FCP timeline 23.98 w/ 29.97?

[Craig Hoffmann]

just started editing with the 23.98 timeline. is it possible to use both 23.98 and 29.97 clips on the same timeline? will i simply have to render one or the other? reason being, wanting to use film telecined to tape and i don't have hd tape player for input.

thanks

[ian lucero]

I'm not understanding your question. Possibly because I don't deal with HD (yet). But what I don't understand is, is the footage that you want to edit (on the 23.98) timeline shot at 29.97? or is it that the telecine process somehow made your 24fps film into 29.97 and you want to edit on a 24p timeline? or do you have 2 types of footage (23.98 and 29.97) and want to to edit ONLY on a 23.98 timeline? OR you have footage captured already and can't recapture other footage because you don't the appropriate deck to import that HD footage? Was the telecine footage put onto a HD tape? or put onto a harddrive?

From my understanding, 29.97 footage doesn't play well on a 23.98 timeline. Only the other way around. You'll see if you play 29.97 footage on the 23.98 timeline it will drop frames. Also if you play 23.98 footage on a 29.97 timeline without first using Cinema Tools to conform the footage, you'll get crappy looking images. I may be missing something though.

[BenB]

Yes, you can mix them just fine, not big deal. As for rendering, that is totally up to how much horse power you have (Mac model, RAM, graphics cards, etc).

You do want to decide what your output will be, 24 or 30fps? Which ever, make your Sequence that editing time code base. Drop your other stuff in to mix.

Now it is stratigically better to drop the faster fps clip into the slower fps Seqeunce, because then FCP only has to drop original frames to conform. If you drop the slower fps clip into a faster fps Seqeucne, FCP has to make up what I call Fake Frames that don't actually exist in the oringinal footage, to confrom to the faster fps rate. Thus, you may or may not see some image quality issues.

It's also going to depend on the clips you're using. Lots of motion will be more problematic than talking head shots. People being still just talking won't give you any problems at all droping 24fps into a 30fps Seqeucne. Fast action shots will give you headaches with the image quality. But fast action shots done in 3fps droped into a 24fps sequence won't give you any problems at all.

[vernallis]

wow!
nice to see this dialogue going on.
i've been pulling my hair over these issues
for a few days, put up a few posts,
but have not yet received any input yet .

hey ian. nice to see you in cyberland.

i just finished editing a 40 min dance piece
that had both 24pA and 29.97 footage
and in the end chose to compromise the 29.97 stuff
(luckily it was the wide angle and the 24pA was close)
by putting it in a 23.98 timeline.

the 29.97 looks a bit munched when the dancers are moving fast
but
i'd rather have the closeups really clear and the wide a bit off.


i found that even when removing the pulldown in cinematools
that the 24pA had this look like it was being seen through a window screen
when played back on a 29.97 time line.

another thought i have
would be to export the whole edited 23.98 timeline to tape,
then reimport it on a 29.97 time line
and just add the 29.97 footage over it to get that at full res...
but if i then export @ 29.97 will the original 24pA footage look
like it does when i exported it on the 23.98 time line?

eh ghads.....

my major concern now is that i have a large documentary that has
about 15 hours shot years ago on a canon gl1 in "frame mode"
(29.97 plus a bunch of black flickers to fake 24p)
and about 15 hours on a dvx in 24pA.

am i screwed?

does any one have any input on how to make these two
work best in the same time line?

that would put my whittled mind at ease a bit.
thanks.

[ian lucero]

Hey hey Ishan! :beer: Any luck on the timeline stuff yet?

So this subject is trickier than we thought.

[ian lucero]

Hey Ishan and anyone else reading this thread, I just found this on the Nattress.com site.

--
On the DVX100 I shot in 24p Advance for some shots, but really I wanted to shoot in 24p Normal.

24pAdvance uses the 2:3:3:2 pulldown pattern, which, if not removed, can look jerky. That is why
you cannot just leave the pulldown intact and use it direct in a normal NTSC 29.97fps timeline.

You have two options:

Capture the 24pAdvance footage as normal NTSC, apply the G Advanced Pulldown (http://nattress.com/Products/standardsconversion/GAdvPulldown.htm)
Conversion plugin from Standards Converter (http://nattress.com/Products/standardsconversion/standardsconversion.htm), or,

Capture the 24pAdvanced footage with FCP set to remove advanced pulldown, place on
a 23.98fps timeline, set FCP to add 3:2 pulldown on playout and play out to tape.
Now recapture as normal NTSC.
--

Ishan, the last section I think is what you were thinking of doing? Hope it worked or that this suggestion helps. :beer:

[vernallis]

you're amazing ian!
thank you 24 times over!
i can believe i hadn't heard about these plug ins before!
i'll give 'em a try
and let you know how it works.

i'll be passing through bridgetown next weekend
maybe see you then:thumbup: !