Does kissing up and brown-nosing work?

[donkathon]

Has anyone honestly tried to contact one of the major film studios and ask for some small amounts of cash (1000-2500) or any other items, such as props or old retired equipment?

Perhaps the unused ends of film stock?

Or how about advertisement purposes- putting their logo for cash?

Im wondering, because I figure if they can give some idiot 53million to an idiot to make Dukes of Hazzard, they can spare small amounts of money or equipment to us small-folk. If you've tried, please tell me what they thought of your request.

P.S- Do tell if you had a fiscal 501(c)(3) sponsorship for tax deduction.

[rook]

They will give you anything you ask. As long as it's guaranteed to make them money.

BTW, Dukes info for ya...

Domestic: $80,270,227 72.6%
+ Foreign: $30,333,649 27.4%
= Worldwide: $110,603,876

Not a bad return on 53 mill.

A studio is just a fancy name for business. And businesses are required to make money not art.

Approach them with a way to make them money and you'll be better off than asking for a hand-out.

-rook

[donkathon]

They will give you anything you ask. As long as it's guaranteed to make them money.

BTW, Dukes info for ya...

Domestic: $80,270,227 72.6%
+ Foreign: $30,333,649 27.4%
= Worldwide: $110,603,876

Not a bad return on 53 mill.

-rook


Wow- they would give you money. Im not sure I expected that. But, Im talking low-class stuff, not anything that would reach outside a local festival.

Thank you so much for commenting, rook. :dankk2:

And on your Dukes comment, though it made 110mill, it was still a terrible movie. Hehe...

[JY_Blue]

actually thought Dukes was pretty funny. especially enjoyed Wilie Nelson chuckin' moonshine and crackin' jokes.

[rook]

I agree. Dukes was awful. But even making an aweful movie that earns dollars isn't easy.

If you are looking for freebies, try contacting the companies themselves. Sometimes panavision will loan cameras and kodak has given away ends in the past. Bring them your idea, a reel and your youthfull enthusiasm and give it a go.

-rook

[donkathon]

actually thought Dukes was pretty funny. especially enjoyed Wilie Nelson chuckin' moonshine and crackin' jokes.

Yea, some parts were funny. But overall, it was really really bad. That Broken Lizard guy, Jay Charnanasharahanr (I really dont know, and I dont feel like IMDb'ing it) really ruined it. He makes bad movies, hands down. Some parts were funny, but some people here could make better movies with only a half a million dollars, plain and simple.

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

... I figure if they can give some idiot 53million to an idiot to make Dukes of Hazzard, they can spare small amounts of money or equipment to us small-folk. If you've tried, please tell me what they thought of your request.

P.S- Do tell if you had a fiscal 501(c)(3) sponsorship for tax deduction. An idiot that made a comic cult hit and two funny underground hits that more than made back what they cost.

So ... that with the other stars and premise attached seemed like a good business risk.

Seeming like a good business risk works.

Brown nosing gets you thinks like a discounts on contact lenses and some company letting you barrow a freeze dried rat to use as a prop in exchange for saying "freeze dried rat provided by"

the only other thing that will het you produced other than seeming like a good business risk is being somebodies vanity project ... which means that they think you are brilliant and they want the credit for debuting you.

I guess favors do come into play ... but would you give somebody 53 million dollars as a favor.

as for 501(c)(3) status ... that's non profit ... are you trying to raise 53 million for a film that its illegal for people to make their money back on?

there are 501(c)(3) films that get made, but unless you are getting money from an individual the kinds of foundations and institutes that give money to non-profits do so according to their mission statement -- i.e. making minority voices heard, promoting awareness about animal cruelty, etc. Of course brownosing won't hurt (unless its incensere) but can only put you over some other guy if you meet the requirements for that organization or grant.

A note on 501(c)(3) status -- don't do it unless you are really sure that's what you want. I produced non-profit theatre for 10 years without becoming a non profit ... now this was small potatoes stuff but there are tons of Umbrella organazations around such as Allied Arts that will allow you to use their 501(c)(3) status. In exchange they take 5 - 10% of small checks and 1-2% of really large checks.

Why is that better than being non-profit yourself ... to be a non profit you have to form a board that is invested in what you are doing. The purpose of a board for a non-profit is to steer the organization and make sure it stays true to its mission statement and that the funds are being used towards that end. In otherwords, they can fire you. Lots of theatre companies are started by some driven producing director who assembles a board of directors which then fires him or her somewhere down the road (usually with good reason).

Unlike a producer or a board, an umbrella organiztion doesn't care so much what you do on set or with the mission of your work. They may ask what your mission statement is but if you change your mind that's your perogative.

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

Jack Daniel Stanley, I see where you are going with your very helpful post. I fell bad though, because I should have should have mentioned that if I did seek out a 501(c)(3), I would do it through an Umbrella organization. But I also should have mentioned that I would NEVER seek out a non-profit status, because its too much work.

I simply asked because I wanted to know if the studios respond more to the non-profit status.

But thanks anyway! :dankk2:
I don't think they would -- non-profit is the antithesis of studio. They are about making money -- unless they have some small division for tax breaks and public relations that gives to non profits, but I've never heard of that ... and I'm just guessing about what a studio would or wouldn't do based on what makes sense to me anyway.

goodluck :thumbsup:

jack

[donkathon]

Thanks again.

Now, which studio to ask...

[zoostory]

I'm almost LOLing at this thread. Of course, knowing my luck, you'll ask the studios and they'll say yes.

I been around the studios for a while. They're an old breed. And while true, they will take a project with a guaranteed return (which, by the way, is impossible to prove), they will only take projects from larger production companies who back you in a series of pitches to many, many execs. If you manage to get a greenlight (which does not mean your movie will be made, it means the right person at the studio with contact to the trade papers said yes) then you'll be in business. Following a greenlight, you will go into a formal contract/deal memo which will specify who has what rights. If this is your first feature, then you will NOT get final cut or final casting rights, unless you are the son of god or something the like. It's doubtful you will even get to direct, unless you really play your cards right.

Then, you need to turn profit for not just the studio, but the production company in partnership.

And then the foreign market is a whole different ballgame, each market requiring cerfitication for pre-sale. If your product is owned by a studio, then they will generally handle all of that and reap the benefits.

Dukes of Hazard was taken to Warner Brothers by Village Roadshow productions. Often times the studios fix the cost of film production by doing things like excluding marketing, which cost an additional 40 million dollars worldwide for the dukes of hazard. Also remember that 50% or more of the box office goes to the theater chains. Not to mention back end points spent, possibly on actors, and if smart, the director took some back end. So 110 mil isn't that impressive, it probably didin't go into profit until DVD sales, which is why they opted to make Dukes of Hazard 2 a direct to DVD market.

I've been around this block a few times. If you think the studios will finance your indie creative idea, be prepared to be dissapointed. In this day and age most writer directors find independent financing, do a feature, shop that around for festivals and distribution, and if one of the lucky and talented ones, then land the attention of the studios. And even then, they won't get final cut on their first feature, without making many other sacrifices.

[donkathon]

Zoostory, thanks for that.

I am indeed expecting "no"s from studios, but I would never even dream of thinking of expecting them to consider funding an entire movie.

I am a different "low-budget" kinda person. Im not no-budget, Im lower than that. Thats why I would ask for some petty cash. I figure this would make them feel "special" for promoting the arts, and allowing them to get their logo in the title sequence and in the credits. I might be dreaming, though.

Im trying to figure it out, though. I read "no-budget" websites, and they always say "You should be willing to pay 20000-25000 dollars to make it complete. If 20000 is no-budget, what it literally no-budget.

If I can get even the smallest amount of money from them, I'd buy a DVX, and a good mic, and make me a full feature (Ive already got Vegas and all that good stuff, and ive made countless dollies and lighting systems). Probably give them 5% of the profit for thanks, and then they would notice me. (BTW, im still dreaming.) Then I make another, send it to sundance, and make more.

Dreaming is like a WalMart in a small-town Quebec city. Magical and terrible at the same time.

[zoostory]

The question you'de have to ask is: "why donate to you, when there are so many others in the same situation."

Film and Video making are not a charity, but an industry. Especially when you involve the studios. If all you want is a DV camera and a good mic, I suggest you do what we have all done... work for it or ask people you know for donations.

In the end, it is talent, hard work, and who you know (or get to know) that will help you. Asking the studios for a small charity donation is off course for beginning a successful filmmaking career.

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

here's a feature made for 10K shot on the DVX
http://www.sexmachinemovie.com/
if you want to see 3 shorts shot for $300 - $500 each visit my website French Quarter Features (link in my signature).
also none of these budgest include gear already owned ... include that and all of my shorts jump to 10K and the feature listed above would jump to 20K.


I just don't see how it can be done for less than $100 per minute (hence my $500 six minute films). And then a feature would be 9K- 10K. This is paying NO ONE. This covers feeding your crew, transportation, and some set, costume, and makeup items.

[dailyrushes]

I have been sold a slightly used quality microphone for half-price from a rental house, I have been given filmmaking odds and ends like grip tape, black line, white/black cards etc. from productions where they wanted only new stuff for their crew...bought $200.00 lights for $50.00 each...I haven't pushed this to any limit, because I believe in making my own way and not asking for a lot of handouts. But sometimes a little help is needed and appreciated by up-and-comers

Get to know people in the business who can help you. Develop a rapport .

It's just people helping people, we're all people, and people appreciate a real person with a little talent who is trying to make it in the same business they they were working to make it in years before. Someone(s) helped them get to wherever they are, many established filmmakers enjoy returning the favor to someone they see in the same position they were in years before.

Somewhere out there are the next Frank Capras, or Steven Spielbergs, trying to make it along with the rest of us...they see this truth, and wouldn't it be nice if they were the ones who helped him make it!

If you will look at directories of filmmaking organizations around your area, (L.A. being one of the best in my opinion) and get to know some of these groups, you find that there are a lot of very creative and helpful people in them, find some way to "get in" (like, for instance, be a p.a.) and know them, and the rest should be easy for a truly creative person.

The whole world turns on personal contact, common reality and thus liking for one another, which leads to understanding. A good conversation may work much better than the best-tuned pitch. Good conversations often happen at parties...if the music isn't so idioticallty loud you can't hear anything...try to get invited to some!

[Greggl]

Hehe... why would a studio want to open themselves up to the legal quandry
and bad press if a 'director' they tossed a few grand, got someone killed or
went out and shot kiddie porn with the money.

Its not gonna happen... Get a credit card :)

[donkathon]

Oh boy... thats a point, greggl. But I wouldnt do that. Ever.

No, I dont want to sound greedy. I keep thinking how that would be kinda unfair- getting money and others dont.

I guess I'm asking because I'm on my way to a gigantic farm in Quebec, Canada, where I have an entire 100 acres of farm house and fields and silos and barns, and cows, and I want to shoot something there.

The only problem is: all I have is a tripod and a PV-GS31 (cheapo cam, cost me 200$)
And I have no money to buy anything.

[acoreasc]

if you are going to charge something - let it be something that can make you money - a camera is the most logical choice. Believe me, putting yourself in a hole on a movie could take you over ten years to pay off. It's happened to many of my friends and they are still digging out. Kevin Smith is the exception, not the rule.

[acoreasc]

you can always find someone who is an aspiring editor (who will most likely have their own editing station) to cut your film afterwards. The most important thing to do is get it in the can. A great location, like this farm possibly, could do more for your production value than any money you could dish out. Good luck!

[donkathon]

Yea, Im not using any credit cards or anything.

And I would buy a camera- its what I NEED. Honestly, if I were to inquire to a studio, and I got money, I'd buy a DVX100B. I wouldnt dream of using it for anything else. A PV-GS31 isnt going to do me any good, any time soon.

[Paul Coleman]

I guess I'm asking because I'm on my way to a gigantic farm in Quebec, Canada, where I have an entire 100 acres of farm house and fields and silos and barns, and cows, and I want to shoot something there.

The only problem is: all I have is a tripod and a PV-GS31 (cheapo cam, cost me 200$)
And I have no money to buy anything.

Why not network? Link up with people here and through Craigslist. Email the script to them. Get them interested. Plenty of people that own a DVX who would love to get credit in a feature. Especially if they like the concept/script. :thumbup:

[Greggl]

Yea, Im not using any credit cards or anything.


Ok.. lets not consider this an attack.. lets think of it as an intervention.

You want to spend someone else's money.. that we're aware of. The
problem is that you don't want to have to pay it back. With a credit
card, they come after you if you can't cover the loan... You'd rather
take risks with cash that you can blow, guilt free.

I think that you need to get your priorities in line before making
any purchases or career moves :)

[Kegan]

Yeah, that's a great idea. I'm in Ontario and soon moving to London (Ontario) to go to school, but if you plan on doing this during the summer or next summer and have a place for me to crash I'd gladly work with you provided the script and stuff is good. Just gotta network yourself like already said. Where there's a will, there's a way.

Oh, and yes I do have a DVX100b haha.

-Kegan

[donkathon]

Yeah, that's a great idea. I'm in Ontario and soon moving to London (Ontario) to go to school, but if you plan on doing this during the summer or next summer and have a place for me to crash I'd gladly work with you provided the script and stuff is good. Just gotta network yourself like already said. Where there's a will, there's a way.

Oh, and yes I do have a DVX100b haha.

-Kegan

Thanks, but naw. I cant. And lets discuss why. Its the reason that I cant use a credit card, why I cant get help or use craigslist, and I cant do anything else. But that later.

The reason I dont want to spend my own money (which has amounted to about enough for a used DVX100B) are because I dont have to. I could go to my homeland, Canada, and relax on the farm and enjoy summer. But a month and a half can bring some boredom, and I've conjured a script, and I'd love to make something to give to some festivals and hopefully make a little cash. So why not?

Back to the reason I'm limited. Most of you will hate me for it, because of no real reason. Ill be shunned at these DVX Forums, most likely. Its because I'm fourteen years old.

Im not dumb- Im actually really smart (though I dont say that to sound stuck-up.) I have money, but I dont have to spend it. I cant get a job, folks, because I need a greencard in america, because you've learned that I lived in canada. But I'm a try-fail-try again kind of person. Like Bob Dylan said, "If you've got nothing, you've got nothing to lose." If I ask, and I get nothing, I've got other studios to politely ask. If one says yes, I get the money, buy the camera guilt free (not wasting all my saved-up money), use my script, make a movie, and have fun with it. I've got nothing to lose. Im sure the studios dont need to know how old I am. Everyones allowed to have a dream.

So respond to this with either an attack, curses, compliments, or quesitons.

[zoostory]

You're age means little to me, though mark it up as another hurdle against you getting anything anytime soon. Still, if you are driven, you can make things happen. The problem isn't your age. It's your inability to listen. Nobody in any studio or anywhere cares that you have a farm and passion to make a great movie. For that matter, no studio cares about anything shot in video with a DVX or any other prosumer camera.

Unless your last name is Spielberg or Lucas or something, you're going to have to do things the hardway like the rest of us. Work, earn, meet and greet, write, rewrite, practice, learn.

I suggest you start humbly. Meet other people in your school that have the same passion you do. Form a team, and get going at a young age. Use whatever camera you have right now to learn and practice. You still have a lens, and you can still compose shots, edit them together, and tell a story. You'll find that it's not that easy, and a DVX isn't the miracle cure to making a good movie.

You're playing in a big game with a lot of competition. Use your age as an advantage, you have the time to shoot a lot, learn a lot, and develop life-long friendships with similar interests.

Then in 5 years, I'll see you in Los Angeles with the ten million other people from all over the world that have landed here thinking they are the next big thing :)

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

You're age means little to me, though mark it up as another hurdle against you getting anything anytime soon. Still, if you are driven, you can make things happen. The problem isn't your age. It's your inability to listen.
ditto

Nobody in any studio or anywhere cares that you have a farm and passion to make a great movie.
ditto

For that matter, no studio cares about anything shot in video with a DVX or any other prosumer camera.
humbly disagree and their are several examples that suggest otherwise

Unless your last name is Spielberg or Lucas or something, you're going to have to do things the hardway like the rest of us. Work, earn, meet and greet, write, rewrite, practice, learn.

I suggest you start humbly. Meet other people in your school that have the same passion you do. Form a team, and get going at a young age. Use whatever camera you have right now to learn and practice.
exactly!

You still have a lens, and you can still compose shots, edit them together, and tell a story. You'll find that it's not that easy, and a DVX isn't the miracle cure to making a good movie.

You're playing in a big game with a lot of competition. Use your age as an advantage, you have the time to shoot a lot, learn a lot, and develop life-long friendships with similar interests.

Then in 5 years, I'll see you in Los Angeles with the ten million other people from all over the world that have landed here thinking they are the next big thing :)
yes yes yes.

By the time you exhaust your list of studios to politely ask ... summer will be over.

Buy a DVX or use your current camera and make your film with no money this summer ... especially if its your first film.

NO studio is going to give ANY money to FOURTEEN year old on a first effort. You can accept that and make your movie anyway, or you can waste your summer soliciting studios for money.

I'm 34.
I had a 10 year career in the theatre.
I've made three shorts each of which has placed in the top 3 in DVXuser festivals this year.
Because of that, I have a producer backing a very low budget feature for me (less than 100K). I'm making a movie with someone else's money. I got a very small piece of the pie by working my ass off showing what I can do. You're not going to get a crumb just because you are "plucky".

You MIGHT sell your screenplay or sell an option to it. But to do that you will more than likely need an agent and that will take a while.

I had a couple of friends shoot a zombie film on a $200 camera in their hometown. The premise was that in the future cloning was unstable and the clones eventually turned into zombies ... now cloning is illegal but clones which were originally created for slave labor are now highly valuable as research subjects on the black market. Enter our hero, a con just released from prison who is hired by a mob boss to make a simple delivery to a clone dealer. Oh .. also the clones eat humans ... so if you are trafficking in them, you have to kidnap and murder people to keep your business going. Of course the hero finds the clonde dealer dead from a clone attack and the compound overun with clones and he has to shoot his way out and rescue a pretty hostage in the process.

It's not very good but has some cool shots and parts in it. The thing that sucks most bout it was that the mob boss was played by a 17 year old. -- first note: cast age approraite actors.

BUT the POINT of this story .... they sold the damn thing for $30k. It was not airable or distributable, but some production company liked the idea of it enough to buy the rights to it, perhpas to make a movie with that same premise some day.

These guys had auditions in the highschool gym, paid no one, bought and returned rubber body parts and made their movie.

As a result of that less than Citizen Kane effort, they got some money off it, made their next thing, and have been part of a DVD festival available for a while in BlockBuster (or Hollywood video).

So make your movie.

Before I got mmy DVX I shot a Zombie Parody on a single chip $200 cam and went black and white and tried to make it look like old film ... so I turned the low production value into sinething integral to the story.

I felt like their were DVXes all around me ... tauntiing me ... seducing me with their 3 chips and and 24p frame rates. But I didn't let that keep me from making a movie when the opportunity arose. I dusted off my $200 canon, which was already 3 years old when I got it on eBay 3 years before that and made something.

Go make some shorts ... Go do a few things ... Go learn a few things ... who knows, maybe they'll be good enough to get you other people's money.

But right now you have the cart before the horse.

[donkathon]

Rightly so.

[D_and_G]

Great post Jack.

To add in my 3 pence...

Try and find a young or teen centered film center. In Ontario there are several foundations and festivals, and corporate sponsorships help with those. When it's an official organization you have more access to equipment and like minded chaps.

You might be in the countryside, but if you started a local youth film co-op in your area, maybe at a local community center, or library, then you might get help from people you didn't even know would want to. When it's just one person asking for a handout, I don't think you'd have much luck. If you tried to do something that would have positive results for more people than just yourself, you may get some corporate help, or community help. Anyway, there's been plenty of good advice from other posters, so you should be aaight. Good luck with your flick.

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

Rightly so. Well have fun ramming your horse into the back of your cart and seeing how far down the road you get ... I thought you said you were smart.

Wanna take a personal bet that at the end f the summer you'll still be sitting around talking about making a movie?
(that is if you persist with this studio nonesense)

I'll put $20 on it.

Here's a thought. Email me your script and I'll tell you if there's even a prayer that another human being would put 2¢ into.

Don't mean to sound too harsh, but when 14 year olds come here and ask for advice and don't listen ... well it has to get a little tough.

No one here is trying to discourage you from making a movie. No one here is debating whether or not you are in fact the next [insert favorite director here].

We're just trying to tell you that you're wasiting your time ... that you are focused on the wrong thing. Right now you should be focusing on making the best film you can with the available materials.

They did a survey in LA where they randomly stopped people on the streets and asked them how their screenplay was going. One out of three had an answer.

But good luck to you as you push your cart into town by butting your horsehead into it past all the people that have training and experience and life experience that are already there. Maybe you'll be such a spectacle with your horse with a bloodied head and cracked falling apart cart that you'll get media coverage and sign a 3 picture deal somewhere :thumbsup:

[donkathon]

Hey, man. I was agreeing with you, and appreciated the answer. I thought that was what "Rightly So" meant. If it doesnt mean the same thing I thought, I really am sorry.

I really liked that post.

[Future user]

There is a girl who started shooting stuff and posting it on youtube. For whatever reason, it became insanely popular and now she is going off to work with MTV on something. Can't tell you what, because frankly I really don't care. The point of this is, you don't need equipment. You need persistence, and the ability to listen. If you're smart you will learn the latter and never forget to.
Go make something with whatever you have handy. If a $200 camera is all you have, then shoot with it.
I shot video riding my mootrcycle on some country roads, edited it on windows movie maker, showed it to my brother who works in the industry, and was told to work on the editing. He couldn't care less what it was shot on. It was the concept, the execution, and the editing he looked at.
Walk down the aisle at Block Buster. How many of the titles have you watched? For the most part they all had budgets and gear and stuff. But they sucked. So don't worry about what you have but what you're going to do with it.
Sorry for the ramble, just finished the Austin 48 hour film contest adn I'm still wiped out.

[donkathon]

48 hours. Wow, thats as ridiculous as the word Flange.

It's ridiculous.

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

Hey, man. I was agreeing with you, and appreciated the answer. I thought that was what "Rightly So" meant. If it doesnt mean the same thing I thought, I really am sorry.

I really liked that post. sorry ... your "rightly so" came right after I said "you have the cart before the horse" which I took to mean that you wanted to have your cart before the horse.

There was a thread last month where a 17 year old kid was trying to get $500K to make a movie and was insisting on buying a varicam and learning how to use it in a weak.

He wouldn't listen to anyone and stirred up enough ruckus with his obstenance that the thread was finally locked due to its volitile nature.

Thought we were going down that road again.

My bad.

[TimurCivan]

Brown nosing gets you thinks like a discounts on contact lenses and some company letting you barrow a freeze dried rat to use as a prop in exchange for saying "freeze dried rat provided by"




BWAHAHAHAHAHAH!

[TimurCivan]

The only problem is: all I have is a tripod and a PV-GS31 (cheapo cam, cost me 200$)
And I have no money to buy anything.

If you light that PVgs31 the right way it will make a nice image.

there was this kid running arund a few years ago, Questionman31 or somethign.

He was making GORGEOUS videos with his Sony TRV70.

i have a TRV70. after seeing his work i descided to light somethign the right way and tape it. The TRV 70 ROCKED OUT.


Dude seriously. a 200$ camera, and 2000$ worth of lights, is better than a 3500$ camera and poor lighting gear. but the beauty isthat you dont need 2000$ worth of lights. Just get creative.

Home Depot, has 12$ 500Watt HAlogen work lights, as well as 7$ 250watters. 3 of thoes lights, 3 Basic 20$ lighting stands and a few hours garage time, with a drill and a some nuts and bolts and youve got a lighting kit. If youre REALLLLLY clever you will realise that you can glue, ( neatly) silvery shiny relfective cloth from a fabric store to the inside of n old umbrella and make an umbrella reflector..... (they even sell umbrella reflector holders online for like 20$ at B&H), or that while youre at home depot buying the lights you can also buy silver sided Tyvek board, which acts miraculously well as a reflector.......


use youre head. dont worry about technology, because if youre gonna make anythign god you will make it with whats at hand. Real artists will draw or make art wit hwhatever they have. not wait till they can get 3500$ worth of paint.

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

Brown nosing gets you thinks like a discounts on contact lenses and some company letting you barrow a freeze dried rat to use as a prop in exchange for saying "freeze dried rat provided by"

BWAHAHAHAHAHAH!
:cheesy: ladies and gentlemen ... exhibit "A"
http://www.frenchquarterfeatures.com/images/ratty.gif

[donkathon]

If you light that PVgs31 the right way it will make a nice image.

there was this kid running arund a few years ago, Questionman31 or somethign.

He was making GORGEOUS videos with his Sony TRV70.

i have a TRV70. after seeing his work i descided to light somethign the right way and tape it. The TRV 70 ROCKED OUT.


Dude seriously. a 200$ camera, and 2000$ worth of lights, is better than a 3500$ camera and poor lighting gear. but the beauty isthat you dont need 2000$ worth of lights. Just get creative.

Home Depot, has 12$ 500Watt HAlogen work lights, as well as 7$ 250watters. 3 of thoes lights, 3 Basic 20$ lighting stands and a few hours garage time, with a drill and a some nuts and bolts and youve got a lighting kit. If youre REALLLLLY clever you will realise that you can glue, ( neatly) silvery shiny relfective cloth from a fabric store to the inside of n old umbrella and make an umbrella reflector..... (they even sell umbrella reflector holders online for like 20$ at B&H), or that while youre at home depot buying the lights you can also buy silver sided Tyvek board, which acts miraculously well as a reflector.......


use youre head. dont worry about technology, because if youre gonna make anythign god you will make it with whats at hand. Real artists will draw or make art wit hwhatever they have. not wait till they can get 3500$ worth of paint.

I see where you are going. Its not the oicture I'm worried about, its the sound. I think we all know that every consumer Panasonic cam has the worst mic possible. Well, mine has no Mic input. I've been looking for two months at MD and DAT recorder, and they are all too expensive. To me, I would rather have good sound than good picture- its what seperates a cheap looking indie piece from a beautiful feature.

[Future user]

Worry about things in order...
Story
is it any good
is it worth watching
is it well written
will it make sense
Direction
location
sets
lights
believability
continuity
Acting
can they
are they
do they
Editing
practice your chops
don't rely on anything to "save" bad shots
consistancy is everything
Score
Sound
native sound
foley work
sound effects
Titles

additional stuff: pacing, timing, continuity (yes I'm saying it again)
Lot's of stuff can be done in the editing room. But you seem to be looking for limitations to stop you from doing something. Get out there with whatever you have and shoot, play, have fun, practice, work hard , study other filmmakers, study online, read books form the library. Ask questions about specific situations and then problem solve.
Honestly my young friend, it sounds a bit like your looking for a place to whine about not having the nice toys. Not trying to sound mean or anything. When I was fourteen I didn't have a video camera of any kind. Had I I would have been shooting everything. You have a world of opportunity in your hands. You can shoot on what you have, edit with windows movie maker, slide in a track from your favorite CD and see how it turns out. I shot the first thing anyone ever saw on a Mustek dv5, edited with WMM, and it's still getting looked at on another site.
The greatest tool you have lies between your ears and behind your eyes.

[Beat Takeshi]

If one says yes, I get the money, buy the camera guilt free (not wasting all my saved-up money),

This line says it all, if you cant bring yourself to invest in your own movie then why would you think someone else would.

[TimurCivan]

Pto do you have a job? get a summer job. and buy equpitment.

how old are you anyway.

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

He's 14 Timur ... which might make an "on the books" job a problem ... but there are ways around that and if he's mostly concerned about sound then he just needs to earn $400 to get into the neighborhood of "acceptible".


I see where you are going. Its not the oicture I'm worried about, its the sound. I think we all know that every consumer Panasonic cam has the worst mic possible. Well, mine has no Mic input. I've been looking for two months at MD and DAT recorder, and they are all too expensive. To me, I would rather have good sound than good picture- its what seperates a cheap looking indie piece from a beautiful feature.
well if the MD recorders are too expensive then you're SOL on a good mic.

We have talked a lot about working with what's at hand.

I do think you may be dissapointed if you can't do something about your audio however.

Simply put we will percieve low fi video as an aesthetic, grungey, intentional, or otherwise, and bad audio will always be ... bad audio.

Video game companies have done studies finding that great audio caused games with phenomenal graphics to be rated as mediocre and games with mediocre graphics to rate much higher, as high as the games with awesome graphics in some instances.

I think in that light, good audio is MORE important than video -- especially if you are not going to the big screen for a while. For George Lucas, sure audio and video are 50% each of the experience and to be treated with equal importance (he has said as much) but if you are going to the web or DVD for your final product now I would say its 60% audio 40% video in terms of polish and quality.

So believe it or not I am going to encourage you to spend money.

You can get set up with something that won't dissapoint you and will feel like a big leep from your on camera mic (because it will be) for less than $400 I think. (even less if you can find it on eBay -- which I would do if the seller had a high rating).

Seems like a big number, but an industrious 14 year old such as yourself can get a hold of that during a Summer if he so chooses.

METHOD 1
Can't remember what child labor laws are, but if you can get a job at McDonalds ... work there for three weeks and then quit. Or ask if you can go part time after three weeks (that way you'll have money for lights from the hardeware store, fake blood, trips to the thrift store, craft services "food" for your cast and crew, etc) Yes McDonalds sucks but, hey I did it for a Summer when I was 19.

METHOD 2
Barring the above or in addition too, ask for Christmas (or Hanukah or what have you) cash, and birthday cash all upfront from every family member that spends money on or gives money to you for those occasions. Tell them that you expect nothing under the tree or in a pile by your birthday cake when those days come. Your selling points are
they don't have to go shopping
they'll have more cash at Christamas (or Hanukah or what have you) because they won't have to deal with you while they are getting things for everyone.
your good kid and this is impotant to you as you think you might want to be a filmmaker
you are going to work with an old camera that you have, but its ill equiped for sound and based on your meticulous research (site some of the examples I listed about the necessity of good sound)METHOD 3
Form a film collective with 3 like minded friends that you get a long well with and each of you raise $100 to get the sound gear. Then this summer you will shoot 4 shorts spending a week or two on each wherein each of you gets to be the "boss" or lead filmmaker.

METHOD 4
Send a letter to all your family and friends saying how important this is to you and $5or $10 will help.

METHOD 5
Throw a party with live music. Get a friend with a band to play at your party and charge $2 a head to get in.

METHOD 6
etc., etc.


Ok .... this as ghetto as it gets (for "good" sound anyway)

iRiver T30 $149 = 1gig, $99 = 512mb
http://www.iriveramerica.com/images/prod/ultra/t30/T30-512/t30-angle.jpg
+
Azden SGM X with mini output $99.95
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/items/257751.jpg

The Iriver will record at CD quality like an MD. So you are all good there (a DAT is 24 bit vs 16 however)

the SGM X is not the greatest mic in the world, but I started on it and got better results than my Senheizzer ME-66/k6 on occasion because it has a wider pickup pattern which is bad for real pros who zero in on the sound they want with a super narrow pattern, but not always so good for uncle joe or your friend from algebra that are holding the boom mic for you off axis from what you want to record.

You will also need a shock mount
Azden SMH-1 $29
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/items/225809.jpg
you can't get around this. Bumps from the camera, a hand, or boom pole touching the mic will be recorded and audible. Even just repositioning your hands or tightening your grip can be recorded without the shock mount.

Now BOOM POLE is one area you might be able to fudge ... they run from $69 - thousands of dollars ... but if you can figure out a way to attach the shock mount to a broom handle or dowel then maybe that will work.

Without the boom pole, you might as well attach the mic to your camera light shoe (assuming it has one) and call it a day, because chances are you will be able to get closer to your actors than a friend holding a mic without a boom pole. Once you get to closeups he can hold the shothun mount like a pistol just above camera view or to the side if necessary.

[donkathon]

Im limited on money, all. I've made that clear. I would kill for a job, but I reside in North Carolina, but lived in Canada. Im workin on a Green Card, but dont have one, meaning any kind of job is illegal.

Though when I go to Canada, I CAN get a job... now I'm onto something.

Jack Daniel Stanley, that is a very nice post. I really appreciate it. I've had a "quitcherbitchin" pistol pointed at me for a while, and this thread has pulled the trigger.

Im still alive, dont worry, but now with a kind of renewed sense of "hope", but not in a melodramatic way. I will look into that mic and recorder. It looks good, though I'm curious how much time it will hold. Also, I think I've seen that kind of recorder, but with an SD Card slot. Maybe that way I can store more than just a gig. I'm building a dolly (in the cinematography section at the moment, there is more detail, and I will post some pictures later), and soon, I going to get a bunch of people I know who want to make a movie and get them to pitch in to pay for the sound equipment. Watch out folks, my movie is gonna "rock" though it will be a while. I threw out my old 120 page script. I didnt like it- not real enough.

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

Right I forgot you are both underage and illegal.

So that still leaves 4 fundraising methods in my post.

Also, coulnd't you go back to canada for a month and work in a McDonalds there. If your family has moved to North Carolina, then could you sleep on a friends couch in canada and work for a month? How bad do you actually want to do this?

... if you REALY want to be a filmmaker ... $400 doesn't seem like a huge obstacle for someone who's earned, or gift, or begged for income is ENTIRELY dissposable.

in fact, it pales in comparrison to the many obstacles that filmmaking will throw at you.

If you can't find $400 with no rent to pay, no bills to pay, no expenses ... then ... I don't know what to say ...

[donkathon]

Oh trust me, I've been job seaching in for places in Canada for a while now. And I do have a place to stay. And I did acknowledge your 4 other fundraising methods.

I told you, man, I learned a lesson. I also lengthened my last post, in case you didnt see it.

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

No I didn't see the lengthened post til now.

I think you can record about as long as a DV tape on that recorder since a CD is 45 minutes on 750 mb, seems like you'd get about an hour out of 1gig.

An hour = one mini DV cassette and its rare that I will shoot more than an hour of footage in a day.

If you think you will then you just need a way to offload the sound you've recorded just like working with p2 cards and an HVX.

If you have a laptop then you are all set. Just copy the sound files over to the laptop on location MAKE SURE YOU HAVE IT COPIED AND CAN ACCESS THE FILE, then erase the iRiver. THe iRiver, which I think came out in the UK first has been an indie tool for a while there, but hasn't caught on here. It's basically a mini ipod but with a 16bit sound input jack so you can make mp3's right from an old turntable or what have you.

If you can find and extra $150, you'll find a big jump in the $250 mics from the $100 I listed, but teh $100 will surprise you with the results you get, especially compared to your in camera mic.

[donkathon]

I dont have a laptop, so Im trying to figure what to use to upload the sound to...

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

that's a tough one ...

but for narrative film its rare that you would shoot an hour of footage in 4 hours say
, especially with one camera (which is actually best for a number of reasons).

So worst case scenario, you could take a break if you needed and drive home and dump it on your computer. It's not like you'll be doing that every hour. More than likely you wouldn't need to do it more than once a day, if that.

Might be a good chance if you are working with 5 or six people that one of them might have a laptop.

[donkathon]

I bet I could find someone.

[McGyver]

Ok .... this as ghetto as it gets (for "good" sound anyway)

iRiver T30 $149 = 1gig, $99 = 512mb
http://www.iriveramerica.com/images/prod/ultra/t30/T30-512/t30-angle.jpg

You will also need a shock mount
Azden SMH-1 $29
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/items/225809.jpg


Dr. Jack,

Please dish on how this setup works with the camera. Do you gather the sound and attempt to line it up in post or does this recorder allow it to line up with it. Or does digital recorder and digital video = perfectly same timing always?

Does the iRiver tie into the camera or is it separate? Do you simply plug the boom mic into the iRiver? Please "dish" because in all honesty this does sound almost too good to be true.

Thanks,

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

Yeah you just run to the iriver. You just need an XLR to mini plug adaptor and make sure your mic does not require phantom power. But yes you just use it like a DAT machine or MiniDisk or the old Nauga analog decksa and sync it in post.

However, it doesn't really have an advantage to recording direct to camera other than you could have an indpendently mobile person dedicated to sound. The sampling rate that the camera records at is slightly higher. So if you have a camera with a mic input then that would be better.

The above is for folks with cameras with no mic input or for people who want to record sound the "real movie way" i.e. on a seperate sytem than the video.

[McGyver]

Yeah you just run to the iriver. You just need an XLR to mini plug adaptor and make sure your mic does not require phantom power. But yes you just use it like a DAT machine or MiniDisk or the old Nauga analog decksa and sync it in post.

However, it doesn't really have an advantage to recording direct to camera other than you could have an indpendently mobile person dedicated to sound. The sampling rate that the camera records at is slightly higher. So if you have a camera with a mic input then that would be better.

The above is for folks with cameras with no mic input or for people who want to record sound the "real movie way" i.e. on a seperate sytem than the video.

Ah, so if you have line-in capability then this is not needed, just a good snake cord and this becomes superfluous. I am looking for a low budget setup and in all honesty I think that I am torn between which camera (SD / HD, ugh), let alone getting into the mic/light/ect arguments. Ugh. Alot to learn. Anyways, thanks for input but I doubt I would need a separate recorder seeing as how any/all cameras I would buy would have the mic inputs and I would get a snake setup with the boom pole and shock mount.

Thanks again,