Issue with DVD output

[smelni]

I am sorry to start another thread about this but I have more info on the problem and it frames it differently.

We are exporting scenes from the hvx 720 24p from avid to put on dvd. I export as a quicktime reference file - then encode to mpeg with TMPGenc to progressive file - although it is 24 p when i import it to dvd-lab studio it sees it as 29.97.

the final dvd looks like video on a tv - not on a pc monitor at all - but on a tv looks really terrible - any ideas to why - I have tried seemingly every combo of settings on this.

[Finn]

I'm going to take a stab at it altough I may miss some points. Are you recording 24p. or 24pn? 24p is recorded at 29.92 the NTSC standard for Television using a pulldown, there's more about that in the manual than i can remeber. When you make a DVD for TV it is going to convert to 29.97 because that's what your TV can playback, it can't playback 24 progressive frames per second, it uses 29.97 interlaced fields per second.

The video look might be further complicated by lighting issues, dof, etc. Try capturing the footage and removing the 3:2:2 pulldown (not sure about those numbers) if you are in fact shooting at 24p, and not 24pn.

If you are shooting at 24pn and it looks like video, well shit... I don't know.

[smelni]

thanks for the attempt here - much appreciated

shooting with the hvx there is no pulldown - it shoots true 24 frames - the encoder does indeed add pulldown. On the PC before and after the dvd is cut it looks very nice - but on the tv it doesnt - is it possible the dvd player is not detecting the pulldown?

[VaricamLife]

Does your DVD player have an automatic detect for progressive DVDs? I haven't really looked at progressive DVDs in a long while, as they never took off in a big way, but last time I checked you usually had to turn on a progressive mode for the DVD player. Otherwise if playing like a regular DVD player it will play at 29.97, like most any other DVD you would buy from a store.

cheers.

[smelni]

yes - it does have that setting and i didnt know about that - but low and behold my tv cant play progressive.

I am not sure what is going on but the footage looks like video on the tv but not on the pc (playing the exact same dvd) - i know my monitor is progressive BUT why do regular dvds (6th sense etc) not have the video motion on the tv but the ecoded one I am making does.

Its strange - its a motion thing - not a lighting or color - the motion is just too smooth - that soap opera smooth feel - but again only on the tv

[David S.]

This also occurs on a Mac with DVD SP for footage encoded out of BitVice or Compressor.

DVD SP sees it as 29.97, but it creates a 24P DVD.

[smelni]

David - are you saying that the final dvd has videoey motion rendering on a tv?

I am least trying to get confirmation that others have had this issue

[David S.]

At least in DVD SP output it does.

[smelni]

It would be great to know what was causing this in any tool so that it could be avoided.

Do you have a suggested avid workflow or compressions engine that might avoid this issue?

[David S.]

Causing what and what issue?

DVD SP just misreads it. That's all.

[smelni]

When i place the dvd into a player and play it on a tv it looks like video.

When i place the dvd into the pc it looks like film

I am talking about the motion now. - Why would this be?

[TwistedLincoln]

I have DVD-Lab Pro 2.0, and have a similar problem. I also use TmpgEnc.

From what I can tell, when DVD-Lab detects 23.976 files, it adds pulldown to make the file play back at 29.97fps. When I encode to a 24p file instead, DVD-Lab will use it without pulldown-- but then the audio will lose sync after a while. But only DVD-Lab Pro 2.0 will accept 24p files asis -- Studio will want to insert pulldown.

I read about this, and it was suggested that one needs to encode their file using the "3:2 pulldown flags." This lets a progressive DVD player play it back properly when necessary. The actual info is on DVFilm's website (maker of Raylight). Here's the link: http://www.dvfilm.com/maker/24Pdvd.htm

I haven't had the chance to try this yet, but I will do so, and report back my findings.

[smelni]

Twisted - that helped - the tmpg workflow worked pretty well.

What I have found is that the video look ranges from tv to tv - on some crt tvs it looks very good while on others it looks like a soap opera (again only in motion).

Its hard to know what people will be viewing on so its hard to plan it properly - I am hoping to find a happy medium that looks good on all screens.

[David S.]

As you using a progressive scan set top to a progressive TV?

[smelni]

All different combinations - sometimes yes sometimes no.

the thing is, when it looks videoey - on a the same setup a studio film does not which implies that we are outputting some setting wrong or arent having a good comprimise of settings.