F5 or F6??

[GuRamalho]

Simple question: F5 is exact the same as F6?
Because in the manual says: F5, file containing settings suited to shooting in the progressive 24P mode while on F6 it says for the progressive 24P advanced mode… well, I thought both F5 and F6 were the same, only different settings, so if you want to shoot 24P adv. you must go F6? What about the 24P adv. setting on F5?

Thank's.

[smkoch]

These are all original settings as provided by the manufacturer, You can at anytime change and manipulate the settings for each button the way that you want to have your camera set put 24p on f1 whatever, change the black level etc. If you really screw it up, there's a reset to revert them back to there original settings.

[Jan_Crittenden]

Is your unit PAL or NTSC?

[GuRamalho]

NTSC.

[kmcgrath]

As I recall, default F5 records dv adding 2,3 pulldown ("stardard 24p"), and F6 adds 2,3,3,2 pulldown ("advanced 24P", which can be removed leaving no judder frames, unlike the 2,3 pulldown). I hope I don't have this reversed, but I think this is correct. Check the manual to be sure...

[Jan_Crittenden]

F5 from the factory is 2:3 pulldown and F6 is 2:3:3:2. Which to use? If editing for 60i release, then 2:3. If wanting to edit in 24P for film or you can add the 2:3 pulldown back in after the edit, then 2:3:3:2. Just know that if you shoot in 2:3:3:2 or as it is known 24PA, you have to extract the 24 frames before you edit.

Hope that helps,

Jan

[GuRamalho]

So let me get this: Fs are all the same as far as settings concern, right? The tricky question here is: (basicaly okay) shooting 24PA meens you can't edit for regular TV? What if there's only a slight possibility of transfering and big screen release? I mean, what if the main purpose is video festivals and screenings? Because that's my case, so should I shoot 24P? ???

[ulisses]

Both are doing the pullup from 24 to 30 FPS, so you have 30 FPS anyway and you can edit in a 60i timeline, both you can do the pull down to remove the fields and come back to 24 FPS.

In 30 FPS (F for full frame, f for fields):

24P: FFF ff FFF ff FFF ff FFF ff FFF ff FFF ff (less full frames)
24PA: FF f FF f FF f FF f FF f FF f FF f FF f FF f FF f (more full frames)

So 24P should be smoother in NTSC 60i. more fields per second.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Ulisses

[Loki]

allow me to esplain the different 24p modes..

F5: 24p using 2:3:2:3 pulldown. (A,B,C,D) are all frames in the 24p stream. To record onto the tape the camera will pulldown extra frames from that to conform to the 60i stream of the mini-dv tape.

so those 4 frames than become: AA BB BC CD DD, you now have 5 frames created from 4, but you have several frames in there mixed from information from some other frames.

F6: 24PA works differently. It also does a pulldown to conform to 60i recording on the tape, but it's pull down is 2:3:3:2, which creates a pattern like this:

AA BB BC CC DD, notice here there is only 1 frame with mixed fields.

So both modes are recorded to 60i, and can be editied on a 60i Timeline, but if you are outputing to 60i shooting in F5 will be easier. If you want to get those actual 24 frames from the 60i, capture with a pulldown removal. The only difference between those two modes are the way they are captured onto the tape.

All the scene files have the same basic setup but with small details changed, like framerate, gamma etc..

[Barry_Green]

Guys, the only thing you have to remember is this:
If editing on a 60i timeline, shoot 24PN (2:3)

If editing on a 24p timeline, shoot 24PA (2:3:3:2)

Everything else will take care of itself.

[ulisses]

Now an extra question.

If editing in a 24P timeline and the edited movie will be transfered to film, first I need to record the edited movie in a tape right ?
Recording in a tape we're using 60i, so 24PN in DVX ?

I hope I could explain it :)
Ulisses

[Barry_Green]

You don't necessarily have to record out to tape first. It depends on your film transfer house. DVFilm can take an uncompressed quicktime file on hard disk, or a sequence of still frames, or a 24PA DV tape... just ask your film transfer house.

[GuRamalho]

Right, so I'm editing on final-cut, which I assume is 60i. You are saying I MUST shoot 24P? And the F modes are all the same, I.E.: if I set any F mode as F6, it will be doing the same thing that F6 does, right? I'm sorry if the editing question is stupid, I"m not familiar with editing process…

[Barry_Green]

No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying you can shoot whatever mode you like, and edit it however you like, however, there are some small advantages to each mode depending on what your edit workflow will be.

FCP4 and above have the ability to edit 24p footage natively. So if you're using FCP4, FCP4.5, FCP-HD, or the forthcoming FCP5, you have the choice. So you can shoot 24p if you like the look, or shoot 60i if you like that look.

If you're wanting to shoot 24p for the look of 24p, and you know you're going to be editing it in a pure 24p timeline, then there are some advantages to shooting in 24PA mode. If you're not sure whether you'll be editing in a 24p timeline, or if you know for a fact you'll be editing in a 60i timeline, go ahead and shoot 24PN.

If you decide later that you want to edit in a 24p timeline, you can still do that from 24PN footage too. It doesn't lock you in one way or the other. But it's a little more efficient to edit 24P timelines from 24PA footage, vs. from 24PN footage.

[GuRamalho]

Right, so if I don't know what timeline will be used I should go 24P. Thank's again Barry.