Sony announces new HDV cameras in time for IBC.

[mikkowilson]

Sony has annouced 2 new HDV cameras similar to the FX1 and Z1 - Possibly as replacements (datails to come).
They have only realeased deatails on the European models, which include apparent true 25P image capture. There are no details on the US models at this time. Whether they will support 30P, 24P or both is UNKNOWN.

The cameras are the HVR-V1E ("prosumer") and the HDR-FX7E ("consumer")

http://www.sony.jp/CorporateCruise/Press/200609/06-0907/img/img_001.jpg
( http://www.sony.jp/CorporateCruise/Press/200609/06-0907/ (http://www.sony.jp/CorporateCruise/Press/200609/06-0907/) )

The new Sony HDV cameras are beeing discussed in multiple threads across the board.

The V1: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=70244
The FX7: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=70205


I will be visiting the Sony stand at IBC to see what details I can get in person. Any questions I should be asking the reps?


- Mikko

[John Trent]

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, ASK WHAT SIZE THE IMAGE SENSORS ARE?

I'm reading 1/4" sensor size for the FX7, and hoping the V1E has 1/3" size chips. No one seems to know or (strangely) care.

Thank you.

[xray]

3x 1/3" ClearVid CMOS Sensor™

[Weston]

is it just me or do those look similar to the new canons....in a different color?


hmm...apon checking i guess its just the handle that does...

[John Trent]

3x 1/3" ClearVid CMOS Sensor™

Thanks a lot, xray. :thumbsup:

Both cams? Not to be rude, but where did you find this out? It is confirmed, right?

[vidled]

Thanks for the news, Mikko.

Wouldn't these possibly be both PAL and NTSC in one cam (i.e. 25P and 24P, etc.), and having only minor differences between US and European models?
Sony has been one of the only companies to somewhat provide cams that are multi format...well, there's Pana's HDX900 too of course... :thumbsup:

[Barry_Green]

3x 1/3" ClearVid CMOS Sensor™

Where does it say this?

I'd read 1/4" before, and the field of view matches what one would expect from 1/4".

[mgalvan]

http://news.sel.sony.com/en/press_room/consumer/digital_imaging/camcorders/high_definition/release/24467.html

According to this press release, it does seem to be 3-chip ClearVid CMOS ... although no specification on actual CMOS size ...

[Barry_Green]

It's 1/4". The Camcorderinfo interview said 1/4" (not that that's exactly authoritative) but then the published specifications for field of view match with what you'd get from 1/4".

[Fugitive]

Camcorder info was talking about the fx-7. We want to know the image-senser size of the "HV-1".

@Mikko. Thanks man. Please also get the expected prices for both the cams, and by when they will be available. What editing solutions are possible, or will be available. Sample images are always welcome. Ofcourse, as always, watch out for the noise!

@JohnTrent: We do care about the sensor size, very much infact. We were just waiting for IBC to get the answers. :)

[filmmaker1977]

sure fugitive.. hv1 not fx7! who cares consumer stuff barry?

[rawfa]

It's 1/4". The Camcorderinfo interview said 1/4" (not that that's exactly authoritative) but then the published specifications for field of view match with what you'd get from 1/4".

Sony has a history of getting our hopes up and then slaming the crude reality in our faces.

[Fugitive]

As I said, we dont really know about the HV1 yet Rafa. Barry is talking about the FX-7, which is a consumer cam anyway, so nobody is selling their FX1 for an FX-7 for indi-film-making.

[xray]

Not confirmed so I can be wrong on the 1/3 " size thing, I only know the processor that is in the HDR HC3E , ( that is 1/3 ") and for the FX-7 I read they processed a 'new CMOS processor' they do not say that for the V1.

Normally I am accurate but during this IBC hiss I can be wrong, we need to see.

[Barry_Green]

As I said, we dont really know about the HV1 yet Rafa. Barry is talking about the FX-7, which is a consumer cam anyway, so nobody is selling their FX1 for an FX-7 for indi-film-making.

There is zero possibility of the chips being any different. These are the identical same hardware (FX7 and V1E), just like the VX2000/PD150, VX2100/PD170, TRV900/PD100, PC7/PD1, HC1/A1U, and every other time that Sony has done a consumer/prosumer version of the same product. The lens/chips/dsp/everything has always been the same between those models; only the audio connector and menu items are different.

[filmmaker1977]

c'mon people.. if this is the guy who is saying: 1/4" and end of story.. sony sucks.. canon rules..

[Barry_Green]

You can't just say that though, because this is CMOS instead of CCD. Until we see it side by side, you can't just use a blanket statement to say "CMOS at 1/4" isn't as good as 1/3" CCD" because we don't necessarily know that.

1/3" CCD from the PD150 was way better than 1/3" CCD on the VX1000. It's *possible* that 1/4" CMOS on the Sony will be better than 1/3" CCD on the Canon. I don't expect that to be the case, but until we see the footage we're all just talking about hypotheticals anyway.

[Fugitive]

True. Got to see it to believe it...

[filmmaker1977]

You can't just say that though, because this is CMOS instead of CCD. Until we see it side by side, you can't just use a blanket statement to say "CMOS at 1/4" isn't as good as 1/3" CCD" because we don't necessarily know that.

1/3" CCD from the PD150 was way better than 1/3" CCD on the VX1000. It's *possible* that 1/4" CMOS on the Sony will be better than 1/3" CCD on the Canon. I don't expect that to be the case, but until we see the footage we're all just talking about hypotheticals anyway.thx you are still the king anyway even outside your territoire..

[AllAroundFilmLV]

i dont know why anybody is interested in theses cams. From what I have read, they offer no new features that other cams do not already achieve.

The ONLY way I would be interested in this cam is if it had 2/3" CCDs.

Sony is Crap, thats right I said it.

[filmmaker1977]

cmos cmos does it answer your question?..

[Fugitive]

Yeah. Which other camera in existence at this price range (or any other?) has 3 CMOS chips? Its worht having a look at, in the very least.

[filmmaker1977]

sure

this hate:banned:against anything:kali:is childish.. i'm a "pana lover":-Love(DBG):and so on..:-Mark-13(DBG)what's this? :furious3:do you sleep with the owner?:bath:

or are you a stock holder?..:violin:i thought here it was just filmmakers..
i just hate ugly :kiss: gals:badputer:

[filmmaker1977]

:violent5:

[filmmaker1977]

:evil:

:)

[andybiz_2005]

Frankly, my opinion is that Sony's prosumer camcorders are just ordinary compared to the likes of Panasonic or even Canon or JVC. I'm not impressed by the V1E at all. In my opinion, Sony's playing catch-up with the other players like Panasonic, Canon, JVC. For eg, the DVX is a 2, 3 year old camera, but still commands a lot of respect from videographers/budget filmakers. I don't trust Sony technology anymore. Just look at recent examples of Sony's BMG who deceivingly put rootkits in their music CDs/DVDs some years back which resulted in costly lawsuits & bad, bad publicity. Or Apple's laptops that had to be recalled because batteries manufactured by Sony exploded & caught fire.

Sony has a knack for inventing their own "proprietary" standards (like memory stick) & insisting that vendors embrace their standards when they can follow & use existing standards that are already in wide use, like SD or compact flash for eg.

What do you all think about Sony as a company? These are just my thoughts.

[Kholi]

What does it matter? It's not AVC-HD which, I'm guessing, a alot of people were suspecting.

I'm still on-board the Canon A1/G1 wagon until I see footage and a price for this cam and any other that arrives. At the very least, there's a strong idea that the A1/G1 will have the same image as the XLH1, which is a very good HD image.

We'll see when it arrives. Where's the MSRP, anyway?

[Fugitive]

People, People. What does it matter what Sony does, as a company? As long as my camera is affordable, and gives a good image, as a film-maker isnt that all I am interested in?

Our loyalties should be with great film-making, and whatever gives us that. If we have to switch, so be it...

[Barry_Green]

Exactly.

Many of us were die-hard Sony users before the DVX came along.

I personally have expressed dismay at the direction Sony as a company is headed in, because I think they're one of the greatest brands in the history of commerce and they've produced some phenomenal products before. It's disappointing to see them make mistake after mistake, losing market share (and money hand over fist) pursuing a DRM/proprietary strategy at all costs. And I sincerely hope they pull their heads out of their rumps and stop that.

But hey, with this new V1, at least they're *finally* offering progressive scan. That's a good sign. Maybe they're going to get back in the game. That's good for all of us.

[Junyo]

My friend took some pictures of the Sony V1E:

http://upload4.postimage.org/1091576/IMG_3791.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/1091576/photo_hosting.html)

http://upload4.postimage.org/1091577/IMG_3796.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/1091577/photo_hosting.html)

[epicedium]

The following was posted on a mailing list by a dutch videographer and visitor to IBC-


The Japanese rep had a large paper with the difference
between the Z1 (FX1) and this camera:
The Z1 had 1/3" CCD's
The VX1 had 1/4 "CMOS sensors
Z1 widest position about 32 mm (in 35 mm terms), the VX1 37 mm
Z1 10x zoom, VX1 20x
Z1 3 lux, VX1 4 lux
Z1 600 lines resolution, VX1 800 lines.

[Barry_Green]

Right -- why is this even in question? The V1 and FX7 are 1/4" CMOS, the FX1 and Z1 are 1/3" CCD.

[Fugitive]

So let me get this right. The V1 has more resolution than the Z1, but smaller CCDs?

[Rowlander]

What does it matter? It's not AVC-HD which, I'm guessing, a alot of people were suspecting.

I think Sony is not sure yet on how to use AVC-HD in the prosumer market.
I can´t imagine prosumer models using those unrelyable mini-DVDs. I once met someone who used them and he lost some footage due to a manufacturing flaw on the disc. Memory Stick Duo is also more or less out of the question at 2-4 gig max at the moment. Could it even handle the writing-bitrate?

I think it would be cool if they´d make a model with a built-in 80 gig hard disc. :thumbsup:
Should be enough for a day of shooting. In most cases.

What I want to know is how much stress AVC-HD puts on the harware when trying to edit it. The more complex the codec, the more powerful the editing system has to be.

[DANiMAL]

Can someone provide a link so I can read up on CMOS? Or would someone like to explain.

[TimurCivan]

ITs a different kind of light sensor. According to Howstuff works (dot) com. They are technologically inferior to CCD's. they are suceptible to noise, and have low light sensitivty. I always thought it was the opposite. but hey, if its on the internet it must be true........

[Tim Le]

Here is a very good white paper (PDF) by Canon on their full frame CMOS sensors for still photography. Canon is generally regarded as the king in low noise digital SLRs because of their CMOS sensors and DIGIC processor. Also, RED ONE uses a CMOS sensor.

(right click save as)
www.robgalbraith.com/public_files/Canon_Full-Frame_CMOS_White_Paper.pdf (http://www.robgalbraith.com/public_files/Canon_Full-Frame_CMOS_White_Paper.pdf)

[DANiMAL]

ITs a different kind of light sensor. According to Howstuff works (dot) com. They are technologically inferior to CCD's. they are suceptible to noise, and have low light sensitivty. I always thought it was the opposite. but hey, if its on the internet it must be true........

Thanks buddy.

[Fugitive]

Huh? Thats strange. I thought CMOS was "less" noisy...