Please help with this

[Jay A. Kelley]

I am a good DP... Really!!! Stop laughing!!! :kali: :crybaby:

But I have never been the engineer type of DP with all the numbers and equations that my peers love to intimidate me with. I go for the look, I understand composition and how it relates to story. As for the equipment/numbers/math side of the job.. :badputer:

Ok please help me with this.

You have a RED Camera, a S16mm lens and you want to end up at 1080p for editing and capture. BUT you want as little DOF as possible. How do you set up the camera?

:dankk2:

Jay (Wanted to see how many icons I could get into this post) :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

[donatello]

shoot 1080p or S16 mode (windowed 2k then edit 2k and render out to 1080p for final ) ...

the rest is how you use the lens and light set/location ..
use the long end of your super 16 lens ( 35-100+ ) shoot T2 - T4 ... also bring along a Nikon 200 F2 lens and shoot F2 - F 4 ...shoot with 16mm primes 16mm up to 50 up at F1.3- 2.5 .. if you have to use a wide lens 10-16mm .. make sure it is intercut with longer lens ..

AND keep light off the background ( keep it darker then subject area) so you don't know the depth of set/location ... also pick out sets/locations where you have room to move the camera back so you can use longer lens ...

[taubkin]

Fun Post.

Donatello is right though. You could get a *little play from shooting 2K and resizing to 1080, but ultimatelly you´re going to get S16 DOFsince the image formed behind the lens won´t be able to cover all of your chip.

I think that is a great combination, though. Having a S16 zoom, and shooting with more DOF (great for Run/Gun and lower budget jobs) and renting 35mm primes, for those paying gigs where you can have more control, have 1st ACs, so you can nail focus on those T1.3 shots, etc.

[Jarred Land]

little dof seems like the real question.. keep your iris wide open and use ND's to cut down.. that will give you the shortest dof.

[Jay A. Kelley]

:Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)
little dof seems like the real question.. keep your iris wide open and use ND's to cut down.. that will give you the shortest dof.

Ok, bad communication on my part, but cool to see you guys still be so understanding. I'm not THAT bad of a DP.

I have no problem with lighting, and I can knock off my depth of field with the best of them when it comes to using a long lens and the correct apature. What I meant about the numbers are those people who can put a 2.5 HMI up and tell you the number of stops you will lose based on distance by doing the math in their head, that would not be bad enough except they also factored in the two grips smoking nearby and how much THAT would take down the light (Some of this is kidding)

You guys did answer my question though. Windowed 2k. Can you please explain to me exactly what windowed 2k means? You know this brings up a very important point. Will the camera have the ability to downconvert what it shoots before going to disk? This would be a MAJOR deal. I hope it does since that would allow us to shoot using more of the chip and reducing DOF but still downcovert to a format which would not eat up our data stream.

Please tell me this is already planned, cause if it's not then THIS would have been the idea that would have won the RED CONTEST

Jay

[Jarred Land]

you kinda answered your own question, and yes it was already thought of, it was one of the first things they publicly stated. The camera does 2k 2 ways.. first from a down sampling from the 4k image, in camera. The next way is to actually just "read" the center of the sensor and extract the image that way. Remember though, if your only reading a window of the sensor, your imager size changes so your lenses start acting differently.

[Jay A. Kelley]

Hehehe... You're nice not to insult my stupidity.. I would have!

Question, why would you WANT to go to a windowed format?
Jay

[Jarred Land]

windowed format has many advantages... such as extending your focal length and the ability to use non-s35mm lenses, easier on camera bandwidth so you can do things like shoot 120fps.. etc. etc. etc.

[Jay A. Kelley]

I read the graph carefully.. Now I understand what they are doing.
Before you shoot you will select the sensor size you are using, then select the compression, and framerate.

You know what? I'm putting down a deposit

Jay

[donatello]

if you use S16 lens you have to go windowed - 16mm lens will not cover the whole sensor

in case you haven't seen RED's chart

http://www.red.com/product/format-options/

[Jarred Land]

I read the graph carefully.. Now I understand what they are doing.
Before you shoot you will select the sensor size you are using, then select the compression, and framerate.

You know what? I'm putting down a deposit

Jay
rocking Jay. welcome to the darkside :)

[mike the beginner]

QUOTE: windowed format has many advantages... such as extending your focal length and the ability to use non-s35mm lenses, easier on camera bandwidth so you can do things like shoot 120fps.. etc. etc. etc.
__________________

The 120fps would (i imagine) be great to use at times. Is there any way that you could still use a 35mm lens and get the full 120fps. I fear not? hence a strong reason for others to go the s16mm lens route.

Please tell me i am wrong i really cannot afford another lens......but

Michael

OOPS........ Your too quick Jarrad i think you answered it. (must look at graph myself!!!)

[Gibby]

Buy what you will use constantly...and rent the rest on a per project basis, billing it through to the client or contractor.

Gibby
RED camera #8
www.cut4.tv
www.4umat.com

[taubkin]

You can use your 35mm lenses easily, but since your only capturing the center of the image formed, it will behave like a S16 lens. So basically, a 35mm would be a telephoto, instead of a normal. ad so on. DOF is maintained. A 35mm has the DOF of a 35mm, but since it acts as a telephoto, you have more DOF.

(That's for Mike, I know Jay already know all of this!)

Getting a reservation is a good choice, Jay. I don't have the money to get a camera yet, that's the only reason why I don't have a number. But rest asured, one day, I'll have one of them babies. I already held off purchasing an Aaton LTR because of Jim....

[mike the beginner]

Thanks taubkin i appreciate that:) Yeh i know how you feel about the saving up and sacrificing to get something rather special:(

But when you finally get there and grab a hold of that Red camera you are going to be one happy chappy indeed.

For me, i like the fact that Red is some way off completion. i can learn more in the run up to the special day. You guys really know your stuff.

I just hope that it is not too much hassle going from full sensor usage at 35mm to part sensor and 120fps for a specific situation and then reverting back to fuill sensor usage. Have to learn how that will go with editing etc.

Gibby for me, i can't hire as things are done over months not a day or week etc. But for others?

Michael

[Jay A. Kelley]

I have sent in my reservation form, accepted the fact that I am now $1,000.00 poorer and I am a member of "Club Red"!!!

Jim, you should know that while I am excited beyond words about the possibilities of the camera, I would not have put a reservation in had it not been for Jarred, Gibby, and all the helpful, understanding people on this forum..

Equipment always changes, good people are forever.

Jay

[taubkin]

One of the millions of reasons I'm so happy with my old beaten DVX100A!

[Gibby]

Thanks for the kind words Jay. Glad to help...and welcome to Club RED!

Gibby
RED camera #8
www.cut4.tv
www.4umat.com

[Gibby]

Gibby for me, i can't hire as things are done over months not a day or week etc.

Then a good potential workaround would be to buy the RED One camera, a couple internal batteries, a RED Drive (possibly around $1k), and then buy an affordable used S16 wide angle zoom. If you do a Google search, you'll find many older S16 zooms for between $1.5k and $2.5k USD. Then you could do your long-form projects while you save/generate revenue through freelancing (where you can rent and build into a budget) until you can afford to buy the lens/lenses you need daily. At that point you could sell off the original S16 lens or simply keep it as a backup lens.

RED camera owner/operators should be in demand for a wide range of projects, so it shouldn't take you very long freelancing on the side to generate the capital to by the lenses and accessories that you'll use regularly.

Hope this helps...

Gibby
RED #8
www.cut4.tv
www.4umat.com