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View Full Version : Some features of the canon A1



Noel Evans
08-12-2006, 08:11 AM
Thought I would drop this here as its kind of interesting and many people dont visit the OTHER CAMERAS section.

But apart from the usual this cam has the fillowing shutter speeds when shooting 24f

1/3 seconds, 1/6 seconds, 1/12 seconds, 1/24 seconds, 1/48 seconds, 1/60 seconds, 1/75 seconds, 1/90 seconds, 1/100 seconds, 1/120 seconds, 1/150 seconds, 1/180 seconds, 1/210 seconds, 1/250 seconds, 1/300 seconds, 1/360 seconds, 1/420 seconds, 1/500 seconds, 1/600 seconds, 1/720 seconds, 1/840 seconds, 1/1000 seconds, 1/1200 seconds, 1/1400 seconds, 1/1700 seconds, 1/2000 seconds, 1/2300 seconds, 1/2600 seconds, 1/3000 seconds, 1/4000 seconds, 1/8000 seconds, 1/15000 seconds. 1/15000 ? What the ....you would need a 2k 3 metres away to light something...maybe still not enough? 1/3 cool man!

DUAL SPEED FOCUS-RING CTRL
(Focusing ring response) NORMAL and SLOW

Focus meter that tells you what the optimum focal length (distance) is based on your MF setting. Plus the Iris ring... sweet.

Forgive me for saying but this baby is jam packed full of fe atures that are actually useful. Will Panasonic respond? Heres hoping cause the market will only get better for everyone. :costumed-smiley-047

Kirk Gillock
08-12-2006, 08:20 AM
The only thing I found on a Canon A1 was an SLR still camera and this old Canon hi-8 videocamera.

http://i8.ebayimg.com/02/i/07/f7/3d/e1_1.JPG

Noel Evans
08-12-2006, 08:24 AM
LMAO I did the same thing first search try here:

Translated version of Japanese Canon Page - http://www.xlcinema.com/XH/translate2.html

Terry_Lasater
08-12-2006, 08:26 AM
What the ....you would need a 2k 3 metres away to light something...maybe still not enough? 1/3 cool man!


You'd most likely need an accessory light known as the Sun to use those shutter speeds. Although no one owns the Sun, it shows up fairly regularly for free usage.

donkathon
08-12-2006, 08:26 AM
What is the A1's lowest lux rating?

scharky
08-12-2006, 09:31 AM
I hate to say it, but as I've been sitting on the fence for a while about my next camera, but I have to say that I'm heavily leaning towards the XH A1. While HDV is not ideal for color correction, with the the right post workflow I have found it actually quite forgiving and in some cases has much more flexibility than does dv. I'm just amazed by some of the footage that the XL H1 has produced and if this camera can hold it's own against that camera the price really can't be beat.

Noel Evans
08-12-2006, 10:16 AM
scharkey I totally agree..... well Ive ordered mine so hopefully I can get some stuff up before others take the plunge, but as it is with these things Im hoping it delivers as expected. Elton sent me some XLh1 raw footage I took it through streamclip into fcp and on my 42inch plasma was just amazing, did 5 different versions of cc and it held up beautifully.

donkathon
08-12-2006, 02:20 PM
I read that focus and zoom will be via servo. I may be wrong, but if im right, wouldnt that suck, huh. I dont trust the source though.

scharky
08-12-2006, 03:51 PM
Oh I have no doubt, the DVX focus is via servo as well. Personally, not a big deal, as I have yet to use the zoom other than to frame a shot, and the focus seems to be very nicely delt with on the A1 as you not only have LCD distance readouts but also repeatable focus and two types of sensitivity. Not bad canon.

Elton
08-12-2006, 04:42 PM
As crazy as it sounds, as far as HDV goes, the A1 is probably going to be *even better* than the H1, because it will have finer incremental control of just about every aspect of the image. The lens will be improved, the processing...the works. The only thing that won't be better is the simple fact that you won't be able to change the lens, or be shoulder mounted. Believe it or not, I know that Canon monitors these boards even if they don't participate (yes, even DVXuser) and they have learned a lot about what people want improved and I think these little cameras are going to be serious contenders.

I predict the A1 will be the new DVX.

scharky
08-12-2006, 07:24 PM
I agree Elton. The image control just has me giddy as a school girl, I really prefer to get the look in camera rather than in post, as I don't always have control of what is being done in post, so giving so much control over the image before compression will alow shooters to make some beautiful images. Granted it takes a little more pre setup time and lots of tests, but that's the fun part right.

Elton
08-12-2006, 08:13 PM
I love the image control the H1 offers; and even though I enjoy cc I usually get very close to the exact look I want in-camera.

The Canon image control is actually very easy to master if you're even the slightest bit inclined to tweak. That said, if the new cameras are anything like the H1 (they will be) they'll also be super easy in auto-mode.

Kholi
08-12-2006, 08:44 PM
As crazy as it sounds, as far as HDV goes, the A1 is probably going to be *even better* than the H1, because it will have finer incremental control of just about every aspect of the image. The lens will be improved, the processing...the works. The only thing that won't be better is the simple fact that you won't be able to change the lens, or be shoulder mounted. Believe it or not, I know that Canon monitors these boards even if they don't participate (yes, even DVXuser) and they have learned a lot about what people want improved and I think these little cameras are going to be serious contenders.

I predict the A1 will be the new DVX.

Wow. Strong prediction, Elton.

Has anyone mentioned the snap zoom and snap focus? I know that it's been a feature before, but if it's been refined on this camera it's going to be of great use. I think it sounds really neat, just kind of looking forward to that one to play with in the beginning.

I'm also interested in how soon we'll see an M2 for the A1. Saving all that freakin' money on the camera itself enables me to simply buy my own Cinematographer's package from Redrock for this cam which is exciting. I no longer have to wait for my company to do it!

Noel Evans
08-12-2006, 09:06 PM
Excellent point kholi.

Elton
08-12-2006, 10:10 PM
Wow. Strong prediction, Elton.

Wouldn't you agree it's going to take something pretty special to beat what the A1's bringin' to the table at less than $4K?

I mean, just as the HVX is like a mini-Varicam, the A1 will be like a mini-Cinealta. A compact camera with an image that gets frighteningly close to HDCAM quality.

Kholi
08-12-2006, 10:23 PM
Wouldn't you agree it's going to take something pretty special to beat what the A1's bringin' to the table at less than $4K?

I mean, just as the HVX is like a mini-Varicam, the A1 will be like a mini-Cinealta. A compact camera with an image that gets frighteningly close to HDCAM quality.

With the DVX comes the DVX's Reputation. If the A1/G1 cams generate this same phenomena, great. In fact, I'd hope it does.

At the price point I can definitely see what you're gettin' at.

tnle2
08-12-2006, 10:42 PM
The nice thing about Canon is that they have no high-end video cameras to protect against the A1/G1. A lot of people think Panasonic will come out with an AVCHD version of the DVX but I don't think they will because it would eat into sales of the HVX. The HVX is Panasonic's HD baby. They wouldn't let that happen. If they did come out with an AVCHD camera, they will have to make it different than the HVX. They will probably de-feature it somehow like leave out XLRs, imaging tweaks or focus distance readout, etc.

The more I read about the A1 the more I love it. I LOVE the lens range. If you want to go even wider there is the 0.8x HD wide converter which takes you down to 26mm! The stock battery is also suppose to last 5 hours!

http://cweb.canon.jp/prodv/accessory/img/pop/1724B001.jpg

So far the only bad things about the A1:

- Can't attach gear to lens for gear-driven follow focus (Instant Focus module physically in the way)
- Matte boxes will block Instant Focus sensor
- Wish the VF eyecup was larger like on a DVX or HVX to block out light
- Wish it was lighter like the GL2

Elton
08-12-2006, 10:57 PM
The nice thing about Canon is that they have no high-end video cameras to protect against the A1/G1.

Canon is establishing their entire HD line, and interestingly enough, I don't think they have a problem with the little cameras competing with the H1. The H1 hasn't sold a ton because of the price, and there will always be a select few that will choose it for it's major advantage--the lens options.

The reality is that Canon's learned from H1 users and from all the competing products and now they're getting serious about marketshare with the XH cams. They will make so much more $$ from this line then the H1 at it's current price point could ever dream of delivering.

It's very tempting to sell the H1 and get an A1 and maybe a G1 too. (I'm an SDI believer)

Elton
08-12-2006, 11:08 PM
Another little-known advantage of the H1, and now the new cams is using Console software and a laptop in the field. or in studio. This gives you tapeless recording with full image control directly from the computer. If you've got a high-res laptop screen you can also use it as a high-def set monitor. (Kinda/Sorta...it's still best to have a real HD monitor if possible) It basically gives you DV/HDV rack capability, but with the extremely nice bonus of full remote control over the Canon camera itself. It will also let you preview footage in high res so you can be sure of focus without lugging around a big HD monitor.

http://www.usa.canon.com/app/html/XLH1/console_software.shtml

Kholi
08-12-2006, 11:39 PM
Another little-known advantage of the H1, and now the new cams is using Console software and a laptop in the field. or in studio. This gives you tapeless recording with full image control directly from the computer. If you've got a high-res laptop screen you can also use it as a high-def set monitor. (Kinda/Sorta...it's still best to have a real HD monitor if possible) It basically gives you DV/HDV rack capability, but with the extremely nice bonus of full remote control over the Canon camera itself. It will also let you preview footage in high res so you can be sure of focus without lugging around a big HD monitor.

http://www.usa.canon.com/app/html/XLH1/console_software.shtml

YES. I forgot about that as well. The new Console Software is so perfect. It's about time that something like that became available for the specific camera.

I definitely cannot wait to start using that. I've always thought I'd love to capture straight to Hard-Drive as opposed to moving to tape first. .Which is why I think p2 is great despite it's high price-tag.

Firestore's another option, but I can't afford that. As said before, I'd rather spend my extra on a Lens Adapter.

rawfa
08-13-2006, 12:00 AM
As crazy as it sounds, as far as HDV goes, the A1 is probably going to be *even better* than the H1, because it will have finer incremental control of just about every aspect of the image. The lens will be improved, the processing...the works. The only thing that won't be better is the simple fact that you won't be able to change the lens, or be shoulder mounted. Believe it or not, I know that Canon monitors these boards even if they don't participate (yes, even DVXuser) and they have learned a lot about what people want improved and I think these little cameras are going to be serious contenders.

I predict the A1 will be the new DVX.

I agree with you, Elton. The image control on the A1 is absolutely amazing. I've seen footage from the H1 that looks VERY film like for a non progressive camera. If the A1 works even better thant the H1 (and I think it will), it'll be a clear winner for the masses and professionals.

And with that in mind, Barry could write an A1 book, wouldn't you say :)

Noel Evans
08-13-2006, 01:11 AM
And with that in mind, Barry could write an A1 book, wouldn't you say :)

Now that would be a treat........ GO ON BARRY!!!!!!! I guess if the cam is a hit then you might consider it?

I will get the canon propriety software. I am glad this cam has a tapeless (albeit connected) workflow and a tape workflow. I need to use in many variable situations so thats a big plus. If the HVX had the additional feature of HD to tape I would have bought it long ago.

Emanuel
08-13-2006, 03:45 AM
The nice thing about Canon is that they have no high-end video cameras to protect against the A1/G1. A lot of people think Panasonic will come out with an AVCHD version of the DVX but I don't think they will because it would eat into sales of the HVX. The HVX is Panasonic's HD baby. They wouldn't let that happen. If they did come out with an AVCHD camera, they will have to make it different than the HVX. They will probably de-feature it somehow like leave out XLRs, imaging tweaks or focus distance readout, etc.That's the point!


The more I read about the A1 the more I love it. I LOVE the lens range. If you want to go even wider there is the 0.8x HD wide converter which takes you down to 26mm! The stock battery is also suppose to last 5 hours!

http://cweb.canon.jp/prodv/accessory/img/pop/1724B001.jpg

So far the only bad things about the A1:

- Can't attach gear to lens for gear-driven follow focus (Instant Focus module physically in the way)
- Matte boxes will block Instant Focus sensor
- Wish the VF eyecup was larger like on a DVX or HVX to block out light
- Wish it was lighter like the GL2How is it going pal?...that's incredible man! Have you been reading my thoughts? :laugh:

Emanuel
08-13-2006, 03:55 AM
It's very tempting to sell the H1 and get an A1 and maybe a G1 too. (I'm an SDI believer)I'm afraid also a G1 reseller :laugh: 'cause of you and your tease clips too I'm there with $3,000 plus...

Emanuel
08-13-2006, 04:48 AM
Firestore's another option, but I can't afford that. As said before, I'd rather spend my extra on a Lens Adapter.Wait for the external recording device from Cineform instead the Firestore. With the G1, of course. David assures they're following the clue.

10-bit 4:2:2@5:1 compression will surely rock and, at least to me, it will be enough. I will not need to go to uncompressed but I want better than HDV and a solid future stream.

BTW, Kholi do you remember those times:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=43964

It's interesting to follow up -- it's meaningful to anyone in order to understand why we are here discussing these new babies.

Kholi
08-13-2006, 12:34 PM
Oh wow. LOL.

Yeah, sadly that project fell through. =( But I'm working on another right now.

And I don't think I'll be getting a G1, though the option to record 4:2:2 sounds really nice.

At that pricepoint it ends up being around the same as an HVX200. The thing for me between the two versions of the XH cameras is definitely the A1's price.

Drew Ott
08-13-2006, 02:05 PM
This camera is going to be sweet.

Drew Ott
08-13-2006, 02:06 PM
Do you think $4,000 will be the manufacturer price, with resellers selling for less (like $3,500), or do you think $4,000 will be what the resellers sell for?

Emanuel
08-13-2006, 02:07 PM
Oh wow. LOL.

Yeah, sadly that project fell through. =( But I'm working on another right now.

And I don't think I'll be getting a G1, though the option to record 4:2:2 sounds really nice.

At that pricepoint it ends up being around the same as an HVX200. The thing for me between the two versions of the XH cameras is definitely the A1's price.It's fair Kholi. First, I thought the same. After hearing the Canon shooters -- people like the HD-SDI master Barlow E., I've decided to go to the G1 via (HVX isn't for me mainly after that macroblocking and lower res features). With a tablet laptop I can have a portable 96 megabits 4:2:2 10-bit stream (avoiding HDV broadcast restrictions like those coming from Discovery HD) and a camcorder to the future. Otherwise, I'm very affective with my gear and if I can work with it during the next years why I might learn again how to work with new gear etc etc. It looses a lot of time that I will need for producing my content results. I'm not a geek.

Emanuel
08-13-2006, 02:13 PM
Do you think $4,000 will be the manufacturer price, with resellers selling for less (like $3,500), or do you think $4,000 will be what the resellers sell for?Who knows? But 'cause we have a mass operation I'd bet @$3,000 - $3,500 range.

Kholi
08-13-2006, 02:18 PM
Who knows? But 'cause we have a mass operation I'd bet @$3,000 - $3,500 range.

I'm thinking, realistically, 3400 to 3700. Even if it were 4k, I think I'd still be getting one sooner than later. I mean, the 4k is straight HD shooting.

You don't have to do much more than purchase a few tapes to record too.

Emanuel
08-13-2006, 02:29 PM
3400 - 3700? Yeah it can be... But you're right it will be affordable and that's what is relevant now. As Barlow said: a $4,000 Mini-CineAlta is a dream came true.

Kholi
08-13-2006, 02:59 PM
Well, I think 3k would be a bit dreaming. I mean, the HVX isn't too far beneath the MSRP. Maybe five hundred? So it's plausible to see it around 3300 or 3500 but 3000 would be pushing it hard.

Elton
08-13-2006, 03:35 PM
And I don't think I'll be getting a G1, though the option to record 4:2:2 sounds really nice.

I'm pretty sure you can get full raster uncompressed 4:2:2 from the component HD analog live signal of the A1, just like you can with an H1. I've captured this before with the Kona card and it's basically the same as the HD-SDI port. The SDI is way more convenient but the live analog HD signal is essentially the same thing so if you really needed something better than HDV for certain shots or an entire production, tapping the component output of the A1 would probably work well.

Kholi
08-13-2006, 03:59 PM
I'm pretty sure you can get full raster uncompressed 4:2:2 from the component HD analog live signal of the A1, just like you can with an H1. I've captured this before with the Kona card and it's basically the same as the HD-SDI port. The SDI is way more convenient but the live analog HD signal is essentially the same thing so if you really needed something better than HDV for certain shots or an entire production, tapping the component output of the A1 would probably work well.
Now that's something you should show me a test of. I had no idea you could go component out on the H1, I thought it was just SDI. So how does the image hold up when captured like that? Is it any better? Or do you simply have the 4:2:2?

Will the Cineporter allow me to capture from the Component to 4:2:2 DVCproHD in 720/24f?

Elton
08-13-2006, 04:36 PM
You'll need either an analog-->SDI converter or an HD capture card with analog HD in...like the Kona/Xena/Blackmagic extreme.

It's not likely the cineporter will have AD conversion like one of the aforementioned HD cards.

The analog HD image is very similar to the SDI signal and allows true 4:2:2 capture if you use the correct codec like CineForm, PhotoJPEG, Sheer, Uncompressed. You get subsampled 4:2:2 (1280x1080--NOT--1920x1080) with DVCProHD 1080. (it looks nice in this codec too however)

Kholi
08-13-2006, 05:01 PM
Have those cards been established for laptops yet? Mac? PC? I'd surely love to look into something like that.

I already have the latop, and my MacBook will be around soon. M'thinking that it'd be a toss up between a portable solution such as that or the M2 when it's available.

Emanuel
08-13-2006, 06:04 PM
But with the uncompressed HD we'll have a digital signal better than any analog component out.

My question is if will there be substantial losses from the analog port? Barlow, any test already done?
<specially for broadcast or theatrical purposes>

On the other hand, with the analog component out there isn't embedded audio nor other uncompressed audio option, right?

Without a SMPTE timecode port option how can we handle with the audio? Manually @clap_mode? Or from the compressed feature using the HDV itself (without external timecode syncro)?

Elton
08-13-2006, 08:37 PM
SDI and analog HD live signal (NOT hdv tape playback!) are virtually the same signals with the same image characteristics. Honestly, the SDI is maybe less than 5% cleaner--if that.

I'll tell you what though, I am much more comfortable with the BNC SDI connector than the D4 analog cable. BNC is solid whereas the other you need to tie a snag loop around it just to feel a little better about it.

There is no embedded audio and because there are no timecode ports with the A1 you would likely need to go old school and use the clapper.

HDV doesn't sound so bad now, does it? But if we're talking about a shoot with a substantial crew and an actual "video village", then going tethered even from the A1 isn't such an absurd proposition.

Kholi
08-13-2006, 10:11 PM
SDI and analog HD live signal (NOT hdv tape playback!) are virtually the same signals with the same image characteristics. Honestly, the SDI is maybe less than 5% cleaner--if that.

I'll tell you what though, I am much more comfortable with the BNC SDI connector than the D4 analog cable. BNC is solid whereas the other you need to tie a snag loop around it just to feel a little better about it.

There is no embedded audio and because there are no timecode ports with the A1 you would likely need to go old school and use the clapper.

HDV doesn't sound so bad now, does it? But if we're talking about a shoot with a substantial crew and an actual "video village", then going tethered even from the A1 isn't such an absurd proposition.

I'm liking the sound of that. I would love a more portable solution, though. A laptop with a kona card or something similar, but I'm guessing you'd still need a lot more power to deal with the live recording.

It's great to know that you can get this from the A1!!!! Video Village or not.

Emanuel
08-13-2006, 10:41 PM
:dankk2: Barlow for your complete answer! You are a good friend and the Canon's guru.