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NGC
08-28-2006, 09:01 AM
I have loved my Panasonic DV cameras. But I know that High Definition is the future. The HVX is a wonderful camera but completely impractical and expensive for my Event shooting needs. Before I bight the bullet and switch to the more practical Sony Z1 has Panasonic any plans for an HDV camera along the lines of the DVX models?

Barry_Green
08-28-2006, 09:13 AM
Panasonic will never produce an HDV model. But then again, Sony will probably never produce another HDV model either; both companies have launched a new format called AVC-HD. It combines long recording times with tapeless acquisition (Sony uses spinning DVDs, Panasonic has announced they'll record to regular memory cards).

Nobody knows what types of products Panasonic will come out with. Sony's already announced a couple of AVC-HD models but they're very simplistic basic consumer models. I don't think Panasonic would go that way -- AVC-HD is everything HDV was, and a whole lot more, so I expect them to produce a product that fully delivers on the format's promise. But they haven't given any indication as to what they plan to do as far as AVC-HD goes.

AVC-HD isn't perfect, it's still a highly-compressed long-GOP recording format with 4:2:0 color sampling. So it's very much like HDV, only far more efficient encoding and better audio, plus it's cross-manufacturer-compatible.

Brandon Rice
08-28-2006, 09:18 AM
It's Panny's answer to the A1 from Canon?

Barry_Green
08-28-2006, 09:35 AM
Nobody knows. They haven't announced their plans for AVC-HD, other than to say that they'll be recording to SD cards (in addition to disc, presumably?)

STORYTELLER32
08-28-2006, 09:48 AM
Panasonic has announced they'll record to regular memory cards).


Barry, do you have any more details on the type of memory cards? I'm assuming you don't mean P2 here, right? Is it more like flash memory cards?

Brandon Rice
08-28-2006, 09:49 AM
cool, it'd be neat to see a new AVC-HD cam from panny, maybe to replace the DVX?

Barry_Green
08-28-2006, 09:49 AM
Barry, do you have any more details on the type of memory cards? I'm assuming you don't mean P2 here, right? Is it more like flash memory cards?

Standard off-the-shelf SD memory cards, just like you'd find in your cell phone or digital camera.

Barry_Green
08-28-2006, 09:52 AM
cool, it'd be neat to see a new AVC-HD cam from panny, maybe to replace the DVX?

Well, maybe. I mean, the DVX is still selling so they're in no rush to replace it, but I'd like to see them shovel the HVX chipset and an AVC-HD encoder into the DVX body and call it the HVX100. I think it'd be a huge seller.

I don't know that I would use it, I'm no fan of long-GOP encoding. But for those who are finding HDV acceptable, I can't see why they wouldn't be thrilled at AVC-HD, which is over twice as efficient at encoding as HDV is, plus it's full-raster (no prefiltering/scaling going on) and it includes true 24p in both the 1080 and 720 modes, plus uncompressed audio in 7.1 channels or dolby digital AC-3 encoding in 5.1 channels.

Brandon Rice
08-28-2006, 09:56 AM
Sounds like a winner all around... though I have my reservations about the HDV format as well, and may just go to the full HD of the HVX, or RED (I'm dreamin')

donkathon
08-28-2006, 02:58 PM
A Z1? Dont go there... stick with Canon or Panny, cause Sony is bound to screw you.

STORYTELLER32
08-29-2006, 01:32 AM
Standard off-the-shelf SD memory cards, just like you'd find in your cell phone or digital camera.


If they're able to do that, then why have P2 at all? Why is it so expensive? Flash memory cards come in 4gb cards for around $70.00 now. :furious3:

Sorry, just hate feeling like we're getting fleeced.

Noel Evans
08-29-2006, 02:17 AM
I have loved my Panasonic DV cameras. But I know that High Definition is the future. The HVX is a wonderful camera but completely impractical and expensive for my Event shooting needs. Before I bight the bullet and switch to the more practical Sony Z1 has Panasonic any plans for an HDV camera along the lines of the DVX models?

Check out the Canon A1 thread in other cams.

chulo
08-29-2006, 05:46 PM
you sound like the guy at weva last week...are you...i couldnt agree with you more...the hvx is definetly not an event camera...to costly to shoot in hd...but maybe thats just me...i would love love love nothing more then to own this camera but for somethings its just not the right camera

razamalik
09-01-2006, 10:26 PM
Well, maybe. I mean, the DVX is still selling so they're in no rush to replace it, but I'd like to see them shovel the HVX chipset and an AVC-HD encoder into the DVX body and call it the HVX100. I think it'd be a huge seller.

I don't know that I would use it, I'm no fan of long-GOP encoding. But for those who are finding HDV acceptable, I can't see why they wouldn't be thrilled at AVC-HD, which is over twice as efficient at encoding as HDV is, plus it's full-raster (no prefiltering/scaling going on) and it includes true 24p in both the 1080 and 720 modes, plus uncompressed audio in 7.1 channels or dolby digital AC-3 encoding in 5.1 channels.


Thats the camera i'd be waiting to see (besides RED offcourse!!), if Panny go along with that how long of AVC-HD video would say a 8GB P2/SD card hold?

Barry_Green
09-02-2006, 12:47 AM
Keep in mind this is all complete speculation -- there is no reason to believe that such a product is actually under development! (although I think they'd be silly not to!)You get 5x as much AVC-HD as you do DVCPRO-HD (in the highest-quality mode). So an 8gb card could hold 40 minutes of AVC-HD in premium quality. But AVC-HD is scalable; I believe the Sonys offer 15mbps, 12mbps, 9mbps, even down to 5mbps. If you really, really needed long record times, you could drop to 5mbps and get 4x as much recording per gig, or about 2.5 hours of AVC-HD on a single 8gb card.

razamalik
09-02-2006, 10:43 AM
thanks Barry it would make perfect sense to have a Camera like HVX add AVC-HD for more usability, it'd be kinda like your DSLR you get Raw you get Large JPEGs & you get small JPEGs opening up more options for you.... Now i would see DVC PRO HD as the Big Large Jpeg & AVCHD as the small brother for those long shoots... Raw would be nice but i guess we can live with effecient compression that saves us loads of money when it comes to storage. & the way i see it is that if i really wanted RAW i'd go hire at least a 2/3" cam (SI CAM????) or hopefully buy RED when it comes, talking of RAW out of 1/3" dont make much sense to me.

40 mins on 8GB would be great so in a 16GB you get 40x2= 80mins which would be great news for event videographers.

Barry_Green
09-02-2006, 07:12 PM
That's the way I look at it. I hope Panasonic will see it the same way!

Jarred Land
09-02-2006, 07:41 PM
and think about when the 16gb cards roll out at the end of the year.. 160 minutes in camera. Thats pretty tasty.

Brandon Rice
09-02-2006, 09:28 PM
and think about when the 16gb cards roll out at the end of the year.. 160 minutes in camera. Thats pretty tasty.

That'll be excellent.... I'm really excited about the whole solid state revolution!

Noel Evans
09-02-2006, 10:42 PM
and think about when the 16gb cards roll out at the end of the year.. 160 minutes in camera. Thats pretty tasty.

It sure will, but at that point Id expect it to release for about $1800.... add that to a camera that is selling for about $3900, one third of the price is spent on something to capture the format. Think of someone who might buy this cam... event videographer etc. Shoot a wedding: usually 4 and abit hours of footage, would require 2 cards. I think thats less viable for most people buying a cam at that end. Just like the XL2 it has optional lenses but very few bought them because of cost and they were about 1k?

On the HVX I can completely understand it. Your paying for a DVCPRO cam at a higher price.

If panasonic wants to push p2 further then the price must come down. But of course its like anything: supply vs demand.

My point is I think if Panasonic cant bring the cost of p2 down, then they need to add another aquisition method to the cam, the SD card option would still get expensive as you would need a few but much cheaper.

fantasticfilm
09-18-2006, 03:40 AM
I think the new codec is going to be aimed at prosumers and perhaps we will see it in a tapeless HVX in the near future. However I don't expect Panasonic is going to turn it's back on the current HVX Codec since it is more a step in the right direction but before the sun comes up!
What I mean is that in the near future the cost of the P2 are gonna scale and it is not going to be a cost issue. Of course it may not seem like that for many of us but I was at the Broadcast show in Beijing early August which was 1 month ahead of IBC and they announced the new AVC HD codec there along with a mock up of P2 cards going from 8GB - 100GB in 2010 or something like that!

Therefore the AVC HD is probably going to be replacing the DV tapes in all their camcorders and we will have that "option" on the future gen HVX or whatever.

My guess is you are going to have a scene setting for the AVC HD and use it when you are in the field and need to maximize storage.

Ummmmmm yes this is all useless speculation -but it is a case of shooting the fish in the barrel till Panasonic give some concrete indication of what they plan to do....

pffzt zzzip it!

david

Zim
09-18-2006, 06:16 PM
A Z1? Dont go there... stick with Canon or Panny, cause Sony is bound to screw you.


Might wait and see what the new V1 is all about. 24P?

The new Canon's too.

tbanucci
09-19-2006, 03:13 AM
I really like the idea of AVC-HD being integrated into the HVX. Think about it, Panny would sell a ton of these cameras because the event videographer would finally jump aboard on the HVX, and they would be able to use the same camera for corporate videography or movies using the pure HD side of it. There would be no reason to go with the DVX anymore so pretty much everyone and their mothers would upgrade.

I mean- SD would be useless if this all-in-wonder HVX were to exist...

epicedium
09-21-2006, 08:10 AM
Hmm .. but you're all talking as if the HVX is the best-of-breed camera that is only being held back by it's storage method ... It's a great cam, but it's far from perfect .. chips are pretty low res, low light leaves a lot to be desired...

personally I'm feeling that the stakes are being stepped up fairly quickly-- I think that the A1/G1 and V1 cams show that the manufacturers are starting to take this seriously- competition is definitely getting healthier.

The next-gen cams should be really exciting. Hopefully Solidstate/HardDisk recording, full-frame progressive scanning, HD native full-res sensors, AVC-based cams really won't be far away.

I think that all current prosumer HD cams will look very "transitional HD" in a year's time. The HVX will probably most closely match future-trends, but be let down by it's sensors and "before it's time" aquisition media. The Canon H1 -> firestore is probably the best taster of things to come (great glass, high res native chips).

Kris

Eric Papa
09-21-2006, 09:07 AM
Panasonic will never produce an HDV model. But then again, Sony will probably never produce another HDV model either.


I would have to disagree. Sony just dropped there new HVR-V1E.
HDV with 24p.

daveswan
09-21-2006, 09:19 AM
Myself, I'm a little leary of long GOP compression for aquisition, so will stay with DVCPro HD. I'm not too worried about reletivly lo-res chips, after all, in the stills digital world shoving more megapixels into ever-smaller chips is usually a recipe for noise and the delivered resolution is often no better then a lower pixel-count chip, probably 1920x1080 is best left to bigger chips with decent sized photosites.
thinking........didn't I read somewhere that someone was working on a Foveon type sensor. Now that would make sense in asingle chip cam.

Zim
09-21-2006, 09:51 AM
I would have to disagree. Sony just dropped there new HVR-V1E.
HDV with 24p.


It is starting to look like HDV is going to be around for awhile.

indigo
09-23-2006, 02:16 AM
Why is it so expensive?
Dude... just don't go there! :(

Indy... in India!