So I just got my XL2.... [Archive] - DVXuser.com -- The online community for filmmaking

Morox

11-06-2006, 10:08 PM

So far, everything I shoot looks like crap. Is the XL2's image always so soft looking? Any presets you'd like to share so I can try them out? I KNOW it's me that is making the footage look worse than home movies. But like I said, I just got the camera and I am testing out different settings and I was wondering if you can spare a few presets so I can try them out. Anything at this point will look better than what I have so far...

StMad

11-06-2006, 10:53 PM

I was always happy with my footage with +3 or 4 colour gain and black set to press and/or master ped -2 or 3. This will increase your contrast and make for punchier colours. When you say "soft" what exactly do you mean? What sort of shots look soft? Backgrounds on wide shots will always look soft (in sd), but otherwise the xl2 is known for its sharp lens.

The most fun I had with the cam was zooming in 10 - 15 times and playing with shallow depth of field...

eg

http://www.stickypod.com/videos/showphoto.php/photo/2120/size/big/cat/500/ppuser/991

http://www.stickypod.com/videos/showphoto.php/photo/2108/cat/500/size/big/ppuser/991

Andrew Brinkhaus

11-06-2006, 11:19 PM

Check out

www.dvinfo.net/conf/

They have tons of great XL2 presets in the XL2 forum, and a lot of knowledgeble users who can help you solve your problem if it is indeed not just your lack of proper focus. Good luck!

Morox

11-07-2006, 01:05 PM

When I mean soft, I mean the opposite of sharp. All of the footage that I shoot looks like this.

As for Dvinfo, I made an account on there and it will not let me log in anymore.

StMad

11-08-2006, 12:45 AM

Show us a couple of grabs, otherwise its guesswork.

mikkowilson

11-08-2006, 03:14 AM

As for Dvinfo, I made an account on there and it will not let me log in anymore.

DVinfo require you use your Real name for your account. Make sure you are signed up with a Real name.

- Mikko

Morox

11-08-2006, 11:54 AM

I think I figured out the problem. I was using a craptastic program (Windows Movie Maker) to import my video from the camera. It seems as if the program completely butchers the video. I hooked up my camera to the t.v and it looked much, much better.

KyleProhaska

11-10-2006, 05:18 PM

OMG...dont use WMM lol. The next book on Video Software or w/e should have a chapter on reasons not to use WMM. Its absolutely terrible, glad you found that was your problem.

-Kyle

Morox

11-10-2006, 05:57 PM

Yeah, I was really worried for a second. Right now, I am using Adobe Premiere and it's a lot better than WMM. But anyhow, is there any other recommended programs out there?

Andrew Brinkhaus

11-16-2006, 08:32 PM

I just hate when people bash the camera for something that is very much their operating errors. Ahhh!

Morox

11-17-2006, 12:56 AM

So far, I am quite pleased with the XL2. My only gripe is that I can not seem to make anything have that cinema look. I know the DVX is very capable of this, but I can't seem to get the same feeling with the XL2. Any pointers? I have messed around with the settings and checked out a few custom presets but it always turns out looking quite plain.

Evro

11-18-2006, 05:28 AM

Morox

11-18-2006, 07:37 AM

I've got both the DVX & XL2 and let me tell you right now; you cannot match the DVX's film look with the XL2.
The XL2 seems to add some kind of motion blur when shooting in progressive mode which the DVX does not. This makes the progressive cadence still look somewhat videoey.

I feared this. I wanted this camera specifically for making independant films without getting a home-movie look and footage is looking nothing but that.

jaegersing

11-18-2006, 07:32 PM

I've got both the DVX & XL2 and let me tell you right now; you cannot match the DVX's film look with the XL2.
The XL2 seems to add some kind of motion blur when shooting in progressive mode which the DVX does not. This makes the progressive cadence still look somewhat videoey.

Hi Beziermask. I'm guessing you are in PAL-land, because the default shutter speed in 25p mode on the XL2 is 1/25s for some strange reason. This is why you will see motion blur (it is 1/48s at 24p on the NTSC models). Try changing the shutter speed to 1/50s and see if you like it better.

Evro

11-19-2006, 06:11 AM

Yes I thought it was a bit strange why the default shutter is 1/25, yet NTSC models were double the frame rate. Ultimately I need to match the cadence of my DVX because I use both cams on the same shoots. I'll try 1/50 on the time line to see if it's any better.

Thanks for the tip jaegersing.

Morox

11-19-2006, 06:02 PM

Any tips on how to get a "cinema" look with the XL2?

jaegersing

11-19-2006, 06:44 PM

Any tips on how to get a "cinema" look with the XL2?

Hi Morox. this is a big subject, and it's not just about the camera. Try this as a starting point.

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=77028

Evro

11-20-2006, 03:14 PM

Definitely a good read - especially the BBC R&D documents.

Excellent find jaegersing!!

Morox

11-21-2006, 01:55 AM

Ah, thank you.

Just a quick question here. Every time that I have filmed something, I immediately hook it up to my t.v and check the footage out and so far, I have been pleased. I am shooting something until I find that it's worthy enough to transfer onto my computer and edit it. My question is this: If I import my videos from my camera into a program (let's say Adobe Premiere), it won't butcher any of the video, will it? I mean, will the footage look as good as when I immediately hook my XL2 up to my t.v comapred to when I edit it in a program and burn it to dvd? Or will it sacrifice any quality putting the footage on my computer?

jaegersing

11-21-2006, 05:04 AM

Hi Morox. You don't mention how you are connecting everything together, but let's assume you are using firewire for the video capture into your PC. (If you're not, you should be.)

Since the XL2 records digital data onto miniDV tape, there is no degradation in quality at the video capture stage. The digital data is copied to your hard drive without loss.

Premiere allows you to totally butcher the video if that's what you want, but it also allows you to maintain very high quality. If you edit mainly by making cuts and don't have lots of effects, then the output should be very close to the input in terms of image quality.

BUT, if your final output is DVD, you have to go through an MPEG2 compression stage that can really screw up the quality if your compression settings are not correct. As a rough guide, if your DVD is one hour or less, you can set the encoding to 7Mbps CBR (constant bit rate) and you should get very good results. If you need a longer duration, things start getting more difficult and you will need a good encoder that works well at lower bit rates and also converts your audio to Dolby AC3 (to allow more space for video). I suggest you go one step at a time and try it out with a shorter DVD first.

Morox

11-22-2006, 04:49 PM

jaegersing

11-22-2006, 05:15 PM

Is it just me or are the in-camera settings on th XL2 almost useless? Well, not useless, but the changes being made are so minor that you can't really see a big change. I was playing around with a lot of them and I could hardly see any differences.

Hi Morox. No they're not at all useless. Probably you are judging them on how they look in the EVF, and it's not really good enough to show you the differences. When I got my XL2 (2 years ago) I went through all the settings with the cam hooked up to an external TV monitor. This way, you can see mostly what the varoius settings do.

By the way, while you have your cam connected to the TV, you should adjust the image on the EVF (brightness and contrast) to make it as close as possible to what you see on the TV. I remember that when I initially used the EVF to judge the exposure, everything I shot ended up a bit dull when I got it home. After tweaking the EVF settings, I have more confidence that what I see when I shoot is not going to change much.

Of course, there are other methods for getting the "correct" exposure, but it's good if the EVF is as WYSIWYG as possible.

Morox

11-22-2006, 06:22 PM

Are you saying that I should hook the camera up to the t.v and change the in-camera settings and compare them by looking off of my t.v at the same time? If so, that's a good idea.

Morox

11-22-2006, 07:46 PM

How you do a racking focus procedure? I don't know how it works and I feel dumb on asking how to do it.

jaegersing

11-22-2006, 10:04 PM

Are you saying that I should hook the camera up to the t.v and change the in-camera settings and compare them by looking off of my t.v at the same time? If so, that's a good idea.

Yes, exactly. The TV lets you see what is changing when you make the adjustments, so it helps you get an understanding of, or at least a feel for what is happening.

jaegersing

11-22-2006, 11:56 PM

How you do a racking focus procedure? I don't know how it works and I feel dumb on asking how to do it.

Hi Morox. The procedure below is adapted from page 42 of the manual. It uses the Focus Preset function on the lens.

1. Set the focus selector to M (manual focus mode).

2. Set the Position Preset switch to Focus.

3. Adjust the focus ring so that the "second focus point" is in focus (second focus point is what you want to focus on after the rack focus).

4. Move the Position Preset On/Set switch to Set.

5. Adjust the focus ring so that the "first focus point" is in focus (first focus point is the starting point for the rack focus).

6. To make the rack focus, move the Position Preset On/Set switch to On. The focus will adjust to the second focus point at a speed dependent on the Focus Preset Speed setting.

If you want to change the Focus Preset Speed setting, it is in the menu, under:

Menu/Camera Setup/F Speed PSet

One drawback of the XL2 lens is that a single motor is shared by the focus and zoom functions, so the Position Preset is for zoom OR focus but not both. The Sony Z1 allows you to preset zoom AND focus points so that you can change both together. Would be nice if the XL2 could do this too, but I suppose it would make it even more front heavy if it had 2 motors.

Morox

11-23-2006, 01:05 AM

Ah, thank you very much.

A quick question here. After filming whatever I shoot, how much footage editing is possible with software? I am having a difficult time trying to mimic a "film" look with the XL2 and I was wondering if there are any after effects in programs that will help improve the "film" look? Does the Vegas editing software have any tools for this?

-Thanks

jaegersing

11-23-2006, 04:37 AM

Vegas will let you do just about anything. Do you have a particular editing need in miond?

Regarding film look, Vegas comes with a Magic Bullet film look plug-in that has some good effects but it takes forever to render. There are cheaper film look alternatives available for Vegas (look at the VASST site for more info) and also Vegas itself allows you to adjust the image in that direction if you have the time to learn how to do it.

Another option (which is what I did) is to "crossgrade" the Magic Bullet that is bundled with Vegas and get the Magic Bullet Editors Suite from Red Giant. Provided you have a suitable graphics card (list is on the Red Giant website), the MB plugin will preview AND RENDER in realtime. If you want to use film look often, or even if you just like to play around with the video image to set the mood, this is a great solution.

Morox

11-23-2006, 12:00 PM

I bought the XL2 intending to do short films, so I wanted some software that will help me adjust the footage to my liking. From the way you made it sound, Vegas seems to be exactly what I need. Thanks.

jaegersing

11-23-2006, 05:12 PM

I suggest you download the demo version of Vegas and try it out to see if you like it. I think it will work for 30 days before expiring. The MB plugin is probably not included in the demo, but you will get a chance to try out some of Vegas's many features.

Canopus Edius also has a demo version available. It doesn't have as many features as Vegas, and the user interface is very different, but the realtime performance and rendering speeds are impressive compared to Vegas.

It's worth looking at Adobe Premiere Pro and Avid Liquid as well, as these are also popular NLEs. Since you will be spending many many hours with your choice of editor, you might as well do the research now, and make sure that they will be happy hours!

Morox

11-27-2006, 08:12 PM

How reliable is the "auto-focus?" I ask this because I really dislike the viewfinder. I find it hard to see what's in focus and what isn't. I want to start a short film soon but I am worried that whatever I shoot may not be focused properly.

jaegersing

11-27-2006, 08:20 PM

Sounds like you need to get out and practice with your XL2! The autofocus can work well if there is enough light, but can still get confused if the camera or subject is moving. In low light the autofocus responds more slowly and sometimes does not lock.

It can be difficult to see the focus through the viewfinder. Turning up the contrast can help a bit, but you could also try an external LCD monitor panel.