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View Full Version : Cropping 16:9??



Kyle Stebbins
09-10-2006, 06:33 PM
How would one "crop" their video down to 16:9 in premiere pro... i understand that the required entry format is 16:9 -- how would one attain that after shooting 4:3 with the dvx and then editing in premiere.

i have ideas, but nothing that would seem all that practical.
:beer:cheers! -kyle

VersuS
09-10-2006, 09:42 PM
cropping doesnt sound so good...you'll throw out a LOT of information! I did the same thing, shot in 4:3 and edited that way...but haven't found a better idea than to scale down the height

Kyle Stebbins
09-10-2006, 09:57 PM
exactly, i'm a little bit concerned about this... -- can anyone help?

VersuS
09-11-2006, 12:36 AM
the stupid thing with this is that I couldnt shoot in a different mode, love is the most deceptive feeling was already shot just before I found out about horrorfest, and the door between had 1/3 of it shot again before I found out about horrorfest (but all of them were inside the designated period of time to get approved for entry) so I couldnt have 1/3 of it shot in 4:3 and the rest shot differently...so I got stuck with the 4:3 for the whole movie

anyway I scaled down the height for Love is the most deceptive feeling, and exported it in quicktime to see how it looks and I can tell you that it could be worse :) I think its not that bad....especially if there's no other way around this.

Brandon Rice
09-11-2006, 12:39 AM
I just sent ya a PM Kyle. I shoot everything 4:3 and crop 16:9 in post :)

TimurCivan
09-11-2006, 12:47 AM
it is better. i leaned this From jackDAnielStanley actually. It gives you FAR more freedom in the editing room. you can recompose a shot if say somehtign is too low or high. No problem, just slide the cropping marker up or down.

VersuS
09-11-2006, 12:56 AM
hey brandon, can you pm me as well about cropping? thanx man

Matty_g
09-11-2006, 01:51 AM
how do you export 16x9 for something that is letterboxed?

Despin
09-11-2006, 04:11 AM
Hey there.

Why would you send the info in PM and not just post it in this thread?

I'm sure it would be helpful to many people.

Despin out.

VersuS
09-11-2006, 04:35 AM
Hey there.

Why would you send the info in PM and not just post it in this thread?

I'm sure it would be helpful to many people.

Despin out.

I agree with Despin on this one :D

ade4all
09-11-2006, 05:38 AM
for best quality uprez to 16:9, shoot 4:3 then either use photozoom pro
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=6843

or use instant hd as a plugin in premiere, i think this is a quicker method but results are very similar

Draccan
09-11-2006, 07:47 AM
[deleted by user]

Brandon Rice
09-11-2006, 07:51 AM
I have found that shooting 4:3... then cropping to 16:9 then increasing the height of the footage to 133% and exporting the file out as 16:9 has yielded good results. At least good enough for a web version file.

Kyle Stebbins
09-11-2006, 08:17 AM
well, brandon just said it... but here is his pm (if he doesnt mind me sharing it... lol)

brandon: Well, here's what I do. I shoot my film 4:3. Then I import it normally. And I apply a 16:9 crop to all my footage. Then I expand the height of the footage to 133% and export out a quicktime file that is 16:9.:thumbsup:

kyle: doesnt that run down the quality, though?

brandon: The loss in resolution is so slight it's negligable.

there ya go!

Brandon Rice
09-11-2006, 08:23 AM
Yeah, you CAN take the time to use photozoom pro to uprez the footage, but IMO it's not worth the time, especially for a web version. Maybe you want to do that when you put it on DVD. But, for the web version, squeezing the footage is fine.

Gabin
09-11-2006, 09:53 AM
hi i just bought a dvx100 yesterday woohoo.

not sure how dumb this question is. can i just shoot my whole film in 16:9 to begin with? and can someone tell me how to set that on the camera?

thanks

Rubix³
09-11-2006, 09:56 AM
I appreciate the replies to this thread - thanks Brandon & ade4all. :thumbsup:

Rubix³
09-11-2006, 10:16 AM
hi i just bought a dvx100 yesterday woohoo.

not sure how dumb this question is. can i just shoot my whole film in 16:9 to begin with? and can someone tell me how to set that on the camera?

thanks From what I hear, it's wise to stay away from the "letterbox" method of shooting and just take care of 16:9 in post.

Brandon Rice
09-11-2006, 10:24 AM
I appreciate the replies to this thread - thanks Brandon & ade4all. :thumbsup:

No problem, and yes, shooting 16:9 in production really limits you in post, in my experience. :thumbsup:

TheatreGuy
09-11-2006, 11:00 AM
Hey all, I want to jump in because I have battled this question over and over. I have searched many threads and read a lot of debate on this subject. I found that there seems to be an equal number of people having strong feelings for one choice or the other. (that is shooting 4:3 and cropping in post or shooting 16:9 to begin with.)

I chose to go with the 16:9 squeeze mode because I have the 100b and it displays the image correctly in the lcd screen. Another determining factor was that it was stated that in shooting 4:3 you are adding a step to the process (which does give you the ability to adjust your crop in post but if you frame it correctly to begin with, you are saving the time for tinkering with this later).

And finally, I thought that I saw a post from Brandon that he agreed with the squeeze method (and I like the footage of Ransom so I chose that route). (Brandon, I am wondering if I am correct and you have since changed your plan or am I mistaken altogether?)

Any way, I am shooting squeeze mode and so far am happy with the look. I haven't noticed a loss of resolution. (and from what I understand, shooting either 4:3 then cropping or shooting 16:9 squeeze both result in loss of resolution. The one benefit of cropping in post is that you have the ability to change your framing, but at the cost of spend that additional time cropping.)

I would love to hear what other people are doing and their results. I can tell you that if I didn't a 100b, I don't think that I would use squeeze mode. The picture in the lcd is just too distorted. But with the 100b, it appears perfectly.

As for Gabin's question... congrat on your new camera. The setting is in the menu selections. Press Menu and the second item down (after scene settings is camera settings. You can change your mode there.)

Looking forward to the discussion here!

Ted

cinealma
09-11-2006, 11:11 AM
I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but I think that you really have to decide what your final output is going to be. In other words, how far do you think it is possible you will go? Internet only, broadcast, DVD, film out?

OPEN: Internet - Anything goes, any frame rate, "film look" filter, MB, etc. What you see is pretty much what you get.

STRICT: Film Out - Lots written on this subject. Best shoot with 16:9 adapter 24pa with very specific settings, no post filtering, etc.

Anything in between those is going to be personal taste and preference and requirements.


John G.

Brandon Rice
09-11-2006, 11:12 AM
And finally, I thought that I saw a post from Brandon that he agreed with the squeeze method (and I like the footage of Ransom so I chose that route). (Brandon, I am wondering if I am correct and you have since changed your plan or am I mistaken altogether?)


Well. If I said squeeze in any reference it was a post process of squeezing the footage after cropping. Thereby creating a 16:9 file. I actually have a DVX-100 (non-a or b) so I don't even have the option of squeeze mode. Therefore, I shoot in 4:3 and crop in post to 16:9, then I "squeeze" the footage and render a 16:9 file... Hope that makes sense. Sorry, if I led you to think something different. I am happy you're pleased with your results in squeeze mode :thumbsup: Whatever works, works... there is no perfect way.

TheatreGuy
09-11-2006, 11:47 AM
Thanks Brandon. I really won't have an opportunity to know what pleases me until I have shot a few more things.

Thanks for commenting.

Rubix³
09-11-2006, 12:20 PM
I'd like to see a comparison of the two. I'm waiting on my deck & more tapes or I'd do it myself.

If no one posts a comparison, I'll have one up by the end of the week.

TheatreGuy
09-11-2006, 02:36 PM
If no one posts a comparison, I'll have one up by the end of the week.
Cool! Looking forward to seeing it. I did one (using 16:9 squeeze, 4:3 cropped and 4:3 full frame) and I didn't notice any difference. I'd like to test further with different lighting conditions and different focal lengths. But right now, I am just trying to work on this horrorfest entry!!!

Rubix³
09-11-2006, 04:28 PM
Cool! Looking forward to seeing it. I did one (using 16:9 squeeze, 4:3 cropped and 4:3 full frame) and I didn't notice any difference. I'd like to test further with different lighting conditions and different focal lengths. But right now, I am just trying to work on this horrorfest entry!!! I'm reading a lot of threads that agree with you.

It seems like there's pros and cons to both. If you shoot in squeeze mode you don't have the available manipulation options as you would in taking care of 16:9 in post.

See these threads:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=6843
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=70313
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=69459

Might be best for a newbie (like me) to shoot in squeeze first off, then take care future shoots in post.

Gabin
09-12-2006, 11:26 AM
As for Gabin's question... congrat on your new camera. The setting is in the menu selections. Press Menu and the second item down (after scene settings is camera settings. You can change your mode there.)

Looking forward to the discussion here!

Ted

Thanks Ted!

Looking forward to it. I'm gonna film in 16:9 squeeze mode like you suggested, but thats just because I'm not that experienced in final cut yet.

Horrorfest, Gonna be the first movie I make baby! Im sure itll suck, but hey itll be a great learning experience.

now i just gotta learn how to light a completely pitch black environment.

cheers,

Gabin

TheatreGuy
09-12-2006, 02:41 PM
Thanks Ted!

Looking forward to it. I'm gonna film in 16:9 squeeze mode like you suggested, but thats just because I'm not that experienced in final cut yet.

Horrorfest, Gonna be the first movie I make baby! Im sure itll suck, but hey itll be a great learning experience.

now i just gotta learn how to light a completely pitch black environment.

cheers,

Gabin

Hey Gabin, glad you got my note here. I imagine that you have a dvx100b, right? Because my suggestion is based on the fact that the 100b presents the image correctly while recording. (From what I understand the 100a shows the image all "squeezed" until it is captured into your editing program.)

As for your first movie, that is great man! I am in the same boat. I have shot tons of video, recording weddings, recitals, theatre productions and such. But this is my first movie! I am so excited about it. And don't worry if your sucks. Really. You have to get the first one out of the way and learn all of the skills that you will need to do better on the next. Are you entering in Horrorfest? If so, please post your title so I can look for it!

And as for lighting, if you like describe what you are trying to do. I would love to give some help if I can and you might get ehlp from others!

Good luck!

Ted

TheatreGuy
09-12-2006, 02:55 PM
I'm reading a lot of threads that agree with you.

It seems like there's pros and cons to both. If you shoot in squeeze mode you don't have the available manipulation options as you would in taking care of 16:9 in post.

See these threads:
[/URL]
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=6843
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=70313
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=69459

Might be best for a newbie (like me) to shoot in squeeze first off, then take care future shoots in post.
Yeah, I agree. And thanks for the thread referrals. There are a ton of them! (I, too, am a newbie and have learned SO MUCH on this site!!!)

Here is two more threads that are the ones that made me go with squeeze...
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=35291&highlight=mode+letterbox+squeeze (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?p=683371)
[url]http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=29533&page=1

Kyle Stebbins
09-12-2006, 08:00 PM
rock on... this thread has helped me a ton. -- shooting 16:9 squeeze seems to be the answer. i will try this! thanks to everyone for your help!!
:beer:cheers! -kyle

jeans
09-19-2006, 02:17 PM
Hey is anyone else using Instant HD with FCP to uprez to 16x9? It doesn't seem to be doing anything for me, ie it looks like crap. In final cut, when I click the filter off and on I see no difference in the image, even with the most extreme settings.

TheatreGuy
09-20-2006, 05:14 AM
Not me. I'm not even familiar with Instant HD. Still learning FCP. I know the very basics of the platform.

MOVIE MASTER
09-20-2006, 08:04 AM
Anybody Using Vegas 6 Or Premiere Pro 1.5?

Kyle Stebbins
09-20-2006, 10:11 PM
im using premiere pro 1.5

Kevin Lee
09-20-2006, 10:45 PM
PP 1.5 here as well. I also enjoy shooting in squeeze mode, I can get a better idea of how I want it framed. I may be thick headed or something, I just cannot picture how the final product will look doing 4:3. And yes it is one additional step I would rather not deal with later.

Beat Takeshi
09-21-2006, 01:24 AM
Do you mean so the final is actually 16x9 without bars or 4x3 with black bars?

zoopraxiscope
09-27-2006, 02:15 AM
We shot 4:3 blocked 2.35:1 and are cropping in post. But its still .9 pixel aspect ratio and I'm unclear as to whether we can submit that. If they want us to uprez to "true" 16:9 (1.2 pixel aspect ratio) then I guess we'll have to uprez.

Aside from Photozoom Pro and Instant HD, what are some plug-ins or other techniques you are aware of that might work?

Thank you for your time.