Modularity...

[Jannard]

We now believe that the lens mount/sensor should be one module. The electronics another. The recording media another. And the battery separate. The LCD separate. And the EVF (we now have one in development) separate. Update and configure as you wish. It makes it much easier to deal with from a design standpoint. And much easier from an upgrade point of view. The cages are being redesigned to better integrate with each other. All in all, pretty cool stuff. We have open Pandora's box by sharing the design process. Please be patient as things are changing pretty rapidly. All for the better.

Jim

[tonacidigital]

niiiice. The evf is icing on the cake. Again my imgination runs wild with how this all will look (a fully equipped red). thanks for additional info jim.

[Daniel Skubal]

Excellent work, Jim. Will the modularity change the price margin considerably? Is it too early to tell?

[Proteus]

I agree that modularity is the best for everyone, for the company and for the customers. It will make the camera flexible and adaptable to different budgets and needs….

Since it will be modular, I think that it would be interesting to see if you can also provide a very basic combination with a very basic electronics module etc, just to give an awesome downres'd 1080p image, just one digital compressed output e.g. 50Mbit (to be able to record to a single ext. hard-drive or Blu Ray) and an F-mount capability so that it can accept a very good but low cost 35mm lens. In other words, a minimalist version for the lower-budget filmmaker! Then, with a reduced total cost it could strongly compete with HDV’s price range and take a much larger share of this market!

BTW, I think that a serious reduction in cost would be possible if you sell exclusively and directly to the customer. Why give 50% to resellers and distributors? It’s not a camera that can be sold in supermarkets. Take 10% more and make it 40% cheaper and instantly 40% more competitive. Organize happenings (sponsored to avoid costs) and take part in exhibitions worldwide so that everyone interested can have a closer look and try the camera. Also you could make sponsored productions too to demonstrate the capabilities of the RED camera to the world…

Or at least keep a specific combination to sell it exclusively and directly to the customer, to compete at that price range! RED Direct for example…

You could also make a super web-site that everybody can have a 2D rotated and a 3D (anaglyph) look of the camera in every combination, with lots of sample clips! Such a site could boost sales more than anything else!

Sorry for making suggestions that nobody asked for…
I understand you might have already better plans; these were just my thoughts…

[imgentertainment@mac]

Sounds good Jim. I can't wait to see the EVF with the new cages sounds very exciting

[John Allardice]

Just wondering, now that the initial design is being split into modules, what will still be included in the original 17.5K red package?

[Greg Lowry]

Any disappointment I may have had with initial camera body designs goes away with the capability of separating the optical block from the electronics. Anything is possible with that configuration.

On the subject of reducing the price, I'm not a RED insider, but anyone who thinks there is lots of profit in the $17.5k camera body is living in dreamland.

[Jannard]

Anyone with a reservation won't be disappointed...

[Anders Holck]

Modularity is really great. Just take the steadicam industry, where mix and match of individual components is standard.

Just make sure the "standard" configuration of components is easy and quick to set up....

[Proteus]

On the subject of reducing the price, I'm not a RED insider, but anyone who thinks there is lots of profit in the $17.5k camera body is living in dreamland.

That's why I said 50% for the distribution channel. The remaining 50% is the cost of the camera + the profit. I estimate profit between 15-25%, probably 20% or $3500.
Yes, that's not much....

That's only a guess of course, just to keep the forum live...:)

[therock]

Modularity was 'promised' right from the beginning, not ?
Nono, don't get me wrong, still a great property ; )

The exact modules were not known, and they sound like a proper division, but the best is the viewfinder, isn't it ?
Thats the great news nobody knew!
Resolution is the key (I believe).

Go on Jim.

[Gibby]

..the best is the viewfinder, isn't it ?
Thats the great news nobody knew!

Actually, in my published interview (April 2006) with Jim Jannard about the specifics of RED, he discussed plans for an output bus (HDMI), and potentially other outputs, to support an electronic viewfinder on the RED One camera. Also, about 3 weeks ago on the DV Info Net RED forum Jannard mentioned that RED now has an electronic viewfinder in development.

My guess is that the EVF will not be ready for release at the time the first RED cameras ship, but it should follow reasonably soon thereafter, if all goes well in its development.

Gibby
RED camera #8
www.cut4.tv
www.4umat.com

[Jarred Land]

modular is the way to go, no question about it. it allows for an even distribution on a mainframe of pieces and make the upgrade process incredibly simple. Im just excited to see what the new body is gonna look like.

[Jay A. Kelley]

I am very happy an EVF is in development. I would trade the small monitor for the EVF in a second.

Jim, I know it's a pain to have a couple hundred people standing over your shoulder.

And while I may be in the big time minority here, I would not hold it against you if you missed your expected selling price by a thousand or two. I feel for you, working as hard as you are on this and yet this forum is filled with so many people screaming CHEAPER! CHEAPER!

An then there are those trying to figure out how much you will make on every RED sold, trying to guess at the various costs of construction, markup, etc. No one seems to be paying attention that for months now you have been spending thousands of dollars EVERY DAY on research and development. I imagine it will be a little while before RED turns an actual profit, but this is normal as you well know.

I am not going to lie or say things I cannot be sure of and tell you that RED is a promised hit, I can say with some certainty that if the camera itself is not wildly successful, something you are developing for it may take you where you want to go.

Like everyone else on here, I am cheering for the complete and total success of the camera.

Jay

[Jarred Land]

well said Jay.. very well said.

[Gibby]

I would trade the small monitor for the EVF in a second.

I need both for the broad range of cine-style and ENG-style projects I do. A high-resolution screen, with advanced focus assist, that is detachable and re-mountable anywhere else on the camera, with a Hoodman-style screenhood will be indispensable for certain hand-held (high/low angle), and Steadycam-style shots. A good, high-resolution EVF will be useful for about every other type of acquisition: shoulder mounted on a brace, tripod, etc.

To truly maximize the utility and revenue generating potential of all the lens formats and resolution formats of RED, an on-board screen and a viewfinder will be necessary. If the combination helps you earn a lot more by enabling a broader range of production genres and sub-genres, having to pay a little more to get an EVF is a very wise investment!

Except for the comments I've made above, I agree with your post.

Gibby
RED camera #8
www.cut4.tv
www.4umat.com

[Jay A. Kelley]

Hey Gibby,

I agree both are always the best choice, but if they said "for 17K you can have the camera and CHOOSE the EVF or monitor", I would START with the viewfinder.. Actually I would most likely just buy both... Yeah, you're right
Jay

[Jay A. Kelley]

Jim I never actually said:
I LOVE that you separated the capture section from the I/O section..
Excellent choice
Jay

[stokestack]

This doesn't mean that the lens mount won't be removable and changeable though, right?

[tuface]

" BTW, I think that a serious reduction in cost would be possible if you sell exclusively and directly to the customer. Why give 50% to resellers and distributors? It’s not a camera that can be sold in supermarkets. "

Uh, I believe RED is direct. That is, if that's what calling the company and placing your order with them means. I mean, no one here placed their order through Best Buy...

[Jay A. Kelley]

" I mean, no one here placed their order through Best Buy...

Uhhhh.. We weren't supposed to pay our deposit to Best Buy?

:furious3: :kali: :crybaby: :Drogar-Sick(DBG):

I was wondering why the guy at the counter was smiling so big!!!

HE BOOSTED MY CASH!!

Damit Jannard!!! You could have said "By the way, we're NOT accepting deposits at Best Buy!" But nooooooooooooo!! You had to let us learn the hard way!

:)

Me

[taubkin]

Man, you guys at RED are geniouses. Every time I hear about this camera I get excited as a little kid in christmas. And I´m really not a big camera geek! If you fulfill 70% of expectations. You´ll already have a competitive product. 100% and you have your revolution.

I´m crossing my fingers!

[acrochordon]

When I get my RED ONE, I will feel like a kid opening his Christmas present and finding a Lego Mindstorm inside.

[acrochordon]

No, maybe I wil be more like a kid getting a Teddy Hidden Cam with IR.

[acrochordon]

OK, here is what the redesigned modular RED ONE will look like. Just joking.

[omen]

I wouldn't be surprised if the expansion joints were made from known X-metal.

Okay, maybe not (for $17k), but at least something similar to avoid scratches.

[Zig_Zigman]

At this point, I wouldn't mind a little less "what we're gonna do" and a little more "here's what we've done"

Let's see some footage from the Wunderkam.

[evinsky]

All in due time, my friend, all in due time.

[therock]

hey guys, hope this is not offtopic.
Is there an HDMI connector built-in ? there was much speculation about, but no definitive info. Just read about the 1.3 specs.
An interesting thing is this:
"HDMI 1.3 introduces a new mini connector aimed at camcorders, digital cameras and other portable devices." (reghardware.co.uk)
As transfer speed (clock rate) is also raised it might be even more worth it to integrate.

[Jarred Land]

yes they have announced that the RED ONE will have a HDMI connector.

[therock]

cool, then I'll take it.:dankk2:


Ahhh, and saw it now. Also for the viewfinder. Good idea. Have to read on.

[evinsky]

Another nice "Modularity" option would be the ability to separate the recording section, regardless of format, Red Drive, Red RAM or Red Raid and teather it to the optical/sensor head via an extension cable. Ideally the LCD/EVF would be on the recording section so you could remotely view and focus using even just the body.

Probably just dreaming here, but that what this board is for.
E.