Consumer camcorder with DOF adapter...

[illacov]

Any suggestions?? This is a side question from the other post...

CHEAP is the word here...

Also as the Go35's developer mentioned, you would need a rail support system for the DOF adapter....

What are guys going to suggest???

Make me eat humble pie here...I've spoken to the people at the film schools here and the A/V specialists and town and the're clueless about this.

Help me out here..

Peace
Illumination

[PaPa]

what exactly is the question? what camera to buy, what adapter to buy? Both?

[Alex.Flory]

I think as his title suggest, he is looking for a camcorder with adaptor built in.

[bklyndv]

I think he's asking: what consumer camcorder in the $400-600 range would you suggest he get for use with an adapter? I might have the range off...

[TimurCivan]

Anyhtign that has a lens ring size of 37mm cause you can get step up rings real easy at that size.

[illacov]

yes, if i had to get a consumer camcorder in the 400 to 600 dollar range what would you suggest...Im going to use this theoretically with a DOF adapter.

I might need rails...

Illumination

On a side note I got offered a Sony DCR PC110 for $375.00 sound like a good idea??
Its not a 3 CCD camera, but I read alot of good reaviews on it. It does have 37mm lens ring size.

[TimurCivan]

fo 400$ youre not gonna get anyhting 3ccd, so if the machine is in good shape go for it.

[illacov]

One of the users on here apparently uses a Panasonic GS300 (3 CCD) with a DOF adapter.

The GS300 is around 400 bucks NEW on a few sites and no Im not going to use bestpricecamera.com or whoever that is.

My guess is that Ill use the Go35 standard with the GS300. This seems to be the most cost effective method.

The thing that was nuts to me was that I've read alot of people use rail systems with these DOF adapters and yet this guy had his DOF adapter, which was HUGE on his GS300 with no support system in place, maybe he used his hand??

His test footage was pretty sweet, however he was only using his prototype DOF adapter so his GG changed since he made the footage.

Here's the board members demo of his rig...


http://hishamkhalifa.com/?p=45

his username is hisham I believe ??

Thoughts suggestions??
BTW if his image could get a wee bit sharper (Probably has or could)Im sold....Ive got 400 bucks burning a hole in my pocket right now.

Peace
Illumination

[Toenis]

I`ve got quite good results with GS150 and Canon EE-S screen and our CINEDOF vibrating screen holder. You can see a casual shot here >> http://www.cinedof.com/test/sunset_f2_8_deinterlaced.avi
All other vids in that http://www.cinedof.com/test/ (http://www.cinedof.com/test/sunset_f2_8_deinterlaced.avi) folder are made with tiny GS150 except for those with HVX200 prefix.

By the way the smaller GS series with 37mm lens thread cann`t support even the tiniest DOF adaptor with lens attached so one must use at least some kind of support plate or you`ll ruin your camera`s plastic filter threads over the time.

Feel free to ask any questions.

Cheers,
T

[illacov]

Ok so they can't support the weight of a DOF adapter with lens attached..

What about supporting their OWN weight via the threads?? Is that too much for them as well???

I think you're going to say no and I believe you.

The thing im thinking is if you check my other post I have a Minolta SR bellows in my possession which takes lenses and camera body on opposite sides of the bellows.

The only thing is the bellows attaches to a tripod, which means that if I attach a camera to the opposite side then the GS body camera would be suspended in air meaning that it would be held up by its threads screwed into the macro or step up ring etc....


So I need something to support both the camera body (GS 300) and the bellows....SO maybe a sheet of metal?? Or a strip of wood with both screwed into it? And this strip of wood would screw into a tripod plate??

Any thoughts??

Peace
Illumination

[Toenis]

Oh, yes I saw your post about the bellows.
I think that if you suspend the GS body it will be many times better than suspending everything else from it`s body. I would suggest that if you can get an aluminium "u" or the really simple "_" profile and the threads of your tripod or mounting plate screw are long enough you will do just fine.
If it doesn`t reach your bellows fixing threads then use something like this:

http://www.cinedof.com/img/longer_tripod_screw.jpg

It has female threading underneath it so you`ll still be able to fix it onto a tripod.
And remember that any support plate would be better than no plate at all.

Best regards,
T

[illacov]

Tell me what that piece is called in the picture you posted???

Is that something you only sell??

Also I understand you mentioned the aluminum U, but what is the "_" what is that piece called??

Im not very good with metal pieces, however I'm guessing that you would attach it like so??


Bellows->Adapter-GG-Step up ring- GS300
____________________________________ (Aluminum "U" or "_"???)
T.POD Screw T.POD plate T.POD Screw

Something like this I suppose???

Here's a question for you...Would I have to construct a mount (block of wood??) for the camcorder to rest on since the bellows is constructed for a suspended camera???

Without taking any measuremeants I can see that the bottom of the camcorder may not extend down far enough to be flush with the Aluminum U, so I would use the wood or would I just use that screw you showed???

I think if I can solve this part of the puzzle then this DOF adapter build is almost done!

Oh yeah, what's your opinion on the use of condensers??

I see that the focusing screen you recommend frees you up from extra optics??

Maybe I need to incorporate your vibrating adapter???

Hmmm..

please add some more helpful comments my friend.

Peace
Illumination

[DerrickTempleton]

I suggest you save your money and find a friend with a nice camera.

[illacov]

I suggest you save your money and find a friend with a nice camera.

This was an awesome comment you made here. :zombie_smiley:

I take it you feel my choice of camcorder is not up to par???:(

Anybody have comments regarding the adapter questions I have???:)

Snide comments from jaded senior members welcome!:beer:

Peace
Illumination

[Alex.Flory]

HI Illacov, I am working on an adaptor to fit my PV953 (MX500), GS300 is just a bit smaller than my camcorder. The design is almost finished and going to the CNC shop soon. It has rail (standard rail with 15mm dia aluminium rod and 60mm apart) so you can use pretty much any other parts sold in the market to fit your camcorder. You dont have to screw the adaptor to the tip of the camcorder. Just buy a good 58mm achromat and screw that using an step up ring and slide the camcorder into the adaptor and you are good to go. Problem is the device will only be available mid november as I need to do testing. Will keep you posted if you are still interested then.

[illacov]

So my plans are to build a vibrating model instead of a static one.

If Toenis' vibrating piece is still available, Im going to purchase his unit and use the Canon screen he recommended.

Since the bellows is about the right size already for focal distance from the rear lens flange to the GG, all I would need is a tube that sets the distance from the camcorder to the GG properly for it to focus.

I believe the GS series Panasonics are around 26mm so not very big distance at all and this would elminate the use of a macro or an achromatic, unless I really just want to see what it would look like.

Im still a little concerned about hotspotting but in Toenis' examples, there doesn't appear to be any hotspotting and there's no use of a achromatic or macro AT ALL.

So the total cost of this project is somewhere around

20 bucks for Minolta SR Bellows and Telephoto Zoom lens
25 bucks for Minolta MD 50mm 1.4
65 bucks for Cinedof vibrating plate and Canon focusing screen
2 bucks for PVC pipe
7 bucks for step up ring

119 dollars US for a full kit, minus a support system.....doesnt sound too bad right now from where I see it!

Peace

[DerrickTempleton]

I never understood why people rice out their Dodge Neons.

If I'm gonna be labeled as snide, I may as well say something to actually deserve it.

[Lrdmora]

I use a PV-GS150 and a DIY adapter and a DIY rail system. It's not perfect, but content is king, and it's a lot cheaper than a DVX. Don't get me wrong I lust after a DVX and a nice Brevis, it's just not in the budget right now, and I want DOF!!

Anyway here is a few pictures of the setup. Hope it helps with your decision. The PV-GS ring size starts at 37mm the 300 and 500 are at 43mm.

http://thumb3.webshots.net/t/57/757/1/85/35/2829185350096488103fYNJcs_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2829185350096488103fYNJcs)

http://thumb3.webshots.net/t/32/33/0/79/31/2547079310096488103dSqPlq_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2547079310096488103dSqPlq)

http://thumb3.webshots.net/t/59/759/5/78/9/2572578090096488103Duuvcr_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2572578090096488103Duuvcr)

[illacov]

Hey Derrick, just take a good listen real quick...

Just allow me to take a risk for one second and also consider that I have more tricks up my sleeve.

Since I began this project, I considered tons of different GG methods. The Canon screen is the more realistic, however, I at least experimented with slide film.

It is somewhat grainy, but as a VIBRATING GG its different. I have some exposed slide film that's "FROSTED" and its more like a grey ND filter, but it does show the image. There is some hotspotting giong on, but maybe we need to look more into film?? Or polycarbonate of some kind???

Also..

Ive reconsidered the GS180 its the cheapest of the GS cams right now 350.00 all day every day and now that Red Giant has that new SD-HD software out, we may not have as big a problem with shooting on these cameras in standard definition.

I tried out that little test that the GO35's inventer did with putting the camcorder up to a 35mm camera's eyepiece....One thing I will mention is that it makes A HUGE difference in your captured image.

I showed this aspiring film maker what it looked like and his response was that there was no difference, the camcorder showed what his EYES saw when he looked at the scene we were shooting.

THEN I MOVED THE CAMCORDER AWAY FROM THE 35MM..............

Silence fell across the room as his camcorder returned to the pixelated, washed out over sensitive to light over priced Sony crap that it really is.

Needless to say he CRAVES the DOF Adapter.

The GS Cams have shot GREAT footage....for a good example Derrick look at
The Invitation on the Panasonic 3ccd user's forum. All I can say is WOW.

Also check out Island Police shot with JUST a GS400 (SO FAR)

Maybe somebody can donate a DOF adapter to that guy, he's like the first person in Mauritius to shoot a movie??? Maybe Ill have to build him one??

Derrick just give it a little time and you'll see.

As soon as I get the DOF adapter finished, Ill try it with my buddy's camcorder and post some footage and stills.

BTW

I got my hands on the Extension Tube kit for my Minolta lenses!

8 bucks is all I paid! These things are like collector's items. I told the owner of the Consignment shop (retired photographers and students sell their stuff there) about this experiment and how to accomplish it, she got very excited and curious. She's dying to see the results, maybe to the point of shaving prices down to get me there faster.

All that's needed now is the GG and a way to afix it...........

The only problem is that the area to put the GG is pretty small...Its bigger than the lens' iris when its fully open, however should it be bigger? The focusing screens I had a chance to play with are decent sized and might NOT fit. Using a step up ring to mount them is out of the question because it puts the GG beyond the focal distance of the MD lens.

On a side note I checked out a focusing screen for a 120 mm camera!! HUGE HUGE HUGE!

Only problem is that the thing has that damn circle in the center!!

Is there a way to remove that at all?? The lady at the shop quoted me 12 bucks for it.

Anybody know of "smaller" GG solutions??

The small piece of film would work, but its not ideal.

Peace
Illumination

Ill put some pictures up of what Ive got so far, but later on, I have to drop my wife and kid off.

[illacov]

How much for you to build that for me???

I have cash flow but I haven't worked with metal since shop in Junior High school, when I made a steel hammer.

Plus I dont have the tools necessary to do all the drilling etc.

So maybe you can help me out. Id be using the same camera overall as you and it should be similar in construction.


Let me know what you can do and if you know about a different way of getting this constructed.


Maybe the plans you used?? Then I can go to the local machine shop???


Peace

Illumination

[Lrdmora]

I could maybe do something for you, but you can buy a whole rail system for $130 or build your own for $30. I got all the parts at Home Depot, and the only tools you need are:

Hacksaw (And a steady hand)
Dremel (or sandpaper and a lot of time)
Drill Press (I borrowed one, but you could take the crossbars to a shop and they could do it in 5 min, probably only charge $10)


The rails are 3/8" hollow aluminum with 1/4" solid aluminum rail that slide in and out for future expansion, for a matte box or similar $5 for the hollow, $8 for the solids.

The crossbars are 1" hollow square aluminum $8

The flat stock is 2" aluminum and is around $12

They all come in 3' sizes

PM me and I will send you a link to a ton of stuff about DOF and rail systems with PV-GS 3ccd cameras. I don't want to post a link here to another forum it's a little rude. This site is awesome but it's more for DVX and higher cameras, I love it, but I don't have one yet. I just come to drool and get good ideas!

I don't know if you saw the pics with just the rail system but they are in the same album. It's pretty simple construction. If you are serious about buying a rail let me know and I will talk to my buddy with the machine shop. Mine is good but not 100% level, because the crossbars aren't totally even.

Let me know.

[hisham]

That's right, I haven't had any weight strain problems with my adapter. The Panasonic GS-300 seems to hold it up pretty well.... I've just posted a how-to of my latest revision. The GG used is not perfect (1500 grit from thorlabs,) but it's better than what I used previously.

Judge for yourself, I've put up new test footage and a how-to post: http://hishamkhalifa.com/?p=75