The Cage... Good Idea? Let's talk

[Jay A. Kelley]

I believe the purpose of this forum is to talk about everything, good or bad. I don't believe Jannard wants this to be simply a RED fan club, but a place for debate. Most he has thought of, but sometimes, we come up with something they may want to talk about.

In that vien I would like to play the "bad guy" for a moment and talk about the cage for red... Good idea, or is it?

The theroy is fine, a outer structure which would allow people to customize the system to their needs. However, if you look at every other camera, you will find NO ONE has wanted to go in this direction.. Instead they have used "bodies" not cages.

Why? I think there are a lot of reasons, but my personal points would be that the cage (as I have seen it) is a design just BEGGING for things to get caught on it. All RED really is at this point is a Lens mount, Sensor, flip out monitor, and IO port. This all makes sense to me except the flip out monitor. As RED is now (without Monitor) it could have been slid into any number of BODIES for cameras and would be perfect. I think there is something to be said for a body with few right angles and enough size & toughness to handle the wieght and abuse of large projects. I would have liked to see the monitor as an option which would mount to the BODIES and not RED itself. I feel the monitor was added to allow people to "get started" without haveing to purchase a whole lot more stuff.

(Here's the part where I get in trouble) I know a lot of attention is being paid to price, people on here constantly scream, make it cheaper! Well it's not going to be really, by the time you are done you will be well past $25K in cost, and that separates the hobbiest from the pro right away. That said I worry that with the fliip out monitor, RED is acting more like a home camcorder in design rather than a professional piece of equipment. I AM NOT SAYING I DON'T LIKE THE MONITOR. I am saying I don't like in attached to the CORE of RED itself. It seems to me that RED core, is about I/O and should stay that way.. Everything else is another subject

I would have preferred some VERY cool camera bodies of different design that the red would slide into. Paying $5K-$6K for such a body would be more than worth it.

Ok this is a poorly written note, but I hope you get where I am going. I think cameras have been designed the way they are for a reason. Audio levels visible on side of camera, White and black balance switches, Audio ports with video on back top mounted film reels, etc.

Ok that's my 2 cents for the day.. Be nice now!

:)

Jay

[Gibby]

Jay,

Constructive input is always welcome, and your posts show you are brainstorming ideas, and filtering that through your production experience - something we all are doing.

About the monitor. The RED team has stated at various intervals that their intent is to make the screen detachable, and re-attachable to other locations on the camera, cage, etc. I hope that's the final decision, that way no matter how you configure the camera, you can simply locate the screen wherever works best for that project. Then when you reconfigure and re-accessorize the camera for a different project you could brainstorm where the screen would be best used, and relocate it to that place. RED has not committed to what the exact technology of the screen will be - LCD, SED, LCoS, or whatever, but they have said that it will be high resolution, and that the focus assist function of the camera will work in unison with the screen. They've also stated that they're planning to have an HDMI, or other high-res output on the camera so users can attach a EVF if they please.

The 1080p, 1080i, and 720p image formats of RED support ENG-style production (sports, reality, documentaries, news b-roll, etc.), which are huge and viable markets for the camera. That's where the re-attachable screen, cage, and the 3 handle system shine. Mobile FigRig style camera movements are enabled by those features. Use a detachable screen hood like a HoodMan for outdoor shoots. SteadyCam use is also aided by a high-res, removable screen. We all love viewfinders too. At the price point of RED, we won't be getting an EVF, but there are outputs planned for the camera if we want to add one. At the least, we can rent an AccuScene or other high quality viewfinder on a per-project basis until we can afford to purchase one. The detachable and re-mountable screen and focus assist function should also help in cine-style configurations to, in unison with an EVF, for framing, etc.

As usual, obviously the specs for the camera have not been finalized, but for much of the kind of work my company does, I'd seriously like to see a high-res, focus assisted, detachable screen. I love the cage and 3 handle concepts because my company does a broad spectrum of cine-style and ENG-style production, a lot of mobile production, and we need to re-configure constantly, and have tons of places to handle a camera, mount accessories, and the ability to make the camera big or small at will.



Gibby
RED camera #8
www.cut4.tv
www.4umat.com

[acrochordon]

Gibby, at #8, you are a real early adopter. I don't see anything wrong with the cage. It looks cool and is functional. If it helps dissapate heat, all the better. Maybe the cage is like the handle on a frying pan. Untill we see it and touch it, we will have to speculate. #8 is a sign of good luck in asia.

[Gibby]

To me #8 is a sign of good luck worldwide, because that's where I'll be using it! I have used professional camera systems from virtually every other manufacturer, but I must say that I have some high hopes and extensive use planned for my RED One camera system.

Luck is the point at which preparation meets opportunity...

Gibby
RED camera #8
www.cut4.tv
www.4umat.com

[acoreasc]

personally, I love the idea of being able to customize a rig to my own choices and preferences. I am a fairly big dude, and sometimes a cramped camera set-up can be a pain in dealing with shooting on a set. I do an awful lot of handheld - so that is where I am holding my breath for RED

[Purple]

I like the concept, and hope that stuff indirectly attached to the body (via the cage) are held in place as solidly as when affixed directly to a regular body. As for the current design, I like stuff that has a simple shape and can be grabbed quickly - without thinking about breaking it or your hands (because your hand might get caught up between the cage and the cam). So that basically means I don't like the cage one, but I guess somebody else will come along an offer a cage with a simpler shape.