Mixed emotions about Horrorfest

[Rubix³]

I agree with a post I read earlier preferring the judging being done by a dedicated panel. To me, it was obvious that the majority of voters in this competition let their opinion of the director or film as a whole impact their individual scores.

For instance, I saw a few that I thought were great, but I hated the (musical) scores. So no matter how good the actual movie was, I voted accordingly giving no quarter to the score. It might be 9s in all other departments and a 1 on the score.

For this competition, I think people generalized their votes for the movies under the 5th place mark. In fact, I don't think, I know they did - I read posts of those that admitted it. They'd watch one, settle on an overall 3.5 score, and just "fill-right" across the cells (not literally, but you get the point). Or they'd lower other scores to make up for their opinion on one scored section. Yes I'm a firm believer in a dedicated enjoyability section, but this spreadsheet was broken into specific parts meant for us to follow.

When it comes to the comments about support & "love" mentioned in other posts, I saw a bit of it. I tuned in to the individual film discussions late, so re-reading some of the posts I do see a bit of "super niceness" and flat-out ass kissing by some (I won't name names). Sounds silly on an internet forum but we all know that it does happen.

I really think JDS deserved to win. So in the midst of my complaints, I still feel the best person won. This factor keeps me going on this board.

When it comes to the bottom listers:
I freely admit that I was pissed for a good 5 minutes when I saw where my movie ranked, but I was never surprised. I didn't think that I'd win... it's the first camera I've ever owned, and the first time I've ever been both acting & the director. I say this once and only once, this doesn't entitle me to any more credit than the actual product deserves. I also had an idea how everyone would vote. And unfortunately they did vote this way.

This isn't an attempt to bitterly defend my movie, only taking one point from my movie as an example: even if you hated the story, hated the flaws in the vfx (which probably sunk me the most), and hated other things, there's no reason for my sound to rank in the same range as everything else you hated. The sound section isn't a section easily argued, it's pretty matter-of-factual, and I know I did better than the 4-5ish I received, parallel and equal to all my other ratings. And sound rating comparatively in this competition? I can't say "you be the judge" and keep a straight face.

The nice thing about part of the negatives I mentioned above, is that they can be compared directly to the real world. There's tons of self promotion, ass kissing, and good movies left on the side of the road. I think this fest brought out a lot in people. At the end of the day it's harmless, but I certainly do feel like I know you all a bit better. For better or worse.

I had to be honest with you - this was on my mind because we all competed together, and in a way, went to war together. Odds are half of you hate me now. Remember, these are just the words of one user, and a user not very well known on this board at that.

Chew on it or spit it out. You're free. - Anthony Burgess

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

I think the cry for an "entertainment" category or "X Factor" category has been trumpeted many times post fest. Hopefully that will be added and should end the "I loved the film but scored it low" phenomenon or marking a film generally across all the categories to get it where you wanted.

What I tried to do was look at the score and if it didn't reflect how I felt about the film I tried to think a little harder about why I liked it and divvy that up amongst the categories. So if it was weak in script or acting but just looked so cool I didn't care I would up the cinematography score. If it looked like poo but still got me then I would think about scoring and sound design and acting and script and see if they deserved a point bump up in one or more of those areas based on how well they were working on me. Same goes for a film that scored higher than I liked. Well what was lacking that I was maybe to generous about in my first vote ... drop a point here, there, etc. So that's how I tried to work within the system to neither arbitrarily mark a general quality vote across the board, nor live with scores that I felt didn't reflect the impact of the film.

But I can't imagine (but DON'T quote me on this) that there won't be an entertainment or "X" factor category next go around, preferably with a Director category as well, and that should alleviate some of the issues you raised.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Jack

[Rubix³]

After I was done with my ratings, I got a group of 7 people together, and we watched the majority of the movies. These 7 knew nothing about the DVX and really anything about cinematography & the technical aspects of filmmaking. Just average, mainstream viewers. I printed them all up a list and had them rate the ones they liked the best, period. Interesting results that were so black&white different from ours.

[HorseFilms]

After I was done with my ratings, I got a group of 7 people together, and we watched the majority of the movies. These 7 knew nothing about the DVX and really anything about cinematography & the technical aspects of filmmaking. Just average, mainstream viewers. I printed them all up a list and had them rate the ones they liked the best, period. Interesting results that were so black&white different from ours.

I'd be curious to see those results. It's nice to know what nonfilmmakers think.

[Larry Rutledge]

I think part of the problem some people have when the fest scores are announced is that we, being more film tech savvy, tend to view/rate the films much more differently than the average film viewer would.

We aren't just watching a film for the purpose of escapism, rather are minds have been trained to look for the lighting setups, listen for the audio, examine color grading, etc, etc.

An average audience member just wants to enjoy a great film and usually the only comments I hear from "average" viewers is in regards to the acting. Occasionally to the effects, and sometimes the set dressing.

As a result, while it is an interesting comparison, I don't think it is a fair comparison to check the "overall" score from non-technical viewers to the scores presented by the members here.

But, I also think that part of the score is reflective of the voters feelings of/toward the filmmaker...and that may not be necessarily all that bad. Think about it, if you aren't sure about a mainstream Hollywood film but really like the filmmaker, then you'll go see it anyway. And it does have an influence on your overall feeling about the film. That is part of the whole package, does the filmmaker present himself in a way that makes you glad to be involved in his project (as a viewer) and has he/she in the past provided great work that makes you excited for their next project?

It's part of the marketing "process" that we each must learn.

Just my $0.01 9/10

[Glideshot]

Another option would be to eliminate the categories altogether, and rate each film 1-100 (1-10 would chance too many ties). I think this is what Rubix is kind of getting to anyway.

I too think the best overall film won, but there were others that (IMO) deserved better placing.

[Larry Rutledge]

Let's not forget...the purpose of these "fests" is to get filmmakers out there making films. The prizes are just a bonus and an incentive to complete a project.

The ratings are a way for the other filmmakers here on the boards give feedback regarding what worked and what didn't work in the film.

The goal, as I understand it, is to provide prizes as a "thank you" for participating, but the real prize for the filmmaker is the individual category ratings, so they see what area(s) they should work on in the future in order to become a better filmmaker.

[seejay1031]

I think the whole purpose of having multiple categories was to learn. Learn in what areas we had to continue to work on. It is very valuable to see what people thought of the cinematography, sound, ect.

But a best in fest (or first overall) should go to the best film. And I think we can all agree that the best films are more than the sum of their parts, while some terrible films are much much less (glossy bad hollywood films).

Thus, the voter tweaks those individual categories to fit their idea of what the best films are, skewing the otherwise valuable results on the individual categories.

Best solution would probably keep all individual categories non competition (like sfx) and add a single overall which is the only category to count. Then the individual categories would be much more accurate. And I bet the top 3 would have still been the same.

[Rubix³]

I think part of the problem some people have when the fest scores are announced is that we, being more film tech savvy, tend to view/rate the films much more differently than the average film viewer would.

We aren't just watching a film for the purpose of escapism, rather are minds have been trained to look for the lighting setups, listen for the audio, examine color grading, etc, etc.

An average audience member just wants to enjoy a great film and usually the only comments I hear from "average" viewers is in regards to the acting. Occasionally to the effects, and sometimes the set dressing.

As a result, while it is an interesting comparison, I don't think it is a fair comparison to check the "overall" score from non-technical viewers to the scores presented by the members here.

But, I also think that part of the score is reflective of the voters feelings of/toward the filmmaker...and that may not be necessarily all that bad. Think about it, if you aren't sure about a mainstream Hollywood film but really like the filmmaker, then you'll go see it anyway. And it does have an influence on your overall feeling about the film. That is part of the whole package, does the filmmaker present himself in a way that makes you glad to be involved in his project (as a viewer) and has he/she in the past provided great work that makes you excited for their next project?

It's part of the marketing "process" that we each must learn.

Just my $0.01 9/10 You're right, and I agree. Even being a newbie. Lately, I find myself commenting (far too much according to the people around me :) ) on "color correction" and cam settings whenever I'm watching something. Even stuff I've seen 100 times.

Though I think as filmmakers we need to possess the ability to step out of the box when viewing films and view them as a true audience - the way we were when we were all "fans" first. I can do this.

After all, as aspiring filmmakers, isn't the non-technical audience the most important?


I think the whole purpose of having multiple categories was to learn. Learn in what areas we had to continue to work on. It is very valuable to see what people thought of the cinematography, sound, ect.

But a best in fest (or first overall) should go to the best film. And I think we can all agree that the best films are more than the sum of their parts, while some terrible films are much much less (glossy bad hollywood films).

Thus, the voter tweaks those individual categories to fit their idea of what the best films are, skewing the otherwise valuable results on the individual categories.

Best solution would probably keep all individual categories non competition (like sfx) and add a single overall which is the only category to count. Then the individual categories would be much more accurate. And I bet the top 3 would have still been the same. I'm 100% in agreement with you and I think this is the answer.

[Rubix³]

Another option would be to eliminate the categories altogether, and rate each film 1-100 (1-10 would chance too many ties). I think this is what Rubix is kind of getting to anyway.

I too think the best overall film won, but there were others that (IMO) deserved better placing. I hear ya. I just think the categories would help if they weren't skewed like mentioned above. Though, if the voters are all of us, I'm not sure that they won't end up skewed for certain reasons. 1-100 overall would work just fine.

[cinealma]

I'd have to say that there were definitely some surprises for me. One example is Broken Circle, which should have finished MUCH higher than it did.

I do agree that the voting/judging process does need an overhaul. Basically, if people followed the instructions, then the overall score would be the average of six categories: cinematography, editing, sound, score, screenplay and acting. As filmmakers on a DVX forum, this at first seems reasonable enough. But to rate a film as a whole, based simply on ONLY six categories, seems a bit "undernourished". There are many other "departments" involved in making a film. And how about directing? That probably should be one the first categories on the sheet if you're going to average in something.

But the simple truth is, initially the average person who is going to pick up their camera and shoot something to enter in a DVXUser.com contest will do the following:

- Knock out a first draft of a "script", which is also the final draft
- Call some friends, family, and ask "you wanna be in my movie?"
- Get together on the weekend at the house/backyard/nearby woods/school
- Shoot it without really adhering to the script
- Load the footage into their computer
- Cut it together
- Add a few "really cool" sound effects for emphasis here and there
- Bang out a quick soundtrack or maybe call in a favor to somebody
- FINISHED

Total time spent on the project, maybe a couple of weeks right before the deadline, WHICH THEY WILL LET EVERYONE HERE KNOW.

So, looking at the categories again, yeah, they seem to fit this model extremely well, and rewards as such.

BUT GUESS WHAT?

The bar has been raised. Our little home movies have grown up. People aren't just picking up their camera and shooting whatever. The production value on a LOT of the films in HorrorFest are outstanding!

And so, the judging of these contests should mature as well. Band-aid fixes like adding an "X-Factor" category, won't cut it. There really does need to be a revamping of the process.


John G.

[Rubix³]

That second quote in Post #9 should be attributed to "seejay1031", not myself. I don't hold to that plan and, personally, I don't think it fits the purpose, intent, or nature of this fest. My fault - copied the quote tags. Fixed.

[Barry_Green]

Let's not forget...the purpose of these "fests" is to get filmmakers out there making films. The prizes are just a bonus and an incentive to complete a project.

The ratings are a way for the other filmmakers here on the boards give feedback regarding what worked and what didn't work in the film.

The goal, as I understand it, is to provide prizes as a "thank you" for participating, but the real prize for the filmmaker is the individual category ratings, so they see what area(s) they should work on in the future in order to become a better filmmaker.

Thank you, Larry. That's exactly it, and it's why DVXFest is different from every other festival. There are no entry fees, there is no "acceptance or rejection", everybody gets in, everybody gets exhibited, everybody gets voted on.

With that said, we've been listening to what's been happening here, and we will adjust things appropriately for future festivals.

[VersuS]

I think the whole purpose of having multiple categories was to learn. Learn in what areas we had to continue to work on. It is very valuable to see what people thought of the cinematography, sound, ect.

.

I disagree with your assessment on how the rating for these categories works. e.g. my sound and score not only IMO were amongst the best of the fest (rhymes)...however i got very low scores, of course I dont care about it coz i know how i feel about these 2 areas, but let's not be to easy on saying that we learn a lot from these categories, these categories helped me to evaluate others...to focus on each specific category thus seeing myself what X user did good with lights or not and then try to learn from this..people thought that my score for love was better than the one for the door between, the first was soundtrack loops put together, the 2nd one had a score plus 2 songs fully arranged and performed by my brother and their quality (quality i say,not how they are liked by others) was one of the best in horrorfest, so what did I learn from this? Nada! i ll keep on using my brother to do sound and score coz in my team he is not only the only professional, but he know his stuff

[Jeremy Ordan]

I understand everyone's concerns regarding the fest and to echo Barry's comments, they have not gone unnoticed.

Regardless of whether you walked away with an HVX from this fest or whether you walked away with an Excel spreadsheet listing scores you disagree with, ultimately the one thing that this fest did was provide you motivation to go out and make a film and have a community of your peers watch and comment on it.

In my opinion, that is more valuable than anything else because from every project you work on you will take the experience and knowledge and move forward to make a better product the next time.

Congrats to EVERYONE who entered, you all accomplished something remarkable in my opinion.

[Jason Ramsey]

Amen. change is good. But the key things, listed by Barry & Larry... That's what it's all about. Everything else is just icing.

Jason

[VersuS]

ps. i think to properly rate these categories you need professionals with good and solid background, otherwise its just a 'i liked your lighting but that dont mean i know a whole lot more than you do about lights', I ve never used lights, i dont own a lighting kit, i m not sure i can properly use them, yet you have put your trust in me voting about your cinematography.....

[VersuS]

I understand everyone's concerns regarding the fest and to echo Barry's comments, they have not gone unnoticed.

Regardless of whether you walked away with an HVX from this fest or whether you walked away with an Excel spreadsheet listing scores you disagree with, ultimately the one thing that this fest did was provide you motivation to go out and make a film and have a community of your peers watch and comment on it.

In my opinion, that is more valuable than anything else because from every project you work on you will take the experience and knowledge and move forward to make a better product the next time.

Congrats to EVERYONE who entered, you all accomplished something remarkable in my opinion.

Amen to that! i ve said something along these lines from the day after the excel was released, to me its motivation to film. However in order to justify why I talked about sound and stuff in here, I merely did it to prove the point of learning from the scores. I disagree with that. You learn by comparing your stuff to others and by their COMMENTS, not their marks.

[khmuse]

Assuming that the user group continues to place votes as opposed to an anonymous screening panel, I would like to see two specific changes.

1) Anonymity. All filmmakers would submit their desire to enter into the festival in a secure and non public manner. Their films would be assigned a non descriptive title (film #01, #02, etc) and would not include title cards nor filmmakers credits (for the judged on-line version) which could identify any of the filmmakers involved.

2) Films would be judged on any criteria that the voter chose, but only a single number would be assigned to the film as a whole. Subsequent to the announcement of "the winners" (based solely upon the single number voting criteria) individual comments from both the viewers and filmmakers would be allowed.

I understand that this could have a negative effect at the head of the project for some users here as the "buzz" wouldn't be generated prior to the films release (participants would be allowed to discuss their experience, ask questions, with the only limit being that they can not divulge the films identity prior to the end of voting). What would then happen is that after the contest portion was over, a frank discussion of the films merits (or lack thereof) could occur without the undue influence of a contest yet to be judged. The upside in terms of user group participation would be that when the judging was over the real participation would begin and the interest in the contest would be extended (other than the post voting congratulations which occurs in the current contest format).

[VersuS]

extremely difficult scenario,why?

a)you cant control the pre-release discussions, maybe I want some help with a night shoot that involves 100 cars, day comes, people see the movies, oh yes, 100 cars, that's versus' movie

b)most people star in their movies or use same actors, I cant afford real actors, i ll probably use the same friends/or myself...what then? am I dq?

[Erik Olson]

The current voting system makes a lot of sense, providing "department to department" averaging that balances a final outcome.

I'm not certain that the way we score films will improve without introducing excessive complexity to the voting process - as in weighting one voting area against another (e.g., direction and cinemtography carries more percentage points than score or SFX).

In this particular festival, just as in the real world, marketing and perceived name value afforded some films a must-see status before they were uploaded. In the end though, it came down to what films scored well across all departments.

e

[Mark Johnson]

Maybe I'm missing something here. The 'marks' are what they are. I disagreed with a lot of them, but that's the nature of the system and to be expected any time you have open voting.

VersuS, you know how much I appreciated your work and nothing on the spreadsheet changes my opinion. However, the marks were merely the CONTEST and the means to win prizes. That was all they were. IF you want to win prizes and make THAT your main goal, you bet you can learn a lot from those marks ... . I'm not recommending that, but that's a fact of life.

For instance, The Morning After seemed to have a huge split whereby older viewers loved and appreciated it, while younger ones didn't (according to the film maker's comments on his thread). That, by definition, is going to result in lower marks on the spreadsheet BUT I would expect that Luster is very pleased that they produced the film they did and wouldn't change it if given the chance, solely to appeal to a younger demographic.

IF I was merely motivated to win prizes I would study carefully this spreadsheet because it provides a wealth of information, in association with all the threads to figure out some rhyme and reason to how the scoring occurred. In the end, that's exactly what goes on at the studio level and why there is so much "crap" put into theaters and on DVDs. If you're gonna try to satisfy the widest denominator you're going to stay away from more risky or less accessible projects. Broken Circle was brilliant, in my opinion, but definitely less accessible and less impressive to people who didn't recognize the complex blocking and sheer marvel of the single steadi-cam move.

Bloody Mary and Rekindled were beautifully crafted, IMHO. They also were more accessible on a number of levels. To me, the puzzle is to figure out a compromise that allows you to give that access while building a beautifully crafted film. IF you don't give a rat's ass about compromise, then make YOUR film and forget about the spreadsheet because it's only the scorecard for the contest - not a referendum of qualified critics.

[Erik Olson]

With respect to a panel. This is a community-based group of individuals with disparate tastes and levels of experience that run the gamut.

To bring a panel of professionals in judgement of filmmakers at different stages of development would only introduce another set of unique challenges.

Leave it alone - 100 posts to vote is a good qualifying benchmark and the greater peer-to-peer structure of the contest closely resembles the way Hollywood awards their own.

One thing never changes anytime there is competition - someone is always going to disagree with the outcome! Words to the creative types out there: get used to critique and be willing to learn from your peers.

e

[Cynic821]

I feel these fests are trying to be too many things at once.

[Erik Olson]

I don't follow. Aside from picking one movie every three months, what are the festivals trying to accomplish?

e

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

I feel like it's being asked to be too many things at once.
All it's trying to be is a peer made, viewed, and voted on theme by theme film fest.

I also think that Pro's, novices, your aunt and uncle, and some guy from the longshoreman's union all have a valid viewpoint on whether or not your lighting sucks or is great, because theoretically you are not making movies just for people that went to film school.

If the pro-ams here rate your lighting as tops or not so hot, take it in that context and use the information.

This is kind of like throwing a rubber ball at a brick wall and then complaining that the wall should be made of different material because of the way the ball bounced back.

The wall is what it is. Use the bounceback accordingly to adjust your thow. Wooden wall = different bounceback, and you would take that phenomenon on its own merit and adjust your throw without saying that the wall should be made of metal.

OK that's stretching for a metaphor, but hopefully you get my point.

[Rubix³]

I also think that Pro's, novices, your aunt and uncle, and some guy from the longshoreman's union all have a valid viewpoint on whether or not your lighting sucks or is great, because theoretically you are not making movies just for people that went to film school. I agree, and this is really the reason why I created this thread. The problem is though, that the individual markings are inaccurate because they're manipulated to obtain a final result number one is happy with.

Listen, I don't want anyone thinking I created this thread to rag on Horrorfest. Not at all. Larry R's post that Barry quoted is exactly right. But the others on this board that posted about the importance of accurate numbers are also right. It just pains me creatively (not egotistically) when I see my movie scored 4.5s across the board. That's not impossible, but that's not accurate either. What can I take from that? Even if I had a lower overall score, varying scores correctly describing the aspects we were given to critique would be much more beneficial.

I never had in my head that I'd win the camera. I just thought "ok well, if you didn't like the movie as a whole, did you like the sound? what about the cine? acting!? score?!!?!?" The results unfortunately don't tell me that, they just tell me that most of the viewers thought my movie was a 4.5.

Christ, now it sounds like I'm whining. :crybaby: :crybaby:

[Mark Johnson]

Well said J-Dan. I've always bridled at the suggestion that someone is not "qualified" to judge a work of art. Unless you specifically limit or restrict your work to a particular audience, you've got to accept that everyone has an opinion and they are entitled to them. Go look at the reviews on AtomFilms.com or even YouTube. There's a lot of haters who live to spit on almost anything that doesn't fit their idea of what's good. It's part of the game and one of the beauties of freedom.

Hmmmm. I think I'll go make an animated film satire about Mohammed. ... Well, maybe not.

[Kholi]

I agree, and this is really the reason why I created this thread. The problem is though, that the individual markings are inaccurate because they're manipulated to obtain a final result number one is happy with.

Listen, I don't want anyone thinking I created this thread to rag on Horrorfest. Not at all. Larry R's post that Barry quoted is exactly right. But the others on this board that posted about the importance of accurate numbers are also right. It just pains me creatively (not egotistically) when I see my movie scored 4.5s across the board. That's not impossible, but that's not accurate either. What can I take from that? Even if I had a lower overall score, varying scores correctly describing the aspects we were given to critique would be much more beneficial.

I never had in my head that I'd win the camera. I just thought "ok well, if you didn't like the movie as a whole, did you like the sound? what about the cine? acting!? score?!!?!?" The results unfortunately don't tell me that, they just tell me that most of the viewers thought my movie was a 4.5.

Christ, now it sounds like I'm whining. :crybaby: :crybaby:

It's probably easier than it looks. You take those 4.5's back to your thread, find the critiques that concern each area and apply them to your next effort.

The score goes from 4.5 to 6.5, hopefully.

In truth, those numbers (regardless of how biased they might've been, according to some) are kind-of representitive of skill level.

Jack didn't score 10's across the board... so put him at a level 7 in certain areas? So I guess Spielberg is like a 9.8? It's kinda like a video game.

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

... I never had in my head that I'd win the camera. I just thought "ok well, if you didn't like the movie as a whole, did you like the sound? what about the cine? acting!? score?!!?!?" The results unfortunately don't tell me that, they just tell me that most of the viewers thought my movie was a 4.5.

Christ, now it sounds like I'm whining. :crybaby: :crybaby:
actually when I look at the ballot I see it saying that viewers thought that, while there was significant room for improvement in all areas, you were more successful in the areas of cinematogrpahy sound and score and less succesful in script and acting.

I score you about a point higher than the final ballot and in mine your most successful areas were sound and acting, with cinematography, editing, and sound being only slightly behind and script being the lowest. So the final ballot is not very different from my score on your film, which was not adjusted to average you out or palce you anywhere.

IMHO, there's tons of info on that ballot for you to take and learn from when making your next film.

I don't think you are whining, but there's an old Zen saying ...
"When the student is ready the teacher appears."

[GenJerDan]

Maybe the sub-scores make it too mechanical?

I've seen films that sucked as far as sound, or photography, or direction goes, but I still "liked it" for unquantifiable reasons.

So...should it get a low overall score for the technical reasons, or low tech scores and a high final score?

Maybe we should do the 1-100 scale for ranking, but have the sub-categories there for the filmmakers' education & edification.

[VersuS]

this is a discussion thread that is headed nowhere

people talked about how many users arranged their technical marks according to the overall score, like they said 'this movie is a 4 for me, so i ll put the appropriate numbers in cine,edit etc to make it a 4'

then the same people say that we should have a 0-100 rating system

ok these two statements are a paradox
because the 1st one suggests that people DO give a 0-100 mark after all, so the 2nd statement contradicts the 1st

[Charli]

In a fest that's "free" and where the voting is left to the peers, that's brings
a different dynamic altogether. I do wonder how the voting would have
gone however if no one had marketed their films and if each film was
submitted without credits at the end - anonymously.

Would people in the lower ranks be higher and vice versa? It's an interesting
thought. But alas, the fest is what it is. Who is to say what's the best system?

I certainly have no clue. All I know is that as a screenwriter I learned a lot, what
to do and what not to do, I also learned much as a producer. For me, I got
something that can't be won as a prize, though mind you, a prize is nice.

I thought Jack's film was strong in sfx and editing, I did however think the story
was weak. There were other stories more entertaining. How did I judge that?
But having non-filmmakers watch a few shorts, those who were not bias
to the craft of filmmaking, the results were quite different.

So maybe, if we really want to test how the audience feels about our shorts,
maybe our judges need to be nonfilmmakers.

Charli

[VersuS]

judges in general are qualified people
a jury is not

so what did we have here, judges or jury? i m confused

[CallaghanFilms]

My http://www.geocities.com/the_callaghans/emoticon-14.gif

I saw that the voting system was flawed back during Sci-Fest.

Though there were many things that led me to this line of thinking (most of which I'd rather not discuss here)...
There are 3 major reasons I would like to cite:

#1) The number of users that voted was considerably less than actual entries in the fest

#2) Politics became involved (I can't speak on others' behalf...but apparently Team CallaghanFilms was perceived to have "pissed in someone else's pool", and a pack of mostly new users began spewing vile & unfounded venom about our film both in our thread and in other threads...one of these schmucks all but admitted to giving us 1's across the board)

even if one wanted to debate or attempt to debunk the two above; the following is pretty hard to argue against...

#3)

from http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=47763
drum roll please..


...Recognition of Excellence in Screenplay - DVXTrek by Trekky...



oh, and how could I forget...

#4 The HorrorFest results


I have seen mentioned (both in this thread and other HorrorFest post-results thread) two suggestions/compromises that I think could help drastically, and that I would get behind wholeheartedly...

-(Ideally) An outside jury panel making up 75% of the results...with the other 25% coming from the consensus dvxuser vote

-or-

-Assuming the voting remains 100% in house, the entries are submitted anonymously.



Again just my http://www.geocities.com/the_callaghans/emoticon-14.gif...take it or leave it

:beer:


↓

[Slimothy]

I was reading through this thread and had to stop somewhere around the third page.

I guarantee that none of these discussions would be happening if they hadn't released the spreadsheet. I wouldn't be surprised if, by the next fest Jarred says "I'm not going to release the scores this time, because too many people complain afterwards." I appreciated seeing the scores. I agree w/ Jack that maybe next time there should be a more overall category but that didn't happen this time. Who frickin cares?

Look at what they've done:

Purchased a $6,000 camera (among other prizes.)
Motivated 65 people to make a film.
Took on a huge workload.
They're releasing a DVD and if you're on it you can IMDB your film.
etc.
etc.

It just seems like a bunch of whining to me. Not JUST this thread, but I'm so sick of hearing "I saw all the other films and I KNOW that my film was better than a 5.6 in such and such category." I'm sure everyone feels that way! The fact is that no matter what festival you enter, it's not always going to be your idea of fair.

[TheatreGuy]

I have enjoyed reading this thread though I am disappointed that Rubix feels so cheated. In fact, I am sorry for anyone who feels cheated.

As I have stated in the thread that I started, "Congratulations to the 65 winner," we are all winners here. I know it sound cliche' but seriously, we all set out to do something and accomplished it. And most importantly, I, for one, walk away from this festival with more than I brought into it; knoweledge, experience and a better understanding of filmmaking.

But I wanted to jump in becuase I am one of the people that stated that I was going to alter the individual catagory scores to affect the general outcome. However, I didn't do that. First of all, I was pleasantly surprised at how the standings came out and secondly, I just didn't feel right inflating someones score or vice-versa just to acheive my desired result.

I just wanted to mention this, because I am one that publicly suggested that I would and I want to publicly announce that I didn't.

And though this system did place the films in a close enough ranking for me, given the current system, I am still a advocate of making adjustments to the voting system. (Just so people don't think that I am contradicting myself here from other posts that I have written.)

[Kholi]

I said, way back when the spreadsheet reared it's controversial head, that they were going to make the mods feel bad about it.

Don't be surprised if the spreadsheet disappears next fest. Thanks for that one.

[Charli]

Geez, Theo I have no idea what you just said.

For clairification, the top three films voted were the top three I picked, just not
in that order. I do however think that the entire festival outcome would have
been different if the audience were "the audience" like in many film festivals.

I remember voting on the one here in Santa Cruz. I hope as we all make films
that we keep in mind our audience is not each other, our audience is ma and pa
out there in the real world.

[CallaghanFilms]

It just seems like a bunch of whining to me. Not JUST this thread, but I'm so sick of hearing "I saw all the other films and I KNOW that my film was better than a 5.6 in such and such category." I'm sure everyone feels that way! The fact is that no matter what festival you enter, it's not always going to be your idea of fair.Gotta disagree, my friend.
I am more upset by the results of this fest (which I didn't enter) than I was by the other (which I did)

I am not saying, "I saw all the other films and I KNOW that my film was better than a 5.6 in such and such category."

I am saying, "Tim, I saw all the other films and I KNOW that YOUR film (and Broken Circle and Reunion and Lakeside and so on) was better than..." :beer:

[TheatreGuy]

Geez, Theo I have no idea what you just said.
.
I guess this is why I didn't win the screenwriter's catagory!!!

Perhaps I put too much in that post. I just heard mention of "people changing their scores to get the desired outcome." I wanted to admit that I was one that said that I would but I ended up not doing so.

That's all. :)

Plus some other junk about we're all winners, blah, blah, blah!

[Rubix³]

Well, a think a good deal of this thread has been taken out of context to make people (mainly me) seem ingrateful and spiteful of the fest. Don't let this be a reason to not submit the spreadsheet to the public. I wasn't trying to bitch and moan when I posted what I posted, and this certainly wasn't a thread about "why didn't I win" or "I deserved this." I was just trying to be honest with my initial post about some issues.

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

I don't think you come off that way.

I think the thread has been used as a soapbox by some that do come off that way.

[khmuse]

I have my opinions, and I am fairly certain that others have their opinions too, but unless any of us is willing to step up and run our own contest (I know for certain that I am not even remotely interested in that) we really can't complain on how this one was run. We are able to offer our suggestions and observations via this and other threads; remember, we can choose to participate or not based upon our own experiences in this and previous contests.

Thanks again for everyone involved in putting this thing together, I am certain that it was one hell of a lot of work!

[cinealma]

I think MOST people here are not complaining about the the spreadsheet final scores... just the actual spreadsheet itself.

And complaining is the wrong word.


John G.

[TheatreGuy]

I was going to say the same thing there, Rubix. I don't think you came off that way. I am just disappointed that you may be right. Perhaps some people did look at the films at the bottom of their list and give the same low number across the board (just to simplify their life).

That would be too bad if they did and a dis-service to you. Those numbers SHOULD have some significance to you... how else are you going to decipher the information?

[VersuS]

i ll use a slogan by some gum commercials here, 'sometimes it's better to chew than speak'

[cinealma]

I was also going to say that we probably wouldn't all be yapping so much about the damned spreadsheet/voting/judging if it were strictly a festival with a title award. Because of the generous prizes, they in essence made HorrorFest a CONTEST more than a festival.


John G.

[Larry Rutledge]

I just got back from lunch and saw this thread had grown considerably. I just finished reading through the pages and I have to say I am dumbfounded.

How ingrateful can you be. This is a FREE contest that offers FANTASTIC PRIZES. And, if that wasn't enough, you get the benefit of hearing what people of VARYING skill levels ACTUALLY THINKS about the work you created.

Unlike many contests/festivals, where you pay a fee and submit your film, then wait to see if it will be accepted. Then if it is accepted you wait while it is judged. If it wins you are told, "You win" and you get your prize. If you lose, you might be told, "You didn't win, sorry". And, that's the end of it. No feedback, no input as to what works, what didn't work.

If this fest continued but did away with the voting, spreadsheet, and prizes and all we got out of it was people commenting in our INDIVIDUAL THREADS about what they liked/dis-liked, that would be more than enough for me.

When I entered a film in the HeroFest, the best thing I received out of the whole experience was the EXPERIENCE of producing an actual film and seeing it through to the end. I learned how to deal with a myriad of problems and situations as they arose, trying to prevent me from completing the film. The second best thing I received was the FEEDBACK in the individual thread. What a blessing to hear what people thought and then get a chance to say, that makes sense, or to explain what I was thinking or what problems I was trying to overcome and then get feedback on how I might resolve that in future projects.

I think this thread should be closed and I am ashamed that it ever was created in the first place. Sure if you have an issue with how a particular thing is run, you should be able to say so. But this is a matter that should be taken up with Jarred and/or Barry S (the one's who run and administer the fest), not something run up the flagpole for everyone and their brother to bash and complain.

Thanks for listening.

Peace,
Larry

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

I do wanna stick up for Rubix briefly, Larry.

I don't feel like he was bitching ... just having some thoughts and conflicted feelings about how the category scores related to the overall scores, which is fine.

Just doesn't seem like the forum was mature enough to handle the discussion and it went other places.

[Rubix³]

*sigh*

Then just close it. I certainly don't want to be the guy who instigated the spreadsheet not getting released in the future.

I think anyone with a clear head can see that I wasn't trying to ... bah, the hell with it. I've said it a dozen times already.

[cinealma]

I just got back from lunch and saw this thread had grown considerably. I just finished reading through the pages and I have to say I am dumbfounded.

How ingrateful can you be. This is a FREE contest that offers FANTASTIC PRIZES. And, if that wasn't enough, you get the benefit of hearing what people of VARYING skill levels ACTUALLY THINKS about the work you created.

Unlike many contests/festivals, where you pay a fee and submit your film, then wait to see if it will be accepted. Then if it is accepted you wait while it is judged. If it wins you are told, "You win" and you get your prize. If you lose, you might be told, "You didn't win, sorry". And, that's the end of it. No feedback, no input as to what works, what didn't work.

If this fest continued but did away with the voting, spreadsheet, and prizes and all we got out of it was people commenting in our INDIVIDUAL THREADS about what they liked/dis-liked, that would be more than enough for me.

When I entered a film in the HeroFest, the best thing I received out of the whole experience was the EXPERIENCE of producing an actual film and seeing it through to the end. I learned how to deal with a myriad of problems and situations as they arose, trying to prevent me from completing the film. The second best thing I received was the FEEDBACK in the individual thread. What a blessing to hear what people thought and then get a chance to say, that makes sense, or to explain what I was thinking or what problems I was trying to overcome and then get feedback on how I might resolve that in future projects.

I think this thread should be closed and I am ashamed that it ever was created in the first place. Sure if you have an issue with how a particular thing is run, you should be able to say so. But this is a matter that should be taken up with Jarred and/or Barry S (the one's who run and administer the fest), not something run up the flagpole for everyone and their brother to bash and complain.

Thanks for listening.

Peace,
Larry

Larry,

I don't think people here are really being ungrateful. I think we all realize what it takes to put together something like HorrorFest and that the prizes that were negotiated with outside vendors were pretty awesome.

But since were are all part of a community here, there are times we may not agree with each other or those who are running it. And to say that we should basically keep our feelings to ourselves when it comes to community subjects, well, that seems like your putting a little bit of a thin skin on the face of it.

I think the discourse in this thread is good. There was a contest held and there are those that feel the contest could be changed up a bit. Since this contest TOTALLY based on peer voting, why can't the peers talk about the acutal process of voting? I KNOW Jarred et. al. listen. And that's good enough for me. If a decision is made to change up things, that's great. If not, that doesn't mean the world is coming to an end.

Anyway, I'm not dissing you, Larry. I'm sure you are as frustrated with all this stuff as anybody else.

Peace brother,


John G.

[cinealma]

Just doesn't seem like the forum was mature enough to handle the discussion and it went other places.

You nailed it on the head, Jack.


John G.

[Larry Rutledge]

Perhaps I was a bit harsh, but reading the subsequent pages really rubbed me the wrong way. Sure, I'm fine with voicing your opinion if you have questions or disagree with something. But it seemed like the following posts spiraled downward.

I don't take back what I said, but I agree that it was fair for Rubix, and others, to voice his opinion/concern/disagreement. What I disagree with is people acting like they are being cheated or robbed because of how the fest is run. It was set up that way and has been discussed to death in the past. This is how it is, and how it likely will stay. If you want a jury vote, enter a contest with a jury vote.

Just my two-cents. Don't want to upset/offend anyone, just voicing my opinion too.

Peace,
Larry

[Rubix³]

I don't take back what I said, but I agree that it was fair for Rubix, and others, to voice his opinion/concern/disagreement. So you still are ashamed that the thread was created, and don't take it back, but it's fair for me to voice an opinion, but you don't want to offend or be harsh...

Are you having a bad day? :)

[VersuS]

something to break the ice: 'why'd you shoot me?'

[Larry Rutledge]

Apparently I'm not doing a very good job of explaining myself today, please disregard my comments...I'm bowing out of this conversation.



Are you having a bad day? :)

Actually, I am...and not just one. So, it probably wasn't right for me to interject my feelings. Sorry if I offended anyone, that was not my intent.

Peace,
Larry

[Cynic821]

I feel robbed (not for myself, but for others) at the fact i thought this would be different than i thought it would, and would actually be upset if i didnt find the way people think comical.

[Rubix³]

Apparently I'm not doing a very good job of explaining myself today, please disregard my comments...I'm bowing out of this conversation.




Actually, I am...and not just one. So, it probably wasn't right for me to interject my feelings. Sorry if I offended anyone, that was not my intent.

Peace,
Larry Don't sweat it man. I had a feeling there was something, no worries.

Hope your days get better. It sucks when they pile up.

Stick around. Now we're trying to break up the ice.
Guess the quote:

"Ahhhhhh Aren't I lucky - I got a chunky bit." (anyone?)

[david jerome]

I didn't enter this fest. I watched every movie and would have liked to have voted but it seemed like to much of a task. I would have definitely voted on just a best movie category if there was one.

I think this fest was awesome. I hate now that I missed it. I think as long as everyone shows appreciation for this outlet it should be ok to voice any opinions. We are all here to become better and that is done with helping each other. And if the score card can become better why not talk about it. Let's just be careful and not sound like we don't appreciate it.

I am entering the next fest and can't wait. There better be one!

[Rubix³]

I didn't enter this fest. I watched every movie and would have liked to have voted but it seemed like to much of a task. I would have definitely voted on just a best movie category if there was one.

I think this fest was awesome. I hate now that I missed it. I think as long as everyone shows appreciation for this outlet it should be ok to voice any opinions. We are all here to become better and that is done with helping each other. And if the score card can become better why not talk about it. Let's just be careful and not sound like we don't appreciate it.

I am entering the next fest and can't wait. There better be one! I think that the debating we do over the fests doesn't show a lack of appreciation... quite the contrary actually to me. It shows how serious we all are about it, and how highly we think of it.

This was my first fest ever, and I'm passionate about it because it will always be my memory of Halloween 2006. I don't see it as just a free festival (I never even thought about that until today). This is Sundance for me right now. Horrorfest is huge and was on my mind from the minute I heard about it.

[Beat Takeshi]

So maybe post all the excel sheets to see the individual scores to see how the splits were on catagories. If 5 people give a section 10s and the other 5 give it 1s you get a 5 I think. At least you get to see that some people really liked that element and not just a 5.

[cinealma]

So maybe post all the excel sheets to see the individual scores to see how the splits were on catagories. If 5 people give a section 10s and the other 5 give it 1s you get a 5 I think. At least you get to see that some people really liked that element and not just a 5.

Yeah, let's throw some gasoline on the fire. :)


John G.

[Beat Takeshi]

Wha..who...huh?
whachutalkinboutwillis?
;)

[arielman]

Politics or not , My brother and I had fun entering this fest . Gord listened to everyones comments on DRACO and he wants to improve himself .
Personally I don't care if we finished 44th 0r 40 or wherever we placed .
It was fun doing this and to watch some incredible films here .

If it wasn't for guys like CallaghanFilms, Envision , Oughtobecommited and many others who took the time to offer suggestions and encouragement when I entered my first contest (Zombie) I'm not sure if would of continued .

I (we) learn not only from the spread sheet but from the constructive criticism of others and watching Jacks, Envision, TimC , Aram , Callaghan and the many talented DVX members shorts .
And the Number one reason for doing this is to have FUN FUN FUN and to learn as well .
So MANY Thanks to Jarred , Barry and all the others who help Host these FEST .
Ian

[Mark Johnson]

Damn, arielman, thanks for that nice post reminding everyone how much value this festival had for you.

You totally get it, dude. Looking forward for you guys kicking ass next time!

[GenJerDan]

So maybe post all the excel sheets to see the individual scores to see how the splits were on catagories. If 5 people give a section 10s and the other 5 give it 1s you get a 5 I think. At least you get to see that some people really liked that element and not just a 5.

That's pretty much what I'm talking 'bout.

Have categories so the makers can see what they need to work on (or what they excel at already).

But have the ranking score separate. Because, honestly, you can be excellent in all the "technical" categories and still make a bleh film.

And the opposite, of course. (And more likely.)

[Brandon Rice]

this whole thread bores and bothers me... stop getting wrapped around the axle because you didn't win... LOOK... a contest is NEVER perfect... someone always find SOMETHING to complain about... but look, most all of us had FUN, even if we didn't submit anything, and it got a LOT of people out there making films... heck, Sci-Fest did it for me, and I've grown in the craft a TON since... I owe a lot to these fests, and I hope they keep going for years to come.

[conrad_johnson]

this whole thread bores and bothers me... stop getting wrapped around the axle because you didn't win... LOOK... a contest is NEVER perfect... someone always find SOMETHING to complain about... but look, most all of us had FUN, even if we didn't submit anything, and it got a LOT of people out there making films... heck, Sci-Fest did it for me, and I've grown in the craft a TON since... I owe a lot to these fests, and I hope they keep going for years to come.
Word up:thumbup: :beer:

[Brandon Rice]

Love the sig dude, HAHA!

One more thing to add....

Filmmakers of horrorfest... be proud in the fact you went out there and created something! We all have to start somewhere... you should see the crap I did when I first started TRYING to make films... it's so bad compared to some first-timers on here... Be proud of your films, and keep growing... it's all about getting better here... I am convinced we can always learn something... heck, even Steven Spielberg I am sure learns new things from time to time... :)

[Ought2bCommitted]

Politics or not , My brother and I had fun entering this fest . Gord listened to everyones comments on DRACO and he wants to improve himself .
Personally I don't care if we finished 44th 0r 40 or wherever we placed .
It was fun doing this and to watch some incredible films here .

If it wasn't for guys like CallaghanFilms, Envision , Oughtobecommited and many others who took the time to offer suggestions and encouragement when I entered my first contest (Zombie) I'm not sure if would of continued .

I (we) learn not only from the spread sheet but from the constructive criticism of others and watching Jacks, Envision, TimC , Aram , Callaghan and the many talented DVX members shorts .
And the Number one reason for doing this is to have FUN FUN FUN and to learn as well .
So MANY Thanks to Jarred , Barry and all the others who help Host these FEST .
Ian

Ian, many thanks to YOU for sharing your film(s) with us to critique! I look forward to seeing more from you!

Robert

[Barry_S]

I really have to apologize for releasing the spreadsheet because I had no idea some of you would take it so seriously. The spreadsheet is the tiniest of footnotes to DVXfest and I already decided before this thread that I'll never release one again. My original idea with the spreadsheet was to give filmmakers feedback in specific areas rather than a single score. However, that was before John suggested we have individual threads for each film. Well, the filmmakers get plenty of specific feedback in the threads and the subscores have become pointless, misleading and apparently hurtful. It depresses me that filmmakers are bummed over their scores when they should feel a sense of accomplishment and community.

The next DVXfest will see this whole voting/scoring process minimized because it's shifting the focus away from the core values of DVXfest--stimulating filmmaking, improving your craft, collaborating, and sharing. We *aren't* like other festivals and this is on purpose. DVXuser is an incubator for filmmakers, not a traditional festival organization.

[Kholi]

Figured that was coming, sooner or later...

I hope you guys chill out about this spreadsheet thing, now that voting is probably going to be either minimized. Next thing you know you'll drive them to NIX the contest part of the fest--

Then you'll all be forced to focus on the real deal.

[Matt Sconce]

DVXuser is an incubator for filmmakers, not a traditional festival organization.

That is what I love about this place. I came here knowing nothing about this stuff, around the Scifest time. I studied and learned, tried stuff and failed to meet my expectations, got feedback and helpful tips, met awesome people, and was encouraged, and finally made Stricken, and purchased an HVX. WOW! What a long road it has been and I owe it all to the happy day I found this place. I appreciate the time everyone has taken to make the fest happen, and all of the people getting out there and making films! Be inspired, make something better. I am trying to do that yet again. I am in this incubator, trying to hatch! http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/10327/1161222721.jpg

[Shaun Patrick]

The next DVXfest will see this whole voting/scoring process minimized because it's shifting the focus away from the core values of DVXfest--stimulating filmmaking, improving your craft, collaborating, and sharing. We *aren't* like other festivals and this is on purpose. DVXuser is an incubator for filmmakers, not a traditional festival organization.

I definitely agree with this. We didn't participate in Horror Fest but I think the non-disclosure of the spreadsheet for Hero Fest, in retrospect (because people, including me were pushing for it), was a good thing. These fests are a great thing BUT I think the majority of critiques on individuals threads create a false sense of hope. People err on the side of being very positive in their comments (nothing wrong with this) and, as a result, the final tallies may come as a surprise to some people. We saw the same thing after Sci-Fest that we're seeing now.

Honestly, though, I think these fests--specifically in relation to individual film discussion thread views--are by and by a popularity contest with a lot of new users' films being left at the wayside. A user's popularity on the board directly relates to thread views BUT, interestingly enough in many cases, not necessarily to higher votes. Just an observation.

Word.

[Matt Sconce]

Yep. For example, Meat and halfway are two of the movies that came out of no where with almost no promotion and blew people away. That just shows the voting is not a popularity contest, and that, regardless of thread views, films are voted on by their merits.

[kimko]

a short is a short is a short. who cares! let's move on! feature baby! thats what i'm talking about! it's like these auditions i do every week .....fugettaboutit..................let's see some writing... let's see some acting....let's see the cinematography, let's hear some sounds.....that will keep the audience's attention! for 90 minutes! everybody has an opinon on directors (name)and how crappy they think they are.....well........i'm sure one of us can make some crap that's just as good!..............?

[Michael_Petro]

Man ok now I'm unhappy. I was super glad the spreadsheet came out. 57 woohoo! <--not a joke ... I wanted to see where I ranked so I would know what to try next ... see the rank check the comments blam next film maybe better.. so if we are not gonna see the rankings I wont be to happy.... I had a blast making my film I tell ya.. I told the cast, hey last try for second to last place cuz I'm new and I had already seen some previous stuff (JDS bonehand knew I was doomed :) ). So we went for it trying not to be in last place and fellow film makers I accomplished what I set out to do :) (HAVE FUN. make a movie. Get some good criticing and don't come in last place, AND LEARN HOW TO GET BETTER :) )

I loved this fest because I got good,bad, and inbetween reviews and I was able to see the results of all that in the spreadsheet. which to me was pretty cool.

Did I like the fact that some movie the bored me to tears was way higher than me.. hell no , But because the spreadsheet was there I looked at that and then checked the threads so maybe I could see why they where way up there and I was way down here. As far as I am concerned it was very helpful and would like it to continue.

my 2 pennies

[Matt Sconce]

It is still very possible that the rankings will be given out, just not the spreadsheets.

[Cynic821]

I dont see anything wrong with releasing the spreadsheet, and especially dont see anything wrong with people commenting on where they were ranked in it. And without an entry fee, expect all types of personalities and people to enter in a publicly available forum. The reason why this thread has degradaded into what it is, is because the backlash is not coming from the people commenting about the ranking, but people questioning why they are commenting about where they are ranking. Ever told a sane person they are insane? thats how it is.

After seeing the rankings, i can see these fests are unique, and advice to Mike Petro, dont worry about the ranking, or a good majority of the DVX user comments, IN MY OPINION, because after reading and searching, (specifically on these boards) and being part of this and all and being here forever (past 3 years.) only past half year as a participating member, i can tell you it will please them, but if you want to please the world outside the DVX members bubble, you will need to seek more external advice.

waits to be flamed as usual...

[Kholi]

I dont see anything wrong with releasing the spreadsheet, and especially dont see anything wrong with people commenting on where they were ranked in it. And without an entry fee, expect all types of personalities and people to enter in a publicly available forum. The reason why this thread has degradaded into what it is, is because the backlash is not coming from the people commenting about the ranking, but people questioning why they are commenting about where they are ranking. Ever told a sane person they are insane? thats how it is.

After seeing the rankings, i can see these fests are unique, and advice to Mike Petro, dont worry about the ranking, or a good majority of the DVX user comments, IN MY OPINION, because after reading and searching, (specifically on these boards) and being part of this and all and being here forever (past 3 years.) only past half year as a participating member, i can tell you it will please them, but if you want to please the world outside the DVX members bubble, you will need to seek more external advice.

waits to be flamed as usual...
Yeah, you are waiting to be flamed and for a reason. You're consistantly condescending, and what's better is that you're condescending toward the general DVXuser population.

Your posts always reflect the pompous atttiude of a stereotypical "goth kid", sitting on his/her jet black stallion talking down to the "normal" people. You honestly might want to change that; you never know who on these boards are capable of giving you the chance of a lifetime.

The first part of your post was totally reasonable, and then you go on to say that "these fests are unique" and "don't worry about the majority of the DVXuser comments.". Really, Cynic... you live up to your handle.

I totally respect the fact that you have an opinion. Let's not try to sprinkle it with passive-aggressive razor cuts to the community; it's getting really old.

---

The spreadsheet is fine. Those who are unsatisfied with the spreadsheet as it reads should take it as PEER ranking. You are free, at this point, to post on YouTube for more honest feedback, or go and tell your closest friends to be honest about what they think as audience members.

Please, let's not weigh the DVXfests down with this type of thing. I learned a lot from just WATCHING the entries and it inspired me to start writing so that I could get my own project underway sooner than later.

Let's not ruin good things like these.

[D_and_G]

DVXuser is an incubator for filmmakers, not a traditional festival organization. http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/5258/1161225444.jpg

Dvxbabychickies... c'mon little chickie, diffuse that HMI, do a one take dolly shot, angle that ladder, show some boobies :beer: :beer:

[Matt Sconce]

http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/5258/1161225444.jpg

Dvxbabychickies... c'mon little chickie, diffuse that HMI, c'mon little chickie, do a one take dolly shot, c'mon little chickie, angle that ladder, c'mon little chickie show some boobies :beer: :beer:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!:thumbup:

[Cynic821]

Yeah, you are waiting to be flamed and for a reason. You're consistantly condescending, and what's better is that you're condescending toward the general DVXuser population.

Your posts always reflect the pompous atttiude of a stereotypical "goth kid", sitting on his/her jet black stallion talking down to the "normal" people. You honestly might want to change that; you never know who on these boards are capable of giving you the chance of a lifetime.

The first part of your post was totally reasonable, and then you go on to say that "these fests are unique" and "don't worry about the majority of the DVXuser comments.". Really, Cynic... you live up to your handle.

I totally respect the fact that you have an opinion. Let's not try to sprinkle it with passive-aggressive razor cuts to the community; it's getting really old.

---

The spreadsheet is fine. Those who are unsatisfied with the spreadsheet as it reads should take it as PEER ranking. You are free, at this point, to post on YouTube for more honest feedback, or go and tell your closest friends to be honest about what they think as audience members.

Please, let's not weigh the DVXfests down with this type of thing. I learned a lot from just WATCHING the entries and it inspired me to start writing so that I could get my own project underway sooner than later.

Let's not ruin good things like these.

What kind of response (especially considering your opinion of me, and my history of continuing on with arguments that i really shouldnt [flame war arguments]) do you expect out of me with that post? You could have been much more tactful and thought about that as well when you posted that, but ill spare you and just let my opinion sit there and not participate. But remember, you should think about posting that kind of response when you think that im the type of person you think i am, because you had to expect some sort of "retaliation post" , which would then continue and escalate like it already has in this thread. Ill be the bigger person and not accuse people of being something they are not, again its like being called crazy when you arent.

[Kholi]

What kind of response (especially considering your opinion of me, and my history of continuing on with arguments that i really shouldnt [flame war arguments]) do you expect out of me with that post? You could have been much more tactful and thought about that as well when you posted that, but ill spare you and just let my opinion sit there and not participate. But remember, you should think about posting that kind of response when you think that im the type of person you think i am, because you had to expect some sort of "retaliation post" , which would then continue and escalate like it already has in this thread. Ill be the bigger person and not accuse people of being something they are not, again its like being called crazy when you arent.

:thumbup:

I thought it out before I posted it, and have plenty of reason as to why I did. I didn't expect any response from you. Whether you responded or not (which you did) it wouldn't have changed what I posted.

You should understand: you seem to freely post snide comments here and there, stapled with the opinion card. So, it's natural for someone to respond to it, in a way you may or may not enjoy. There's no "flame war". Save that for Off-topic.com.

I'm sure your opinions would be appreciated a lot more around this community if you left the rest at the door.

<3

[Cynic821]

Didnt expect any type of response from me? There is alot just plain ol' wrong with your post, you seem to think, more than i do of myself, that you are better than me on your horse. Maybe you should come down from it as well.

Sorry, i dont come apart. You may think my comments are snide, they arent meant to be.

[Mino]

With all due respect...You guys should go on the PM sideband with the rest of it:
)

[Kholi]

Please see post times. We left it alone an hour ago.