Problems with HVX200E streaming 720p

[jjb]

With my HVX200E connected via FW I can easily record DV, DVCPRO 50 and DVCPRO HD 1080/50i/25p directly to EDIUS Broadcast 4.01. Unfortunately this is not the case with DVCPRO HD 720/50p nor 25p. I always get the error Destination Drive too slow. As all streamable DVCPRO HD modes are 100Mbs I don't understand this behavior. I use an internal dedicated fast disk drive.
I've posted this issue to the US Canopus forum - no reaction so far.

I wonder if anybody else could try this test too.

[dregenthal]

With my HVX200E connected via FW I can easily record DV, DVCPRO 50 and DVCPRO HD 1080/50i/25p directly to EDIUS Broadcast 4.01. Unfortunately this is not the case with DVCPRO HD 720/50p nor 25p. I always get the error Destination Drive too slow. As all streamable DVCPRO HD modes are 100Mbs I don't understand this behavior. I use an internal dedicated fast disk drive.
I've posted this issue to the US Canopus forum - no reaction so far.
I wonder if anybody else could try this test too.

That's disappointing (that there has been no response to your query). At least now you can know that you are not alone in this issue . . .

I am having the exact issue (only with the NTSC version & frame rates). My camera records 1080 like butter with Broadcast v4.01, but no matter what I try I get the "destination drive is too slow" message you have described above when attempting any of the various combination settings I have tried at 720.

My PC is a brand new Dell Precision Workstation, two duel core 3.0 Xeon processors, 4 gigs of Ram, dedicated 10k internal drive. I also have a new striped MEDEA RT4 attached via SCSI . . . so speed is not the issue.

[jjb]

Thanks for your investigations. I'm happy not to be alone anymore. I've just posted an additional comment to the Canopus forum including your findings. Now it's for sure a bug in EDIUS Broadcast 4.01.

bhiga - could you please take care of this issue.

[bhiga]

I'm in Marketing and fairly distant from the engineering (aside from the fact that the "inside" voice is quieter than the "outside voice). Please contact your local support office and have them troubleshoot and report the issue.

Brandon

[jjb]

bhiga - I've contacted the local support in Germany via email. They replied promptly - unfortunately the answer was not quite helpful (..it seems, that you are working in NTSC-mode ( this is default ) please change the EDIUS-settings to PAL and it will work properly!!!). Hey guys - I'm talking about DVCPRO HD.

[bhiga]

DVCPRO HD still has NTSC and PAL differentiation...
We all hoped HD would bring us a unified standard, but there are still two "sides" there.

Brandon

[jjb]

I know that but "PAL" and "NTSC" are in fact strictly analog SD systems. 50Hz HD or 60Hz HD would be the correct terms but like Barry said in his HVX bible - people tends to speek about PAL HD or NTSC HD even this is incorrect.

[hvx_germanboy]

From what you say(and also was reported by dregentahl) this sounds like a major bug..hopefully this can be adressed in the next update in september...but for updating, they have 2 know that the bug is there, not sure how many people will try to capture with the hvx...but some definitly will!

[bhiga]

Very true... I think we all hoped that the differences in refresh were going away too... Oh well, heh.

I'm waiting for 240Hz displays.

[dregenthal]

I almost hate to ask . . . but, has there been any headway on this issue?

[jjb]

Canopus Germany have reported this issue (Aug 11, 2006). No news since then.

[bhiga]

Not sure... but version 4.03 (which now supports EDIUS hardware) was released recently.

Also, the EDIUS version 4 trial with Broadcast features is now available on the website too, though I think that might be version 4.02, rather than 4.03.

[jjb]

It seems that streaming doesn't work anymore with version 4.03 - I, for one couldn't make it run (***other problem, has been fixed***). Status quo on my laptop with version 4.01 - 1080 ok, 720p not ok. I wonder if somebody else could try it too.

[hvx_germanboy]

Hey Bhiga,

good news with the "broadcast" 4.0 trial.
Is it possible to install it if you had the trial for 3 installed?

Other question: as far as i understand is the NX now fully working with Edius Broadcast 4!?

I am still considering to buy NX with broadcast 4 and a nice machine, but i fear the workflow wount work as i want it: i wanna edit in edius and then output in Canopus HQ when editing is done, to do post(mostly coulour correction) in after effects.

But for this i need the signal to be output to the external monitor (in SD and HD) through the NX, but i still found no one who is exactly working like that, or can tell me at least for sure that this will work....so what can i do according to your knowledge Bhiga(other experiences/knowledge welcome too!)?

Thanks a lot, like always..!

p.s.-let me know whats your nick on canopus.com Forum-hust curious...!

[bhiga]

Hi hvx_germanboy!

You'll have to uninstall the version 3 trial before installing the version 4 trial, but the counter should reset.

Yes, with version 4.03 of EDIUS, the EDIUX NX, SP, SD and HD hardware is supported. If you buy the EDIUS NX card, it comes with EDIUS Pro, but you can get the upgrade to EDIUS Broadcast and that'll work with it too.

Edit in EDIUS, output to Canopus HQ AVI - OK
Open Canopus HQ AVI in After Effects - should be OK, will have to confirm with some of the users though, I don't have a modern version of AE here.
See HD output through NX board in After Effects - will also have to confirm, it's supposed to work...

I'm Canopus_BH on the Canopus Forum. :)

Brandon

[hvx_germanboy]

Hey Brandon,

(or should i say "canopus_bh"-nice to see how much you write over there..!)
thanks for your initial answers, am curious to see the esius 4 trial, i think i am bought for this(broadcast), but i still have seroius concerns if my NX/after effects workflow will work fine, it would be great if you could use the power of your contacts to give me some definitive answers, as this will be a huge investment to me...buying a new complete pc with nx and broadcast..so id be cool to know how it works with after effects..!

I also read a little about boris and edius: do you know which kind of cc tools they got and if this would make AE obsolete for me in terms of CC??
Cause i am really concerned about exporting an HQ avi and the "re-cut" it in AE to edit each clip...!

Thanks-like always Brandon!

[Spartacus]

Is there anything special with 720p25 streaming?
Apple let people down with only adding editing support, not streaming to
disc and Edius aslo doesn´t work?

[hvx_germanboy]

All i heard (also from JBB in swiss i guess) was that the 720 streaming doesnt work..!

I dont know if there is any change in the 4.03 version, but it looks like something is not working there..which setup do you got right now spartacus??

[Spartacus]

Premiere with AspectHD so far, changing platforms to Mac at the moment...

[jjb]

I've repeated the tests with version 4.1. 720p streaming still not possible. Bug has been accepted by Canopus Germany (Aug 11, 2006) - still no feedback.

[jjb]

I am having the exact issue (only with the NTSC version & frame rates). My camera records 1080 like butter with Broadcast v4.01, but no matter what I try I get the "destination drive is too slow" message you have described above when attempting any of the various combination settings I have tried at 720.

My PC is a brand new Dell Precision Workstation, two duel core 3.0 Xeon processors, 4 gigs of Ram, dedicated 10k internal drive. I also have a new striped MEDEA RT4 attached via SCSI . . . so speed is not the issue.

Hello dregenthal
Did you try it with v4.1? My Canopus dealer in Switzerland just told me that he could record 720/50p without any problems. He was using a high end workstation with SATA-Raid 5 (4 x 500GB). He was even successful doing it with a smaller system.
The firewire card on my desktop seems to be defect but with my laptop the situation is unchanged. Even with an external USB HD (500GB) it records 1080 like butter (as you said).

[hvx_germanboy]

JJB,
am i missing here something?
thought you got the v4.1 and it doesnt work?
So where should be the difference at your dealers pc?

[jjb]

hvx_germanboy,
I'm still not able to record 720p.
The Canopus dealer is using a brand-new high-end workstation with Raid5. But in this case drengenthal should be successful too. What I cannot understand is that 1080 records like butter as it is 100Mb/s for both modes.

[hvx_germanboy]

hmmm...thats strange...i dont wanna doubt the experience of your dealer, but its very strange that it doesnt work for you!?

I dount that this is a performance problem(look at 1080, same stream, regarding the ammount), i will definitly try it when i got my machine running, why dont you ask the dealer to show you the streaming..??

[journalist]

Hi
I am having the same problem with my dual core AMD 4200 table PC.

Just tested ACER 4280 dual core laptop with 5400 r/min HDD which worked ok expept on 720 50 p "drive too slow". 1080 50 i goes ok though.
I also thought that 5400 is too slow but now I don't know. Table PC shouldn't have this problem but still it's also giving these messages "too slow hdd".

A bug after all?
jussi

[Jason Ramsey]

I just want to revive this. Sorry, I never got around to seeing whether or not it would work for me, but I never got around to buying a 4x4 firewire :)

Anyways, I am experiencing the same thing. It would appear to me that this must be a bug, or a setting that, by default, is causing this and needs to be altered before 720 capture.

I can edit 4-5 streams of 720p in realtime with transitions, cc, etc.

I can capture 1080/24pa (or any 1080), as was reported. Smooth like a lake at sunrise. Just painless and perfect.

I try to capture any firewire capable 720 modes and EDIUS chokes on it. It just can't do it. Grinds down the buffer immediately, and stops capture (if that option is checked).

Jason

[jjb]

No news yet. I've just added this bug at buglistcentral.com.
I can't believe that my Canopus dealer could capture 720p - I'll have to see it with my own eyes.

[journalist]

Yesterday I was at our Finnish dealer, and saw myself that 720 50 P direct capture works ok! No special setup, about one year old 2 core machine, HDD was 7200 r/min....

Conclusion was to try defragment & make som emore room first on HDD. We'll see

[Jason Ramsey]

My computer is brand new. My drives have lots of room, and are plenty fast for 1080 capture, and realtime editing of 1080 or 720 in multiple streams. There has got to be some other issue going on. If it is working for some people, it seems to be the minority. A very small minority.

As was mentioned in another thread, Canopus Germany(?) is calling it a bug.

I know myself, Thoff, and Dregenthal, can confirm that 720 capture has not worked for us in "NTSC" land. jjb is reporting it will not work for him in "PAL" land.

Later,
Jason

[THoff]

Yeah, it sounds like a bug, definitely not a lack of hardware or drive fragmentation issue. Capture in 1080 works, 720 does not (using V4.10).

I'm running on a P4D 840EE (two HT-enabled cores / four logical processors total) with 2GB of RAM, capturing to a 10,000 RPM SATA II Raptor. 1080 is smooth as butter, 720 never even gets past the "Preparing to capture" (or whatever the exact wording is) message.

[Jason Ramsey]

My 720 capture just like runs down the buffer and then stops.

Jason

[dregenthal]

kind of a bummer that we reported this back in July/August and still no fix.

[bhiga]

There are updates in the works, but I don't have dates yet (maybe it's because I'm married?)

[jjb]

:thumbsup: bhiga - what would we do without you

[Jason Ramsey]

Thanks for the update Brandon.

Jason

[hvx_germanboy]

There are updates in the works, but I don't have dates yet (maybe it's because I'm married?)


thats a nice one brandon...lets say "soon"...got it!

[hvx_germanboy]

By the way...Brandon,
is the change of the P2 select in Version 4.1 known as a bug?
As i recall it was possible to select clips, import them, and stay in the P2 select window after that.

Now it closes everytime you select one clip to import...thats annoying and time consuming(at least if you have to select a couple of hundred "cards" like i do...is there any hope for the update..?

Thanks Brandon!

[bhiga]

The engineers do read BuglistCentral and WishlistCentral, so as long as it's listed there, there is hope.

[jjb]

There are updates in the works, but I don't have dates yet (maybe it's because I'm married?)

I've just tested the new version 4.13 - situation still unchanged.

[journalist]

Just formatted and reinstalled EDIUS 4 Broadcast to my AMD 4200 Dual 2 GB RAM, Geforce 7600 GS 256 RAM and Raid 0, 2 x 250 mb. Uppgraded EDIUS 4.13, run all windows uppgrades plus a 1394 connection uppgrade from microsoft in case of possible bug (slows down firewire). Uuh nothongs helps.

It can capture p2 1080 50i but never 720 50P. I am in PAL land. So far this is a total deadend. Importer can't help. The inly thing I know I have seen it working in their Intel based PC. That all. Very subrised that nobody close EDIUS isn't responding here......
jussi

[Jason Ramsey]

Those close to EDIUS respond in the canopus forum. Doing like Brandon said and reporting it to bug central on the canopus website (over and over, if you have to), is the best way to get it fixed.

Those folks aren't gonna pay attention to our itty bitty EDIUS section here. :) Mabye one day. Except for Brandon. It's great to have him around here answering all of our questions.

Jason

[andersj]

Hello everybody !

PAL user here !

I also have the HVX 200E, and am using Edius 4.1. I also get the same problem trying to capture 720 resolutions (50 or 25 p). "Hard drive is too slow".

I am working on a dell precision workstation with 2 quad core processors, 4 mb ram, and a kille graph card from Nvidia. I have a stripe from 2 harddrives, so performance should not be an issue.

Another interesting thing is that i also have the cititdisk HD of 80 GB. I use it to capture HD outside the studio. When i import captured clips from the disk to Edius, all the clips captured in 720 (25 p or 50p), the audio is all messy and distortioned.....don´t understand why. All other formats (1080, 576 and so on), are perfect.

Does anybody know of any softwre that You can use to see raw DV files in (the citidisk saves the files as .DV files).

Thank You :-)

Anders

[jjb]

THoff has found a circumvention for the 720p direct recording bug - set the timecode to free run and it works.

[andersj]

Yes, i also found that thread 3hours after i posted my thread :2vrolijk_08:And that did the trick.

Thank You THoff and of couse jjb! :cheesy:

Do You (or anybody) know a solution to my second issue, findig some software that can open or preview .DV files. My citidisk saves in that format, and AE & Premiere wont open them. I can open them in Edius, but the sound is all messed up, so i would like to open them in som other way to see if the problem is in the disk or in the software.

Anders

[PhantomVideo]

hey Andersj, we have two 120g citidisk's please

- do not trust citidisk AT ALL,
- update the firmwire to V5 and use Qplay in the field
- Use Shining Utils to set the citidisk to record the files in AVI format specifilly (AVI2 Canopus)
- If Eduis does not then accept the files email me and ill send the the codec for edius with shining have taken off there website

I have the codecs for Premiere and AE as well ash@pov.co.nz
I'll just say that if you can get some p2 cards so much better i'll only use our citidisks on our HPX502 now cause of the 6pin to 6pin connector
just found it to be to unrealibable ay

Cheers

[andersj]

:grin:Thank You for the information PhantomVideo!

As the disk is brand new, i will return it and go for P2 or a Firestorm disk instead. I might ask Shining to fu.k off at the same time.

I cannot understand why some companies insist on selling crap that don´t work. Besides the product being crap, their manuals, website and everything is just crap.

I tried updating bios, downgrading bios, using all the different file fomats and everyone of them gives a different problem. Using the Canopus AVI2 format, the video is all messed up in squares all over the video. MOV does not work at all, neither does the regular AVI format. Using the raw DV format is the only one that gives a good video, but in 720/25 or 50 P the audio is all choped up and overpitched.

It would be great if You could send me the codecs however, just to try. I will send You an E-mail right away, so You can reply to me with the codecs. Please let me know if You don´t receive my E-mail.

I hope that this serves as a heads up for all You out there considering purchasing a Citidisk.....do not do that !!!!!!!

[PhantomVideo]

Thank God you can return it, yeah shining really are awful im going to turn our citidisks into field drives cause we got the big batterys for them as well got to be the worst 5 grand NZD we even spent

[bhiga]

If you can get the disk to recording Microsoft DV AVI (4CC dvsd) then it should be more compatible than the Canopus AVI (4CC cdvc) files.

Canopus AVI is a legacy from the Ez/Raptor/Rex/Storm Edit days and EDIUS can use Microsoft DV AVI files no problem.

[PhantomVideo]

Accept that the FourCC for DVCPROHD in a AVI wrapper wouldn't be dvsd it would be dvh1

[bhiga]

Whoops, good one - you caught me there. For HD stuff, you should choose Canopus AVI so you can get file tagged as Canopus HD Codec.

While we're on the subject... the only legitimate ways to get the Canopus HD codec currently are:

With EDIUS Broadcast software or hardwareAnd the legitimate ways to get the Canopus HQ codec are:

With EDIUS software or hardware
With the Pegasus (aka HDRECS in Japan) hardware
With ProCoder 3.x
Decode-only in the Canopus Playback Codecs packAny standalone, not-tied-to-EDIUS versions of the Canopus HD in any form, and encoding-capable Canopus HQ codec are not legit and likely hacked or worse (infected).

[andersj]

I talked to my salesman this morning at the company where i bought the citidisk, and he agreed on taking the disk back (thank god). I also phoned up the distributor here in Sweden for the Citidisks :furious3:, and he was aware of the problems regarding the Citidisk HD product. It seems like the HDV version works well, but not the HD version.

So now i ordered a 32 gb PS card instead :thumbsup: Hope that will give me less of a headache.

Thank You guys

Anders

[journalist]

THoff has found a circumvention for the 720p direct recording bug - set the timecode to free run and it works.
I have been using this freerun-trick also and already thought that it's ok.But unfortunately "dik too slow" returned, also in 1080 50i mode. Now I am lost. There is plenty of defracmented room. One day the capture (720 50P) worked for over an hour long shot. The next edisode a few days after didn't work more than a minute or so. HDD had more space left at later instance.

[jjb]

The bug has not been fixed in EDIUS Broadcast 4.61 and 720p direct capturing is only possible with a circumvention. Couldn't test it with EDIUS 5 but I assume that the bug is still there.
Circumvention: HVX Recording Setup -> set Timecode to free run (thanks to THOFF).