When the levees broke...

[specialed]

If you haven't heard, its Spike Lee's doc on post Katrina happenings.

Very, very powerful stuff.

Anyone else seen it?

[capitalP]

I have to check it out, it came on HBO last night but my cable is turned off, so I hope it's available at Block Busters soon.

[LukeJ]

And I plan to see it all. Powerful stuff. I know firefighters who worked the aftermath and they have some incredible stories to tell, and I will tell you one later, when I have time. But yeah, that documentary will make you think.

[ZFarms Productions]

i dont really like Spike Lee (the only film of his i like is Inside Man), but i definitely want to check this out to hear the stories of what people "think" happened there.

[NO CA$H]

I really want to see it. I'm a big fan of Spike Lee but unfortunately I don't get HBO at my house. A lot of people are saying he's playing the "Blame Game" with this Documentary. I got to see it for myself before I listen to anything Fox News says.

[Jared Meyer]

I heard an interview with Spike about this documentary the other day...He was mumbling on about some conspiracy theory involving the government and controlled explosives in the levees. The guy's a nut, IMO. No interest in seeing this program. Definitely want to see more about Katrina and the devastation it caused, but not from this quack.

[FilmMakerr]

I heard an interview with Spike about this documentary the other day...He was mumbling on about some conspiracy theory involving the government and controlled explosives in the levees. The guy's a nut, IMO. No interest in seeing this program. Definitely want to see more about Katrina and the devastation it caused, but not from this quack.



Bs. Prove it.

[KOVAROVA]

im a fan of spike lee but dont have HBO. i dont think he is a nut or a quack.

[Jared Meyer]

Bs. Prove it. With pleasure!

EXCERPT:
In interviews, and in the documentary, Lee refused to reject the belief, held by many black residents, that the government bombed the levees, flooding the poorest areas to spare the wealthiest ones, such as the French Quarter, which is the biggest draw for tourists. "We let people say what they think," he said, noting the government did destroy levees during the 1927 Great Flood of Mississippi. "We have people from the Lower Ninth Ward who swear on a stack of Bibles they heard explosions. We have scientists say that it wasn't explosions, that they heard water going through a levee."

He told CNN: "I don't put anything past the US government. I don't find it too far-fetched that they tried to displace all the black people out of New Orleans."

http://film.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,,1851743,00.html

I'm not interested in a political debate and won't discuss this here.
But for the record, I don't post "Bs." :)

[Digigenic]

It was reported by a number of major news sources.
I recall seeing an ABC story on the possibility of the levees being blown, citing that they did it to preserve the wealthiest areas of New Orleans.
There were other reports that said there were people caught in crossfire between local law enforcement and private contractors who were hired to carry out the demolition of the levees.
I don't think Spike Lee is nuts for reporting this in his doc.

[KOVAROVA]

In interviews, and in the documentary, Lee refused to reject the belief, held by many black residents, that the government bombed the levees, flooding the poorest areas to spare the wealthiest ones, such as the French Quarter, which is the biggest draw for tourists. "We let people say what they think," he said, noting the government did destroy levees during the 1927 Great Flood of Mississippi. "We have people from the Lower Ninth Ward who swear on a stack of Bibles they heard explosions.

im not sure what is 'nuts' or 'quacky' about it. put yourself in the filmmakers position for a moment. what do you do when people report this to you? do you dismiss it? I haven't heard Lee say it is fact... only suggesting that it is possible. why not bring it up? if it happened before why then would it not be possible today? IMO it would be wrong not to report it. i agree with Lee - let people say what they think.


We have scientists say that it wasn't explosions, that they heard water going through a levee."


we were also told that there was WMD in Iraq.

[J.R. Hudson]

The idea that Katrina is a result of a goverment conspiracy is asinine .

[KOVAROVA]

The idea that Katrina is a result of a goverment conspiracy is asinine .

true.

but who said it was?

[Evan S]

You have to ask yourself two questions.

Why would they bomb the levee's?
Why would they want to displace black people?

I frankly don't see much of a point... Seeing as how it's a NATURAL DISASTER and if there were no levees at all it'd be DEEP UNDERWATER. These people forget that the land is BELOW SEA LEVEL.

[KOVAROVA]

we should remember that this is what the 'documentary filmmaker' found from several interviews in the field. do we call Lee nuts for reporting it?

i don't think Lee has ever said this actually happened. i have heard that this is a really important document and that the interviews of people who heard explosions is only a very small part of it.

does this make him a quack? if you were making the film and several people told you they heard explosions would you choose not to include it?

[Evan S]

Oh, well... in that case I don't think he's a quack. I was responding to posters ( I don't think their crazy either. I just don't understand it)
I saw about half of it last night. It was pretty good.

[Kholi]

Political Debate, here we come.

[jkc123]

Also lets not forget that it wasn't the soley hurricane that caused the massive flooding. The damage to NO itself wouldn't have been that devestating if the leevees would have held up.

Due to that fact coupled with the slow govt response we have what we see presently. The conspiracy theories are simply that.... theories. Look at all the ones we have connected to 9-11.

Do they carry any weight? Who's to say? But, people died unnecessarily in both cases and that is a crying shame.

[KOVAROVA]

Political Debate, here we come.

hopefully not.

so back to Lee.

why is he nuts / quack for reporting this?

[Kholi]

I dunno... I don't think he is.

Were the people involved in 9-11 Nuts/Quack in reporting the same exact sounds?? Bombs exploding and the like?

Were the bomb canines that searched the building on first run nuts/quack for barking like mad as if they'd smelled gunpowder or whatever?

[FilmMakerr]

With pleasure!

EXCERPT:
In interviews, and in the documentary, Lee refused to reject the belief, held by many black residents, that the government bombed the levees, flooding the poorest areas to spare the wealthiest ones, such as the French Quarter, which is the biggest draw for tourists. "We let people say what they think," he said, noting the government did destroy levees during the 1927 Great Flood of Mississippi. "We have people from the Lower Ninth Ward who swear on a stack of Bibles they heard explosions. We have scientists say that it wasn't explosions, that they heard water going through a levee."

He told CNN: "I don't put anything past the US government. I don't find it too far-fetched that they tried to displace all the black people out of New Orleans."

http://film.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,,1851743,00.html

I'm not interested in a political debate and won't discuss this here.
But for the record, I don't post "Bs." :)


He never said it was a fact, or anything he came up with himself. Hes just throwing out what hes heard from the residents who suffered during the disaster. What would you do? as a filmmaker, would you be willing to bury some comments made by residents who swear they saw and heard what they did because it may boil the water a little too much? I sure wouldn't I'd throw it out there just like he did.

[J.R. Hudson]

true.

but who said it was?

http://www.alternet.org/columnists/story/26126/

Oh I don't know; a bunch of whack jobs.

-

And why report bullshit ? If I'm doing a Doc on a flood and people start screaming it is aliens, It doesn't mean I'll report it (Maybe in the outtakes reel)




e told CNN: "I don't put anything past the US government. I don't find it too far-fetched that they tried to displace all the black people out of New Orleans."


I wouldn't put anything past the government either; within the realm of plausibility.

He doesnt find it too far fecthed that our government tried to displace balck people? OMFG

Spike Lee is an asshat. He is the exact kind of person that keeps this shit brewing for future generations to deal with. I am aware that racsm and hate still exists, but he should try calming the waters , not stewing them

[Jared Meyer]

Seriously John...What is going on? I for one have had enough of conspiracy theories lately. First 9/11, now this - so who is this crack governmental team of invisible demolition experts anyway? What a resume they have now, huh? Responsible for the destruction of both the WTC AND the levees in N.O. These guys are going to put terrorists and hurricanes out of business, always beating them to the punch...

But seriously, I'm sure the documentary is great. My heart goes out to those affected and I hope the doc spurs a greater effort on everyone's part to get the money and resources they need to rebuild. Despite what I posted before, I would like to watch this, irrational Spike or no.

And Filmmakerr: All I'm saying is that when I heard Spike Lee talking about this (and if you're really that interested you can find the transcript somewhere) I came away with the understanding that he REALLY believes that the levees were blown. Regardless of where the theory originated, this guy sincerely believes it. Obviously, one's own personal take on the conspiracy theory (true or not) will determine whether your opinion of him changes at all. Mine did. And that's all.

[NO CA$H]

Its starting to look like an Alex Jone's message board in here

[Blaine]

Maybe they used some of that alien technology recovered from Roswell and stored at Wright-Patterson AFB :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

[Digigenic]

He never said it was a fact, or anything he came up with himself. Hes just throwing out what hes heard from the residents who suffered during the disaster. What would you do? as a filmmaker, would you be willing to bury some comments made by residents who swear they saw and heard what they did because it may boil the water a little too much? I sure wouldn't I'd throw it out there just like he did.
Indeed, and there are a lot of people affiliated with a number of news organizations, both mainstream and indie who've reported on this, that is what must be emphasized. Spike isn't paving the way for some conspiracy theory, as some dismissively label it, he's simply providing a channel for their voices to be heard. Just as this board occasionally serves to provide space for some well placed individuals to insult other people’s points of views.

And all things considered, it shouldn't come as much of a shock for people to take the victims’ perspectives into consideration when reviewing the series of events that surrounded this catastrophe.
If they’ve lived it and you haven’t, their views tend to take precedence over yours.
On the opposite end, it does come as a bit of a shock to find that people would not only go so far as to dismiss the perspectives shared among these people who've endured this horrific event, and continue to endure the troubles that lie ahead, but actually begin to assert in their dismissal of such a perspective that anyone who believes this or would even bother considering it is "nuts" or "out of line".
It seems self serving and irresolute of rationale.

There's always room for civil discourse, though the time and place is always inconvenient for someone.
I find it odd though that the same people who institute certain policies and selectively reinforce those policies would even be remotely successful at having you believe they're supportive of everyone's views, yet we see that they’re often the first ones to cast the stones that bring the whole thing down.

[CallaghanFilms]

Maybe they used some of that alien technology recovered from Roswell and stored at Wright-Patterson AFB :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)
You are absolutely correct, Blaine...but it was much, much more than that.

Actually the studio where they shot the "staged" Armstrong/Aldrin moon landing was located under the levees themselves (which, by the way, was the current lair of the dinosauroids reptilian sect of which Princess Diana was a member.) Truth be told, there was an entire compound of networking tunnels hidden within the levees themselves.

Also housed in this super secret chamber was the Bilderberg Groups' mind-controlling bar code production factory...the lost plans for the Nazi moon base...the formula for Kentucky Fried Chicken's secret recipe to keep black men impotent...Aristotle Onassis' Gemstone File Project...the Yakuza...I could go on and on.

It was an ingenious plot really. Why just "displace some poor black people" when you could do so much more. Killing countless birds with one stone...now that's ingenuity.

[Jared Meyer]

Callaghan, I think you've said too much. I want you to go quickly to your window and tell me if there is a black suburban parked across the street.

[CallaghanFilms]

Callaghan, I think you've said too much. I want you to go quickly to your window and tell me if there is a black suburban parked across the street.always.

[Digigenic]

If you haven't heard, its Spike Lee's doc on post Katrina happenings.

Very, very powerful stuff.

Anyone else seen it?
I plan on catching it tonight.
If it isn't as powerful as you say it is, then I'm going to hold you and all of the Hurricane Katrina Victims responsible for my displeasure.

[J.R. Hudson]

There is at my place. shi*.

-



Indeed, and there are a lot of people affiliated with a number of news organizations, both mainstream and indie who've reported on this, that is what must be emphasized. Spike isn't paving the way for some conspiracy theory, as some dismissively label it, he's simply providing a channel for their voices to be heard. Just as this board occasionally serves to provide space for some well placed individuals to insult other people’s points of views.


Where are you going with this exactly ? Insult whose P.O.V.'s ?

So a doc on the moon landing focusing on the idea that Kubrick filmed it is honorablee filmmkaing? It's exploitive and Spike is always gunning for attention and agenda. He oughta be ashamed of himself with his racially motivated crusade.

Martin Luther King must be rolling in his grave over Spike.


And all things considered, it shouldn't come as much of a shock for people to take the victims’ perspectives into consideration when reviewing the series of events that surrounded this catastrophe.

If they’ve lived it and you haven’t, their views tend to take precedence over yours.

And there you go, in the same breath you dismiss the opinions of those that have no intimacy with the event which is kind of an insult, isn't it?


On the opposite end, it does come as a bit of a shock to find that people would not only go so far as to dismiss the perspectives shared among these people who've endured this horrific event, and continue to endure the troubles that lie ahead, but actually begin to assert in their dismissal of such a perspective that anyone who believes this or would even bother considering it is "nuts" or "out of line".

You really think secret agents bombed the levees in order to destroy an entire American city ? You think balck people are the only ones that suffered ? Rich, Poor, Black, White, Big Business, Small Business, everyone and every demographic were focked by Katrina


It seems self serving and irresolute of rationale.

As oppossed to Naive and Insane.


There's always room for civil discourse, though the time and place is always inconvenient for someone.

It sounds like Spikes latest masterpiece has nothing to do with Civil Discourse and more with the sensationalism and propaganda.


I find it odd though that the same people who institute certain policies and selectively reinforce those policies would even be remotely successful at having you believe they're supportive of everyone's views, yet we see that they’re often the first ones to cast the stones that bring the whole thing down.

Have something on your mind ? Refrain from the innuendo and say it. You have my attention.

[vidled]

....Actually the studio where they shot the "staged" Armstrong/Aldrin moon landing was located under the levees themselves (which, by the way, was the current lair of the dinosauroids reptilian sect of which Princess Diana was a member.) Truth be told, there was an entire compound of networking tunnels hidden within the levees themselves.

Also housed in this super secret chamber was the Bilderberg Groups' mind-controlling bar code production factory...the lost plans for the Nazi moon base...the formula for Kentucky Fried Chicken's secret recipe to keep black men impotent...Aristotle Onassis' Gemstone File Project...the Yakuza....

The sad thing about all that is that you could easily find a dozen people -some with some kind of a degree- who'd do on-camera interviews backing up those things as "facts".

[Blaine]

The sad thing about all that is that you could easily find a dozen people -some with some kind of a degree- who'd do on-camera interviews backing up those things as "facts".
That's kinda the point he was making...:Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

[Digigenic]

John,
Check your mail.

[vidled]

That's kinda the point he was making...:Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)


LOL, exactly.
I guess the point I am trying to make (badly) is this:

There are two kinds of documentarians in the world. Those who interview people and research the subject and subsequently formulate the story based on their findings; and those who seek out the people who simply confirm their preconceived notions of what the story should be.

[Blaine]

There are two kinds of documentarians in the world. Those who interview people and research the subject and subsequently formulate the story based on their findings; and those who seek out the people who simply confirm their preconceived notions of what the story should be.
Ain't it the truth. Instead of going where the story takes them, they take it where they want it to go...

[Digigenic]

There are two kinds of documentarians in the world. Those who interview people and research the subject and subsequently formulate the story based on their findings; and those who seek out the people who simply confirm their preconceived notions of what the story should be.
No doubt, so where would you rate Spike Lee's documentary?

[Digigenic]

Ain't it the truth. Instead of going where the story takes them, they take it where they want it to go...
I'm trying to think of some noteworthy docs that did and didn't do this, one on one side and another claiming an opposite point of view, are there any documentaries right now that have an opposing view to Spike Lee's that we can reference to see if either or are taking one or the other direction?

[mcgeedigital]

No doubt, so where would you rate Spike Lee's documentary?

To call it a "documentary" is an insult to the artform.

[Digigenic]

If not, then I guess we could always just talk to the people and find out what they think...
Spike did this though, didn't he?

[Digigenic]

To call it a "documentary" is an insult to the artform.
Okay, elaborate, and offer up a pretty reference or two that caters to your definition of artform.

[CallaghanFilms]

Okay, elaborate, and offer up a pretty reference or two that caters to your definition of artform.I will.


The Callaghan Top Ten Documentaries Of All Time List

01 That's Entertainment!
02 Frank Capra's Why We Fight Series
03 The Flight That Fought Back
04 When It Was A Game
05 Combat America
06 Nine Innings From Ground Zero
07 Brother, Can You Spare A Dime?
08 The Living Desert
09 Pumping Iron
10 Triumph of the Will


*From http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=668905&postcount=36

[Filmjunkie677]

Spike Lee has and always will be a reverse-racist. Anything to lay blame on and insult the white man, Spike Lee will jump at the chance.

To quote John, this guy is a "total asshat" and I refuse to watch anything this guy associates himself with and that is rare for me because usually I could care less about people's personal life, crusades, and agendas. But this guy is a whole other story.

He critices fellow writers/filmmakers about there writing and the use of the N word in a screenplay. For people that don't know what I'm talking about, he called out Tarantino when Jackie Brown came out and called him a racist because Sam Jackson's character uses the N word 36 times. Gimme a break, that was the way Jackson's character spoke and that's the way QT is gonna write him. A writer has the freedom to write whatever he wants and to make his characters realistic as possible, so that's the way QT is gonna write.

Tarantino ain't a racist, gimme a f'n break. And now, he's blaming the white man for Katrina... If not, I'm sure thats what he's getting at.

Spike Lee should be banished from Hollywood and never be allowed to make a film again.

Okay, rant over.

[Digigenic]

Thanks for sharing your examples Callaghan
If you've seen Spike Lee's doc, would you care to elaborate on mcgeedigital's and other people's analysis of why Spike Lee's documentary is an insult to the artform?
And among the docs that you do have listed, are there any you can recollect that were met with some degree of controversy and why?

[Digigenic]

Spike Lee should be banished from Hollywood and never be allowed to make a film again.
That's a very strong statement, you didn't like any of his films or at least have respect for the achievements of those films?

[Filmjunkie677]

That's a very strong statement, you didn't like any of his films or at least have respect for the achievements of those films?

No and No.

Okay, I lied... I enjoyed Clockers.... Before I knew about Lee and the way he thinks.

[Digigenic]

No and No.

Okay, I lied... I enjoyed Clockers.... Before I knew about Lee and the way he thinks.
If you were a filmmaker who's seen success, and will likely continue to see success, would you like your films/art to be judged by who you were and/or are, or just for the art itself, or does it even matter at all?
What would your legacy be?

[Blaine]

If you were a filmmaker who's seen success, and will likely continue to see success, would you like your films/art to be judged by who you were and/or are, or just for the art itself, or does it even matter at all?
What would your legacy be?
What is D.W. Griffith's legacy?

[Digigenic]

At the very least, would you want to be respected?
Even your views, be they implemented in your art or not, do they not demand some level of respect?

[Filmjunkie677]

If you were a filmmaker who's seen success, and will likely continue to see success, would you like your films/art to be judged by who you were and/or are, or just for the art itself, or does it even matter at all?
What would your legacy be?

Why do you keep replying with questions?

Im not Spike Lee, so I can't answer those. Sorry.

But if I was a succesful filmmaker, I wouldn't be running my mouth, causing controversy, I'd be making films.


Respect for what? For being a racist and hatin' on the white man. Gimme a break.

Just beacuse the guy's a good filmmaker doesn't give him the right to bash and lay blame on people.

[J.R. Hudson]

If you were a filmmaker who's seen success, and will likely continue to see success, would you like your films/art to be judged by who you were and/or are, or just for the art itself, or does it even matter at all?
What would your legacy be?

Who Shelton is?

Is that a good thing?

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

... A lot of people are saying he's playing the "Blame Game" with this Documentary... Good, there's TONS to go around.
We like our mayor a lot and it took a while before we could accept the fact that he could have done a few things better as well. We were ready to point the finger outward. But point is there's not a level of government that didn't screw up royaly at some point. The thing is this is a result of rampanty corruption on the local level and laziness and ineptitude the higher up you go. State and federal aid and legislation has been tabled and sidestepped for over 40 years that would have had levees in place that would have stopped this. What work was done was inferior due to state and local officials and private citizens pocketing money, using inferior materials, and inflating false employee numbers and generating false invoices. This is just the way it works in New Orleans. To insure my car in Dallas it was $99 comprehensive. In New Orleans it was $145 liability only. "Why?" I asked the isn. agent "because of the drinking and partying?" "No" she repilied, and went on to say that the last three NOLA insurance commisioners were in jail and it costs the insurance companies a lot more to operate in New Orleans for lesgislating all the falls claims. This is how it's always been there. But it's one thing when people are getting screwed on their auto premiums and another when playing with people's lives.
... Sooooo I'm all for the blame game, as long as it is spread evenly amongst all the principle players. This was not a Natural Disaster any more than the Hurricane was the year before that turned up on our cost with a whimper. The difference is that the levees that year could withstand the flooding rains. This year they couldn't. But it was well within the scope of man to have staved off this hurricane, 80% chance if just the correct building materials were made to 99% if the legislation was passed to upgrade the levees and if the experts who said that this was coming for the last 20 or 30 years had been listened to. How anyone whose job it was to know this could ever claim that it was unforseeable is a unfathomable. Megan and I sat there during the hurricane scare a year before and watched 3 TV specials on it.

The idea that Katrina is a result of a goverment conspiracy is asinine . Probably. But add one part government FAILURE (not conspiracey but inpetitude and corruption) plus one part Tuskegee Experiment (who would have believed that our goverment would intentionally inject black soldiers with siphillus during vietnam) plus the nature of racial tension and inequality that is unique in New Orleans (I can elaborate later in another post if anyone is interested) and it looks less asinine and more and more like something that a group of people who got screwed real bad might come up with while trying to make sinceof this. There have been government conspiraceys that screwed black people, but that is something you can fight. A bunch of random events lining up to kill your family members and or errivicbly alter your life - in otherwords something you have no control over and could never have any control over, is much scarier from an emotional standpoint than a conspiracy ... so that's where the notion comes from.

The real place to look for conspiracy is not in making of the event happen but how it was responded to. I'm sure there were spin meetings before the response or presence of top goverment officials to figure out how to handle accusitions that this should have never happened in the first place due to their inpetitude (though not conspiracy).


EXCERPT:
...In interviews, and in the documentary, Lee refused to reject the belief, held by many black residents, that the government bombed the levees, flooding the poorest areas to spare the wealthiest ones, such as the French Quarter, which is the biggest draw for tourists. "We let people say what they think," he said, noting the government did destroy levees during the 1927 Great Flood of Mississippi. FACT ... New Orleans is a bowl surrouned by the Missispi and Lake Ponchetrain. If you fill it it will flood. It's below sea level. If you burry people in the ground their caskets will float to the surface in a hard rain. Now the frenchquarter HAPPENS to be the highest part of the city. This is why the Indians chose it, why the Spanish took it from them (hence the Spanish archetecture in the French Quarter) and so on and so on. This is the reason our place was fine after the hurricane. (and before you think we are rich we paid $640 a month in what would have been slave quarters back in the day and was now a small studio). The other rich area would be Magazine Street where there are large plantation style houses and Magazine street did partially flood. CONJECTURE So the only way an intentional consipracy theory works is if you believe that someone could accurately predict just how far the water would rise and it did literallt come within a block of the French Quarter. That's pretty pinpoint accuracey for knocking down a wall and flooding a bowl shaped city ... so yeah that's pretty implausible.

"We have people from the Lower Ninth Ward who swear on a stack of Bibles they heard explosions. We have scientists say that it wasn't explosions, that they heard water going through a levee."
FACT: You betcha they did. There's some kind of chemical/industrial plant in the Ninth Ward right by the railroad tracks. (I what it was exatly) but the point is there were lots of pressurized canisters of various gasses inside. Now this thing was huge. Like a couple of football fields in size. I learned of it when I was souting locations for ODD squad. I met an artist who's studio (kind of a Barn) was in this industrial area and he was stuck there for the hurricane. Standing in his open air loft we looked across a road to the railroad track where this rubble from a massive building looked like a bomb hit and he explained to me what it looked and sounded like with the large gas cannisters exploding and rocketing through the air like missiles, some even flamming as this building just exploded and was demolished from the inside like a fireworks factory in Road Runner cartoon. So you bet they heard explosions.

....And why report bullshi* ? If I'm doing a Doc on a flood and people start screaming it is aliens, It doesn't mean I'll report it (Maybe in the outtakes reel)...Without seeing the documentary it's hard to know in what light he's reporting it. But if a substantial number of people that were their feel this way then it is a very important part of the story ... not because it my uncover some conspiracy but because the fact that THEY believe it is an interesting, integral, and relevant part of the story. If a bunch of people said they saw John Henkley in his true Alien form for a spilt second right before he busted a cap in Ronny, then that might be a relevant and interesting part of the story. Not because any of us would put much faith in the likelihood of this happening, but to explore why those people thought they saw that ... they couldn't deal with the trauma? lack of control? and there was an Alien on a movie poster across the street ... that would be a story. Similarly, here, and I think much more profoundly, the exploration of why poor blacks would be so willing to go there might cast light in certain dark corners that are in fact at the heart of this thing, both in the greed and incompetence that led up to it and in the apathy and corruption on all governmental levels in the response.

NOW ... AGAIN ... I have not scene this, so if he is putting it out there like some Area 51 pseudo doc designed to titillate and leave it hanging as a distinct possibility to fuel nut job theories, then that it ridiculous. If he is reporting it as a strange and legitimate part of the story - what people were there thought/think - then that's another thing. Of course a real REPORTER or JOURNALIST would say something like "While many people are adamant in this belief there has been no hard evidence to support it" or some such. But also if one or two people just said it and he left it at that I think that's OK too, but obviously open to debate as to how responsible or not that is.

So I'm on the fence about the appropriateness of including it until I see it.

anyway .... that' my more than 2¢ :)

[J.R. Hudson]

Wow Jack

That is an incredible, insightful and articulate post. Thanks for chiming in on this.

And I agree 100% on everything you just wrote:


But add one part government FAILURE (not conspiracey but inpetitude and corruption

As I previously stated, I too have not seen this. My comments are steeped only in this conversation.

As I type this; I am sitting on the front of Ernesto here in Carolina Beach; welcome to the South

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/ridge/lite/N0R/LTX_loop.gif

-

That being said, at first glance I would not give Spike the nod for creating dilligent Civil Discourse but if it can get the attention of anyone who can make a difference than that I will applaud.

Then again, having faith in them isn't very encouraging.

-

Thanks for the history as well and let us hope this Documentary is not Spikes personal Soapbox, becuase that would be the greatest disservice of all.

[dmc]

Spike Lee has and always will be a reverse-racist. Anything to lay blame on and insult the white man, Spike Lee will jump at the chance.

To quote John, this guy is a "total asshat" and I refuse to watch anything this guy associates himself with and that is rare for me because usually I could care less about people's personal life, crusades, and agendas. But this guy is a whole other story.

He critices fellow writers/filmmakers about there writing and the use of the N word in a screenplay. For people that don't know what I'm talking about, he called out Tarantino when Jackie Brown came out and called him a racist because Sam Jackson's character uses the N word 36 times. Gimme a break, that was the way Jackson's character spoke and that's the way QT is gonna write him. A writer has the freedom to write whatever he wants and to make his characters realistic as possible, so that's the way QT is gonna write.

Tarantino ain't a racist, gimme a f'n break. And now, he's blaming the white man for Katrina... If not, I'm sure thats what he's getting at.

Spike Lee should be banished from Hollywood and never be allowed to make a film again.

Okay, rant over.



Yikes - those are some powerful assertations!

For the record, I'm not the world's biggest Spike Lee fan but I think that some of his films have said some interesting things and were well executed.

I don't know him personally and as such can't legitimately comment on his "reverse racisim".

There are many colorful characters in our business and making controversial statements seems to be par for the course regardless of whether or not they coincide with our beliefs. Many people (not myself) might include QT in this racially charged mix as well, given his frequent use of the N word - regardless of the fact that he has gone on record as saying that by using it in an excessive/shocking manor he hopes to take the power away from it's ugly nature/backstory.

That said, perhaps it is Spike Lee's exact hope that stirring things up a little will keep fresh in peoples minds, something that he feels very strongly about. (I'm not comparing them as filmmakers but Spielberg certainly did that with Schindler's List.)


dmc

[dmc]

Wow Jack

That is an incredible, insightful and articulate post. Thanks for chiming in on this.

And I agree 100% on everything you just wrote:

Thanks for the history as well and let us hope this Documentary is not Spikes personal Soapbox, becuase that would be the greatest disservice of all.



I'll second that!


(Nice post Jack!!)

dmc

[Filmjunkie677]

Yikes - those are some powerful assertations!

Are they? I'm just speaking my mind.


For the record, I'm not the world's biggest Spike Lee fan but I think that some of his films have said some interesting things and were well executed.

I agree.


I don't know him personally and as such can't legitimately comment on his "reverse racisim".

Either do I, but if you don't think he's a reverse-racist, well I don't know what to tell ya.


There are many colorful characters in our business and making controversial statements seems to be par for the course regardless of whether or not they coincide with our beliefs. Many people (not myself) might include QT in this racially charged mix as well, given his frequent use of the N word - regardless of the fact that he has gone on record as saying that by using it in an excessive/shocking manor he hopes to take the power away from it's ugly nature/backstory.

Ugh, I don't think he uses it for shock value, thats absurd, he uses it because thats the way his characters talk.


That said, perhaps it is Spike Lee's exact hope that stirring things up a little will keep fresh in peoples minds, something that he feels very strongly about. (I'm not comparing them as filmmakers but Spielberg certainly did that with Schindler's List.)

Something he feels strongly about? That the white man sucks.... Yeah, thats something to feel strongly about and believe in. Sure. Okay.

[Blaine]

Either do I, but if you don't think he's a reverse-racist, well I don't know what to tell ya.
Actually, I don't think he's "reverse-racist" because that implies that only white people can be racist. Point in fact, he is racist.

[Filmjunkie677]

True. Good point, Blaine.

[dmc]

Are they? I'm just speaking my mind.

Either do I, but if you don't think he's a reverse-racist, well I don't know what to tell ya.


That's cool - maybe you'll think of something.




Ugh, I don't think he uses it for shock value, thats absurd, he uses it because thats the way his characters talk.


I absolutely agree. QT writes (one of the best IMO) true to his characters. The net effect however could be deemed as shocking or excessive by some some folks. He himself has discussed this subject at length.




Something he feels strongly about? That the white man sucks.... Yeah, thats something to feel strongly about and believe in. Sure. Okay.

Possibly, your statement above is somewhat oversimplified (It certainly has a very defensive posture about it). If in fact that is what SL is professing then I won't be putting too much stock in what his message is. Regardless I think that this is heading in an all together different place - probably not appropriate within this forum.


Peace.




dmc

[specialed]

here's a crazy idea...

watch it, then form an opinion.:nads:

[J.R. Hudson]

My opinion was on Spike (Not the documentary) :nads::nads::nads::nads::nads::nads::nads::nads::n ads:

[Kholi]

Very informative post, Jack.

Awesome input.

[Erik Olson]

Wow,

Has a single poster in this thread actually seen the documentary? I watched all four acts last Monday and Tuesday, so I'm going to chime in on this embarrassing thread.

On spin and conjecture...

You've all done vastly more damaging character assassination within this thread than Spike did in any of the four hours of the Levees documentary. In fact, much to my surprise, he largely let the people of NO do the talking without writing or coloring too much between the lines.

I expected to see W get lambasted throughout four hours of the show - instead the larger FEMA entity and the Army Corps. of Engineers came out of it with the stink. Even Michael Brown almost looked okay when all was said and done - despite the vilification he received while his career came unraveled.

On explosions...

Lee went way out of his way to show that a Mississippi-class barge which had broken from its mooring subsequently slammed into a concrete levee wall at a good clip - very close to where residents reported the explosion sounds. Countering the conspiracy theorists were residents, engineers and officials who used their own words to convincingly explain what might have actually happened.

Additionally, Mr. Lee goes back in time to 1927 when the government did blow levees to flood poor areas to save the wealthier neighborhoods. It so happened that those areas in 1927 were almost wholly white in demographic. This is driven home in the piece.

As was stated earlier, even if you don't buy into this particular nefarious plot, don't believe for a second that we don't live under a government who would use its citizens as lab rats if they could continue to get away with it.

What JDS said [about explosions] above is yet another explanation that was not explored in the film.

If anything, I think this was the work of a filmmaker who stayed very objective despite the fact that there are still corpses uncollected, monies not distributed and bureaucracy further stagnating and contaminating what used to be New Orleans.

Spike is a good documentarian - you do not hear his voice in the piece - there is only the narration of the citizens of the Gulf Coast.

All of this said, I felt like I learned nothing new through the documentary. Perhaps CNN (thanks largely to my man A. Cooper) actually got one story right last year, and we have heard a fair, balanced and full reporting. If anything, I left surprised that Spike hadn't put more of a mark on it or uncovered something truly devastating that we'd not heard before.

The piece exposes all the players from top to bottom as optimists, bunglers and, to varying degrees, people who spin and manipulate to save their skin or gain that all-important footing toward power. The real losers in this are those who are dead, the ones they left behind and the folks who can't seem to find their way home.

Go watch this before you comment on Spike Lee's effort here.

e

[jkc123]

For all of you guys calling Spike "racist", "reverse racist", and "race crusader" can you please enlighten me and point me towards a quote or something that the man did that was undeniably outright racist.

[Erik Olson]

"'For all of you guys calling Spike "racist", "reverse racist", and "race crusader" can you please enlighten me and point me towards a quote or something that the man did that was undeniably outright racist.'"

jkc123,

Yeah, it just didn't happen. If anything, he portrayed the city of New Orleans as one victim - it's citizens of every race and creed suffering under a larger inept government. Poverty was, and continues to be, the sorting criteria for who suffers the most.

His sword fell evenly across the Army Corp. of Engineers, the Mayor's and Governor's office and, finally, almost fleetingly, the highest office in the land and those who serve immediately at his pleasure.

e

[J.R. Hudson]

Hey Eric!

Ill clarify immediately and say that my takes are based on NOT SEEING IT and in speculation. A couple times, I have made it a point to ask 'How much of the conspiracy' is in it, we don't know.'

To further be redundant, my comments are in the world of this thread and the subject of that topic within this thread,

I'm in accord with what I assume most people fall; the government at every level dropped the ball hard on this one. A tradegy. A human moment of flat out despair and sadness and shock.

I think in the forum shorthand many of our intentions get hidden away as we type in haste to get to the next post.

On Spike:

It seems one hears nothing but controversy from this filmmaker, whether he's critisizing the federal gvovenrment, the local government, society, tv, the industry that feeds him, popular music ......

Everything is about oppression and racism it seems with him. He never comes across as a postive light in that realm, but a negative reminder, constantly hammering that racsim is alive and well.

His lawsuit on Spike TV saying they could not use that name showed us how egotistical he is.

I dont consider him a racist in the traditional sense, but I do consider him a crusader whose energy is spent in the wrong areas. He is less than a positive infleunce.

Its like I am aware of racsim in this country and I find it a terrible thing we have to live with in society, but this guy wont let it rest it seems. Its always about that card with him. It seems everything he does has that agenda.

Sometimes I wonder if he is helping the cause, or just creating disssent.

QUOTES LIKE


I don't put anything past the US government. I don't find it too far-fetched that they tried to displace all the black people out of New Orleans."

Just can only divide, don't ya think ? Will Spike ever try and bring the people together or will he simply continue to point the finger and make the racist card appear time and time again ?

Hmm

I think someone like Martin Luther King rasied awareness the right way, whereas someone like Malcolm X did not. I feel that Spike leans on the curve of Malcolm.

Maybe that makes sense? Of course, this is my opinion based on my perceived persona of the man. I do not profess to being the SPIKE MASTA like say on the subject of Tarantino.

I think if I met Spike Lee, I would have great reservation in taking him in in an immediate capacity. I'd be very hesitant due to my impressoins (which of course could be far off base)

ON the subject of his talent?

I have only seen

School Daze
Loved Do the Right Thing
Jungle Fever
Malcolm X
Summer of Sam

and liked all of them. I do wonder if he;ll ever do anything that is not agenda driven. (It is ofcourse okay if he does not)

[Jared Meyer]

Good post, John. I agree with your assessment of the man.
Spike's most recent feature, "Inside Man," comes to mind as the only movie of his not based on controversial material. Good flick, too.

I would like to point out the obvious fact that this thread is a perfect example of what Spike's comments have achieved. He could have kept cool in the interviews and let it be about the doc; now, however, the conspiracy theories will factor into every discussion of his project.

I am the one who brought it up in this thread, and I could very well not have - but I think it is important to know where the "documentarian" is coming from, (not just Spike, ANY documentary filmmaker) especially when that stance might not be as logical or impartial as one would expect.

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

If it keeps on rainin', levee's going to break
If it keeps on rainin', levee's going to break
A-when the levee breaks, have no place to stay

Mean old levee, taught me to weep and moan and moan
Mean old levee, taught me to weep and moan
It's got what it takes to make a mountain-man leave his home
Oh, well-a, oh, well-a, oh, well-a, ooh-ooh

A-don't it make ya feel bad
when you're tryin' to find your way home
and ya don't know which way to go
If you're goin' down south and they've no work to do
then ya go north to Chicago, ah, 'eah, 'eah, hey

Cryin' won't help ya, prayin' won't do ya no good
Now, cryin' won't help ya, prayin' won't do ya no good
A-when the levee breaks, mama, you got to move, a-woo-hoo

All last night, sat on the levee and moaned
All last night, sat on the levee and moaned
Thinkin' 'bout my baby and my happy home, oh-hoh

Ah-ah-ah, ah-ah-ah, ah-ah-ah, ha
Ah-ah-ah, ah-ah-ah, ah-ah-ah, ha
Oh, oh
Goin', I'm goin' to Chicago, goin' to Chicago
Sorry, but I can't take you
Goin' down, goin' down, now, goin' down, a-goin' down, now
Goin' down, goin' down, goin' down, goin' down, yeahh
Goin' down, goin' down, now, goin' down, goin' down, now
Goin' down, goin' down, now, goin' down
Goin' down, down, down, down, down
Ooh-woo-ooh, ooh-woo-ooh

[Erik Olson]

SpikeTV... yeah. That was an amazing stretch there. If anything, I'd say the SpikeTV people should have been worried over the reverse-association!

I'm not a fan of Spike Lee's films - any of them really. I always thought I just didn't get New York. Might be.

That quote that is attributed to Mr. Lee about the government choosing to douse the black community to save the French Quarter isn't attributed to Mr. Lee as far as I could tell from watching the doc - at least not as a part of the piece. I think that voice-over narrative came from Winton Marsalis?

Could be wrong here, but the only crack I heard from Mr. Lee through the whole thing was as an AP during an interview with a white man who talked ad nauseum about the number of weapons he had at-hand when he returned to New Orleans.

It was a poignant and funny moment within the larger story of violence and rioting that the picture covered for less than ten or so minutes. I would not say that undue or slanted attention was lavished on the myriad "rioting" stories reported by outlets like CNN on days 7 - 10.

e

[specialed]

bravo overland, glad someone else enjoyed it as much as i did.

i never really payed attention to the fiasco as it was happening, so it was really nice to take a look and see what actually happened.

[MOVIE STUNTS]

Gotta say Inside man and some of his other films are pretty good. I saw this doc yesterday and i truly believe.... rap music is to blame. Oh and the hurricane, and the mayor "a black man" who did dick all when he knew there were problems. Course he didn't live in the french quarter.
Alot of misinformed people out there, who will believe anything the media tells them.

[Isaac_Brody]

Spike's been misquoted since the beginning of his career. I'm not a huge fan of his work, I think the characterizations in his films lack depth. I think this is the case because Spike is big on exploring issues, for example societal myths and stereotypes. His characters tend to illustrate those stereotypes and I don't think he fully develops his characters.

I just read a book on his interviews and it made me look at him differently. It's too easy to just dismiss and say he hates white people or he's a racist. He doesn't. Check out this book:

Spike Lee: Interviews (Conversations With Filmmakers Series)

http://www.amazon.com/Spike-Lee-Interviews-Conversations-Filmmakers/dp/1578064708/sr=8-1/qid=1157296020/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-9121245-7805434?ie=UTF8&s=books

I read this book and realized how much of what he says is taken out of context. He's a strong personality, and those are the easiest to tear down. I'm halfway through watching Levee's and pretty much agree with Overland's assessment. He's pretty much just given the citizens of New Orleans a platform to air their grievances. We're not hearing a lot of these voices right now and it's important.

And Spike is very responsibile with his documentary work. His documentary 4 Little Girls, about the bombing of a black church during the Civil Rights movement is very well done.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118540/

I don't think it's smart to believe everything you read. Spike is an easy target because he has strong opinions and isn't afraid to express them. If you just read what's printed, he comes off like a zealot. This thread is pretty slanderous so I'll bring it to a close...