Blender with Shake

[jhvid]

Anyone know if it's possible to import 3d objects from Blender to Shake?

[Everdene]

Anyone know if it's possible to import 3d objects from Blender to Shake?

Yes. Blender will export objects to several different formats that Shake can import.

[Edit: Oops. Yes, blender can export rendered layers to be composited in Shake.]

[NickJushchyshyn]

Eh?
Shake doesn't import 3D objects.
Though you should easily be able to have Blender render a series of multipass renders in any number of image or video formats that Shake can import and composit.

[jhvid]

Could you explain that a little bit more; I seem to be confused about the function of Shake. I thought that Shake was meant to manipulate 3d objects created in other programs and composite those objects into video footage.

[NickJushchyshyn]

Shake composits 2D images and videos. It can do so in 3D space, like setting up photos on a long table for example, but it does not import 3D geometry and textures like Blender, Maya, XSI, etc.

Generally, the 3D app, like blender, will be setup to render multiple passes of 2D video frames for a given scene. Color, shadow, reflection, occlusion, depth .... the list goes on and on and often multiplies if the affects of individual lights (specular hits, shadows, etc.) are rendered to their own passes.

Shake then imports all these various renders and allows them to be blended with renders or plates from other sources into a completed, integrated shot.
If you comp the scene together and the shadow passes look too dark, for example, you can adjust them in shake without having to re-render from 3D.

Hope this helps.

[Anhar Miah]

Hey Nick I've read your impressive signature:

Matchmoving, Compositing, Digital Matte, CGI,
Programming & Project Management,

(everything I love doing, except the Management)

Now just don't tell me your an Engineer too! :)

Anhar

[NickJushchyshyn]

Heh heh .. Thanks.
Just trying to keep busy. :)

Define "Engineer" ;)
I minored in engineering in college and have been tied to "software engineering" for most of my career.

Nah .... you're safe. Traditional engineering (Electrical, Civil, Material, Chemical, Mechanical, etc.) is pretty well outside my personal scope. :)

Thanks again.

[Anhar Miah]

@ jhvid, what was it exactly that you have attempted to do?


as a side note:

cool, not to jack this thread but what apps do you use, for me I use:

3d app: Max 7

Matchmove : Syntheyes, and Vodoo (tried Icraus now PFTrack I think)

Comp : AE 6 now switched over to Combustion

D Matt : Photoshop, and MS paint (yea you heard right!)

Prog: Fortran, Python, basic, Dark Basic, Visual Basic, AND Z80 Machine Code (no language, just direct binary pluged in :), dabled with C++ a bit though


Anhar

[Greggl]

Nick, got any samples of your work online? The guys I work with are always
looking for vfx generalists.

[jhvid]

thanks Nick that's a huge help; I think I'm beginning to understand, maybe :) I was just asking to try to get a general understanding of what Shake does exactly.

[NickJushchyshyn]

Prog: Fortran, Python, basic, Dark Basic, Visual Basic, AND Z80 Machine Code (no language, just direct binary pluged in :), dabled with C++ a bit though
Machine Code !?!? Yikes.
I haven't messed with that since the days of keying in MC games into a Commodor64 out of a Compute's Gazatte subscription :p


3D: Cinema4D, learning Maya
Matchmove: Boujou Bullet, Matchmover Pro
Comp: AE 7, Shake
D Matte: Photoshop
Coding: SQL, VB, ASP, C/C++ ... trying to make time for Python & PHP. Hope to dig into MEL next year once I've gotten used to the GUI side of Maya.

Nick, got any samples of your work online? The guys I work with are always looking for vfx generalists.
Thanks! I've actually been meaning to get this done and you're post is just the kick in the butt I needed. I'll get it online and post back before the weekend is out. (Won't be anywhere near as impressive as yours though. WOW!)
Thanks again.

[Anhar Miah]

Hey man, make sure you post us a link of your work, I'll be very interested to see your work for sure!

Anhar

[NickJushchyshyn]

Well, here you go. Again, nothing as amazing as Gregg's, but at least it's online now. :p

NJushchyshyn Reel, H264, 640x480, 68Meg (http://www.nickfx.com/demo/njushchyshyn_reel_h264.mov)
NJushchyshyn Reel, H264, 320x240, 20Meg (http://www.nickfx.com/demo/njushchyshyn_reel_h264_small.mov)

Have fun.

[Anhar Miah]

wow, cool, did you do the modelling for all of those jobs, or just the matchmove bits?

A few questions:

(1) What did you use for the wave crashing into the city shot, was it fluid simulation or particles?

(2) Did you use terragen type software for that shot with the statue ad mountains?

how long have you been learning 3d?

Anhar

[NickJushchyshyn]

Modelling? .... no. I'm not a CG modeler.
I can handle basic stuff. Plenty to get by for camera mapping and such, but it's not at all a strongpoint for me.

For the opening set of shots in the reel I was director and vfx supervisor.
My primary work on those shots was handling the initial shot break-downs and production planning, directing and managing the artists doing the bulk of the work (26 artists from 9 U.S. states and 5 countries), critiquing and suggesting refinements ... that sort of thing.
For the shot with the people laying on the floor I did everything EXCEPT the model.

My "hands on" involvement with the storm wall shot was creating the water (RealFlow). The clouds were realized as 3D pyrocluster particle systems in C4D. They were rendered as "cotton candy" ... white smoke lit from different directions using Red, Green & Blue lights which were then blended as passes in comp.
The statue shot seems to fool everyone. I constructed the statue frame using RealViz image modeller on a set of photos taken by a friend that had been to Rio and took the helicopter tour around the statue. This was handed off to a CG modeller and a texture artist for finishing.

The background is a 10,000 pixel wide digital matte ... just a flat picture behind the statue. Again, I created the template (Using RealViz Stitcher to process a set of photos taken by that same friend while standing at the base of the statue) then handed off to an paint artist for finishing. She painted the snow scene in Photoshop over the stitched image.

I've been "learning 3D" for around 3-4 years, but I have to admit to not really applying myself to it to any great degree. The attention to detail and lighting practiced in digital matte and compositing has helped me with texturing and lighting in 3D, but I have a long way to go to develop any real skill in modelling.

[Anhar Miah]

excellent work, realflow rocks! just watching that wave crashing into the buildings makes me want to go do some simulation right now :) (but then I remember how long the calcs would take for something large scale like that).

I really liked the virtual sets shots that you did, thats something I've been toying with myself, I really think indie films can really look like big budget film with the use of virtual sets (and hard work :). In fact I saw a film done by a DVX member a long while ago, shame I forgot what it was called (never managed to track it down) but it was done MOSTLY in greenscreen and tracked, when I watched the trailer I was blown away, and had not realised that most of it was fake ! (the background buildings that is) when I watched the behind the scences My jaw dropped! .

Your work as definatley inspired me to buckle my boots up and go learn more VFX stuff.

[Anhar Miah]

Hey Nick,

Now I hope you won't get angry for me doing this:

Basically, on your reel you had that scene with the couple lying on floor (the Big freeze I think) and you had the actual green screen plates, so I took them and matchmoved it and then rendered out my own CG "Hallway" Set, and then comped it.

Of course its not a great key (heck I'm surprised that ANYTHING actually keyed after going from all that web compression!)

Anyway I would like to share the clip, BUT I dont want to step on any ones toes, so if you have any legal/ copyright/ issues I will not post it. So I'm asking you first .

This was done PURELY for my own educational purpose, my confidence in set virtual extension has now increased :)

Anhar

[NickJushchyshyn]

Sure, let's see it :)
(it's ok show in this thread, but you shouldn't use it in a demo reel ;) )

[Anhar Miah]

I wont even dream of using it in a demo reel :) haha, whats the best way to upload the video, I was thinking youtube (which I can delete later)

Anhar

[Anhar Miah]

The Process:

I matched moved the original Plates, and exported the data into 3ds max

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/Anhar/OrginalPlate.jpg

Then I Used some Garbage Matts to remove unwanted areas:

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/Anhar/GarbageMatt.jpg

Finally the Virtual set was scaled and Orientated then rendered out and composited in Combustion:

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/Anhar/FinalComposite.jpg

To see the Video click here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdDaqiV6WkI

Anhar

[NickJushchyshyn]

Excellent! Especially considering the compressed source material.
You should think about matching the color spaces of the foreground and background. The black levels in particular are way off in this comp.
It might also be useful to consider looking into PixelCorps where you would have the chance to work directly on HD plates and high-end matchmove tools.

[Anhar Miah]

Cheers Nick, I had'nt thought about matching FG and BG colour spaces, thats something I'll will try on my next projetcs.

I'll certainly have a look at PixelCorps. I just really enjoy VFX and always think damn why did'nt I discover this years ago (true VFX is always evolving), but it is rather amazing what current "home" computers can do as opposed to what they could not only a few years ago!

Anhar

[Fugitive]

Looks like I am not the only one comming from a software background, into CG, and on to film-making. Currently doing my Phd in Computer Graphics from the University of Glasgow, but will be working on my first feature pretty soon. And yes, virtual sets will be used. :)

[Anhar Miah]

Hey Fugitive, I didn't know there was a PHd in Computer Graphics, that means they must do Masters level degree in Computer graphics as well, if so I'm off.

Anhar

[NickJushchyshyn]

There are also Masters in Fine Arts degrees for studies like Animation and Visual Effects.
I'm in my third semester for an MFA in visual effects at the Academy of Art University.

[Anhar Miah]

Hey fugitive, got any jobs for me? I'm broke, Need a job, I'm Kiddin of course :)

Found a decent Msc course in my Home town, (its game dev orientated) buy hey I spoke to the prof he sounded cool, I told him that I know 3ds max and do programming, he said I was ideal, because they they teach 3ds max and Open GL (using Visual C++ .net)

Bit late for this semester but next year, who knows

Hey Nick, I'll look out for VFX courses in the UK, I'm a not sure their is any, and I don't want to study in a different town right now (been there done that) its ok if you have the money though.

[NickJushchyshyn]

One other thing to check out is fxphd.com
It's not an accredited program, but it looks really cool, everything is online and it's not all that expensive either

(I'm already spending so much on AAU there's nothing left for me to join fxphd, so I don't have personal experience or connections with this program. Just thought it would be of interest.)

[Anhar Miah]

excellent its book marked !

Yea I found some VFX Master courses one in Bournmouth Uni, and the other in Kent Uni, the Bournmouth one seems to have excellent industry links such as Sony Enterainment, and loads of other Media companyies. The Kent one deals Mostly with HD equipment and high end gear.

Damn, damn, damn, if I knew these courses existed before. Well its never to late, just need to save up the green bits of paper first :)

One last thing, I know its a big tangent, but your the guy with the experience, what do you think if I was thinking of starting my own VFX studio. good idea/ bad idea? heck there must be lots of VFX graduates streaming out of those Uni's finding talented guys/gals to employ should not be a problem.


Anhar

[Greggl]

Its a tough biz with razor thin profit margins. I've got one guy that works for me
and I do a lot of contract work in addition to the shots that we field as a team. The
only reason I even get that work, is the extensive contact network and trust that
you build up from working at the big LA houses for any period of time.

Get good... get the gnomon tutorials and consider taking a/some classes in person
out in LA.

[Fugitive]

Anhar, a PhD (and usually M.S as well) are research programs, so you can do your research in any topic you like. I chose Computer Graphics (Computer Vision).

The thing to note though, is that this kind of PhD is different from the kind of "art" courses that are taugh in the VFX courses. The focus of a PhD course is more on Research and technical aspects, while the focus of art-related courses is obviously more on the practical and entertainment aspects of the craft.