PDA

View Full Version : Pretentious



Matt Sconce
10-10-2006, 03:03 PM
I just wanted to cover something. I have been reading in other threads that some people think the quotes someone has on their banner makes them pretentious. I just wanted to discuss this briefly. These are responses from other people. A film maker, including them on their banner does not make them pretentious:
-characterized by assumption of dignity or importance. -making an exaggerated outward show; ostentatious.

They are simply happy with the reactions they are getting from viewers and want others to know what some people are thinking. Sometimes, when people see other people liked a film, they think "Well maybe I will take the time to see it."

To be Pretentious, the Film maker, would have to be agreeing with the statements and trumpeting their own glory (being ostentatious). Showing what other people thought, does not do this. The film maker is not declaring it to be true, just quoting others opinions.

It is ridiculous to hide great reviews at the fear others will think the film maker is pretentious for being happy about getting them. How many eggshells are we having to walk on when it has gotten to this?

Come on people.

Darkline
10-10-2006, 03:11 PM
hehe. you have to take such comments with a pinch of salt.

The way I saw it, im pretty new here (ish) and my film didnt have much exposure as it was a late entry compared to most. I've not chatted to many people on here before either, so not many people know who I am..... So I shamelessly needed to use the quotes to get some attention. Other people are putting up competitions about their films, prizes. Its all good marketing.

I actually don't like doing it. But of course I want as many people as possible to see my film and comment on it. I figure this - If you got a film in the fest then you have the right to milk it until it's a shrivled balloon. Isnt that the business we're in?

If i could have done an animated banner like Jack's I think thats tidier....

thartley
10-10-2006, 03:12 PM
I have to say, I've been very limited on time and have not been able to devote the necessary viewing time most of the horrorfest entries deserve. I've been torn between commenting on the few I've seen and not commenting on others. Is it fair? (Not that my opinion would matter all that much, haha!)

But had it not been for some of those comments in banners that I read, I would have missed out on some really GREAT entries. I'm not familiar with who submitted what, but I'm glad I paid attention to the banners.

:)

Darkline
10-10-2006, 03:16 PM
well as long as you view and vote - it will count in the end. I spent a whole weekend on here and i didnt have time to write reviews of all the films. I dont think anyone expects that.

But I looked at a poll for I think Sci-fest where it showed that a big chunk of people only watched 1-10 films. I thought if I dont advertise there isnt a chance people would watch mine as Im not one of the usual suspects in these fests.

thartley
10-10-2006, 03:18 PM
At one point, there was discussion of making the submissions anonymous (did we do that at any point? I'm old, cant remember) so that "the usual suspects" situation would not apply.

Kholi
10-10-2006, 03:19 PM
I'm almost convinced that PRETENTIOUS is the most mis-used word in "the industry".

I'd ignore it, if I were you. It's one of those words that people toss around to make themselves sound better-than.

Larry Rutledge
10-10-2006, 03:19 PM
As long as you keep them to a minimum (I don't want to scroll through a hundred comments in each person's sig line), I don't see how it is any different than a film putting comments from media sources on their posters/marketing material.

Darkline
10-10-2006, 03:22 PM
At one point, there was discussion of making the submissions anonymous (did we do that at any point? I'm old, cant remember) so that "the usual suspects" situation would not apply.

I guess that wouldnt work becasue of all the build-up to the fest and behind the scenes footage people post. Its gets people excited and I think it a good part of the festival too. A general promotion.

thartley
10-10-2006, 03:47 PM
I guess that wouldnt work becasue of all the build-up to the fest and behind the scenes footage people post. Its gets people excited and I think it a good part of the festival too. A general promotion.

That originally was not allowed and would actually disqualify your entry to hype it prior to voting. I think the ability to talk about your project and get people interested in what you are doing is a big piece of learning how to grease wheels. So it comes with the territory. Seemed to work out okay. :)

Charli
10-10-2006, 03:49 PM
Matt - I don't want to come off pretentious, I was working on shallow and
materialistic.

TheatreGuy
10-10-2006, 03:50 PM
I would like to comment here, not on the quotes in the banner because I think that is all legitimate promo and part of filmmaking. There are many of us who are new in this fest and want our films to be viewed. In a pool of 65 films... that is asking a lot of a viewer and a little promotion can go a long way to boost your visibility. I do wish, however, that I knew more about animated gifs and flash because I have felt selfish by taking up so much space in my sig.

(okay, I guess I DID want to comment there! :) )

But what I do want to comment on is the fact that I believe if you viewed someones work you should make a comment. Even a small one to give the filmmaker some kind of feedback. I've seen both detailed reviews and brief but honest comments and I believe either would be beneficial to the filmmaker.

There are many of us who are realistic and realize that a chance at a prize is a pipe-dream. But we take the time to make a film for:

a) the experience
b) to show our fellow dvxusers our work
c) and to receive feedback from the viewer to become better at this craft

And the feedback is so useful. I know that I myself, became so close to my project (having created it entirely on my own save for two appearance that I could not do myself) that the feedback has been enlightening. It has forced me to recognize things that I couldn't see.

I have learned a great deal just hearing some of the comments. And the comments that are repeated are reinforced in my head as something that I need to pay better attention to in the future.

I know that it is difficult to watch and comment on 65 films. It has taken up a lot of my time. But I feel that I owe it to the filmmaker and it helps me to have to articulate some of my reactions for the film.

Just my 2 cents.

thartley
10-10-2006, 04:02 PM
TheatreGuy, you are so right, of course. On all points. I'm taking the time to post here, so I ought to take the time to post my comments. Its really hard for me to be negatively critical of someone's work because I know how hard (understatement!) it is to pull off a production with limited crew/cast. But I also know without the feedback, its hard to grow into your dreams.

*sigh* My apologies... comments forthcoming.

Matthew B. Moore
10-10-2006, 04:23 PM
Save the promotion and hoo-ha until you are trying to sell. This is a competion. One shouldn't have to put reviews on a piece durring a competition. Scene stills are cool because they show the quality of the work. All of us are looking for ways to drive the quality. Posting reviews is useless. The tread alone works just fine. The film should speak for itself. Let it do it's thing. Let it be it's own hype.
Not to say it isn't allowed, but it does tend to cheapen the experience.

Kholi
10-10-2006, 04:26 PM
Save the promotion and hoo-ha until you are trying to sell. This is a competion. One shouldn't have to put reviews on a piece durring a competition. Scene stills are cool because they show the quality of the work. All of us are looking for ways to drive the quality. Posting reviews is useless. The tread alone works just fine. The film should speak for itself. Let it do it's thing. Let it be it's own hype.
Not to say it isn't allowed, but it does tend to cheapen the experience.

Did you tell Spidey that? Just making sure it's all fair. y'know.

jpbankesmercer
10-10-2006, 04:36 PM
O.K. I got on the boat and added the quotes. I’m proud to have finally made something worth talking about. I've been learning how to direct for the last five years, nothing else I’ve made has got anywhere near the same reaction as ‘Broken Circle.’

To be honest before I made this film I had almost given up. Talking crew into making things that never saw the light of day. Reading books, shooting everything for free and getting ripped. Blah, blah blah.

I was at the point when I thought, come off it, you’ve been doing this for a while now are you really going to make the family suffer anymore? Luckily my wife has backed me all the way, (she’s the dark haired one in the film), but if I’m really honest, I could see something in her eyes that said ‘I love you but I’m just not sure anymore’ even my mum is like “So when are things going to start happening for you?” Talk about pressure. Entering this festival has got my confidence back, it’s done more for my self-esteem than any single moment during the past five years. Am I afraid to shout about it? Hell no.

J.P.

Matthew B. Moore
10-10-2006, 04:38 PM
Did you tell Spidey that? Just making sure it's all fair. y'know.

I don't control Spidey. He can do what he wants. Perhaps he thought he had too.
Filmmaking on this level should be pure. You can check my posts, I'm no hippocrate. You can ask Spidey what a purist I am. I make film. I love film. I don't give a damn about the rest.

I find it funny that I can compliment the hell out of someones film and still get blasted for it.

If you will revisit the thread, you will find that I told JDS that his film didn't need the promotion, it can stand on it's own just fine.

My reviews are honest. I don't kiss ass and I don't say things just to hurt peoples feelings or make them look bad.

Kholi
10-10-2006, 04:39 PM
I don't even know who's film you commented on. Who's blasting who?

Now I'm confused.

Matthew B. Moore
10-10-2006, 04:45 PM
So am I. Your proir comment did come off as if you wanted an explaination. Yes?

Kholi
10-10-2006, 04:47 PM
So am I. Your proir comment did come off as if you wanted an explaination. Yes?

No?

I just wanted to know if you realized that your production partner had also been listing reviews. But, you made a valid point--

You can't control what he does. Just wanted everyone to be fair about it. Even though it's such a small, unimportant thing.

I didn't even know you were reviewing anyones entries so I had no idea what the heck you were typing about.

Matthew B. Moore
10-10-2006, 04:54 PM
You see it as small and unimportant (like a fly turd), I see it as crap that is not needed (You know, a small smudge of fly turd on a clean window). Kind of the same, I guess, yet it spawned this thread.

Funny - why wouldn't I be reviewing entries?


No?

I just wanted to know if you realized that your production partner had also been listing reviews. But, you made a valid point--

You can't control what he does. Just wanted everyone to be fair about it. Even though it's such a small, unimportant thing.

I didn't even know you were reviewing anyones entries so I had no idea what the heck you were typing about.

Barry_Green
10-10-2006, 04:55 PM
At one point, there was discussion of making the submissions anonymous (did we do that at any point? I'm old, cant remember) so that "the usual suspects" situation would not apply.
We did indeed do it that way for the first few fests. I thought it was great, people commented on the films themselves without having to worry about whether they were making friends or enemies; nobody could "take it personally" because we didn't know who we were referencing.

However...


I guess that wouldnt work becasue of all the build-up to the fest and behind the scenes footage people post. Its gets people excited and I think it a good part of the festival too.

Yes, this time we tried something different -- actively allowing and encouraging hype and promotion. And I think it really worked out well overall, right? I mean, there was a level of anticipation that we haven't seen before, and frankly I think the quality of entries this time around is heads and shoulders above any prior fest. Heck, without promotion we wouldn't have had the whole Movie Master phenomenon (er, wait, I'm sure many would think that was a good thing...) but hey, you get my point.

Kholi
10-10-2006, 04:56 PM
You see it as small and unimportant (like a fly turd), I see it as crap that is not needed (You know, a small smudge of fly turd on a clean window). Kind of the same, I guess, yet it spawned this thread.

Funny - why wouldn't I be reviewing entries?

I think you're reading way too into my text, here. I don't know why you wouldn't be reviewing entries--

I just said that I didn't even know you were reviewing them.

Matthew B. Moore
10-10-2006, 05:05 PM
Ok. Um, yes I am reviewing the entries. I like to when I can find the time. I do enjoy being entertained.


I think you're reading way too into my text, here. I don't know why you wouldn't be reviewing entries--

I just said that I didn't even know you were reviewing them.

Kholi
10-10-2006, 05:09 PM
Ok. Um, yes I am reviewing the entries.

Yes, that's good for you, Matthew. Please, leave everyone with beneficial no-holds-barred information from the B. Moore better side of things.

P.S. I'm not referring to the movie starring Hulk Hogan, either.

Matthew B. Moore
10-10-2006, 05:19 PM
That is all they will get. You too, player-pimp. I hope you can handle it if I am honest.

Yes, that's good for you, Matthew. Please, leave everyone with beneficial no-holds-barred information from the B. Moore better side of things.

P.S. I'm not referring to the movie starring Hulk Hogan, either.

Kholi
10-10-2006, 05:21 PM
That is all they will get. You too, player-pimp. I hope you can handle it if I am honest.

I didn't enter Candy Gram. I'll link you to the post with valid reasons, if need be.

But, I'm totally open to taking the harshest criticism, in any case. I've had it from all ways with different kinds of rusty razors. So, when I do finally get into it, I hope to see your comments, suggestions, and insight there.

Matthew B. Moore
10-10-2006, 05:32 PM
Don't mistake me for a man of "rusty razors". I call it as I see it after so many years of dealing with independent filmmaking. Information can some times be a bitch to swallow. I also have dealt with tons of criticism and have for many years. How can you avoid it, especially after 25 films. The people who I thank and remember are those who didn't hold anything back. It has made all of the difference. For that reason, I choose to say the things I say.
I promise you that when I do see your flim, this discussion we have just had will have nothing to do with my opinion. Every one starts at "0". Even Spidey.


I didn't enter Candy Gram. I'll link you to the post with valid reasons, if need be.

But, I'm totally open to taking the harshest criticism, in any case. I've had it from all ways with different kinds of rusty razors. So, when I do finally get into it, I hope to see your comments, suggestions, and insight there.

Kholi
10-10-2006, 05:37 PM
Don't mistake me for a man of "rusty razors". I call it as I see it after so many years of dealing with independent filmmaking. Information can some times be a bitch to swallow. I also have dealt with tons of criticism and have for many years. How can you avoid it, especially after 25 films. The people who I thank and remember are those who didn't hold anything back. It has made all of the difference. For that reason, I choose to say the things I say.
I promise you that when I do see your flim, this discussion we have just had will have nothing to do with my opinion. Every one starts at "0". Even Spidey.

It shouldn't. Was it a bad conversation? Sometimes things fly right over my head. Especially when I'm awaiting the oven to beep so that I can broil the hell out of my Filet Mignon.

Seriously, honest criticism is a good thing. I'm glad someone has the guts to do it; I try.

Matthew B. Moore
10-10-2006, 05:43 PM
It shouldn't. Was it a bad conversation? Sometimes things fly right over my head. Especially when I'm awaiting the oven to beep so that I can broil the hell out of my Filet Mignon.

Seriously, honest criticism is a good thing. I'm glad someone has the guts to do it; I try.

Yeah, that and my snappyness don't win me many friends on this site, but I'm glad we reached a common ground.

Not a bad conversation, just a discusion in the middle of confusion and misinformation. Either way, I think we understand each other on the real points.

Word

Kholi
10-10-2006, 05:44 PM
That's what's up. I'll send you some steak to commemorate this moment.

Matthew B. Moore
10-10-2006, 05:48 PM
I see Movie Master's doings as a big joke, which it was. It was almost beautiful. His is the funnest thread to read out of all of them. The joke works.

The game should remain pure.

Actually, f*%k it, this is taking too much time away from my edit.

What ever happens will happen, regardless.


We did indeed do it that way for the first few fests. I thought it was great, people commented on the films themselves without having to worry about whether they were making friends or enemies; nobody could "take it personally" because we didn't know who we were referencing.

However...



Yes, this time we tried something different -- actively allowing and encouraging hype and promotion. And I think it really worked out well overall, right? I mean, there was a level of anticipation that we haven't seen before, and frankly I think the quality of entries this time around is heads and shoulders above any prior fest. Heck, without promotion we wouldn't have had the whole Movie Master phenomenon (er, wait, I'm sure many would think that was a good thing...) but hey, you get my point.

Norm Sanders
10-10-2006, 06:23 PM
Interesting how this thread went from one person's comment about promoting quotes in the banners to a mass discussion between two users, lol.

I think if someone has a tendency to be "snappy" that PM'ing could be wisely used to carry on the conversation? That way, it can leave the thread to the original topic, and communicating (or lack thereof) can be carried on & worked out one-on-one.

Back to the quotes thing ... I've not done it with my signature, but I think it's a cool idea only because this fest was so centered around hype & promotion, why not carry it on all the way up to the end of voting? As THartley even stated, it enticed her to see films she many not have watched otherwise, which shows they actually had a purpose & effect.

For the few users I've seen who've commented about how hard it is to read the threads with them in the signatures, maybe they're just on whacky monitors, but it's not caused a stitch of trouble for me in reading the threads.

Inexistence
10-10-2006, 08:02 PM
I've used pretentious in one of my reviews... I think it was in the "Killer Sound"
thread.

edit: I'm not referencing the comedic short "Killer Sound" just my comment in the thread.

Now mind you that this is just one man's opinion but, I think viewer
comments in sigs works on the basic level of hype only. Hype is hype nomatter
what. Just like bad publicity is just as good as good publicity. It's just a hook to
gather more eyeballs and it serves it's purpose well. I understand the similarities
of promo in the motion picture industry to it's use in Horrorfest but, this is why
it all comes off as superfluous to me.

For me though, it's just as ridiculous to hide bad reviews at the expense of being
happy that one has recieved favorable words. That doesn't mean that one should
be scared to put them in their sig.

Just the same as it is in the movie industry, for me anyways, I hate reading the
comments on a film on the side of a bus, billboard, poster, magazine ad, tv trailer,
etc. We are all bombarded with advertising everyday that it's all so uncomfortable
to me now. It feels sort of like intrusive advertising... like popups that get in the
way of reading a website. In this case, getting in the way of reviewing a horrorfest
entry that one would like to see without being tainted by other comments first.

VersuS
10-10-2006, 10:22 PM
I did it coz I didnt think about it til I saw others do it and seeing how the very few people who reviewed my work said some nice things, i felt the need to put the on my sig. Why?
A) to see them myself, as an artist (not filmmaker, artist and I feel that I am an artist long before I got a camera,art is general) as an artist I feel the need to feed my needs on my own and not wait for others, if I dont give the necessary drive to my ego and soul, no one will

B)coz it's a near marketing plan, not that it did any good to me anyway, and someone said that he posted reviews on his sig coz he was a late entry (Darkline I believe) and he was behind some of the others who had hype already going on...still...I was here August1st, every day working my butt with my threads, grabs, talking,sharing and still I got less reviews from some late entries, and that is ...I dont know why that is but still you got to do what you got to do

C)Finally I did it coz I send my friends and family links to this place and they go 'wow, nice reviews, its like the movies' and of course there's a big smile on my face...so shoot me if you will officer albrecht (person who finds this movie wins something special)

Jack Daniel Stanley
10-11-2006, 12:12 AM
...this time we tried something different -- actively allowing and encouraging hype and promotion...

This is my understanding and I think its a golden opportunity to practice the skills other than great filmmaking which are necessary for a filmmaklng career. DVXuser has become a film school of sorts for some of us and this semmesters curriculum includes pimping.

It's a part of the contest this time just like stealing bases in baseball.

Also, I enjoy seeing ingenuity such as displayed by the Black Angel team and Brandon and others with various contests or journal entries etc. To me that just makes it all more fun and I am impressed and consider it a challenge to rise to.

I also enjoy seeing the quotes in other people's banners and knowing that everyone's film has been well recieved by someone and usually a few someones. I like seeing that Ted, or Edgen, or Versus, or whomever is doing well and having a good fest.

And none of that is to say I didn't start the whole quote thing to garner as much positve buzz for my film as humanly possible - you're darn right. This fest is VERY competitive. It's almost ANYBODY's ballgame, and I can sit back and be passive and see what happens or I can drive to the endzone as hard as I can until the buzzer goes off.

Why wait to practice your hype skills when you are actually trying to make a sale, when this contest has been officially designated a pimp zone? It's like saying don't user your layup in college or highschool ball. Wait until you are in the Pro's?

The fests here have outgrown that pure filmmaking experience of Zombie fest, and making pimping officially part of the deal has just elleviated the growing pains of the last two fests and I think made for a more supportive fest, actually, as we were more invested in the success of each other's films due to the early threads, AND the open pimping policy provideds POSITIVE proactive rather than reactive outlets for healthy competitiveness.

Ralph Oshiro
10-11-2006, 02:37 AM
So whaddya think, Barry? Will promotion be allowed on future DVXfests? I really enjoyed the promotion aspect of HorrorFest. It was really helpful, morale-wise, to able to type somthing about your short, or post some stills when you felt things weren't moving along as quickly or as well as you would've liked on your short.

Ralph Oshiro
10-11-2006, 02:56 AM
PRETENSE + PROMOTION:

What are we all talking about here? I really liked the promotion aspect of HorrorFest! I think the quotes are fun, too. In fact, it made me think to try to get real movie reviewers to see my short, and try to get quotes from them! I think the more pimping the better. I stooped to almost every cheap trick in the book to populate my thread views. Mind you, I didn't stoop to mindless "bumping" for no good reason--I think I invested a lot of resources and assets into my thread so that the viewer got something out of it, too.

But so much in this life is about tooting your own horn. In this impression-competitive, media-rich, 1-second-attention-span, YouTube-iPod-Sidekick, pop-culture world, you really gotta scream loudly to get noticed in this town!

So whatever you got, I'm all for it. You got contests? Good! You got girls in bikinis showing up in your thread all over the place [CLICK HERE (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=63176&page=9) for RUNWAY bikini pictures thread] for no particular reason other than to get people to download and view your movie? I'm all for it! Anything and everything--give it all you got! Or no one may ever know you were even here!

VersuS
10-11-2006, 03:10 AM
Amen to that last paragraph Rez!

TheatreGuy
10-11-2006, 05:00 AM
Rezfactor, that was classic! Love it!

I do hope that this promotion aspect of the festivals can continue.

It has felt like a bit of a course in filmmaking. Make it, Upload it, Sell it.

A lot of lessons all in one. And, for me, it has been fun! A lot of fun.

If this isn't suppode to be fun, then why exactly are we doing this? I don't need more "Work!"

VersuS
10-11-2006, 05:14 AM
To add something here. People who devoted their spare time and more in making these films, people who spent from hundreds of $ to just 10$ , they need to SELL their products even in a contest like HorrorFest. Why? Because they deserve the attention and the recognition or guidance that comes through the reviews and comments. No marketing, no 'selling' of any kind, sounds like we could submit a thing that we did with a miniDV of 200$ and get on with it. But here are people who own a DVX100 or an HVX, to me the cost when i purchased my DVX100 was 4000euros...which is more than 4000$...things are more expensive here in Greece I can tell you! So I may know that I am not really good at this point with my skills and that my talent may need a lot of polishing, but I took this contest/fest seriously enough and I want to know what is going on with what I did. So if I need to get a big sig I ll do it. It made me work with Photoshop and that was a nice motivation to use it more extensively. If I need to make BTS I ll do it, coz its fun and makes you work more on editing and stuff. So selling your thing can make you a better artist! Nobody sold their stuff in a non-artistic way. People WORKED with their marketing efforts.

Matthew B. Moore
10-11-2006, 08:02 AM
All of the above make good points. As I read through them this morning, I wondered how important this issue was one way or the other. Looking over the thread, I noticed the mass of extra stuff under every ones name, and again, I twitched with discomfort.

I love the pictures, they work and add a cool element to the overall sleekness of the site. The quotes are just...crap. You are over selling something that doesn't need to be over sold.

This may sound mean, but why should any one care about what Mr. So & So said, unless it is a discussion in the thread along with all of the other comments. The judgement should remain pure until until after the comp., then you can blast the hell out of it all you want. This isn't like going to Cine Quest or Slam Dance. You don't have to sway people one way or the other. You don't have to draw a crowd. All of the films are up for viewing and should all be viewed starting from "0". If not you give into the idea of "hype" which is fundamentally "bullshite". Before you know it, HYPE will be in the forefront, then you will have to dodge your way through the hype, just to get to the good stuff. It's close enough already.

Maybe it is a method that is too close to the Hollywood machine for my taste. All I know is, when I check a poster for quotes about a film, the only ones that I take seriously are the ones that say "winner of".

Let your skills speak for themselves.

TimurCivan
10-11-2006, 08:07 AM
I think the promotion is great. Its a part of the bussiness. Something we all must learn if you want to do ANYthing in a professional space in the film industry.

Inexistence
10-11-2006, 08:15 AM
Tim, point taken but, isn't that up to the ad agency and suits? Unless one wants
full creative control of every aspect of the film itself which is good!

I'm not fighting against it's usage here but, I just wanted to voice another opinion.

TimurCivan
10-11-2006, 08:18 AM
Tim, point taken but, isn't that up to the ad agency and suits? Unless one wants
full creative control of every aspect of the film itself which is good!

I'm not fighting against it's usage here but, I just wanted to voice another opinion.


Well thats true. but the advertising and promotion is going to get out htere somehow, no matterwhat. on this small scale its up to us to do it.

Honestly, i skipped over Halfway, until i saw the "reviews". then i went back watched it, and loved it!

Kyle Stebbins
10-11-2006, 08:26 AM
I think the promotion is great. Its a part of the bussiness. Something we all must learn if you want to do ANYthing in a professional space in the film industry.

spoken like a true scholar. -- I AGREE!!!!

Jack Daniel Stanley
10-11-2006, 11:06 AM
I guess Slam Dance is different from Sundance. I sill have A Buffalo 66 Hat and Scarf handed to me by Vincent Gallo (not an ad agency) as well as Blood Guts Bullets and Octane stickers from 1998!

True Hats and Stickers don't say anything about the movie necessarily, unless they have quotes on them, but the goal is the same.

Buy and read Chris Gore's Film Festival survival guide. There's tons of stuff about publicity at film festivals that is the EMERGING filmmaker's responsibility 100%.

Even if you have agency representation from the get go, if you are not famous and don't have some other hook associated with your film you have to do your share of being your own in house ad agency.

Once you are making American Beauty, then yes it's someone else's responsibility, and at that point you will be REQUIRED to participate at least on some level in the marketing campaign that someone else has designed.

Even if you can afford to hire a marketing firm, there's no wat you could afford to hire them to be your on the ground people at the festival, that will have to be you and whomever you with you if anyone.

The BROKEN DVD is a prime example. They didn't even have a film at Sundance, but they went and stuffed their DVD into Roger Ebert's hands while standing inline for a film there. He was less than bananas about the movie but went out of his way to give them a good paragraph of useable quotes to emblazon their website and DVD jackets with. Point of the story is not that the quotes in our signatures have as much meaning as a quote from Ebert, but that that review and the 10's of thousands of DVD's these guys have moved online and their feature deal would have never happened if they, themselves, the filmmakers, weren't the biggest marketing whores of all time - and I mean that in a good way.

jpbankesmercer
10-11-2006, 11:17 AM
What's a quote from you worth Jack? :)

Geoff_R
10-11-2006, 11:40 AM
...Let your skills speak for themselves.

I second that. It seems like almost everyone is now using quotes and it seems like overkill to me only because I am seeing them so many times... Sure, movie posters and advertisements carry quotes but we only see those a few times before the movie comes out. Imagine if every time you turned the corner, you were hit with those same quotes, over and over and over... Since they're tagged to a person's signature, we're seeing them 10, 20, 30 times a day. I get irritated on myspace when they do those blitz advertisings for a movie or show and I'm seeing the same bit commercial over and over while perusing through pages. It's kind of like that; we're seeing the same quote or series of quotes way too many times in one day.

Jack Daniel Stanley
10-11-2006, 12:07 PM
What's a quote from you worth Jack? :)
A quote from me is worth jack.

TheatreGuy
10-11-2006, 12:13 PM
LOL! Very witty!

Jack Daniel Stanley
10-11-2006, 12:14 PM
All of the above make good points. As I read through them this morning, I wondered how important this issue was one way or the other. Looking over the thread, I noticed the mass of extra stuff under every ones name, and again, I twitched with discomfort. I agree they are getting a tad big and bold and outside the size of allowed spec.s
I guess its being allowed because its to much to police and perhaps there is a bit of laissez faire festival spirit in the air.

...Sure, movie posters and advertisements carry quotes but we only see those a few times before the movie comes out. Imagine if every time you turned the corner, you were hit with those same quotes, over and over and over... I think some leeway can be afforded during a festival.
I did the Edinbourgh Fringe Festivalk in 97 - (worlds largest theatre festival 1700 shows in 22 days with 1100 shows a day) and there is no such thing as a lampost or phone pole during that time as they are ground to sky postered and flyered. It's really rediculous and expensive and exhausting to try and keep up with as a participant. As a way of life -- no way -- but during a special event, mildly annoying but a necessary evil, at least there.

Norm Sanders
10-11-2006, 01:51 PM
Advertising is advertising, IMO. I've seen multiple posts now stating that they wouldn't have watched a particular film, had it not been for the quotes.

Sheesh, I'm feeling the pressure to add some myself, as we've even had some good comments in our thread ... but I just don't have the energy right now. :) Simply BECAUSE there are so many of them now, and the fact that I do see the same ones 20-30 times a day, they become part of the background & my brain is quite adapt to be able to filter through them ... like they're not even there. So I'm not sure why others are having such issues with them.

And how do we tell a studio that they're advertising TOO much and it's annoying us? Sheesh, I'm SO sick of seeing SPIDERMAN advertisements at McDonalds, on my cereal boxes, on the TV commercials, in the opening trailers at the movie theater, in the news papers, in posters at various places, on the sides of buses, on top of taxis, on billboards, on the sides of buildings (and the list goes on, and on, and on) ...

How dare they spend all that time, money, and resources to encourage me to see THEIR movie?!

Sure, movies should be good enough that word of mouth spreads, but that's kind of rediculous to hope for in such a short festival, and it's simply not how business is typically operated in the real world. While word of mouth is truly the BEST advertising, and carries the most weight compared to any print/media advertisement, it can take a while for that word to spread ... so when we're crunched for such a short time, with SO many films to watch, and some folks that got a late start into the fest & are possibly not well known around here, why NOT let them post quotes, banners, etc.???

For those who want to be purists just for the sake of making a film, then just make the film. Don't have banners, don't hype it, etc. ... just hope that someone will take the time to watch your film, knowing nothing about whether others like it or not ... then hope that there's enough time that they'll comment in the thread or tell someone else about it, etc.

Bottom line, no matter what the scenario is, there will ALWAYS be a minority who doesn't like it. So for the sake of the festival, community, etc., we should go with the majority. I personally could care less either way ... but I do think it's fun, and has proven to be a VERY useful tool in getting some users to see specific films that would not have otherwise. That in itself is enough reason for me to want to allow and/or encourage the quotes.