Pre Sell Program

[deadkrash]

Is anyone aware of how many units or widgets have been pre sold for the $1000 deposite so far. Some people were saying that Jim was raising working capital. I think that is stupid. How many of these things could he have pre sold. 1000? 2000? Under, Over? My point is that in the creation of a technology like this, Red is spending Millions. So what the hell good is $200,000. I'd just like a figure from someone who knows. How many are pre-sold.

I'm # 38

[Greg Lowry]

Last I heard there were 350-ish deposits. (I'm sure someone will correct that number if it's too low. Someone on this board recently reported that they had preordered and gave the number of their RED. That's where I got the 350ish number.) It's absurb to believe that the deposits are to be used for working capital for a project that is no doubt costing millions. They're refundable deposits. By definition they can't be used for that purpose. I believe the preorders are a means of gauging how many units RED should initially manufacture.

[JTmoney]

I can tell you exactly how many as of 7/13 ...I got # 0334 ....Oh by the way , 7/13 is my birthday .........No kidding
Not saying how old, but it is over 40 :(

[deadkrash]

Thanks, just what I was looking For

[Jannard]

The money is not to raise working capital... it is to see who much real interest there is in the project so we can set up production numbers properly.

Jim

[Jarred Land]

yes.. they did it the right way. This way instead of down the road when they are finished and ready to roll into production, they dont need to make a guess on how many they gotta pump out in the first batch. It should help them prepare for launch day demand a little better than the last couple camera releases.

[JTmoney]

You wait till we see footage, and a working Red One camera. There will be a back log a mile long, for this camera! most are in a wait and see mode.
I went to a large ENG place here. Where one of the sales staff pulled me into, a stuffy little office. I told him I was looking for a local resource, for
supplies. I told him I was doing Independent film and wanted to try HD.
He told me " Buy the sony f900 " I said That was to much for me to spend! He then told me " Look to do HD right! your looking at a ,couple
hundred grand, minimum. " I asked if he ever heard of Red camera? He replied with a chuckle, said " they had a booth when I went to NAB. don't buy in to that, its all smoke and mirrors." My point is, I'm not looking to do HD right! I'm looking to brake every rule that I can brake. Just as RED is. So now, I need to find supplies for my smoke and mirrors. By years end demand will be sky high..
I'm proud to be in this group at #0334 :)

[Blaine]

I hear ya! That's exactly the right attitude. I feel the same way at #234 :thumbsup:

[Jarred Land]

So now, I need to find supplies for my smoke and mirrors. By years end demand will be sky high..
I'm proud to be in this group at #0334 :)

and that is why i was in at #10... before any of the NAB smoke and mirrors.

[acrochordon]

Sitting on the fence is killing me, but I want to see more first.

[omen]

The money is not to raise working capital... it is to see who much real interest there is in the project so we can set up production numbers properly.

Jim
It is hard to perceive the REAL interest from this standing point, because most of the potential customers around the world aren't informed about this exceptional device.
My opinion is that all the interest you can see in nearest future will be just the tip of the iceberg.
After all, you offer the revolution for revolutionary price.
That happens very rarely.

I suggest setting up the production for a larger scale and being prepared,
rather than creating a situation of long line of customers awaiting...
In case of too-optimistic expectations - few machines more in the RED headquarters won't get rusty.
I guess they're corrosion-free,
blasted with plasma,
and pressed with thousand pounds of pressure, right?
;)

Word will travel fast. Be prepared for the response.
You have yet to discover the full impact of your vision.

[Damon Botsford]

Man, I thought there would be 1000's of preorders by now and I was pretty much screwed. I got a little spot cleared off my desk just screaming for a machined RED logo. As I see it, you have absolutely nothing to lose by putting in a deposit, assuming your finances are in order. Might wanna beat the tidal wave of orders coming in after the first footage release.

P.S.- a little late for the contest, but I think a RED financing program with a decent APR would be terrific.

[Jarred Land]

yeah i think financing is gonna be a good thing for alot of people getting into this level of camera... hopefully will be a better rate then the bank of Visa.

[acrochordon]

I am keeping an open mind about other companies similar to RED, or should I say with similar products. I think RED probably will win out due to their emphasis on developing software that will work with FCP on a Mac. But I want to wait a while longer to make sure I make the right choice.

REDs closest competitor is vision research. This era might be like the early days of cars where there were many small car companies that sprouted up overnight. It seems that anyone with some money and some skill could build their own camera, just like anyone could assemble their own computer. Dell started out that way. There could be lots more upstarts in the near future, with one big one becoming the 800 lb. gorilla. Will RED be the 800 lb gorilla?

You decide. Look at the links and info I copied below.

http://www.visionresearch.com/phantom65.html
4096x2440 @ 125fps+ The newest system to join our product line is the Phantom 65. Designed for cinematography applications, it supplies digital 65mm or HD formats! This new camera offers the highest pixel count in the industry. We have also included, and expanded on the tools that you have come to expect with your existing equipment. Try the Phantom 65, the possibilities are almost limitless.

http://www.visionresearch.com/phantomHD.html
2048x1152 @ 1,000fps+ OK HD shooters, your ship has just come in! Our new Phantom HD provides excellent image quality combined with high speed recording rates plus 35mm film format compatibility. This new multi standard compliant Phantom HD has just punched your ticket to new creative horizons.

[filmmaker1977]

prices? prices?

[Gordon Prince]

Vision Research... I didn't hear before.

[Jarred Land]

vision research made the cameras for all the stuff i shot on www.purposelabs.com (http://www.purposelabs.com)

in fact.. you see my little avatar of my face under my name? that was shot with a vision research phantom 9 high speed camera.

The 4 k camera from vision research will be about 200k.

The Phantom HD will be around 100k.

Vision Research is not a competitor to Red... Red not only is in a whole other price point (1/10th the price) , but vision research 4k is a rental camera targeted to a much different market, for high speed applications.

[filmmaker1977]

:dankk2: jarred

forget visionresearch..

mr. jim jannard, keep the good work and please give us dates as soon as possible.. we need it.. i have a feature to shoot with your/our cam..

venice is it ok for you?..

but i'll need dates as soon as possible, please?

frankly i don't give a damn considering the footage.. i'll buy it even without any footage.. the specs would be enough.. and they were for the reservation option.

[Greg Lowry]

The Vision Research Phantom65 4K camera body is just over $100k (down from the NAB estimated price of $200K), but with all the other high speed goodies, more like $150k, before lenses. I recently got a preliminary price list.

As Jarrad said, it's obviously not a competitor to RED, but it's an amazing piece of technology.

[Jarred Land]

The Vision Research Phantom65 4K camera body is just over $100k , but with all the other high speed goodies, more like $150k, before lenses. I recently got a preliminary price list.
.
heh heh.. ok lets make a penny wager on who is right when the camera ships :)


and it is a great camera.. the Phantom HD ( oddly also 100k lol) seems like a better fit for alot of filmmakers though. the flash packs etc. are a nice touch.

[Gordon Prince]

Some people "need to know" because they have work to schedule.

[filmmaker1977]

nobody is being unfair here.. not us. :shocked: each one for its own reasons and particular use..

being available quickly enough to our needs it cannot be a crime.. it isn't.. or looking for the last info available and scheduling..

if RED is available during 1Q 2007 it's not the same than 2Q or even later.. just as it should be if RED is not a toy as it really is for real people..


edit
RED's customers, since having already done their reservation as actually happened..

[Gordon Prince]

Since we are partners of filmmaker1977 in this RED adventure, he knows very well our needs and what he's talking about. If for some the gear is more important than everything else with a sacred timeline or its secrecy, for others their time is what brings money back home. And that's what the tools are making for. And not the opposite.

Gordon and Edgar (the third silent partner though non-dvxuser member, yet)

[Jarred Land]

come on guys please.. lets remain civil here. if you guys wanna bash eachother do it via PM so we dont hafta watch your high-school drama.

You guys are all very talented member here and i dont want all hell to break loose.

[mike the beginner]

I can understand both viewpoints here. I would love the camera to be ready before April 2007 BUT. Red have set "engineering targets" only and they sometimes remind us all of that!

I would rather wait and have the camera with the design elements some of you have talked about (front end universal mount or whatever) and a few of the really good suggestions added along with a good well tested shoulder mount ready at the same time as the camera. The only lens to be ready will be the prime 300mm mentioned. The zoom likely mid season 2007.
I find it very interesting to have different views coming from one another i am sure no one really means to trade insults it is just the passion, excitement and frustration of not knowing when it will all come together?

I have scheduled plans others have scheduled plans. Red i am positive will not want to see their camera delayed if they can avoid it. But as Jim Jannard has already stated "There are a thousand things that can go wrong from now till then"

Hopefully we will have a better guess by September when we see the footage AND hopefully see the new body design. Also having invested around 10 miilion so far Red may well be looking over their shoulder to see who else is coming up with ideas similar to the Red camera. It is a huge challange in itself and i am sure we all wish them every success. The one thing that Jim Jannard will not do is trickle feed the production once the first few have been despatched for first appraisels etc. With all the ideas expressed and the innovative nature or the founder i think we may find things on the camera that make it almost impossible to hold the price at the $17,500 mark once it is finally for sale. I would not be surprised if the price goes higher EXCEPT FOR THOSE WHO HAVE RESERVED:Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

Michael

[Emanuel]

Making movies in Europe is quite different. :D

[Blaine]

As I'm a guest here, and out of respect for you and vast majority of members, I'll refrain from commenting on the insipid and deluded posts from now on.
You can't take it personally. Sometimes things are said that just make no sense whatsoever. At that time, it's time to step back, take a breath and answer in a way that doesn't appear to be a personal attack...not saying that's what you did but I like reading your posts and would hate to see you stop.

[Emanuel]

It's not a drama; but this a community of friends where all the people are sharing their own knowledge and different experiences. From the five continents. Actually I made several friends here that have been extended outside into real life and not only as virtual fellows. They don't forget each other helping who needs it. Like a great team of a soccer match. I can even announce two projects that were beginning from these threads. This made what dvxuser.com has been coming for: a family and the second office if not a school. Real ones. From the dvxuser.com team.

[Blaine]

I completely subscribe to the the philosophy that cinematographers are brothers and sisters. And I think I have demonstrated that I seek to be helpful. But sometimes the siblings annoy the hell out of each other.
LMAO...ain't it the truth. :grin:

[filmmaker1977]

beautiful shot emanuel.. :) but not from a machine gun :laugh: no more..

some of you didn't read what was deleted.. fortunately.. so please let's stop before i will start crying..

[filmmaker1977]

hey brother greg.. peace? (you don't need to answer.. i'll do the same..)


:)

[filmmaker1977]

as you wish..

as i always posted and i stand: you are a valuable poster and maybe it's difficult to understand who i am or what are my or our needs.. other context.. other experience of life.. other sort of work(s).. different backgrounds.. an so on..

i'm hurt (you well know) and actually it seems you are too..

whatever you want, let's go but peaceful..

i want to believe this time we will be together as usual when we are posting here.. differently or not.. it doesn't matter however in a civil manner..

[Blaine]

This is getting better than "As the World Turns"

[filmmaker1977]

Yikes, I didn't sign up for the therapy session. The term "hurt" doesn't apply to me. I have a strong difference of opinion with you on matters that offend my sense of professionalism and, frankly, common sense. But you are entitled to whatever opinions and attitudes you wish. I'll steer clear. Enough said.we already know.. what it can be hidden under-the-lines and you are a skilled writer.. it was where all began.. let's respect each other, shall we?.. do ourselves a favor and each one for his own way.. it's not necessary the last word.. LOL specially if this one is about the other side.. there aren't winners.. just different people, can it be? :crybaby:

:)

[Emanuel]

It can be for sure! As Jarred said, both are very talented member here. The differences can be always an add-value. Afterall, we are learning each day with brain-based learning.

[Gordon Prince]

I'm deleting all of my useless personal junk posts to clean up this thread. I respectfully suggest that filmmaker do the same, and also those who responded to the skirmish between filmmaker and me. There's nothing useful for anyone in them.Greg

Don't take the things personally. He's a decent man. I was his student before and all the people love him. I'm sure you too if you know him in a daily basis.

Cheers!


Well, after seeing your deleting it seems very strange! As a movie of Jean-Luc Godard.

Oh what a mess! :badputer:

The most weird example is the place of the Jarred's post. :eek:

For this latter reason chiefly I declare my innocence of ever doing anything designedly wrong in all this affair and I claim for the - himself - Jarred's testimony. :engel017:

It seems when we're going to the movies and we preferred the hollywood version instead of the director's cut. (Sorry Prof! ah ah ah)


yeah i think financing is gonna be a good thing for alot of people getting into this level of camera... hopefully will be a better rate then the bank of Visa.We agree. Is there already any special RED programme on the subject? Worldwide available following the support - as Oakley is?

[Emanuel]

Good question Gordon. Above all as major interest for the RED european users. Maybe Jim can have something for his customers also based on 'this' side of the Atlantic. Nevertheless, a finance program can present some legal problems according the different law systems and the complexity of the private international law.

[filmmaker1977]

Jarrad is right, personal issues have no place here. Apologies to all.Apologies accepted.




<edit>

Greg

Don't take the things personally. He's a decent man. I was his student before and all the people love him. I'm sure you too if you know him in a daily basis.

Cheers!


Well, after seeing your deleting it seems very strange! As a movie of Jean-Luc Godard.

Oh what a mess! :badputer:

The most weird example is the place of the Jarred's post. :eek:

For this latter reason chiefly I declare my innocence of ever doing anything designedly wrong in all this affair and I claim for the - himself - Jarred's testimony. :engel017:

It seems when we're going to the movies and we preferred the hollywood version instead of the director's cut. (Sorry Prof! ah ah ah)agreed.. reading again after Greg Lowry's edits it seems another different hi_story.. :badputer:

[im.thatoneguy]

I just hope Red presells like crazy to rental houses so that I get nice low weekly rates. No finance worries then.

[Haakon]

I just hope Red presells like crazy to rental houses so that I get nice low weekly rates. No finance worries then.
Dream on. :) I have a feeling the demand for this puppy is going to surge - and we all know what demand does to prices. "Crazy presells" or not, I can't see this camera renting for "nice, low weekly rates." Of course, that's all relative... :)

[Zig_Zigman]

I'm going to be renting mine out, that's for sure....

[Haakon]

I'm going to charge people just to look at mine. :)

[Gibby]

I'm going to charge people just to look at mine. :)

LOL!

Then maybe I should be charging you to come 2 hours up the coast and shoot with RED #8 when I get it - something I offered you a few months ago on this forum. Tell me what you're going to charge for people to look at your RED, and I'll know how much to markup a hand-on test drive of mine.

I'll make you a deal: I won't charge you to test drive my RED if you agree not to charge people to just look at your RED when you get it. I'm taking mine all the way to Australia and New Zealand in January to shoot footage and share it with friends down there - no charge to anyone.

Come on up to the Central Coast in December Haakon, and check it out.

LOL!

Gibby
RED #8
www.cut4.tv
www.4umat.com

[Jarred Land]

h aha ha.. ill one up you Gibby, ill not only NOT charge people to look at mine, i'll let people touch it with one finger for 3 seconds for FREE!!!

[Gibby]

Or even better: bring Evin along with his Nikon, have him shoot digital stills of people holding your RED (for a fee of course), and split the cash with Evin!!!

Gibby
RED #8
www.cut4.tv
www.4umat.com

[Emanuel]

I'm taking mine all the way to Australia and New Zealand in January to shoot footage and share it with friends down there - no charge to anyone.

Come on up to the Central Coast in December Haakon, and check it out.

I'd like to join you. But only if Jim will go to announce those dates I will believe it.

[Gibby]

I'd like to join you. But only if Jim will go to announce those dates I will believe it.

Hey Emanuel. How are you?

As usual, all things are subject to change, but here's the development schedule info currently on the Company Info/Q &A page of the RED web site:

"Public presentation of 4k resolution footage is targeted for Fall 2006" (IBC - they've already announced that 4k footage will be shown there)

"Prototype camera assembly is targeted for December 2006."

"Initial production of the camera is targeted for early 2007"

RED has already announced that they will be meeting their first goal - 4k footage at IBC. There's no indication at this point that they won't stay on schedule and meet those next two development goals.

With my camera being #8, and probably delivering in the first batch, a trip to Australia & NZ in January with the camera is very possible. If delivery to me is delayed into February, I'll delay the trip to February. If it somehow delivers in late December, I'd be a very happy guy!

Gibby
RED #8
www.cut4.tv
www.4umat.com

[Emanuel]

Me too my friend, me too (Fine :dankk2:! And U?). I have a lot of work to shoot with it.

I'd like and I hope so. For sure, Jim's schedule is advanced in time: September 8th is summer, before fall. It's a great hint indeed. Who knows if next January/February our dreams = come true?

Take care!
Emanuel :beer: