Portable solution?

[Norbert]

Let's say I decide not to wait for the next generation cameras that records to SD cards and instead I go for the A1. Let's say I want to record something else than HDV on the field when I shoot wildlife. That would require some kind of portable solution that converts the component signal from the A1 to digital and records it with a better codec, say DVCPro50 HD or something, or maybe even variable codecs. Is it realistic to think that some kind of portable storage device can do this in the not too far future?

The reason I ask is because I don't think I will ever shoot much stationary and I don't want to be stuck with HDV when it vanishes. Heck, no one seems to want HDV even nowadays.

[rawfa]

We have to face the facts. No camera, no matter how good, is going to stay on top forever. It's a pain in the ass to keep up with technology when it seems to change everyday, but that's the name of the dance.

BTW, Norbert, I can see you bought your DVX100 almos 9 month ago! Are you trading it already? I bought my FX1 on november last year and I already sold it for the A1 too. To be honest I feel kind of bad I jumped the HDV wagon without ever having owned a dvx. I love the darn camera, but the market dictated the rules and most of the companies and clients I work with demand HD.

[meta4]

I would say you could afford this for less than the difference of the A1-G1 upgrade.
Aja Component to HD-SDI converter (http://www.aja.com/html/products_converters_HD10AVA.html)

After that, you'll have to rely on cineform to come out with a portable HD-SDI solution (maybe they will, maybe they won't).

But the fact is that the Canon A1 is an HDV camcorder. If you don't like HDV, I probably wouldn't suggest the Canon A1.

But then again, if you *decide* not to wait for HDV to pass, what other choices do you have? (*cough* HVX)

[Norbert]

rawfa: Yes I have had my dvx for only 9 months. Luckily I have no clients. I do this just for fun, so the only thing that is pushing me towards higher resolution is my own cravings. I will sell my dvx now but I will wait until next spring before I buy a new camera.
The dvx is a wonderfull piece of camera and I am proud to have owned it because I wanted it for so long before I finally got it. However I have already figured out that it probably isn't the best camera for me. My priorities have changed since I got it. I thought I was going to make a lot of narrative stuff and at the time the dvx was the king for shooting narrative movies in it's price range with it's progressive chips and cine gamma. But I have ended up documenting wild life and nature instead. We recently got a widescreen tv at home and I never shoot anything for 4:3 really. I run everything through time consuming uprezzing to 16:9 every time. And I am sure there are more noise free cameras out there. The A1 and the XL-H1 seems to handle that pretty well in comparision with the dvx. The noise really bothers me. And of course, I want more detailed images.

meta4: I will probably not make anything for television ever but it would be good to know that I could. Personally I don't have a problem with HDV, I think it can be beautiful, but the tv-networks seem to have a problem with it's technical specs. At least the option was there with the dvx100 since there is no difference between miniDV and miniDV. I recon many programs on tv were/are shot on the dvx100.
I guess I can look at it like this, if I want something better than HDV I will probably want something better than AVC-HD as well. And there is no camera out there that records even DVCPro HD within my budget. There is only one, the HVX of course, but that is just way too expensive for me. And then the P2 cards... *shudders*

So what do you think, should I jump the HDV wagon and wait for a more professional format to become cheaper to shoot, store and edit? Would HDV still be somewhat supported even if AVC-HD becomes the new standard while I wait? I don't have anything against AVC-HD, but I don't know if I want to wait for Panasonic or Sony to make a prosumer AVC-HD camera.

[db20]

Norbert:

If i were you i would go with HDV (considering your price range). First, im thinking your looking for a format like AVC-Intra which will won't be cheap or practical for the next few years. I can't see HDV support (final cut, sony veags, pp2.0, Avid, canopus - support HDV) going away anytime soon (4+ years). Even today there are several knew cameras using HDV scheduled for release (06-07) and there has been alot of money invested by Canon, Sony, JVC to just let the format die anytime soon. If you don't like the HDV format my best advice would be to wait 3 years until better formats (AVC-Intra) are practical and within reasonable price range. Even if a new HD format comes out any time soon it will take time for it to have software support and to come down in price range. As well, ACV-HD may seem like a slight upgrade over HDV but is it that much better to justify waiting a year or two for a prosumer camcorder and software support?

just my two cents

[Norbert]

Good point. I feel pretty confident now that HDV will serve me well until this HD craze has finally settled down on ONE standard format like what DV was for SD in all fields (camera, hardware and software). I just can't live without a camera for those few years. :)

[Emanuel]

Let's say I decide not to wait for the next generation cameras that records to SD cards and instead I go for the A1. Let's say I want to record something else than HDV on the field when I shoot wildlife. That would require some kind of portable solution that converts the component signal from the A1 to digital and records it with a better codec, say DVCPro50 HD or something, or maybe even variable codecs. Is it realistic to think that some kind of portable storage device can do this in the not too far future?

The reason I ask is because I don't think I will ever shoot much stationary and I don't want to be stuck with HDV when it vanishes. Heck, no one seems to want HDV even nowadays.
I leave there (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=741928&postcount=10) an useful question to such use, I hope.

So, I add here my post:

(...) Aside the timecode stuff for external audio syncro and considering there is an AJA analog -> HD-SDI converter with audio embedded (isn't it?), will there be any substantial difference* comparing both solutions? Especially in terms of the video signal quality? (A1 analog vs. G1 HD-SDI ports)

* If for a short distance like 1/2 meters away from the camera? (I'm sorry american boys for our metric system standard )

[rawfa]

Elton posted some uncompressed footage he captured using the H1's sdi and he stated that the VISUAL difference between uncompressed 4:2:2 and HDV is barely noticeable. This is very very interesting, since there seems to be a lot of hype around the color sampling capacity of uncompressed footage. It kind of puts things into perspective and lets people know WHO REALLY needs it. I don't do any keying at all, nor do I do green screen...Of course, the quality is superior but the difference is not extreme by any chance...on the contrary, it's more than likely that the general public won't notice a darn.

[Emanuel]

I know the Barlow tests, very helpful. But HDV is what it is. And we can live with it if we can or wish. But to the future or simply to those don't want it or have the Discovery HD syndrome (15% - 25% of HDV footage broadcast acceptance per single HD product), will it be possible to find alternate/alternative options?

[rawfa]

In about 4 or 5 years I'm sure all will be done tapeless (maybe even before that), but
HDV will still be with us for sometime (even miniDV will still be with us for sometime). I pondered waiting for a tapeless HD option to hit the market (HVX is out of my price range for what I do) but I simply don't see the urgency for it NOW. I'm puting my money on the canon a1 knowing I'll sell it someday when full res tapeless HD is the standard. For now I'm just one happy camper with the available offers on the market.

[Emanuel]

Parabéns! I hope you get well. I'm not anti-HDV as far I'm not anti-nada. But the Norbert's point (as well, mine) is his (as well, mine) concern in order to get fair, suitable and reachable alternatives.

In my case, for instance, I will go with HDV (as well) if there will be a different portable solution in any way other than as less than 50Mbps.

[Norbert]

rawfa: Wouldn't it be difficult to sell the A1 when tapeless full rez recording is the standard? Especially if all it can do on the field is HDV. If there will be a portable solution for recording full rez of something else with the A1 I think you can easily sell it but you could also keep it.

But you guys get my point alright. HDV is not a bad thing, I just fear it will die and all support for it will go away when there is a new real standard for HD in the future.

[Emanuel]

I just fear it will die and all support for it will go away when there is a new real standard for HD in the future.Here is a point!

[rawfa]

rawfa: Wouldn't it be difficult to sell the A1 when tapeless full rez recording is the standard? Especially if all it can do on the field is HDV. If there will be a portable solution for recording full rez of something else with the A1 I think you can easily sell it but you could also keep it.

But you guys get my point alright. HDV is not a bad thing, I just fear it will die and all support for it will go away when there is a new real standard for HD in the future.

HDV is here and people are still buying SD. You have to know when it's time to sell. You gotta keep you eyes and your ears open to see where is the market going to know your chances of selling. Fors instance, I just knew I had to sell my FX1 before these new cameras came in, otherwise I would have a really hard time getting a decent price. I ended up getting a very good price. But now I need a new gun and the A1 seems like the right move. If anybody knows anything I don't know, now is the time to tell me...say, a tapeless 24p camera from panasonic coming out next week? :)

[Norbert]

say, a tapeless 24p camera from panasonic coming out next week? :)I trust that you will let people know if anyone answers yes. That is exactly what I think I will have to give up waiting for. If Panasonic announces a camera like that before the A1 and G1 have been released I think they would sell some serious amounts. They still have a few weeks. :)

[rawfa]

If panasonic anounces something like that I promisse I'll call Sweden to let you know! :D

[Norbert]

Good to know. ;)

[ecking]

But now I need a new gun and the A1 seems like the right move.

You're buying a gun AND the a1? Lucky guy. :)

[rawfa]

Hehehe.

P.S - Gob is the man ;-)