Recording times at full 4K Rez?

[CamDiver]

I asked this question before but the topic went off on a tangent regarding other opinions etc. I'd just like to get an idea of what the recording times would be for all shooting formats using the 160GB drive thus far mentioned as the recording drive.

i.e How much time would the user get at full 4K rez, 2K, 1080P, 1080i, 720P etc.

Thanks in advance.
If someone could also give me the formula for working that out I'd also appreciate it.

Mark.

[Jannard]

Nothing is locked down yet. 4k REDCODE RAW should be pretty close to 27 MB/s. The rest is "in development".

Jim

[Nick_Shaw]

Will REDCODE RAW be available as a recording option in 2K when using the 'windowed' mode?

Nick

[dudeguy37]

Yeah...I think everyone would be very happy if there were 2K (S35 and Windowed) RAW formats. I can understand not having RAW at 720 and 1080, but it would be really helpful to start with RAW 2K when we know we don't need the extra rez and then work through REDcine to get where we need to go, while only using 1/4 of the disk space. Anyway...just my opinion and I'm sure you guys we're planning good things anyway.
Peace,

-Harry

[Nick_Shaw]

2K RAW could only be used in windowed mode, as the RAWness of the data would be lost if it was scaled.

I don't expect it would use 1/4 of the diskspace, as the compression efficiency would be less with a smaller framesize. Pixel dimensions to compressed data-rate is never a linear relationship. Nonetheless, there would still be a significant disk space saving.

Nick

[Brook Willard]

Well, taking what we know now:

REDCODE = ~27MB/s. Lets say 30MB/s, just in case.

1GB = ~34 seconds.
160GB = ~91 minutes.

[dudeguy37]

Thanks for clearing up the space issue Nick. I figured I'd be wrong about it only being a 1/4 of the space, but at least I was confident AND wrong. :)
And as for S35 2K, if we wanted to be able to do color processing without degredation, but we couldn't have it as raw, would we just use a 4:4:4 format...and would that be as efficient codec wise as REDcode? Of course I'm kinda asking people to speculate here, so just go for it.
Thanks again.
Peace,

-Harry

[Jarred Land]

Depends.. Color processing is a pretty loose term.. you can do that in various stages of the chain, from the Lut/Matrix point all the way to RGB re-timing. But of course if you wanted to, you could enter an uncompressed workflow at anytime and carry along throughout your existing established post production pipeline.

[acehole111]

Heres one thing I dont understand.. Why would you want to shoot 2K windowed when 4K scaled down gives you less grain, better sharpness and overall more dynamic range (theoretically) since you are using the full gamut of the sensors pixel matrix. After all, High end Advertisements even though shown only on TV are shot on 35mm and not 16mm or Highdef for a reason.

[Brook Willard]

If you're using a S16mm lens, you'd shoot windowed. If you want to increase the effective focal length of a S35mm lens, you'd shoot windowed.

[Jarred Land]

to some most importantly 2k windowed lets you shoot at 120fps... thats the big kicker. 2k Windowed also lets you shoot the center of the lens, which at this resoluion is a huge advantage as optics on cheaper glass tends to deteriorate away from the prime center region.

[acehole111]

to some most importantly 2k windowed lets you shoot at 120fps... thats the big kicker. 2k Windowed also lets you shoot the center of the lens, which at this resoluion is a huge advantage as optics on cheaper glass tends to deteriorate away from the prime center region.

Yeah thats a great reason. Thanks for clarifying that.

On a side note, I actually happen to love the visual quality of the deterioration that happens away from the centre at the corners...its an organic look similar to what our eyes see. Ive actually added that in post a few times.

[CamDiver]

Thanks for clearing that up.

Regards,
Mark

[Nick_Shaw]

Looking at http://red.com/formatoptions.htm it seems that RED-RAID with uncompressed RAW recording is required for 120fps. Then again that table has not been updated as far as I can tell to reflect the IBC announcement of REDCODE RAW enabling 4K onboard recording.

Of course encoding even 2K to REDCODE at 120fps is a lot of data processing and may not be possible. But we've seen Red produce 'miracles' before.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Nick

[Nick_Shaw]

If RAW 4K is 324MB/s at 24fps, then 2K RAW at 120fps would be 405MB/s (0.25 number of pixels, 5 x framerate). Even if that could not be encoded to REDCODE RAW in real-time, I suppose that it could be buffered and encoded 'after the event' for short burst over-cranking. Don't know if REDFLASH would be fast enough to buffer this data rate, but if it could then the projected 128GB REDFLASH could buffer over 5 minutes at this data rate. Feasible?