Balancing Red Gun?

[toke lahti]

How an earth red gun is meant to use?
With some superlight and supersmall lens?
If you add zoom lens and a matte box to red & gun, the weight balance is somewhere two feet ahead of your sholder.
Ergonomics?

How about "Red Bazooka" for shoulder mount shooting?
Red on the back, battery under it, wf on top of lens and dislpay attached to the top/under/side of mattebox?
As small/short as possible and perfectly counterbalanced.

[Graeme_Nattress]

Shoulder mount is being worked on, and the gun mount is a work in progress.

Graeme

[Jarred Land]

you know what.. that red bazooka idea was actually a pretty good comment.. maybe not a bazooka but styled after a shoulder firing rocket launcher.. where the bazooka is long on the back to counter weight, and the inside back could be weighted to match.

[Steve55]

Personally I can't see why it isn't simply a shoulder mount style camera, like a Sony DSR450 for example. What professionals have loved and liked for years. It balances well and it just works. Can't see the point in a strange shape camera and a bunch of weird ad-ons to get it to try and balance, why not just design the camera right to start with.

If it were a toss up between the RED (when/if it comes out) and an XDCAM HD or HDCAM, I know which I would choose, because I know it will fit on my shoulder and balance right.

Just my opinion.

[Christian Berg]

Steve55, i just don´t agree. All the cameras out there are not so smart built. Like the sony ones, i used the F750 on a short film and it was terrible to work with. The Arri and Aaton is much smarter for filmstyle work. Thats where the Red camera is aiming. I just want a small camera and add the tools that i need. Cage, shoulder mount, etc. Small camera for small spaces and all the extra stuff for larger spaces. It´s just so smart how the Red team is thinking. Go Red!

[Gibby]

Flexibility, utility, and a wider range of projects it can be used for are good reasons to make the RED camera small. The camera can earn you more money that way. You can always accessorize a small camera to make it bigger, but a big camera is - always a big camera. For ENG-style hand held shooting in 1080p, 1080i, and 720p (sports, reality, documentaries) the ability to get the camera off your shoulder for long periods of time and do low, high, moving and POV shots is critical. The RED camera, with a light ENG-style wide angle like the Fujinon HA16x6.3, the 3-handle system with the top handle folded forward, or a cage, plus a screen hood would be the ticket.

A small camera that I can accessorize to make big when I need it allows me to bid a wider range of projects, cine-style (features, commercials, etc. in 2540p, 4k, or 2k) and ENG-style (sports, reality, and news, in 1080p, 720p, or 1080i).

It's about economics. The more versatile the form factor and resolutions of a camera, the wider variety of projects it can be used on. Then you simply rent the accessories for each project and build that into the bid to the client or network.

Gibby
RED camera #8
www.cut4.tv
www.4umat.com

[Jarred Land]

To add to that.. the reason they have the gun is because they want to try something different, and if it works it works if it doesnt it doesnt, RED is just taking things outside the box and seeing if something can be done better. Shoulder mounts are great for heavy cameras.. but for lighter cameras its not needed, the only reason you use a shoulder mount on lighter cameras is for stability.. and we all know a rifle is stable.

Its just a little thought engineering.. that they are being open about. Im sure like everything else with the red the gun will change as it gets closer to production.. but we should all be gracious that Jim and Ted are giving us the opportunity to see inside the development process and make suggestions... its never been done before like this.

[sbove]

Ergonomics are so critical to this design...getting rid of the physics of film and replacing with optional separation of recording device (head) and recorder/batteries is a great step forward for handheld/steadi work...But high quality 35mm optics are always going to be big, so Aaton-style cat on shoulder balance and quick reconfigurability for use on support (heads, dollies, cranes) and with monster lenses/matte boxes (what's that flea attached to the back of your Optimo/6x6?) will also be very important...

seems like the RED crew should be very observant of all the usual cam-support gear that pros are going to NEED to attch to this thing...

[Gibby]

Agreed...for cine-style pros (features, indies, commercials, etc.), ENG-style pros (sports, reality, news. etc.), and convergent pros who shoot in both of those styles. The lens formats support all styles of production, so the scalability of form factor needs to enable the same. Accessorize RED to suit each individual project, rent what you need, and bill the client for the the rental fees.

If I was an aftermarket accessory manufacturer I'd be feverishly busy designing cine-style and ENG-style accessories for RED, or making plans to pitch existing products that will already be useful for production with the camera.

Gibby
RED camera #8
www.cut4.tv
www.4umat.com

[toke lahti]

Personally I can't see why it isn't simply a shoulder mount style camera, like a Sony DSR450 for example. What professionals have loved and liked for years. It balances well and it just works.
Sony's 2/3" cameras (from dvcam to hdcam) are quite usable with light eng lens and small battery, but with bigger lens, matte box & french flag & side wings, big battery, wireless receivers, wireless tc & gen lock etc they get easily front heavy and very, very long and so cumbersome in tight places and fast movement or operating.
Better idea would be modularity since data/power can travel in cable ("wearable camera") or build to other dimensions than just front-back.

[Jarred Land]

Better idea would be modularity since data/power can travel in cable ("wearable camera") or build to other dimensions than just front-back.

Your so right.. having a modular design lets you actually place things according to your design to balance things out. I like your reference to data and power being just a cable.. lets you put stuff way back or way forward. Just get a nice pair of 36" 15mm rails and move things around :)

[acoreasc]

my issue with the bazooka design is where is my 1st AC going to go - seems the follow-focus system will be pretty much alligned with my head and left arm...unless the AC sets up on the right side of the camera which doesn't always work on location.

[Jarred Land]

1st AC going to go - seems the follow-focus system will be pretty much alligned with my head and left arm..

ahhh.. wireless seems so attractive.