DVCPRO 50 settings

[Jason Ramsey]

Alrighty, I have yet to film anything in dvcpro 50, but I was looking at the project settings, and only see dvcpro 50 59.94i. So, if I am filming dvcpro 50 24pa, for example, is that the setting I am going to use, or am I not seeing the proper setting?

Thanks,
Jason

[bhiga]

24pa DVCPRO 50 is still technically 59.94i, there are just flags that tell a 24p-aware decoder which fields to use/ignore.

However, your project output determines what your file/video output is, so if you want a DVCPRO 50 24pa output, then you'll need a 24pa project, though it doesn't have to be DVCPRO 50 in particular. In fact, the project settings are technically format-agnostic, save for the Render codec.

Brandon

[Jason Ramsey]

Wait, so you are saying that I will be fine with dvcpro 50 59.94i, right? Or, that I would be better off going with something like 720 23.98pa?

If I record a dvcpro 50 24pa and cut in the dvcpro 50 project setting will it handle the advanced pulldown properly. For example, I then render out to mpeg2... I won't then see interlacing in the frames, right?

Oh yeah, when I edit a 1080 pa project, is it normal to see some interlacing when I am previewing from the timeline? It looks like when I output an avi or qt file, I am not seeing the interlacing. This is what I should be expecting, right?

And while I am here... :) When I output to dvd or as an mpeg 2. The file extension is m2p, which doesn't seem to be compatible with any of the dvd burning software on my comp. I need to get some decent dvd authoring software, but what is the deal with that? Is there a way to get a straight mpeg2. I have used the burn to dvd option within pce, but the dvd seems to have more compatibility problems with dvd players than is normal.

Thanks, and I am really loving the real time p2 workflow :)

Jason

[bhiga]

If the intent is to get 24p output, then you'll need to be in a 24p (23.976p) project. It doesn't have the be the same resolution as the source (remember that EDIUS will up/down scale as necessary), but the framerate must be what you intend for output.

It's normal to see some interlacing on the computer screen, you can change the Overlay setting between ODD, EVEN and FRAME to get one field or both.

.m2p is the standard file extension for an MPEG-2 Program Stream. Unfortunately a lot of DVD authoring programs expect .mp2, which was really already used for MPEG-1 Layer II audio (.mp3 is MPEG-1 Layer III audio), or sometimes .mpg which is used for MPEG-1 System streams (audio+video).

You can simply rename the file if you need to. It's a standard MPEG-2 Program Stream.

Brandon

[Jason Ramsey]

Ok. another question. If I film something in dvcpro50. I film it for a news program. I want to keep 16:9 aspect ratio and have it display letter boxed on a 4:3 timeline, so I can use the letterboxing for other information (logos, etc.)
My question, since dvcpro50 is 59.94 and doesn't have any kind of pulldown removal for p or pa shooting, what is that going to do to my footage? If I shoot 24pa? Or 60p? I assume 60p would be ok. What about 30p?
Does that make sense. I want to use the dvcpro50 project settings for the 4:2:2 color space, and I can't obviously use a dvcprohd setting for a 4:3 timeline. What are my options for this?
I know that EDIUS automatically letter/pillar boxes as necessary, which I love. I am more concerned about is shooting in one of the progressive settings, and then editing on a 59.94i timeline that doesn't have any kind of p or pa support.
On a side note, is it safe to say that Edius doesn't support dvcpro50 p, or pa fully? The advantage of shooting dvcpro50 for standard def is the color space, but if I have to use a dvcpro hd setting to maintain the color space, that defeats the purpose, likewise if I have to shoot in some other sd setting and lose that color space. What am I not seeing.
Thanks much,
Jason

[bhiga]

In a 59.94i project, 30p, 60p and 24pa should all look fine.

The 30p footage will be split into fields, and will "look" 30p. Motion will not be as smooth as 59.94i/60i footage.

The 60p footage will be split into fields and should be indistinguishable from 59.94i/60i native footage as it's just losing a field from each frame.

The 24pa footage will have repeated fields as necessary and will "look" 24p. Motion will not be as smooth as 59.94i/60i footage or even 30p footage.

So, you probably want to shoot 59.94i or 60p for your core material.

As for the project settings, ignore any format references in the project options. All you're concerned with is the frame resolution, frame rate and aspect ratio.

If your output is going to be 4:3 SD, then choose an 4:3 SD project setting.

The important thing to remember here is that EDIUS simply decompresses the source footage, then puts it into the project's resolution and framerate space. It doesn't convert the footage to the project resolution/framerate then put it in the project.

Or in more visible terms, putting an HD clip in an SD project still retains the clip's original resolution in operations, meaning that you can zoom into a SD-sized portion of the HD clip and it won't be fuzzy because the original pixels are still available. In other words you can take a 720x480 piece of a 1920x1080 clip and it'll still be sharp.

The same applies to colorspace, which is why an HDV clip in an SD project in EDIUS can look better than the same clip converted to DV by the camcorder. The original HDV clip has more color samples to work with. Helps a lot for keying in particular.

Brandon

[Jason Ramsey]

Ok, great. Makes sense. So, I am going to retain the 4:2:2 color space, etc, regardless of the project settings I choose then, right?
Though, I wouldn't need to do that it seems. EDIUS is handling pa removal, etc regardless of the project setting I am choosing, correct? It is just making it work within the 59.94i in the dvcpro50 case, right?
I just want to clarify, that in the case of dvcpro50, if I shoot in any of the progressive settings, and edit with a dvcpro50 project setting... I will or will not see signs of interlacing on final output. Or, would that be a case where I needed to choose a setting that had progressive "support"... or can I just choose non-interlaced in the procoder wizard on output?
Sorry, most of it makes sense :) Progressive, and HD are new worlds for me
Thanks
Jason

[bhiga]

EDIUS's "working space" is 4:2:2 (though in some processes it may be a larger colorspace) as project frame size and rate.

Yes, EDIUS will do what needs to be done to make clips that aren't at project frame rate play back at project frame rate. In the case of 24pa footage, technically it still contains 60i samples, so EDIUS can just take those 60i samples as-is.

If you're in an interlaced project and output interlaced, you'll get interlacing.

If you're in an interlaced project and output progressive, you might get interlacing artifacts.
The easiest way to avoid this is to simply put the project in another sequence and apply the Antiflicker filter to the clip.

If you're in a progressive project and output progressive, you shouldn't get interlacing.

I think you're on the right track... :)

Brandon

[Jason Ramsey]

Ok. sounds good and thanks. I'll tinker around and see what I get over the next few days.
thanks a lot,
Jason

oops, 720pn in a dvcpro 50 timeline, output to progressive. That is a might get interlacing artifacts?

Jason