoot. It's not easy to submit one's work for peer review - good for you and I'll include the bruttley honest feedback you hopefully want. Overall, the quality of the video is very nice – good job. However, the color temperature seems a bit too orange (perhaps a balance problem).

As others say, add footage before the wedding procession (outside church, etc – build anticipation) The initial B roll footage of the couple has it’s place but probably not at this point (more later) and don’t distract the focus of the Bridge and Groom with extraneous text wave animation at the bottom of the screen – here less is more; folks at this age are not enamored by cool technology. Prior to the procession, take your camera off the tripod and take lots of B roll footage of those in attendance from the front of the Church. This will make wonderful cutaway shots, loved by the Bride and Groom who are there to celebrate the special day (and will certainly want a copy of the video).

Nice job on camera panning as everyone processes in the Church – good tripod technique. However, the camera height is only about 3.5 feet off the ground during the initial procession footage – raise it up to 5-6 feet (at least the height of the talent’s head); as they process out after the ceremony I see you indeed got the camera up to the right height so I’m sure you’ll remember this next time.

Be careful to keep extraneous equipment out of the picture (the TV monitor during the procession)

Sound levels initially are all over the place – don’t rapidly tweak up-down the volume level. If you have to make changes (as an inspired minister’s voice), do it slooowly over time – don’t adjust it more than 3 dB every few seconds.
The lavalier mic has a serious problem with popping and sibilants, especially when he points it to the Bride and Groom (no or poor foam) I noticed the minister seemed to be wearing a Countryman E6, but it also was too close to his mouth. If you’re stuck with problematic audio using the house mixing panel, edit the audio in post production with a 80Hz high-pass filter.

Be careful to sync the voice to the minister’s lips – the footage is slightly out of sync

Initially, the cameraman has way too much camera movement and poor framing with minister. Pay careful attention to composition.

When the minister continues, “With the greatness of God…” the editor does a cutaway pan to the flower. As others suggest, you want lots of B roll footage to insert but I question your edit at this point. This is your first cut, and while the flower is beautiful, I don’t follow the Christian wedding connection to the flower. The flower is indeed beautiful, yet try matching the preacher’s words/theme/message with the B roll footage. At that point, maybe a cutaway to the Cross with the lovely picture would better support that message. Of course, if the Bride simply LOVES the flowers and thinks that represents God, then good for you – keep your customer happy!

When the talent is singing, be sure include several cutaways to the Bridge and Groom. The beginning of the video has nice B roll footage of the couple. One of the pieces was reused during the vows, but the edit seemed to abruptly jump into the other video. I suggest a better place for the initial video would be during Christian’s song.

During the cutting of the cake, begin showing the couple and then change the focus to the cake. Try to think out the composition before framing the picture – after the ceremony, the audience focus is on the new couple, not the cake.

Something went wrong with the lighting in the scene where the cake was cut. Perhaps you didn’t remember to reset the white balance in the hall with fluorescent lights. Keep an eye on your onboard settings and close your non-camera eye to avoid these problems (makes it much more obvious).

Be careful to avoid typos in your text – the wording begins Congradulations

Good luck on your second shoot - let us know if you want more feedback.

Warm Regards, Michael

[KyleProhaska]

Wow thanks alot folks, I almost forgot I posted this thread lol and here I find these additional responses. Its very cool that you guys give some real honest responses. I think my sencond wedding (shot the following week, on the same day of the week, in the same sanctuary) came out much better. Ill post it soon but I had to do ALOT of editing and adding in of shots that might not be so good but it was the only way to coverup my mistakes. The camera moved alot so I had to really chop it apart to even make it presentable. Once again lesson learned but the ending couple minutes of the video is gold. I got lots of family shots and stuff, people hugging, slowed down some set to a song of their choice, came out quite well. Ill post it up soon, and thanks for the comments folks, I really appreciate it. Stepping from short films to weddings is a big change, lol.

-Kyle

[Bogdan]

Kyle -

Thank you for posting your material and congrats on your XL2 again.

Images look fine to me, esp. considering existing light. I agree with others about changing camera position.
My 2 cents would be:
- recording audio from soundboard on separate recorder
- recording ambient sound in the camera with good stereo microphone
That woud give you:
- peace of mind in terms of recording complete sound material
- freedom to move around with your camera
- ability to mix dry sound from the mixer (soundboard) with wide stereo background in post
- much more possibilities in editing thanks to complete audio

I use M-Audio Microtrack 24/96, small digital audio recorder, good for more than 90 minutes of non-stop recording when phantom power is not necessary, but there are other units available. There is more info in Audio forum. I know my suggestions mean extra spendings, but it's really worth it.

Best!

[moonlitnite]

Kyle,

BTW, here's some post-wedding video (http://tulsaweddingvideos.com/video/FV1stDance.wmv) I came across that helps illustrate how to keep the camera moving. While they had several cameras running simultaneously, much of this can be done in post. Of course, while in the church your ability is limited with only one camera so the B roll before the procession is especially important.

But here's a secret tip when you have only one camera - take additional pictures with a digital still camera! That's right, you can edit them into your church wedding video to keep the camera moving, AND you can zoom and pan the still pictures! Here's an amazing best-in-class video documentary that was done entirely with still pictures (http://www.videomaker.com/content/show_video.php?movieurl=/content/video/contest-winners/2005/doc.flv). After I saw it, I really appreciated the opportunity of how still pix can enhance video footage for situations like weddings. Consider how stills can be used in J and K cuts and you're customers will love it. Check out Jade Productions (click Cinematography/Video Samples/Romance) (http://www.jadestudioproductions.com/?gclid=CNThgq_d_YgCFQxMGAod034wAQ) to see how to incorporate stills in your wedding pix.

Enjoy, Michael

[Evro]

Kyle,

BTW, here's some post-wedding video (http://tulsaweddingvideos.com/video/FV1stDance.wmv) I came across that helps illustrate how to keep the camera moving.


We're definitely big fans of the Picture This team in Tulsa, especially their moving camera techniques. We have most of their DVDs and although they are quite expensive (around $100USD+shipping) they have definitely given us the edge over other wedding videographers here in Sydney Australia.
Also for a really fresh approach google 'Boulevard Video Productions' and checkout Dave Robin's work.

Looking forward to viewing your second wedding...

Cheers,

[KyleProhaska]

Ill have the 2nd up soon, lol you guys are gonna love this one.....sarcasm :/

-Kyle

[moonlitnite]

Righto! "Where is my knife sharpener, honey?" LOL

Kyle, I'm sure you're growing leaps and bounds and we'll enjoy giving you constructive comments on all your improvements. And of course, we will offer the bitter pills to get even better... If you get a chance when you post, include a few topics on things you liked or found challenging and we'll respond.

Good luck, Michael

[KyleProhaska]

I'm mad because I posted the video this morning and it didn't seem to go through ;/ O well, here it is:

http://www.kyleprohaska.com/wedding2.mov

Basically I made the mistake of handholding the XL2, and I covered my ass as much as possible but since I did it for free and they loved the video (which is what matters even if I chewed my knuckles as they watched it seeing my SH**ty camera work they liked it even still so I was glad lol. This one also had more hugging, family visiting, etc. so they got to have a little more precious moments in there. One thing I think went well was that part, the ending after the wedding. The weddings itself was OK but with the camera bobbin in spots and stuff it turned out terrible IMO. My Tiffen Steadystick haden't arrived yet :( so I was forced to handhold unless it was to end up like the previous wedding with a fix position. Ah well another lesson learned, time to go to the weight room lol. Please be as harsh as possible because I KNOW you guys are gonna be pissing yourself watching this bad excuse for a video lol.

Uh...enjoy?

-Kyle

[moonlitnite]

Hi Kyle,

Thanks for submitting "Exhibit B" <wink> Okay, here we go:

1. I see you got your camera raised for the procession this time - good.
2. I hear a lot of extraneous low-frequency noise - if you can't fix your mic and recording, use something like a 80hz high-pass filter in post (whack out the thuds)
3. Camera is indeed waving around when the bride enters. When using handheld, you can improve your technique by tucking your elbows in tight on your ribs and pan your body (not your hands)
4. Before the officiant speaks, brace yourself on a wall, pew, or similar stationary object to avoid all the camera wandering.
5. Oh my, the white-balance really looks amiss (or it's late at night and my eyes are going). But towards the end when the B&G walk out in the hall the walls seem to be white again so I get the feeling if you did a white balance it was out in the hall instead of the actual Church where you were filming.
6. Work on your framing/composition - when B&G join, keep them all in the pix and don't be in a hurry to zoom (the most common novice error)
7. When the B&G join hands, your disolve has some extraneous artifacts.
8. When the officiant speak, you did a good job on the audio - never lose sight of the imporance of audio. I give you a big plus on this one.
9. Oops, 15 seconds later the officiants voice is 10 dB hotter than the prior cut. You really need to get a handle on this or fix it in post.
10. You're beginning to get the idea of how B roll works. In time, you'll improve your editing techniques and have a better eye on how to take the "money shots". I see you are also considering perspectives, angles, and dimensions. Keep looking at how the "big boys" seamlessly weave inserts into their artistry. For instance, try not to take a bunch of B roll shots and put them all in one place. You want to be changing the scene on regular intervals (sometimes 1-2 seconds, other times 5-10 seconds). After the song when the B&G are facing, don't stick to one scene for minutes - use some inserts here. Another thing on B roll - before the service begins, go up to the front of the Church and get some footage of the guests, planning to insert some of them in during the long officiant dialogs.
11. Oh my, you're right about the camera bobbing. Are you sure this wasn't aboard a vessel on the high seas? <wink> Seriously though, even without a steady stick or tripod, *practice* on your technique before the wedding. Also, when the Church has few in attendance, consider filming halfway up so you won't have to zoom in at 20X, which really amplifies all the wandering/bobbing. And if you find you're improperly positioned, simply move yourself and the camera *anywhere* while keeping it rolling. Find a steady spot at shoot from a solid anchor, editing in some B roll when your camera is on the move.
12. On that note, you are going to learn that during the vows, you are going to move yourself up to the front of the Church (assuming the cool officiant allow it) at an angle behind the groom so you can get a nice angle close up on the Bride - the most important shot since the Bride's usually show more facial emotion and expressions (remember, we are telling a story so be sure to capture it).
13. Nice effort to use a B roll cut of the ring going on the groom. But OUCH, that loud thump was on the verge of pain - that's an even worse no-no than the large change of levels, earlier. You really need to learn the use of audio editing here - you'll see the spike from a mile away and need to remove it.
14. After she slipped on his ring and you pull away to the officiant, it's still very clear that his lips are not matching the words he's speaking.
15. Nice job on the exit music - I liked it and it worked well with the cinema.
16. Two thumbs up for the baby pix. Whever possible, get pix of the youngsters - an easy money shot (we must remember, for many, marriage is a symbolism of youth, innocence, fertility, etc - always consider the message and look for metahors, symbols, icons)
17. Again at the end, you've gone wild with the zoom but don't feel too bad - all rookies fall into that trap. It's almost as though when we start out, we feel our feet are strapped down in leg-irons.

Pulling back to 30,000 feet, there are dozens of things we could add about missed opportunities, cinema, editing, etc. but for now it's best to stick to videography 101 and get the basics down pat. Weddings are one in a lifetime key events in soulmates lives and we should take our job very seriously. Some rainy day, the couple will look back on these treasures, or after they are gone their grandchildren will look fondly of their heritage. So we really want to work hard to do our best. I recommend you do several dry runs at the Church, even without anyone there - you can put something on the podium and pretend it's the bride. Try different angles, move around, work on your techniques (especially that steady hand), get your editing down pat. And bring along a radio or MP3 player with speaker and get a handle on the audio. If worse comes to worse, you could get rid of 90 percent of the video, retape some stills, and make a good "film" with great audio.

Anyway, don't be discouraged. You are realizing being an artist requires hard work, patience, and a thick skin for critical feedback which you should be applauded for taking so well. Since you're such a good sport, I'd be happy to share with you a few links of best-in-class wedding videography. I've got about 20 sites bookmarked, so if you're in the mood for a game, you pick a few numbers between 1 and 20 and I'll give you the URL links associated with those numbers. But remember, this is the ice-cream so continue to work hard on the basics.

Warm Regards,

Michael

[Captain Pierce]

I don't know if there's a general rule on this but I try not to let the same image stay on screen for more than 4 seconds (unless there's something notable going on - but even then you change between CU/MS/WS.)


You want to be changing the scene on regular intervals (sometimes 1-2 seconds, other times 5-10 seconds).

If I might play "devil's advocate" here: Guys, this is a wedding video, not MTV. :Drogar-Evil(DBG): Do you really need to cut that much? (And I'm not saying that you don't, necessarily, it just seems way too much to me, although admittedly, I've never shot a wedding professionally--heck, I've only even gotten paid once :) ).

[Evro]

>>If I might play "devil's advocate" here: Guys, this is a wedding video, not MTV.


Hi Capt, I understand where you're coming from - this is a very hot topic between corporate & event videographers here in Sydney, where the corporate guys have little respect for the work event guys (& gals) do. I'll agree that there are plenty of event guys out there doing very bad work and charging good money for it giving the whole event industry a bad name.

Even though wedding videographers work under the most hectic & unpredictable conditions, at the end of the day, married couples should expect a quality production regardles. This means following as best as possible the rules of framing, composition, continuity, lighting etc...

Wedding video SHOULD have the same high budget look of an MTV/Movie/Fashion clip, it's the only way we'll gain any respect for our industry.

Sorry for the rant ;)


Kyle, doing your first few weddings for free is good.
It's the only way you'll iron out your mistakes - that's how we got started in 1996 - lots of freebies, lots of mistakes and we're still learning.

'moonlitnite' is giving you excellent feedback so there's no point in repetition from me, however, I will make two suggestions...

1) Read the following books:
"In The Blink of an Eye" by Walter Murch
"The 5 C's of Cinematography" by Joseph Mascelli
"Cinematography - Theory & Practice" by Blain Brown

2) Buy or rent the following movies and study the cinematography in them like there's no tomorrow:
"Lady From Shanghai" (Orson Welles)
"Appocalypse Now" (Francis Copola)
"The Black Stallion" (Francis Copola)
"The Third Man" (Orson Welles)
"Rope" (Hitchcock)
"The Conformist" (Kubrick)
"Lady In The Lake"

I'd love to see your work again once you've started to digest the above.

Cheers,

[moonlitnite]

Hi Captain Pierce,

Well, regardless whether the videographer is using a short or long form approach, these days it's a rare bird that keeps the camera froze for minutes. I certainly don't think such a film would win a WEVA award for creative excellence, and if the client could see two film approaches side-to-side, I suspect the vote would be almost unanimous.

As you suggest, like everything else, all camera work should have a purpose and not blindly follow a formula. Yet I can assure you the top wedding videographer in Los Angeles has his second cameraman *constantly* on the move getting artistic perspectives to use in the edited product. And for many years, the rest of the industry keeps the camera shots moving. So like it or not, the stationary cameraman relying exclusively on pans and zooms is a telltale way to quickly detect their proficiency (I apologize if that sounded wrong). Of course, on the other hand, an editor that relies on 1 second "M-TV" cuts does not make him/her a proficient shooter.

At any rate, if you or others have web links that can enlighten us, we're all open to learn successful new techniques. And Beziermask, your feedback and suggestions were excellent (as always).

Regards, Michael

[Captain Pierce]

Even though wedding videographers work under the most hectic & unpredictable conditions, at the end of the day, married couples should expect a quality production regardles. This means following as best as possible the rules of framing, composition, continuity, lighting etc...

Wedding video SHOULD have the same high budget look of an MTV/Movie/Fashion clip, it's the only way we'll gain any respect for our industry.

Sorry for the rant ;)


Oh, I agree with you totally on all that. :) I was just commenting on the frequency of cuts that you and moonlitnite were advocating. And I certainly wasn't trying to knock wedding videography as a profession--I know the pain of having an AG-456 glued to your shoulder for 48 hours straight. :D Sorry if it came across that way. You've both been giving good advice in this thread, and I certainly plan to incorporate some of it the next time I do one of my freebies for a friend or co-worker.

[KyleProhaska]

Thanks for the comments/reply's folks. Ive seen most of those films and I don't mean to sound snotty but I do know quite a bit about framing, cinematography, etc. My knowledge lay's in the filmmaking aspect when I have my tripod and I can control my environment but when I get into that wedding thing and im all nervous since I can't stop and rewind the situation I get all flustered and loose all sense of what im doing, even down to holding the damn camera straight and keeping things framed properly. Its aggrevating but o well. I'm shooting my first decent size short this month or beginning of next so well see how it goes. I'm redesigning my site at: kyleprohaska.com if you care to take a look. Not much info on the film and the site is missing the photos and contact page but there is at least some stuff up. All the stuff is old since I haven't done much lately. Once again thanks for the comments, its much appreciated.

-Kyle