Perfect settings????

[UncleBenji1977]

Ok, so I own the DVX100, NOT the 100a....If anyone could help me out, please let me know what you feel are the perfect settings to achieve the 35mm look or as close as I can get at least. I've got my own personal settings, and have tinkered and tested quite a bit. I just want to see if anyone has done anything I may have overlooked! Thanks! =)

[Barry_Green]

The problem with your question is, you don't specify which film look you're going after. Film stocks look different from each other. 5298 looks different from 5274. 5277 looks *way* different from either of them. There is no such thing as a generic 35mm look.

You have to determine what look you want, and then the settings that will bring you closer to it. If you get the DVX DVD (at http://www.dvxuser.com/articles/dvxbook/) you'll find that I included a section on scene file settings that includes replicating about a dozen of the Magic Bullet Movie Looks settings. That might be a place to start.

[UncleBenji1977]

Gotcha..... Sorry. I'm not all that familiar with film as much as I am with video. Plenty of experience as a videographer. So I guess my question you, Barry, is does the book cover just the DVX100A, or the DVX100? Thanks!

[pookie_old]

Sell the book, don't give an answer.

Dissapointing Barry.

[Barry_Green]

It covers both cameras.

As far as the film look thing, it's a big confusing world. Simulating the film stock is only the beginning of the process... most movies in the theaters go through some signficant production techniques (lighting, etc) to make them look a certain way, and then some extensive post-production techniques (a Digital Intermediate for color correction, perhaps, or just conventional color timing, and perhaps something like a skip-bleach process, etc...) That's why Magic Bullet for Editors posted the looks they did as named after the movies that popularized the look... so if someone likes the look of Three Kings, or Traffic, then MBE has a one-click preset to simulate that look. And that's what I tried to emulate in-camera using the camera's settings.

[David Jimerson]

Sell the book, don't give an answer.

Dissapointing Barry.

Given the exceptionally non-specific nature of the question, he answered it as much as it could be without listing a host of possible settings combinations -- which still might not address exactly what the questioner was after.

Considering the extraordinary wealth of information Barry has given at length and in detail 'round these parts, for free, some at considerable expense to himself, I think cutting him a little slack is in order . . .

[Barry_Green]

Er... Pookie... I thought I *did* answer the question.

How do you define the ultimate settings for a 35mm look? *You can't. *Every 35mm movie looks different. So I said, basically, "if you were to look on this DVD, you might find a look you like, and use those settings."

If he had asked a specific question, like "how do I get the colors to really pop", I would have been able to give a specific answer (like I have in the past -- I've repeatedly given out exact menu setting recipes before). *But that wasn't asked, and what was asked cannot be answered because there is no one set answer.

And I don't think it was a "hard sell" either... I suggested that he could "look at the DVD and see what you like" and "that MIGHT be a place to start". *Nowhere did I say "go buy my product, it is the only way, you will be lost without it". *I only offered it as an option to be considered, because it may genuinely be what UncleBenji1977 needs to see -- the different looks in action, so he can pick one.

[pookie_old]

Er...Barry... you answered with Magic Bullet Movie Looks, he is clearly looking for "camera" settings.


As you're quite clearly the best authority hands down with regards to the DVX on these forums, I don't think a few "general", or your personal "favorite" film type settings would have been out of order to help UncleBenji1977 get moving in the right direction.

Now, before the multitude of "where are your's" jibes that are sure to appear, I don't go after a 35mm look, I use film cameras when I'm looking for a "film" look. I use the DVX for a multitude of "video" uses, so I have no settings to offer.

I'm still disappointed.....[as] there have been previous posts where people advised buying your book, rather than offering help, and you yourself said that wasn't in the "spirit" of DVXuser.com.

I appreciate you're in an unusual position of wanting to sell your book, and wanting to answer questions here, so giving out that same information for free here, could cause a "conflict" so to speak, ie: why buy Barry's book, when I can pump him for the info here, for free.

A "catch22" type of conundrum for you to be sure.

[Barry_Green]

For other people, maybe. But the thing is, I'd say 90+ percent of the info in the book is ALREADY ON THIS FORUM. There are very few things, if any, "held back" -- it's just that in the book and DVD format it's so infinitely easier to present the material. Plus, when approaching the book as a comprehensive volume, it's a lot easier to expand and expound, whereas on the web we usually only go a few paragraphs before running out of space.

The reason I brought up Magic Bullet Movie Looks is, there's a way that you can identify a look you like. Then the DVD offers a segment that shows what you get using MBML, and then what settings I used to replicate those looks. It shows the "before" (i.e., the stock settings, all zeroes), and then the "after", so you can see what the look actually does.

I don't know of a way to offer that info without doing something like that. People seem to approach the idea of settings by just saying "give me the right settings", but if they don't know what it looks like without 'em, and what it looks like with 'em, then where's the value? How can you know what you want when you don't know what you've got, or what you can have? You've got to see a bunch.

With that said, my favorite general look is usually something like chroma level +2 or +3, detail level 0, phase 0, a.iris -2, master ped -6, cinegamma, cine matrix. With that you get really saturated colors and a deep rich black contrast level. It's not quite as extreme as the "color reversal" preset on the DVD, but it's more general purpose and it provides what I think is a pleasing look. But is it a 35mm look? I don't know. As Jon Fordham says, "you show me what film looks like, and I'll tell you how to get it".

[pookie_old]

Hi Barry, I follow your point, and understand that the info wanted is somewhat "general", but your last paragraph seems to be the "idea" UncleBenji1977 was after.

I'm a Steadicam operator, and I also teach Steadicam through the SOA, and often run into the same type of "general" questions, ie: how do I set up my sled...how do I shoot low mode...how can I operate a FF without a puller, etc, etc. I show them the way "I" do it, they are then able to modify my methods by using them as a starting point. No one ever works, or see's, things the same way, but if I show them what works for me, they have a "solid" setup to work from. I think UncleBenji1977 was after the same "this works for me" settings, from the more experienced members, always good way to learn.

Now, as far as Jon Fordham's "you show me what film looks like, and I'll tell you how to get it", I agree. As I said, when I want a film look, I use my ARRI, (not that very many people have such an option), and if I couldn't shoot that way, I may very well ask the type of question as UncleBenji1977.

As far as no "generic" film look, that's not quite correct, shooting F5 or F6 does give a "general" film look out of the box, and tweaking does improve the "look", as you showed in your last post.

I'll gladly answer any Steadicam questions, and have tried to do just that, that's why I originally came here. I'm a regular on the various Steadicam forums, as well as a number of film schools intranets, the idea I follow is, everyone needs help, I started with the same "how do I do it" years ago.

Finally, with respect to your "90+ percent of the info in the book is ALREADY ON THIS FORUM", it most likely is, but, finding it through a "search" is often impossible, due to different wording etc. How many people ask about the "clunk, rattle, noise, something's loose, something's broken", yet every one of them is asking about the exact same problem?

[GuRamalho]

So maybe this is the place for my question: I'm going to shoot a short where what I realy want is a, how can I say, mono-chromatic look. I recently bought my DVX, but already feel confort with it's settings, but I've noticed it's quite hard to get this mono-chromatic look I'm looking for. Well I know I can achieve this look on post but I'd realy like to find out a way to make it in the camera, also because it's a very low budget, not to say "no budget at all" kind of film. So Barry, would you know a way to achieve this mono-look on camera?

Ps: I'd like to have your book/DVD, how can I buy it from Brazil?

Thank's :-/

[Barry_Green]

You can't get monochromatic in the DVX. *You can lower the color saturation (chroma level -7, matrix normal, etc) but it won't come anywhere near to being completely monochromatic. *Now, if you want it to be a specific color, and biased towards a specific color (like all blue or all orange) you can get somewhat close to that; here's a blue-ish settings file so you can see what's possible:
http://www.dvxuser.com/articles/dvxbook/book/Magical%20Projectile%20Filmic%20Cool%20(WinCE).jpg
Here's an orange-ish settings file of the same shot:
http://www.dvxuser.com/articles/dvxbook/book/Magical%20Projectile%20Filmic%20Warm%20(WinCE).jpg

But blue & orange are about all I can help you get. *If you want black 'n' white, or sepia, something like that, well... that's a look you'll have to get in post (either by tweaking the color correction settings in your editing program, or by using something like a Magic Bullet preset, etc).

As for ordering in Brazil, we ship 'em everywhere, I'm pretty sure I've sent to Brazil (but I think Global Priority Mail only goes to two cities in Brazil, probably Rio and Sao Paulo, not sure... so if you're in one of those two, it's no problem). *So you can order through Paypal by clicking on the link below, or by going to Amazon and ordering from there. *Thanks for asking! :)

[GuRamalho]

Thank's Barry, I see what you mean. I liked the blue you showed me, that's propably what I was thinking. You see, I live in São Paulo where the film takes place, it's a very grey city, we're shooting a Kafka story, cold, that's why going monochromatic seems to be a good choice, not sepia, BW, total blue, but monochromatic with soft blue tones and I think that's what you got up there. I'll also work with the art direction and wardrobe so we can get this tone together. So Barry, in order to find the answer I'd love to run some tests, so could you spread the blue setting you showed us above?

Thank's very much for your help an time spent!

Gu.
*

[Barry_Green]

just out of interest, what are the prices of filming on 35mm film? i Know its VERY high, but im not sure of a figure.
Depends on how you go about it. You can rent a top-of-the-line camera for $1200/day, buy brand new film stock, get it processed at a top lab, get it transferred to video on a $900/hr Millennium, and end up spending somewhere around $130 per minute of footage.

Or, you can buy an Eyemo or Konvas off ebay, get some short-end film for 10c/ft, process it at FilmWorks for 10c/ft, get it transferred on a Rank for $150/hr, and end up with genuine 35mm film footage on tape for under $25/minute.

If you can find a TechniScope camera, you can cut that film stock/processing budget in half, by shooting 2-perf film at 2.35:1 aspect ratio for maybe $12/minute. So a 10-minute short film, shot at a 3:1 ratio, could be theoretically done on 35mm film for a total cost of maybe $360.

I shot a series of commercials for the BBB on 35mm on an Eyemo, using $60 of ebay film. I think the total film, processing, and transfer charge was under $400. Ended up with an Emmy and three Emmy nominations off it. So 35mm can be fairly cheap, or it can be expensive.

[Barry_Green]

That setting was:
Detail -7
Chroma Leve -7
Chroma Phase +7
Color Temp +7
Master Ped -4
A. Iris +4
Gamma Norm
Matrix Norm

[robeditor2003]

Barry,

You posted the below setting what are they for meaning look:

hat setting was: *
Detail -7
Chroma Leve -7
Chroma Phase +7
Color Temp +7
Master Ped -4
A. Iris +4
Gamma Norm
Matrix Norm

thanks,

rob

[Barry_Green]

Those were the settings I used to get the blue filmlike sort-of-monochromatic look discussed earlier in this thread.

[GuRamalho]

Perfect Barry, Thank you very much for the great tip! That's pretty much what I was looking for. My only changes were: color temp. +6 to get less blue, master ped -6 and auto iris -1 because I want more contrast. It realy looks great for the purpose. It's monochromatic, buy still has some color tones, reds and yelows are still there, softened. And most important: the skin is not blue, Perfect! *;D

Only one more question: Will this choice be a problem in a future transfer? That's very important… thank's again.

[Barry_Green]

A future transfer... meaning, a film transfer? I can't think of why any of these settings would make for problems with a film transfer...

[GuRamalho]

Thank's then!

[robeditor2003]

Barry,

last question i thiink. You posted the below settings. Can you tell me what "meaning what film would you say it comes close to" or if you have anything I can see that you shot with these settings


"With that said, my favorite general look is usually something like chroma level +2 or +3, detail level 0, phase 0, a.iris -2, master ped -6, cinegamma, cine matrix. *With that you get really saturated colors and a deep rich black contrast level. *It's not quite as extreme as the "color reversal"

[greeches]

http://www.dvfilm.com/faq.htm

I also remember seeing a scene file setting for optimal transfer to film, but counldnt' find it at the moment

[Barry_Green]

last question i thiink. You posted the below settings. Can you tell me what "meaning what film would you say it comes close to" or if you have anything I can see that you shot with these settings
I wasn't trying to emulate any specific film with those settings, I just find them to produce a pleasing picture. I think most of the DVX DVD host segments were shot with those settings, or something close to them.