Important Message For All Horrorfest Filmmakers!

[Brandon Rice]

To make the job on Jarred and Barry S easier, PLEASE.... REMOVE ALL NUMBERS for your own film from your ballot. That way we will NOT have to do this manually, thanks a lot!

[zenbarai]

Just to be sure I fully understand what you mean by that: are we not to vote for ourselves?

Ben

[Brandon Rice]

Correct, leave the boxes for your own film BLANK.

[Beat Takeshi]

When did that change?

[JoshuaNitschke]

I already submitted.... Should I resend?

[VersuS]

I sent 2 days ago...:(

[Brandon Rice]

I already submitted.... Should I resend?

no, you're fine.

[Robert Eldon]

Brandon,

This should probably be a 'sticky' or added to the voting instructions.

- RobertE

[MsManhattan]

I'm sorry, but I think this is STUPID (all caps intentional). Do you think Oscar nominees are told they can't vote for themselves, or SAG Award nominees or basically anyone in contention for an award or public office??? I fail to see the connection between not voting for ourselves and running the spreadsheet manually. What is the point of voting if you can't vote for yourself?

[Kyle Stebbins]

I think it makes total sense!

[MsManhattan]

I think it makes total sense!


Why? As noted, the tradition with any kind of voting is that the candidate/nominee/contender/whatever is always allowed to vote for whomever they want, including themselves.

[Brandon Rice]

I am sorry you don't like the new guidelines... but I think most everyone here has agreed it's a good change. Anyway, Barry_S will be handling all the ballot totals and whatnot, so he'll make sure everything is done fairly.

[MsManhattan]

I am sorry you don't like the new guidelines... but I think most everyone here has agreed it's a good change. Anyway, Barry_S will be handling all the ballot totals and whatnot, so he'll make sure everything is done fairly.


I still don't see what would be unfair about voting for yourself. That's the American Way. I would really like to hear the logic behind this decision. (And, do you really think you know what everyone here thinks? That's an awful lot of people. Some of whom, I wouldn't doubt, are unwilling to go on the record.)

[Robert Eldon]

Well, I submitted my ballot with my entry ratings cleared out. I hope this was an official announcement?

I think the point is that if everyone gave themselves a 10, then it would be a wash. So leaving it blank is the same thing. I'm assuming by what Brandon posted, that the mods doing the counting will clear the ratings for their own film, even if we don't do it.

Quite frankly, I gave myself as objective a rating as I could (not 10's), but then cleared them out after this announcement.

[TristanPR]

Well - for those of us without 100+ posts - thus unable to vote, I think it's completely fair. Why should you be able to vote 10's across the board on your film, and not us users without 100 posts?

It makes total sense.

[JoshuaNitschke]

If you have a film in the competition you can vote regardless of the number of posts you have.

Regardless, I'm glad to know that you guys aren't counting votes on the maker's own film.

[Beat Takeshi]

I am sorry you don't like the new guidelines... but I think most everyone here has agreed it's a good change. Anyway, Barry_S will be handling all the ballot totals and whatnot, so he'll make sure everything is done fairly.
When was the meeting with everyone?
Does this mean flicks like Bloody mary loses 5 votes because 5 people from here worked on it. Did someone complain about something like that? I think for Bloody mary everyone should be able to vote except Mark because it skews the votes for his film big time if thats not the case.

[Matt Sconce]

When was the meeting with everyone?
Does this mean flicks like Bloody mary loses 5 votes because 5 people from here worked on it. Did someone complain about something like that? I think for Bloody mary everyone should be able to vote except Mark because it skews the votes for his film big time if thats not the case.
ABSOLUTELY AGREE! Just directors cannot vote I hope. That would be horrible for films like Bloody Mary.

[JoshuaNitschke]

Hmm. Not sure I agree.

Jon Mueller the writer, director, and an actor in Second Hand Smoke isn't registered on here at all and I have a feeling probably won't. But if he did, by this logic, one of us should be able to vote. I don't think either of us should.

Also, films with what, 5+ people working on it could really sway the vote if they all gave 10s. The whole point is to bring thing to get rid of that kind of thing.

And where do you cut off who worked on it? I could get the composer to sign up here and vote for it as well. Her work is in the film, she doesn't have 100 posts, would she be allowed to vote?

I think if you were involved in making it you shouldn't get to vote.

[Beat Takeshi]

By that logic Bloody Mary loses 5 votes BUT every other film gets 5 extra votes from the people of Bloody Mary. Last fest, Jack had the same 5 people working on his film Bone hand, I'm sure everyone that worked on it probably gave it 10s. Now another film is in that same position and its going to get screwed. But bottom line, all the films that had more than one person from here working on it loses those votes but the other films gain those extra votes. The rules shouldn't change right before voting either.

[Jason Ramsey]

What is the point of voting if you can't vote for yourself?

??? are you serious?

Anyways, it's a little different when your talking about 4 or 5 actors up for the same oscar. Or if you're talking about a presidential office where there are 100 million people voting. And no, you are not allowed to vote for yourself in all voting instances. This is one example :)

Besides, if 70 something films all vote for themselves, that can make a dent in the effort to handle the balloting fairly. And if 70 something films all vote for themselves, that is pretty much the same thing as if those 70 something films can't vote for themselves... But not everyone will vote for themselves... Why is this a discussion, honestly? There are big prizes being given away here. An HVX to the winner? Hello, that is a big deal, why even risk doing something like this that could potentially have a negative effect on the accuracy, legitimacy and outcome of the voting process.

Next we'll have people demanding an independent recount, etc, etc. "Jarred is bias towards the other moderators who entered films..." or something.

This isn't little league. Everybody doesn't get a turn. May the best man win.
If you don't have a reason to vote because you can't vote for yourself, then why vote at all, is right. You shouldn't if that is your way of thinking.

What happened to the line of thinking that people wanted to enter, to better their skills, practice, get experience, collaborate, provide and receive feedback, etc., etc. You know, all those personally rewarding reasons...

Why doesn't every film just get 1 vote from the get go, and then, no, you can't vote for a film that you played a hand in making. This way people who just want to vote for themselves get that vote.

Sorry for my rant :)
Jason

* and how bout this. If you played a secondary role in making a film, you can mark your ballot with an asterisk, vote for whoever you like, and let the powers that be decide whether to include your vote on the film you collaborated on.
It is my understanding that it is not the film with the most votes, it is the film with the highest average score (provided that film received a significant enough number of votes)

[JoshuaNitschke]

By that logic Bloody Mary loses 5 votes BUT every other film gets 5 extra votes from the people of Bloody Mary. Last fest, Jack had the same 5 people working on his film Bone hand, I'm sure everyone that worked on it probably gave it 10s. Now another film is in that same position and its going to get screwed. But bottom line, all the films that had more than one person from here working on it loses those votes but the other films gain those extra votes. The rules shouldn't change right before voting either.
Except you aren't voting FOR; you are rating.

Complete difference. In fact, the fact you are saying this will hurt the makers indicates that you are saying they will vote for their film to be the top.

[Jason Ramsey]

yes, so how would a film with five collaborators be losing 5 votes? That is like saying that you are intending on giving your film 10's across the board, in which case your vote should be null and void.

*sorry Virum. I wasn't seeing your entire post for some reason. I just repeated you :)

[JoshuaNitschke]

Exactly! Glad someone understands where I'm coming from.

[Beat Takeshi]

Except you aren't voting FOR; you are rating.

Complete difference. In fact, the fact you are saying this will hurt the makers indicates that you are saying they will vote for their film to be the top.

Why wouldn't you vote your own film, your baby to be at the top?

[Kyle Stebbins]

i think that just the director shouldnt vote... primarily because the director will get the prize... IMO. -- it's not that big of deal, guys... honestly. WE MADE MOVIES!!! How many people can say that?? HUH!?

I had a darned good time making my movie. Anyone else?
Who cares what I place... I had a blast and had a ton of fun.

[vidled]

May the best man win.

or woman :beer:

[JoshuaNitschke]

Why wouldn't you vote your own film, your baby to be at the top?
Because it doesn't deserve to be.

[Jason Ramsey]

i I had a darned good time making my movie. Anyone else? Who cares what I place... I had a blast and had a ton of fun.

Thank you!!!



Why wouldn't you vote for yourself? When there is a 6,000 dollar camera to be given to the winner? Because, that is just tacky

Jason


* or Woman. My apologies :)

[Beat Takeshi]

You should think more of your own work. The very first fest this came up and voting 10s for your own was just fine since everyone would do it, it would cancel everyones out anyways. Now we have where there are more than one eligible voters so thats not the case but its been fine until this fest. If the rules were to change it should have happened 3 months ago.

[TimurCivan]

ok but wait. I was AC on Memories, 2nd Unit DP on "This death your captain speaking" and DP on Bloody mary.

Does this mean all my votes for these movies are void?

[Jason Ramsey]

Things change. Shit happens. If the fest never changed from its inception, there wouldn't be a fest right now probably. If the fest never changed, they wouldn't be giving away all of these kick ass prizes.

If you filmed one take for your film and never changed it, it would suck.

It's all in an effort to make the fest better.


The very first fest this came up and voting 10s for your own was just fine since everyone would do it, it would cancel everyones out anyways. Now we have where there are more than one eligible voters so thats not the case
Right. now the case is that there is an increased chance of bias playing a role.

Jason

[Beat Takeshi]

Thats what it seems.

[JoshuaNitschke]

Right. now the case is that there is an increased chance of bias playing a role.

Right, such as some films having 5 people able to vote 10s across the board and others only having 1.

That's why I think if you worked on a film you shouldn't be able to vote.

And I am proud of my work, but it doesn't deserve to be in the top 5. I don't know that it deserves to be in the top 10 either.

I'm objective and also recognize that I have huge room for growth. When there's an HVX as the prize I am not going to try to rate mine to the top to get it, that's not what this contest is about.

It sounds to me like you people who oppose it just don't want your advantage taken away. The ratings will be more accurate if people involved are not allowed to vote on their own film, provided that people aren't intentionally down-rating films just to win.

If anybody has done that I'd be severely disappointed.

[Beat Takeshi]

Right. now the case is that there is an increased chance of bias playing a role.

Jason
Exactly. Thats what happened last fest so why the change now? And if I remember correctly, that conversation came up during shooting durung the last fest.

[Jason Ramsey]

ok but wait. I was AC on Memories, 2nd Unit DP on "This death your captain speaking" and DP on Bloody mary.

Does this mean all my votes for these movies are void?


Again. I think a way to handle this could be:
In the even there is more than one collaborator on a film, and that person played a secondary role, there could possible be a way to mark your ballot as such, cast your votes as you intended, and let there be a mediator, Jarred or whoever is handling the vote tallying, to make the final call on whether to include your vote or not on the film(s) that you collaborated on.
But, why not just make it easy and not let anyone vote on any film they were in? It eliminates the possibility of bias, or for accusations to fly about there being bias. Period.

Jason

[Beat Takeshi]

Again. I think a way to handle this could be:
In the even there is more than one collaborator on a film, and that person played a secondary role, there could possible be a way to mark your ballot as such, cast your votes as you intended, and let there be a mediator, Jarred or whoever is handling the vote tallying, to make the final call on whether to include your vote or not on the film(s) that you collaborated on.
But, why not just make it easy and not let anyone vote on any film they were in? It eliminates the possibility of bias, or for accusations to fly about there being bias. Period.

Jason

That would only work if they didn't vote for any of the films. This is because they tally all the votes and if Marks film has 10 votes but our film has 15 because of them not voting on theirs, ours might fair better because of volume of votes instead a quality. Why are you not seeing that?

[Beat Takeshi]

But bottom line, why did the rules change just before the voting and AFTER we see how everyone is doing? That seems...just not right.

[TimurCivan]

its more fair, for everyone to vote themselves a 10, and have your own 10 negate others 10 votes. than to have you not vote on 3 movies cause yo ushowed up on set to help a friend.

[TimurCivan]

When was the meeting with everyone?
Does this mean flicks like Bloody mary loses 5 votes because 5 people from here worked on it. Did someone complain about something like that? I think for Bloody mary everyone should be able to vote except Mark because it skews the votes for his film big time if thats not the case.


And BTW were not getting 5, 10+ Votes. it mostly just me and mark. the crew had their own films to make and vote for. SHawn for example. He helped me pull focus. he has his own movie to vote for. and he probably wouldnt mind winning himslef.

[Beat Takeshi]

And BTW were not getting 5, 10+ Votes. it mostly just me and mark. the crew had their own films to make and vote for. SHawn for example. He helped me pull focus. he has his own movie to vote for. and he probably wouldnt mind winning himslef.

But it would also be in his best interest if you guys won also.

[JoshuaNitschke]

And BTW were not getting 5, 10+ Votes. it mostly just me and mark. the crew had their own films to make and vote for. SHawn for example. He helped me pull focus. he has his own movie to vote for. and he probably wouldnt mind winning himslef.
Well you know, there is also a difference between being "involved" (committed) with a film and helping out on set one day (while still having your own film). I'd say those people should be allowed to vote.

Think about Sin City. Would anybody say Tarantino made Sin City?

These people had less involvement than Tarantino had in Sin City.

If you helped out with another film and still have your own, I think it should be fine to vote on the other films.

[luster]

All this talk is why they don't vote in real film festivals.
The ONLY way that really works is to have an unbiased, unaffiliated panel of judges who discuss the films and come to a consensus on the winners. But, even that's not "fair."

[TimurCivan]

i mean that at least sounds fair.

[TimurCivan]

if i sent my ballot like 2-3 days ago do i have to resend it?

[Kyle Stebbins]

Either way, more than 1 person taking part in a film and voting/not voring on it will still be unfair.

For instance, if there are 5 people who worked on one film, they all vote 10... everyone else only gets to vote on their film once... now THATS not fair. In the same regard, if those 5 people DON'T vote... then they are short 5 votes. -- Either way it is unfair if more than one person worked on a film. WHICH is why only the director should 1) get the prize and 2) not vote (or vote) for themselves.

And again, I still think it's petty to argue like this. I had fun, and I'm not relying on winning this fest to find my next meal.

[vidled]

All this talk is why they don't vote in real film festivals.

Waddausayin'? Horrorfest ain't real?? :)

Voting on film festival entries almost NEVER is done by film submitters; DVXuser is kinda unique there...well, there's others like it too of course, especially many online festivals.
But another option would of been to do the exact opposite; to have ONLY members vote who DIDN'T work on, nor submit a film.

I can somewhat see the logic in not allowing voting of one's own movie, although like Aram, I agree it was a little late for that announcement.

[MsManhattan]

The bottom line is you don't change the voting rules 48 hours before the vote is to be tallied. That seems a blatant attempt to sway things. And, again, if more than one DVXer worked on a film, then disallowing those people from voting -- or rating, if you prefer -- puts that film at more of a DISadvantage than the potential advantage allowing them to vote/rate could create. Even if a filmmaker managed to build a coalition of people who worked on their film, and each member of that crew decided to give it 10s across the board, then just call that another marketing strategy, and proactive marketing was ENCOURAGED in this fest (a new rule put into effect at the BEGINNING of the fest, not in the 11th hour). It's just another guerilla marketing tactic like trotting out BTS shots and teasers with your poster and pimping your thread. (And I submit it is unlikely that crew members would give a film 10s across the board -- even though I fully support the notion of giving your own film high marks if you want to). Finally, let's take crew members out of the picture and say only the filmmaker(s) listed as the submitting filmmaker couldn't vote... That still means that films like ours (5B), Bloody Mary, Rekindled and others lose two votes while films with only one submitting filmmaker gain an extra vote from the pair that couldn't vote on their own film.

Absolutely true that if this were run like a real film fest, none of us would be rating the films. But it's not. Like the Academy Awards, Emmys, Grammys, etc., the membership that is eligible to vote is free to vote for themselves, and that is the same practice that has been observed here. I am not angling to win, but I object to not being able to support my own work. That's just ludicrous and, to bring this full circle, not the standard that this fest started with. If this is to be made a rule for the future, fine, but without a doubt it is DEAD WRONG to institute such a big change at the voting deadline. If the Academy for Motion Picture Arts and Sciences tried to make a change like this in the 11th hour for the Oscar ballots, it would be the top story on every news network talk show.

[Jarred Land]

for the last fest, just so everyone knows, I never counted the filmmakers score in the tally.. so the rules never really changed, just Brandon made it sorta public.

and it doesnt matter if there was 5 or 10 people that worked on a film.. the votes get averaged across all votes of that film, not of all votes total.

It was changed because I noticed that people were teaming up on films, and having 4 people vote 10s for their movie out of 30 ballots did skew the results.

[MsManhattan]

for the last fest, just so everyone knows, I never counted the filmmakers score in the tally.. so the rules never really changed, just Brandon made it sorta public.

and it doesnt matter if there was 5 or 10 people that worked on a film.. the votes get averaged across all votes of that film, not of all votes total.

It was changed because I noticed that people were teaming up on films, and having 4 people vote 10s for their movie out of 30 ballots did skew the results.


This doesn't make sense to me, particularly that the rules of voting suddenly changed in the midst of tallying the ballots last time -- especially since it wasn't disclosed publicly at the time. Furthermore, since the inception of the DVX Fests, starting with the first one (Make a film around the theme "Do you ever feel like you're being watched?") filmmakers were told they COULD vote for their own films. So it seems a bit disingenuous to suggest it wasn't a rule change -- it just wasn't an announced rule change. But it seems that any logic on this issue is falling on deaf ears.

[mameragex]

BOY!!! I felt a trimble coming from this post! Got a lil worried till I saw Jarred popped in.

[Kyle Stebbins]

me too, mamerage. -- i agree with jarred, though.

[mameragex]

Yeah! He's like the GREAT WIZARD OF DVXUSER! lol :thumbup:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/8/8/160418/the%20wiz%20copy.jpg
Sorry....I couldn't help myself. No offince intended:Drogar-Evil(DBG):
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/%5Bimg%5Dhttp://www.fileden.com/files/2006/8/8/160418/the%20wiz%20copy.jpg%5B/img%5D

[Cynic821]

hey mameragex, honestly, i didnt like the movie as a movie, but you have a real talent with the effects and animation there, you should be proud of the artistic skills you have. Keep at it! I would like to see some other stuff you got.

ANyways, to stay on topic, my ballot is missing a few movies, i just couldnt find them to download. Mirrors went down, and the 1 mirror that is up is missing them as well. Also its impossible to guess the names of some of the files since some arent named entirely correctly. atleast im guessing they arent. Anyways, i did the best i could and only have 8 minutes left.

the few that i couldnt find, im sorry, so please dont count them as zeros when you tally them up, just dont count my average for those movies.

Ill write specifics in the email when i send you the ballot jarred. Thanks guys.

[Cynic821]

11:59pm PST

Ballot sent in! :)

Im always on time though, so shyea!

[Norm Sanders]

E-Mailed mine in at either 11:59 or Midnight as well. At least it went in seconds before a post I put up in another thread that stated 12:00am, so hopefully it's good ... however, then I read this that stated to not have scores in our film.

Sorry Jarred/Brandon ... I had read another thread that pretty much looked like everyone was throwing 10's across the board on theirs in hopes of them all canceling out? I'd never done that in any other fest previous to this, but didn't want to be at a disadvantage in this one if everyone else was doing the same. Oh well, over & done with.

Now I can just casually watch the few I've not gotten to yet & still at least comment on them.

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

I'd encourage anyone who's a hair behind to still send your ballots in.
Barry_S is in D.C. he probably won't look at these until miñana.
Worst case scenario he doesn't count your ballot.

[Brandon Rice]

Go for it... if you can, get your ballot in tonight!

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

Yeah I sent one in already incase it was a hard deadline and because people get so bent out of shape over everything, but I have like 7 films so I'm gonna send another and ask to have em swapped.

Can't see that it's not in everyone's best interest to have the largest sampling possible, so don't see how late ballots could hurt especially since we can't vote on our own films.

[Norm Sanders]

Still have at least 5+ to go ... I'm on a marathon to watch all I can now in hopes of being able to swap out the ballot. Only one so far am I really wishing I'd watched sooner, as it surprised me how good it was, considering I'd not heard about it before.

[Cynic821]

im glad my 5 hour marathon of shorts, diet rockstars, cigarettes and coors light is finally over. im beat.

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

got my 2nd almost complete ballot in about 45 min ago.
(couldn't find about 4)

[MsManhattan]

...and because people get so bent out of shape over everything,....

heh, coming from you, that has me ROLF ... oh the irony

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

haha, good, glad I could put a smile on your face :)